Could this be communism? - Opinions.

[IHP]

Ok, in my county we are going through a very serious drought, and many farmers are going extremely poor. Sheep were selling for 20c each and so forth. Its a bad situation.

Lately water, feed and 'drought relief' fro the government has developed. When soemone has a lot of water, he has been sharing it with his neighbours. when he has little extra stock or feed, he has been sharing it with the community, allowing all, within their little community, to survive throguh a common ownership of necessities.

My question to you is: do you think that this could be classed as pseudo- communist community?

--IHP

[stalinorgel]

What is your country?

[BOZG]

IHP is Australian if I'm not mistaken.

I don't think it is so much pseudo communist than socialist but you could compare it to both. It should give us some faith in humanity.

[redstar2000]

I think the idea of "mutual aid" in times of trouble is something close to instinctive in the human species; we have to LEARN to be ruthless, selfish bastards.

Yes, I would say what's happening there contains at least one of the seeds of communism...to each according to his need.

[RGacky3]

I think its more a nice guy sharing. Unless its common owner ship.

[IHP]

I'm Australian. I live in the city so this doesn't affect me. This is about small farming communities in the outback.

The reason I posted this was because it looks more than a 'nice-guy sharing' type of situation. All the people in the communities share their excesses with everyone. Not just one man giving away his water, but everybody basically sharing all their necessities. It is interesting to think about.

--IHP

[Sol]

I'm with Gacky on this one; more of a generosity thing. On the other hand, it is damn cool that people are actually helping one another in the market rather than trying to destroy one another.

As for being a pseudo-commie society.... I think that's a stretch. Now, if the farmers were working together on each others flocks, had a "communal" transportation system, maybe an organization that represented them in the market as a whole, that'd be more like it.

[canikickit]

How can it be communism?
Where is the dictator?
Where is the cult of personality?
Where are the gulags located?
How many people have been slaughtered?
How many farmers have sacrificed their lives for the good of the state?

But seriously, I think that is a valid point It depends on your definition of communism. etc., etc., etc. How pseudo- do you mean exactly.

I would say yes, it goes beyond generosity or benevolence. Let us not forget the etymology of the word communism, it comes from common. They are helping each other out for the common good.

Anyway, it's not exactly a debate, more a matter of opinion, but it is very interesting to learn and interesting to think about.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Cheesetastic!

[Exploited Class]

I don't know how far outside the definetion of communism it is, but one thing is for sure it isn't any form of capitalism.

If it were, the farmer with a little bit of water would sell his excess to his neighbors at a marked up price, but not sell them enough for them to save their farms, so he/she could overtake those farms at a greatly reduced price. Of course then that would get into monopoly.....

I would say it skirts what communism is as far as going for the common good, but since there isn't a central ownership just a sharing of commerce I am not sure.

[IHP]

"How pseudo- do you mean exactly."

By "pseudo" i mean that it contains apparently communist things, but is not actually communism. A common good, but without the commerce and so on.

And you're right, this is not really a debate. feel free to argue of course, but i was just interested in what other people thought.

--IHP

[Felicia]

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 5:18 am on Nov. 20, 2002
Ok, in my county we are going through a very serious drought, and many farmers are going extremely poor. Sheep were selling for 20c each and so forth. Its a bad situation.

Lately water, feed and 'drought relief' fro the government has developed. When soemone has a lot of water, he has been sharing it with his neighbours. when he has little extra stock or feed, he has been sharing it with the community, allowing all, within their little community, to survive throguh a common ownership of necessities.

My question to you is: do you think that this could be classed as pseudo- communist community?

--IHP

We've been doing that here in Canada. We've had an enormous draught in the mid-west and farmers in Nova Scotia (where I'm from) were sending out all surplus hay that they didn't need, to feed the farm animals out west. They are still going to have to have a lot of animals destroyed because there isn't enough food for the animals through the winter, they're even trying to give away horses but no one will take them because they can't feed them either. It's sad. But stuff like this happens. Especially when those goddamned fuckers in the US places an embargo on our P.E.I. potatoes and practically crippled our potato economy, well what was left of it anyway :angry: because of a so-called potato bug threat, or was it potato rot? I don't know, but the US could've handled the situation a lot fairer instead of fucking us over.

[Iepilei]

it's not socialism perse, just a string of social programs.

much like in the United States - with "the New Deal" that heavily taxed the wealthy, opened government created jobs for unemployed citizens and constructed government housing. The US has never been socialist, but this was probably the closest we were.

[Jaha]

From each according to his ability to each according to his needs!

IHP, it fits my workable definition of communism. economically at least. it is sad that when the drought ends they will stop sharing, i assume.

[MJM]

I'd say it's more of a humanitarian thing, suffering animals etc.
I imagine the idea of profit from the farms production is no longer applicable as the govt. will be subsidising the farmers and aid will be forth coming.(?)
So really they're operating outside of capitalism. It's not really an economic issue but more a community support one. Also there will be economic incentives for the ones with water to share I would say.

[IHP]

"as the govt. will be subsidising the farmers and aid will be forth coming.(?)"

Well, hmmm. The State and Federal governments are just palming it off to each other. So nothing really is happening. I feel sorry for the buggers, the launched this campign to help them out. A day after it was launched the Bali Bombings took place so it was totally stricken from the news.

And yes, this isn't a matter of a 'good-year or bad-year' this has become survival.

--IHP

[RGacky3]

I suppose you could call it socialist, I hope i lasts. I like the Idea of communes, small socialist communes.

[Kehoe]

Communism exists in books and the deep recesses of ones mind,it can be spoke of and heard but will never manifest itself as anything more than an abstract idea that is totally inconceivable as an enacted social system ... an utter impossibility!Socialism is the highest stage of evolution within the human community that can ever be achieved ... and based on past failings due to tyrants manipulating the socialist platform as a means to gain and hold personal power socialism itself has suffered immense setbacks that we and future generations now must work with renewed dedication in an effort to refine and mend. - Karo

[ratm545]

i think its socialist. and i think that this is a very good step towards socialism. more and more popping up. nothing but steps forwards

[IHP]

Kehoe, ease up for crying out loud. If you want to yell that kind of thing out, go into the Soc. Vs. Cap. forum. This was a question about a community, not 'could this become a country wide revolution, starting a domino like situation by taking over the world in the most successful campaing ever!' Calm down. Do you have opinion regarding the situation within the farming communities?

--IHP

[MJM]

If the farmers are not getting aid from the govt. now, and will not get in the future, then it could be seen as some form of communism/co-operativism.

This comment here:

"Lately water, feed and 'drought relief' fro the government has developed. "

led me to believe that the govt. is subsidising the farmers to some degree.

[IHP]

note the quoatation marks. it is supposed drought relief, a small amount of money is slowly being given. thats why i wrote 'drought relief' because they cannot agree on who is going to help.

--IHP

[peaccenicked]

It is socialistic in the sense that intoduces notions of sharing but it has not the goals of socialism which also include planning and ending the alienating culture that is a bedrock of .capital