the future - the big question....

[Jaha]

this topic may have come up a million times already and i bet it will come up a million more. but i thought i would ask.

i thought of this when i was discussing political theory with my conservative friend. he hasnt convinced me yet, nor have i convinced him yet. but, we settled on a conclusion. futility. does it matter whether the world is communist, capitalist or facist if it all ends with death? what does it matter to me if when i die none of it will impact me?

well, i started this thread with the intent of finding out all of your views on the future. does it matter cause god is watching? does it not matter even if god is watching? is there no god at all?

what does it matter? what if it is all futile?

[mentalbunny]

Hmmm, very interesting. I guess it is all futile, but that's the nihilist in me speaking. We have to try to find the balance at which most people are happy. The human race is still evolving in some strang way, I just hope we find the solution before we destroy ourselves...

[Revolution Hero]

What is the future?
The future and communism are synonymous.
And this fact does matter a lot.
We people have to make this future to come at least a century closer.

[redstar2000]

We hairless monkeys like to fiddle with things...sticks, rockets, social systems. Spiders weave webs, cats chase and catch mice, monkeys like us fiddle with stuff. It's what we do.

Does it all MEAN anything ultimately? No. But what else does a monkey do if he/she quits fiddling with things? Sit and watch other monkeys fiddle with things? :-/

[bluerev002]

it does matter, we want our children to live a good life, so by gettin rid of capitalism, imperialism and other things that might enslave out children our children will live happier. were just here to pave the way for the futre generations, we are the sacrifice.

[bolshevik1917]

People in many countries can live untill they are 70 or 80, sometimes 90 or 100.

That is a long time on earth do sit and do nothing.

Think of all the things you have done in your life, all the places you have went and all the people you have met.

Think of all the things you will do in the future, the places you can go, the people you can meet.

Also think of the technology that humans have developed over the years, that allow us to do brilliant things.

But then think of the poverty in the world, and the people that cannot enjoy these things. People that cannot afford to travel and enjoy the years they have on earth.

There is something worth struggling for!

[bluerev002]

Quote: from Jaha on 9:48 pm on Nov. 8, 2002
this topic may have come up a million times already and i bet it will come up a million more. but i thought i would ask.

i thought of this when i was discussing political theory with my conservative friend. he hasnt convinced me yet, nor have i convinced him yet. but, we settled on a conclusion. futility. does it matter whether the world is communist, capitalist or facist if it all ends with death? what does it matter to me if when i die none of it will impact me?

well, i started this thread with the intent of finding out all of your views on the future. does it matter cause god is watching? does it not matter even if god is watching? is there no god at all?

what does it matter? what if it is all futile?



thats sort of like saying, why eat? im gonna crap it out anyways!

[Ian]

I read a cool quote once, "The meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you do not expect to sit", I think this is applicable to all kinda of situations, we do not want our descendants to sit on the barren, sun-baked ground that is capitalism, we want them to lean against a tree basking in the cool, comfortable meadow that is global communism (metaphorically of course)

[Kehoe]

It is our purpose to give meaning to an otherwise meaningless life.If your heart is enclosed within yourself then you truly live in a cold and isolated world.One must do what is right,not what is good in the sanctimonious sense of religious morality,but that which is in the natural order of human relations.This idea of earning a ticket to heaven is based on capitalistic greed,religious folk dont simply wish to own the earth,they wish to possess heaven as well,and as a socialist one must get past this bourgeois stumbling block in order to reach full maturity.If one gives in hope of receiving more in return what value then is his gift?I have come to the edge of the abyss and know that darkness and obscurity awaits me,why fret over the common destiny of all men?Look about you and consider the slightest injustice among men as being perpetrated against you.A wise man once said that "it is better to die in battle than to live as the defeated" ... still,dont confuse heroism with sheer lunacy.The vile has always found shortcuts to fame and riches but integrity takes a lifetime,therefore never strive to be better than others,but rather that all men may come to be placed on equal ground.As for philosophers,we have long known the diagnosis,what is needful is the cure which, like in most medicine,lies mainly in prevention.J.P. Sartres writings are an interesting read,but I suspect had Che spent his life in fond admiration of philosophers he would have become nothing more than a writer and lecturer in academic circles.Life consists of basic necessities ... food,drink,clothes and shelter to protect us from the elements,the proper disposal of waste products and bodily hygiene,of course theres the frivolous feeling that accompanies,or much rather fuels our sex-hunger borne by the primal instinct of survival,and its only after acquiring the necessities of life that man turns to the mystical realm of thought wherein he produces art,literature,and innovations in the way he views the world.As for the future ... it depends on how we collectively create it.

