An honest perspective - simple honesty

[Kehoe]

Strange how Marxists claim to be idealists when Marx himself advocated the mechanism of materialism over Hegels concept of idealism as being the driving force of social conditions.However,in view of Marxs theory of materialism it is evident that the comfort of materialism fuels idealism.I considered how that the greatest among idealists were themselves the product of materialistic security,having sprung up from among the middle-upper and wealthy classes of society.Siddhartha Gautama(the Buddha)was a prince as was Mahavira(founder of Jainism),Muhammed(Islam)was a wealthy merchant,Mohandas K Gandhi,Ernesto"Che"Guevara,etc,all emerged from social backgrounds which afforded them the education and leisure in which to forge their outlook on life.The poor and ignorant that throughout history have acted as catalysts for change were nothing more than revolutionaries driven by the sole desire to overthrow corrupt governments without possessing a prearranged ideology by which to reorganize society.Fidel Castro,among others,have been viewed as such revolutionaries motivated by indignation towards a harsh and repressive regime such as that of U.S. backed dictator Batista;however,often is the case that the butcher of tyrants becomes himself a tyrant.Man attempts to rationalize the irrational,to give order to an otherwise chaotic world which in reality is only as chaotic as the human mind itself.Man,possessing a somewhat analytical mind strives to classify and categorize his surroundings which inevitably runs afoul by putting whites with whites,blacks with blacks,etc.Why did we choose to become members of this Che community?To listen or to be heard?To adapt or attempt to convert others to our way of thinking?Do we post in an effort to gain acceptance or merely for the sake of personal recognition?Were I to speak for the sole purpose of patronizing the majority then I dishonor myself and others.When we as socialists create factions among ourselves how can we rightly claim to be better than the worst of bigots?I have often felt repulsed that I myself employ the socialist term so as to disassociate myself from the rest of humanity ... damn it to hell I am nothing more than a man!Were I to become merely a reflection of others then I see no cause for my own existence.Our redemption doesnt lie in acquiring new traits but in disposing of those we have thus far gathered.I have as a companion a small chihuahua pup and when I observe his natural affection and simplicity I realize just how fucked up we humans truly are.Children in their innocent simplicity are closest to this natural state,they run and play and freely embrace one another,black,white,red,brown,and yellow they see only love and togetherness ... until they too fall victim to the prejudice of this shit for brains society.Comrades,we should consign to flames the philosophical writings of men and gather about the feet of toddlers in order to be taught the fundamentals of a true humanity. - Karo

[Palmares]

Seek virtue in wisdom. I do know knowledge complicates, as a simple life would be more 'meaningful'. Perhaps it can be said we often think too much, as thinking (a damn lot of it) usually hinders action.

The world is stupid, but some individual minds are not. Use it how you may.

I am sorry for not directly answering your question.

[redjordi]

sorry kehoe,

what you said makes no sense at all.

First of all you mix your concepts of idealism and materialism. In everyday speech idealism means having great ideals and materialism caring only for material things. In philosophy though, materialism means the believe that the material world is primary and the world of ideas derives from it, and idealism is the believe that the world of ideas is primary and the material world is a reflection of it.

From a philosophycal point of view you are idealist, since you say that the world is only as confussed as the human mind.

This is obviously not a Marxist way of thinking. The world is confussed? yes, to a point. But it can be understood if you look a bit deeper. It is basically divided in social classes with opposing interests. The position one individual occupies in this social division largely determines the way he thinks and how is it going to develop. Men (and women) are free, yes, but they operate in a framework which is not determined by themselves but imposed onto them. If you do not understand the rules that govern this society, then it will seem very confussing.

