Leninism/marxist-leninism

[jaddaok]

Is leninism and marxist-leninism the same?
If not, whats the difference?

[Whitten]

Leninism and marxism-leninism are both names people use to refer to the theoretical additions to marxism made by Lenin. Lenin considered himself just "marxist".

People how call themselves "Marxist-Leninist" are more likely to support the policy of "Building Socialism in One Country" (which does not reject internationalism, but rather stated that the USSR's economy needed to be rapidly developed and industrialised in order to defend itself, before it could seriously begin spreading revolution throughout the world), which is associated with Stalin and Bukharin, while people who use just "Leninist" (or "Bolshevic-Leninist") are more likely to support Trotsky. Both groups adhere to different interpretations of Lenin's ideas.

And if this could turn into Stalin Vs Trotsky or Stalin Bashing debate number 388454534984 for at least a page that would be great ;)

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by jaddaok+April 19, 2007 09:30 pm--> (jaddaok @ April 19, 2007 09:30 pm)Is leninism and marxist-leninism the same?
[/b]
No. Marxism Leninism has nothing to do either with Marx or with Lenin. It is just a name used by the bureaucratic regime in USSR to justify its existence.


[email protected] 19, 2007 09:30 pm
If not, whats the difference?

Leninism is not a new theory,it is just Marxism applied in to practice. I have already said that ML is just a name to justify the existence of bureaucracy. The difference between Leninism and Stalinism is that the former is fully commited to International working class revolution and the latter is just to preserve the privileges of the parasitic bureaucratic caste in Soviet Union.

To do it Stalinism subordinated the workers of other countries to their own Ruling Class.

Stalin on Chinese revolution when KMT has started slaughtering CPC members. (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1927/05/09.htm)

Maoism a deviation of Stalinism took it further by calling for an alliance with National Bourgeoisie (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-4/mswv4_65.htm)

[Whitten]

Originally posted by g.ram+April 19, 2007 04:59 pm--> (g.ram @ April 19, 2007 04:59 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 09:30 pm
Is leninism and marxist-leninism the same?

No. Marxism Leninism has nothing to do either with Marx or with Lenin. It is just a name used by the bureaucratic regime in USSR to justify its existence.


[email protected] 19, 2007 09:30 pm
If not, whats the difference?

Leninism is not a new theory,it is just Marxism applied in to practice. I have already said that ML is just a name to justify the existence of bureaucracy. The difference between Leninism and Stalinism is that the former is fully commited to International working class revolution and the latter is just to preserve the privileges of the parasitic bureaucratic caste in Soviet Union.

To do it Stalinism subordinated the workers of other countries to their own Ruling Class.

Stalin on Chinese revolution when KMT has started slaughtering CPC members. (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1927/05/09.htm)

Maoism a deviation of Stalinism took it further by calling for an alliance with National Bourgeoisie (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-4/mswv4_65.htm) [/b]
I'm pretty sure he wanted facts not slander.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 10:40 pm
I'm pretty sure he wanted facts not slander.
Yes thats what I have given. I have backed up my arguments with appropriate sources. If you want to counter mine follow your own advice counter it with facts not by slandering my argument.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by g.ram+April 19, 2007 05:13 pm--> (g.ram @ April 19, 2007 05:13 pm)
[email protected] 19, 2007 10:40 pm
I'm pretty sure he wanted facts not slander.
Yes thats what I have given. I have backed up my arguments with appropriate sources. If you want to counter mine follow your own advice counter it with facts not by slandering my argument. [/b]

Marxism Leninism has nothing to do either with Marx or with Lenin. It is just a name used by the bureaucratic regime in USSR to justify its existence.

You provide no source to justify this claim. Marxism-Leninism is an interpretation of Marx and Lenin's theories, one held by many people outside of the "Bureaucratic regime in the USSR", on held by some opponents of the USSR, and one held by many people today.


Leninism is not a new theory,it is just Marxism applied in to practice. I have already said that ML is just a name to justify the existence of bureaucracy. The difference between Leninism and Stalinism is that the former is fully commited to International working class revolution and the latter is just to preserve the privileges of the parasitic bureaucratic caste in Soviet Union.