[Palmares]

Life? Nothing but choices... In a sense, we can choose whether to exist, or cease to. Many times I have thought, "Why should I do anything for people who do not understand nor care about me?"

Then I realise, the answer is simple, I care about them. Even if my personality, or perhaps my entire being is not suited to that of individual people, I will use all my abilities to help the masses. Why should you care about yourself? It is not you that makes you happy, only others. I am willing to give up such privileges, so that others may have it. I care not if you think differently, but if nothing is done, nothing will happen.

Think about everybody you care about, especially those that you love. Can you now say you would do nothing?

Life is about people...

[Jaha]

i think all of you have worthwhile posts, but they dont answer the big question.

sure it is great to help future generations and all, but does it mean anything?

say for instance, everybody dies. everybody. is that "bad"?

there would suddenly cease to be a meaning of life. "help future generations" doesnt apply when there are no more generations. the true meaning of life must transend all possibilities, not just the existing ones.

is there a meaning to life?

[Kehoe]

We re all going to die and theres nothing in hell going to change that ... concern yourself with life and you ll have less time to think about death.

(Edited by Kehoe at 11:18 am on Nov. 11, 2002)

[Palmares]

The way you look at life is somewhat fatalistic, and if you continue to think in such a vain, you may find yourself asking, "Is life worth living?". You may ask such a thing, but are you willing to see an alternative (that is, kill youself). It would be so simple, give up all the complexities of life, but for what? Nothing... So, in a sense, doing nothing in life, is death.

This is a valid question, however I would prefer not to continue it, for my answer I am content with. I suggest centralising your efforts somewhere else. Albeit, I thank you for the oppotunity to to give my view.

[bluerev002]

jaha, shoot yourself right now. what do you care right? your going to die anyways. why do you want to live another day? your still going to die. why do you want to do anything, you will die, weather it be today or tomorow. your still dead. so just do it, go on, kill yourself.

is it that easy? imagine if all the world just gave up, and didnt care. all of the ppl who do care will take this as an oportunity to tae what they want form the pessimist.

so go ahead...

[4d thought]

realizing life is meaningless is a step forward. it takes you to a fork in the road, on one side is obvious which would be to say "fuck it". it makes sense because after all when you die you won't care. you won't be watching your loved ones from a cloud in heaven. but soon you come to find out that this path didn't lead you anywhere so you could have continued you futile search for an ultimate "meaning" and still die a fruitless waste. on the other hand
if everybody dies and after they die they no longer give a shit about the happinings of earth then why can't the point of life be to live, and if thats the point and its a common
fate for all then why note be happy and try to make other peoples lives better. even if dying for a cause you make thens better then you still lived and died like everyone else. but what does an 18 year old american white boy know anyways?

[Jaha]

Quote: from bluerev002 on 6:24 am on Nov. 13, 2002
jaha, shoot yourself right now. what do you care right? your going to die anyways. why do you want to live another day? your still going to die. why do you want to do anything, you will die, weather it be today or tomorow. your still dead. so just do it, go on, kill yourself.

is it that easy? imagine if all the world just gave up, and didnt care. all of the ppl who do care will take this as an oportunity to tae what they want form the pessimist.

so go ahead...


bluerev, this is very supportive isnt it. well, i just want to say that i have gone over it in my head, "what if i just killed myself" but there must be some point to life.

maybe 4d thought is right. "why can't the point of life be to live" well, i suppose it could be. it just doesnt sound very motivating.

[bluerev002]

jaha, dont think, just live.... just live, u dont have to take time to think about this. "what is the point of life" who the hell knows, but i dont think i will stop to think.
i am not going to go to stop right in front of the mud and say, whats the point of this? all im going to do is get dirty,, but hell, itll be freaking fun.

so, stop triying to find a meanning of life and just hve fun. i mean, fun doesnt have a point to it does it? just do it, itll be fun.

[bluerev002]

oh and as for the last post, all i did was repeat what u said...all i did was agree, ans say yep your right. of course its a diffrent way of helping, i dont know what its called but it works, (some sort of psycology).

[Jaha]

reverse phychology?

and youre "just have fun" theory, it just sounds aimless, pointless, useless. but, it works for a lot of people.

[redstar2000]

"What if everybody dies?" I assume you mean, what if the human species became extinct?

