Originally posted by RedDali+April 29, 2007 12:00 am--> (RedDali @ April 29, 2007 12:00 am)
Originally posted by Cheung
[email protected] 28, 2007 03:24 pm
[email protected] 28, 2007 05:06 am
How many of you guys are aware of the Nandigram issue? Please read the link which I have provided below.
India: Nandigram the brutal massacre of peasants at the hands of the Left front government (http://www.marxist.com/india-nandigram-massacre-peasants060407-2.htm)
What political system should be installed ? Easy............Maoism. Marxism would totally cripple the booming Indian market economy and reduce living standards to below tolerable. In Maoism, and contary to Marxism, capital is embraced, hence, China's booming economy.
Maoism has nothing to do with Chinas booming economy and also the Maoists in India are against globalization and other neo liberal policies, that doesnt mean that I am for globalization.
Personally, I think the IMT is being far too kind in taking a line that the CPI and CPI(M) are being led by social democrats: Trotsky would have called them fascists.
What the "communist" government is doing is no different than Prescott Bush's role in the building of the Auschwitz death camp. (He owned a steel manufacturing company and made a fortune building the raw materials that were used in Auschwitz's construction...) Working with Salim is the moral equivalent to working with Nazi-era Volkswagen, to use one of many examples of German corporations implicated in Nazi crimes against humanity: The Suharto government's massacres of communists, ethnic minorities, and religious minorities are exponentially worse than anything the Soviets did in Afghanistan and rival the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
I would suggest that you read Fascism: What It Is and How to Fight It. I would hate to be accused of nitpicking; ignoring what you completely wrote while going off the intended subject of this thread, but I think your statement is fundamentally incorrect. In the introduction of this work, George Lavan Weissman sums up what I am about to tell you.
George Lavan Weissman wrote:
The Communist movement was still on its ultra-left binge (the so-called Third Period) when the Nazi movement began to snowball. To the Stalinists, every capitalist party was automatically "fascist". Even more catastrophic than this disorienting of the workers was Stalin's famous dictum that, rather than being opposites, fascism and social democracy were "twins". The socialists were thereupon dubbed "social fascists" and regarded as the main enemy. Of course, there could be no united front with social-fascist organizations, and those who, like Trotsky, urged such united fronts, were also labeled social fascists and treated accordingly.
In other words, I think you should suggest otherwise, and take the burden of such an accusation off of the back of Trotsky.
But to get on the topic of India, I think an endorsement of the Naxallites would be disastrous for the workers. In February, the Naxalites blew up a truck carrying striking workers back from a rally, while also killing more than 50 people. They usher from a semi-literate peasantry that is struggling to maintain their social relations amidst an attempt by the bourgeoisie to introduce industrialization to the forested area. They have targeted power stations, steel mills; attacked mines, blown up electricity pylons, and have torched cars. It is clear that their objective is to preserve their class; the peasantry that is facing displacement and forceful eviction through the expansion of capitalist production into their tribal areas. I don't think we should recognize this as some sort of revolutionary movement, in that it wants to preserve the archaic and destitute past.
The class composition of India is mostly that of peasants, agricultural laborers, and other petty artisans; with the urban working class composing of only 21% of the entire population. There is clear proof of erosion of workers real earnings, which in a decade has fallen drastically to less than half, so we can expect the class divide to increase in a few years if this trend continues. But still, we have seen a weakening of working class organizations, and a decline in class action, such as strikes, walk-outs, and other forms of class struggle. I do not know the situation as well as I should, but I will look this subject up.[/b]
First of all I would give a big thumbs up for you response to Cheung Mo.
But you are wrong like every one in your opinion about India.
In February, the Naxalites blew up a truck carrying striking workers back from a rally, while also killing more than 50 people.
Are you talking about this one ? (http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=62028)
Well that is the way usually Naxalites operate. Through terrorising those who don't agree with their views. That problem is precisely because of their religious commitement to Maoism. Their guerilla war against the Indian states is not a tactic they adopted because it is a material necessity but because Chairman Mao did it in China.
They have targeted power stations, steel mills; attacked mines, blown up electricity pylons, and have torched cars.
Obviously they themselves would do it when they gain the power. They see Indian government as an enemy state. So sabotage anything that would damage their "enemies".
the peasantry that is facing displacement and forceful eviction through the expansion of capitalist production into their tribal areas. I don't think we should recognize this as some sort of revolutionary movement, in that it wants to preserve the archaic and destitute past.
Really sorry to tell this but your analysis is totally bullshit. Naxalite support base is not the land owing peasant base which is mostly associated with Maosits but mostly of the most backward sections of the whole society who own nothing except their lives. They are also arguably the most oppressed in the entire world. I mostly criticise Naxalites for their wrong tactics and organisation which is very much a fact but your criticism of their class compostion is absolute ridiculous. Criticising Naxalites for their support base is like criticising people like Toussaint loverture and Emiliano Zapata for fighting against the real oppression.
The class composition of India is mostly that of peasants, agricultural laborers, and other petty artisans; with the urban working class composing of only 21% of the entire population. There is clear proof of erosion of workers real earnings, which in a decade has fallen drastically to less than half, so we can expect the class divide to increase in a few years if this trend continues. But still, we have seen a weakening of working class organizations, and a decline in class action, such as strikes, walk-outs, and other forms of class struggle. I do not know the situation as well as I should, but I will look this subject up.
This is where every body gets wrong. There is a proverb in Tamil about the Indian farmers that if a Farmer started making ledgure books then nothing would exist for even his own grinder. This shows how agriculture is seen by the illiterate farmers. Indian farmers through out the various historical phases of India never saw their occupation as profession but as a service to the Humanity. That is the reason why India from the Indus Valley civilisation to the current Industrial age supported more people than the entire world of those times. That is why Agri-business never took a boom in India and is still avoided by Capitalist as extracting profit from it would be very hard(especially in India) and is not worth the investment.
Sucide story 1 (http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/nov/16farmer.htm)
Suicide story 2 (http://news.google.co.in/news/url?sa=t&ct=in/3-0&fp=46342a0fe0a32739&ei=tM00Rq_0MZbsqgOpy7z5BQ&url=http%3A//www.newkerala.com/news.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D22928&cid=1115800471)
Suicide Story 3 (http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=405964)
These links tell the story of farmers committing suicide despite the enormous income from the export of agricultural produce in India. This clearly tells that the Indian farmers are the one who is the most brutally raped by the Capitalist system more than the workers. This incident has been a very recent phenomenon which I think has been a repetition for almost ten years ever since the Narasimha Rao government started with the Neo Liberal "reforms" which was followed by all the governments ever since.
But despite this farmers still not yet started putting profit before everything. That is the reason why millions of Indian working class poor get to eat meal at least once a day. So taking out Indian farmers and their welfare just because they don't suit to our view of progress would be a disastrous mistake and would be the most mechanical application of Marxism which Marx himself strongly disagree. Forget about all the benefits of Industrialisation if there are no farmers there can be no workers to enjoy its great benefits.