You provide no sources that Marxist_Leninist though exists soley to benefit a burraucratic regime in the USSR, a statement which is rather stupid considering the majoirty of Marxist-Leninists came to oppose the USSR's line from at least the 50's onwards. You also provide no source to justify your claim that it is anti-internationalist.

Infact your sources seem rather irrelivent to the points you were making.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 04:00 pm
Is leninism and marxist-leninism the same?
If not, whats the difference?
At the risk of being strung up by my hammer & sickle I'll say "yes".

Leninism and Marxism-Leninism are two ways of saying the same thing - the Marxist method of philosophy, organisation and economics expanded on by Vladimir Lenin who formulated the theory of Imperialism, the organisational principle of democratic centralism and countered reformist distortions of Marxism. But "Marxism-Leninism", as an ideological label, is generally believed to connate connection/support of the regime in the USSR post-Lenin, which many Communists disagree with.

Hope that helps in some way. Also, I'd recommend some basic writings by Marx and Lenin if you wish to examine the theoretical and organisational developments that Lenin introduced.

[Prairie Fire]

Nicely done whitten.

A sufficient explanation of Marxism-Leninism, and a good defence against overzealous trotskyist provocation.


And if this could turn into Stalin Vs Trotsky or Stalin Bashing debate number 388454534984 for at least a page that would be great

I too tire of the un-ending " Stalinism is an evil, totalitarian bureaucracy" bullshit. Unfortunately, without ultra-sectarian bile, this forum wouldn't be very interesting.

[Rawthentic]

Stalinism is an evil, totalitarian bureaucracy
Who says that? We all know that it formed the blueprint of what a healthy workers state should be?

I mean, fuck those liars who say that Stalin was a de-facto capitalist, or murdered workers who wanted their power back, or fought the petty-bourgeois kulaks because they were rural and he was part of the urban petty-bourgeoisie.

They have no hard evidence, they are all liars.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by Whitten+April 20, 2007 12:08 am--> (Whitten @ April 20, 2007 12:08 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 05:13 pm

[email protected] 19, 2007 10:40 pm
I'm pretty sure he wanted facts not slander.
Yes thats what I have given. I have backed up my arguments with appropriate sources. If you want to counter mine follow your own advice counter it with facts not by slandering my argument.

Marxism Leninism has nothing to do either with Marx or with Lenin. It is just a name used by the bureaucratic regime in USSR to justify its existence.

You provide no source to justify this claim. Marxism-Leninism is an interpretation of Marx and Lenin's theories, one held by many people outside of the "Bureaucratic regime in the USSR", on held by some opponents of the USSR, and one held by many people today.
[/b]

What source is needed ? Just look at the acts of Marxist-Leninists it speak thousand than sources. If I have provided anything then you would proclaim that I am a trotskyists and all I post would be shit without reading them.



You provide no sources that Marxist_Leninist though exists soley to benefit a burraucratic regime in the USSR,

Again look in to actions not Labels.



a statement which is rather stupid considering the majoirty of Marxist-Leninists came to oppose the USSR's line from at least the 50's onwards.

And some those "Marxist-Leninists" in turn supported US imperialism to oppose "Soviet Social Imperialism". And I see no difference between Soviet union before and after 50's.


You also provide no source to justify your claim that it is anti-internationalist.

Hitler Stalin Pact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbentrop-Molotov_pact)

Fate of Comintern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMINTERN#Last_World_Congress_and_Dissolution)

About Comintern 2 (http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/win/vol05a/no06/mirza.htm)

Yet another analysis which portrys betrayal for internationalism by dissolving Comintern by uncle Joe to satisfy his Imperialistic friends Churchill and Roosevelt. (http://www.anti-caste.org/workers_hammer/workers_hammer_index.html)


Infact your sources seem rather irrelivent to the points you were making.

They were very much relevant to the point I have been making. The Difference between Leninism(Marxism) and Marxism-Leninism(Stalinism).