If what we know about stellar evolution and planetary formation is at all valid, then there are (at least) MILLIONS of intelligent life forms in our universe...there'd be one less. The universe, not being sentient, would not notice.

The earth still has some 250-500 million years of usefulness left (after that it will be too hot)---plenty of time for one or several new intelligent species to evolve (we primates did it in 30 million years). The earth, not being sentient, will not notice.

Geologically speaking, you and I will be dead in a very short period of time...less than 100 years. The ground we walk on now and will lie in soon, not being sentient, will not notice.

Being sentient, we CARE ourselves...but nothing else does or should. How ever could it be otherwise?

[Jaha]

so..... .....redstar, are you saying that we only live because humans value life, and there really is no point?

[redstar2000]

Yes.

[Palmares]

You fools... the fundamentals of life require acceptance.

Fear can give a man respect, but fear does not make a good man.

Asking if there is a meaning to life or whether life is worth living is somewhat foolish. If there is an answer to such a question, it would be abstract, for the question itself is abstract. Why not try asking "What is time (or existence)?" A very much linked question. Perhaps both are fun to talk about, but both are generally unanswerable (in the sense that they are somewhat incomprehendable).

But if it had to be put simply, I guess life is about... life.
(Regards 4d Thought)

[bluerev002]

much agree, cthenthar. "dont think, just live" is it really that hard. am i a fool for saying that?

[buteo]

To directly answer the question to the best of my ability right now:

If EVERYBODY died tomorrow, would it be "bad"?

Depends on whose or what perception youre in...

I think that if we all died tomorrow the Earth would be a better place and less likely to suffer from our consumption needs and waste. So from an Earth perspective, the elimination of humans would be a good thing. It would be like killing a virus, essentially.... except for the few good souls who live off the land and do not need much to survive.

If you asked people who cared about money, they'd say that the end of the world was bad because they'd lose their life and their "hard-earned" money and wouldnt be able to spend it in this land of "freedom" or wherever they live.

If you asked someone who loved other human beings, the end of the human race might be a bad thing too because the Earth would be missing out on our laughing, singing, dancing, art, and language, culture, etc. that makes us really cool fucking animals. Our ability to love another, even strangers from all the way across the globe and maybe even plants and animals too.... Who says tree huggers are bad?

So bad or good depends on what your perspective is...

As an individual you can choose which view you want to take for yourself, because you give your life its own meaning.... why? because the mind is a powerful thing. We can make situations work for us or not... we have the power to manipulate our emotions and thoughts... and have the power to change what doesnt work for us.

Other people's influences also plays a huge part in this so Im not saying that its all on us to give life a good or bad meaning.... It's really about a community giving a life meaning... thats why certain cultures have long-time traditions that they keep from generation to generation? Why? because the old people pass the knowledge down and children keep it because it is what gives their life MEANING and DIRECTION.

The meaning of life is that which you and your people assign it. And your people is your circle of friends, family, and even enemies. It's when some people oppose other people's views of the meaning of life, that big conflict happens. My take on it is that the meaning of life should be something abstract and essentially GOOD, like Love... hmmm,, maybe if everyone shared this meaning we'd all be ok? But the fact right now is that people are blinded by treats, money, and an "easier life". bullshit.

Nowadays our lives are free to wander in pretty much any direction we want... sure we'll encounter obstacles but that will give life even more meaning, when it is overcome, or eventually overcome. Capitalism exists, yeah, but someday it wont, and we might not be here but our kids might.... the animals and plants around us will definitely be there.... maybe in different form but we must not forget that Life is a dynamic force that changes, mutates, evolves, and depends on a few criteria:

sunlight, water, rocks, and those primitive elements that started it all...

I believe that the people who think that life is meaningless have not seen enough of the world's beauty.... And sometimes we forget how beautiful and how much potential the world still has...including humans... Its when you start imagining the future as the great place it could be, or just appreciate the good things in life... AND THERES SO MANY ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY.

Oh and another thing I want to say is this:

It's damn easy to get depressed and frustrated when you are involved in the world of politics. Politics, in my opinion, is not a natural thing for humans, and the primal force that drives us all doesnt give a fuck about government. So if you feel that work today will be worthless one day, ITS TRUE, IT WILL BE, but we can make life's meaning BETTER for our kids and those who will follow in our footsteps.... its all for them... everything... for the generations to come..

They will stand on our shoulders. This is a fact. Might as well have them face the open canvas of a blue sky instead of a brick wall.

(Edited by buteo at 10:13 am on Nov. 22, 2002)