Sexuality in the ghetto...

[R_P_A_S]

attractive girl walking down the street in a ghetto neighborhood is sure to get harassed. hear a bunch of sexist slurs and probably have a bunch of guys yell how big her behind is. By the time she gets to where she is going she was called over like dogs are called over and probably was reminded of how much men want to sleep with her...

attractive girl walking down the streets in the suburbs probably never hears a single slur or most likely no one harasses her, nor tries to call her over like she is a dog..



WHY???

why are people in the poorer communities more sexual and bulgar when it comes to this????

what do you think it has to do with??

[TC]

Eh, i live in Westminster and i get sexual (i wouldn't say sexist, being sexually aggressive rude and assholish and sexist are not the same thing) comments from guys on the street constantly, so i don't think its a phenomenon of only poor men in poor communities at all, i think you're mistaken in thinking that money has much to do with it.

You probably get much less of that in the suburbs not because they have more money (which they often don't) but because they don't have a ton of clubs, bars, pubs and liquer stores, and the demographics are more slanted towards older married couples rather than younger singles.

And really i think, your presumption that poor men are sexist assholes, but middle and upper-middle class men aren't, is based purely on classist stereotypes, which is really rather disturbing. Plenty of guys are assholes in every socio-economic class.

[R_P_A_S]

im not assuming shit... i gave you guys a scenario.. and what I do think that people in the ghetto tend to yell slurs at women more than lets say.. people in the suburbs? Im not saying one is better than the other. I want to understand why is like that. and open up some discussion on why it seems that people in the ghetto seem to be really concern with sex and anything affiliated with sex. as opposed of people growing up in more upper-middle class neighborhoods.

lots of my friends who are gang-members and live in the hoods of L.A. talk about sex a lot and just believe that "all girls are hoes" because obviously that what they see...
in the mean time most people that are upper-middle class rarely talk about that stuff.

im trying to see if people can help me out here. why this difference in attitude? Im not saying that rich people are fucking saints and respectful over people in the ghetto.

gee i always have to over explain myself!

[Rawthentic]

Rich people and capitalists are the perpetrators of sexist thinking, it is a mechanism of capitalist class domination as is racism.

Under capitalism we have been ingrained with the mentality that women are objects and are inferior.

I'm not so sure that I can explain so much as to why it is different in ghettos than in suburbs, even though I am from a "hood" as well (South-Side Milwaukee).

[KC]

Uh, I have no idea what you're talking about. I went to a suburban highschool and that kind of shit happens all the time. Go to college and all the upper class kids talk about "fucking *****es" and "getting laid" all the time. I have no idea where you got the notion that sexism in "the ghetto" is so much worse than elsewhere. If anything, the rich people I know are much more patriarchal than the poorer people I know.

[Dominick]

It strikes me as simply a matter of the difference between the city and the suburbs, the former of which has individuals living in close-quarters and busy streets that are the place where a lot of socialising occurs. Suburban children, on the other hand, express it in a different settings due to the configuration of suburbia. Moreover, simply because they do not refer to women as "ho's" does not mean sexism does not prevail; for, there are numerous terms and ways to convey sexism. Consider the millions of people that buy Playboy or go to strip clubs. One certainly cannot conclude it is solely the lower class participating in such degradation.

[Political_Chucky]

Yea, i'd also have to disagree with you RPAS, however I can understand where your coming from. People in gangs are obviously less distraught about whether or not they get in trouble with the cops, while a person in a surburbian area will still advance sexually to a female, they are more or less scared of consequences. But where live, one side of the street are all the crappy homes, where all the OG WSR live and the other side is more or less a more stereo-typical suburb. For the most part they are both quiet. Sexual harrassment can happen anywhere.

[R_P_A_S]

wow.. well i must be dreaming... because this is an everyday thing.. I saw this too with my own eyes when I was younger.

I'll be walking along with my girlfriend and her friends and we walked by an apartment complex where mainly latinos lived and they were always yelling stuff at the girls..

"pssss, psssss ey! ey! baby! you are fine"
"damn you are fine, come over here baby"

then we walked past like some random white people hanging out by their house or by their cars and they wouldn't say shit. or yell anything disrespectful..

******AGAIN. SINCE SOME OF YOU MIGHT BE HARD AT READING THIS.. I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT ALL LATINOS ARE SEXIST PIGS AND WHITES ARE 'MORE RESPECTFUL' IM GIVING YOU GUYS A EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING I EXPERIENCED.*******

my girl-friends here in L.A. that live in south central are constantly reminding me of how walking a mile to the store gets them constant harassment from people driving by or men standing on the corners.

you are telling me THAT THIS SAME PROBLEMS HAPPEN IN THE SUBURBS?? PLEASE.

im not trying to say one class is better or worst. Im trying to understand why when we grow up in the ghetto or in a more urban environment we tend to focus so much on sexuality and be explicit about it.

rap music... ugh? a country music? BIG DIFFERENCE.

[KC]

I'll be walking along with my girlfriend and her friends and we walked by an apartment complex where mainly latinos lived and they were always yelling stuff at the girls..

"pssss, psssss ey! ey! baby! you are fine"
"damn you are fine, come over here baby"

That's actually part of Mexican culture to openly compliment a woman on the street like that. If you went to Mexico you'd see that happen. At least this is what I've been told by people that I know that have went. Although I don't really see what's so sexist about telling a girl she's "fine".


******AGAIN. SINCE SOME OF YOU MIGHT BE HARD AT READING THIS.. I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT ALL LATINOS ARE SEXIST PIGS AND WHITES ARE 'MORE RESPECTFUL' IM GIVING YOU GUYS A EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING I EXPERIENCED.*******

Well, you're basing your assertion on race when you differentiate between Latinos and whites like that, so how aren't you implying that? You might not mean to, but you are. And of course you're being blatantly classist in saying stuff about how "sexist" the "ghetto" is.


you are telling me THAT THIS SAME PROBLEMS HAPPEN IN THE SUBURBS?? PLEASE.