Human beings are marvelous creatures, capable of the most profound feelings and expressions (unlike chihuahas), once they are freed from the drudgery of waged slavery they will be able to develop to the full their unlimited potential. This is the only struggle that is worth living for.

comradely,

redjordi
http://www.marxist.com

[Kehoe]

Comrade redjordi ... I appreciate that you have found it necessary to acknowledge me as an idealist for in reality Marx himself was an idealist although many would argue this point;however,Marx himself was afforded the leisure to study and contemplate by means of capital received from Engels who had inherited a factory from his father and thus Marx being freed from the responsibility to earn a liviihood was able to pursue philosophical studies from which he formulated his own ideology.An idealist is someone persuaded by the notion that there must be a better way.Che said,"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine",this statement is a sentiment brought about by idealism.Of course humans are highly complex beings possessing profound feelings,and these profound feelings bear witness to idealism.Marxs ideology expresses the conception of a more just society,again ... idealism.In the original post I merely attempted to point out that it is those individuals with proper means of material support who envision and express through written word as well as personal action the concepts of social change,and in this I feel that there was no abandonment of Marxs theory.As for the mention of my little friend(chihuahua pup)and children ... by this I meant to express that the closer we come to this natural state the clearer our objectives become.It has been said that,"Before kingdoms can change,men must change"... the world arises and fades within the mind itself and we must attempt to investigate and correct our way of thinking,to remove the sediments that have gathered over the years and with this the fog of our confusion will likewise be lifted. - Karo

[Kehoe]

Were a person to truly study Marx and lay hold to what I feel was the crux of his social outlook one would easily see that in reality it hardly differed at all from the teachings of others such as the Bibical figure Jesus,the Buddha,Gandhi,etc,and this simple outlook and teaching is that we should strive to make our life and the lives of others as care-free as possible."Lay not up for yourselves treasure on earth where moth and rust corrupts and where thiefs break through and steal ... for where your treasure is there will your heart be also,Blessed are those who hunger that another may be filled".One must abandon materialism and live for the sake of the community rather than for selfish gain.Marx spoke concerning the passion of greed and that money is the one jealous God,he also states how that it should be made possible for a man to do one thing today and another tomorrow,to hunt in the morning,fish in the afternoon,etc, ... to enjoy a care-free life inasmuch as possible.Those that cry loudest among the people are not the poor who have so little but those possessing the most and wishing to possess more.A man should work to live,not live to work and one mans food should not depend on another mans labor.There is no justice in a large group of people working for the wealth of one single man who himself hasnt strained one drop of sweat,and whose children flaunt costly possessions before the eyes of the children of those whose labor secured it.Why should a man who pushes a pencil be paid more than he who pushes a shovel?Men have been protesting against such injustices throughout history and it falls on deaf ears and why then should it be any different at present?and for us to say that it will all change in future generations is a bare-faced lie and in this we are no better than the religionists who promote the idea of an eternal paradise.We can come together via the net and pontificate on social issues that none are willing to act upon and what is it worth ... absolutely nothing!We come together in order to feel that we truly belong to something much bigger than ourselves,that we re the genesis of social change,when in reality this is nothing more than a social club where if one should speak in favor of Comrade Stalin theyre ostrracized ... and theres not a person here that can truthfully say that had Che become the head of a socialist state he would not himself have run it according to Stalinist doctrine.While I do admire Che for his commitment unto death for his beliefs,I refuse to deny that Che was cold and ruthless,he,like Stalin or any other man was not one-diamensional and its time people stop treating him like he was a religious icon.I hate the use of profanity but have made use of it on various occasions when I felt that it would add emphasis within the context of what I was attempting to state,still,although Im against such as mere shock value I realize that this is the cause for my own use as well ... to shock so as to get the point across.In another thread someone was enquiring about the meaning of life and that life is meaningless ... in that one golden moment when perpetual sleep arrives it all comes to nought,but while there is life we partake of it and because of it we are allowed to experience all that life encompasses,the strong emotions,love,hate,anger,remorse,fear,hope,we know the enrapturement of being in the embrace of the one we love,we forge relationships,etc, ... and if we close our eyes on that dark day with the knowledge that we lived in a manner so as not to hurt and manipulate others ... then it was indeed a wonderful privilege.