Non-European Historical Materialism

[JazzRemington]

I understand and accept the criticism that historical materialism is limited to Europe and America. So, with that in mind, I would like to know if anyone knows of any works that explores material development in other non-European and American countries?

I am especially interested in countries like Japan, that had a feudalist period. Mainly, I'd like to see if historical materialism still holds in other countries around the world. I have a limited knowledge of Asian development of capitalism (mainly that the government took land from farmers and used it to develop industry) but would like to know more.

[Janus]

One option is to look for perhaps translations of Chinese works that apply the historical materialist method to Chinese history.

[ComradeRed]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 24, 2007 05:18 pm
How the fuck is historical materialism "limited to Europe and America"?!?
Good question, a great deal of the criticisms that take this form arise out of ignorance either of historical materialism or "non-European" societies and their development.

Perhaps some of the "critics" could "enlighten" us with some concrete examples?

[Jude]

In Salman Rushdie's "Midnight's Children", several references are made to this, in the form of history 'beginning' with the introduction of the West. When I have a copy of the book in hand, I will post some passages.

[JazzRemington]

Well, I mean that we've all read historical materialistic accounts of the development of Europe and America, but not of Asia or Africa. This is especially interesting because Japan had a feudalist period and in Europe at least capitalism developed out of feudalism.

Perhaps my opening statement was a little too crass, but I mean to say that only that I've only seen historical materialism applied to Europe and the Americas, which leads to teh criticism that it is mainly centered around those respective countries.

[ComradeRed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 08:14 pm
Well, I mean that we've all read historical materialistic accounts of the development of Europe and America, but not of Asia or Africa.
O rly? (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/a/s.htm#asiatic-mode-production)


This is especially interesting because Japan had a feudalist period and in Europe at least capitalism developed out of feudalism. As predicted by Historical Materialism&#33; <_<

If I had more time, I&#39;d explore the applications of Historical Materialism to Japanese history from about 1865 to the present, but alas&#33; I haven&#39;t the luxury of time&#33; :(

[grove street]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 01:35 am
In Salman Rushdie&#39;s "Midnight&#39;s Children", several references are made to this, in the form of history &#39;beginning&#39; with the introduction of the West. When I have a copy of the book in hand, I will post some passages.
How is Rushdie these days?

Still in hiding I guess, but he has released a new book about the Mughal empire in India.

Considering that the Mughals were Muslims it will be interesting what he says.

In case anyone doesn&#39;t know the Mughals were a brutal tribe that desendant from the Mongols, they sacked every Middle Eastern city to the ground and commited mass genocide through-out the Islamic world. They were originaly pagans (polytheists), but converted to Islam through contact with the Islamic world (the same one that they sacked and committed genocide against) and persuasion by their Arab Muslim slaves. They settled in India, where they had one last massive sacking, and genocide. Once India was under their control their days of pillaging and genocide were over and they great an amazing Empire and civilization that ruled India until British conquest.

The Mughals are most famous for the Taj Mahal.

[Hiero]

This is especially interesting because Japan had a feudalist period and in Europe at least capitalism developed out of feudalism.

Japanan went through a similar transition. The Meiji era began with the overthrow of the feudal class by the new bourgeois class.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by grove street+April 25, 2007 02:01 pm--> (grove street &#064; April 25, 2007 02:01 pm)
[email protected] 25, 2007 01:35 am
In Salman Rushdie&#39;s "Midnight&#39;s Children", several references are made to this, in the form of history &#39;beginning&#39; with the introduction of the West. When I have a copy of the book in hand, I will post some passages.
How is Rushdie these days?

Still in hiding I guess, but he has released a new book about the Mughal empire in India.

Considering that the Mughals were Muslims it will be interesting what he says.

[/b]

In case anyone doesn&#39;t know the Mughals were a brutal tribe that desendant from the Mongols, they sacked every Middle Eastern city to the ground and commited mass genocide through-out the Islamic world. They were originaly pagans (polytheists), but converted to Islam through contact with the Islamic world (the same one that they sacked and committed genocide against) and persuasion by their Arab Muslim slaves. . Once India was under their control their days of pillaging and genocide were over and they great an amazing Empire and civilization that ruled India until British conquest.



I don&#39;t know from where you learned this History because you are wrong in many occasions.Mughals were not a brutal tribe descended from Mongols. They had their Matriachal line from Timurid dynasty who in turn had been descended from Mongols. By that time the section of Mongols who got control over the Islamic world had already been converted.


They settled in India, where they had one last massive sacking, and genocide. Once India was under their control their days of pillaging and genocide were over and they great an amazing Empire and civilization that ruled India until British conquest.

In reality their conquest of India was the only Muslim conquest which had very less bloodshed than all other previous conquests by Ghazinavid empire and Ghorid dynasty.

Under Akbar the third Mughal Badshaah India had its third Golden Age(the first being under Buddhist rule of Ashoka and second under Hindu Guptas) which lasted for 2 centuries after him until the reign of Aurangazeb.The Mughals were so tolerant than other rulers such that the Jizya tax was non existant all the temples destroyed by previous rulers rebulit and the along with Hinduism Sufi Islam which has been persecuted in Sunni Arabia and Shia Persia and the Zorastarianism also flourished in India.


The Mughals are most famous for the Taj Mahal.

They are also famous for their tolerance and good treatment of Hindus and other religions(except Aurangazeb). In the first war of Indian Independence against the English East India company the rebels majority of whom were Hindus sought to bring back Mughal Empire back.


How the fuck is historical materialism "limited to Europe and America"?&#33;?

Maybe because Marx lived in Europe and had more information about Europe and America and his access to information about Asia was very much limited. If he had access to more Information about Asia he could have done more.

But he was right in one sense.Colonialism and Capitalism had more advantage and superiority over the Asian system at that time. So there is no need for a distinct study of Asian developement from Asian POV.