Well, this doesn't happen in the suburbs because the demographic is largely married people and old people, as TC has correctly pointed out, and also because of the fact that people generally don't hang out in groups on their front yard. However, my whole point was that at social areas in the suburbs, and definitely at colleges, this stuff happens just as often.

[R_P_A_S]

hahaha fuck out of here man.. thats not part of mexican culture. to whistle and call a woman over like she is a fucking dog?

there's a fine line between complimenting a woman and harassing her. plain and simple.

do woman get shouted at and called over like animals at other places besides the ghetto SURE. but its clearly more likable to happen in the ghetto.. it happens mostly in parts of south central L.A. for example.. couple young girls walking around they have a big big chance of being harassed NOT COMPLIMENTED.. as opposed West Hollywood..

I feel a hell of a lot safer walking down the street with my girlfriends in West Hollywood as opposed of like Compton.

but the question is.. (and it has partially been answered) the question is why a class or group of people are more openly vocal about the sexuality than the other.

and if you dont fucking get it. its obvious you never hung out with different people. you guys think im making this shit up or something?
i see this, i hear about this and I have experienced it. I have friends both from the ghetto and from upper class places. and I've spent time in both areas to know what im talking about.

why can't we just try to discuss it instead of trying to make me seem like im stereo typing people? damn... :angry:

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Zampanò@April 19, 2007 06:43 am
Well, you're basing your assertion on race when you differentiate between Latinos and whites like that, so how aren't you implying that? You might not mean to, but you are. And of course you're being blatantly classist in saying stuff about how "sexist" the "ghetto" is
dawg.. ease the fuck up and try to open your mind and just discuss the question. don't get all fucking technical man. its just aggravating. we all here are pretty much leftist and for one.. you should know im not trying to put down no ones race and class. give me a fucking break.. damn

can i say rap music for a prime example? listen to the material. and compare it to country music, or some pop rock, or polka at that.

fuck! why can't we just discuss things instead of trying to make everyone seem like they are trying to be racist or some shit?

mawfakas are too sensitive.

sorry if im coming off too mad.. but im just fed up sometimes with how some people try to portrait me when Im trying to discuss ethnicity issue or even racial issues which this has now turn into..

fuck.. i dunno. close this thread.

[KC]

hahaha fuck out of here man.. thats not part of mexican culture. to whistle and call a woman over like she is a fucking dog?

there's a fine line between complimenting a woman and harassing her. plain and simple.

Calling a woman "fine" isn't harassing her or treating her like a dog. Plain and simple.


do woman get shouted at and called over like animals at other places besides the ghetto SURE. but its clearly more likable to happen in the ghetto.. it happens mostly in parts of south central L.A. for example.. couple young girls walking around they have a big big chance of being harassed NOT COMPLIMENTED.. as opposed West Hollywood..

I feel a hell of a lot safer walking down the street with my girlfriends in West Hollywood as opposed of like Compton.

You're basing this on class and race, and not demographic. You're a classist, racist idiot. Why don't you just leave the forum?


and if you dont fucking get it. its obvious you never hung out with different people. you guys think im making this shit up or something?
i see this, i hear about this and I have experienced it. I have friends both from the ghetto and from upper class places. and I've spent time in both areas to know what im talking about.

As do I, and I've seen just as much sexism perpetuated by both groups.


dawg..

I'm not your "dawg" and never will be.


ease the fuck up and try to open your mind and just discuss the question. don't get all fucking technical man.

I'm not "getting technical". I'm speaking the truth.


we all here are pretty much leftist and for one.. you should know im not trying to put down no ones race and class. give me a fucking break.. damn

You might not be trying to, but you are.


can i say rap music for a prime example? listen to the material. and compare it to country music, or some pop rock, or polka at that.

What does that have to do with black people vs. white people and poor people vs. rich people?


fuck! why can't we just discuss things instead of trying to make everyone seem like they are trying to be racist or some shit?

Don't you find it kind of unusual that it's pretty much only you that people here have a problem with on a regular basis because of your racist, sexist, classist attitude?


mawfakas are too sensitive.

Seriously, just shut up.

[The Grey Blur]

gee i always have to over explain myself!
Yeah it's a shame, it's due to the snide assholes who talk down to those less knowledgable than themselves.

I get where you're coming from, you get that here a lot as well. I've had the exact same experience with that vulgar sexual talk from guys towards female friends who clearly don't want to hear it and it does generally occur in working-class areas. Unfortunately, I don't really have a clear idea of what it's due to - class, the media, patriarchy? It could be any of those, a combination, or something totally different. Sorry I couldn't be of more use.

I agree with the poster who said sexism manifests in different forms. Perhaps amongst the working-class it is open whereas amongst the ruling or middle classes it is institional. I could be wrong.

[Pirate Utopian]

You always start topics on ghetto-related subjects R P A S, not that I have something against that but are you from, near or know alot of peeps in the ghetto?

anyway; severe poverty like those of the ghettoes can be stressfull so they get drunk and high, wich could lead to misbehaviour.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 19, 2007 07:59 pm

gee i always have to over explain myself!
Yeah it's a shame, it's due to the snide assholes who talk down to those less knowledgable than themselves.

I get where you're coming from, you get that here a lot as well. I've had the exact same experience with that vulgar sexual talk from guys towards female friends who clearly don't want to hear it and it does generally occur in working-class areas. Unfortunately, I don't really have a clear idea of what it's due to - class, the media, patriarchy? It could be any of those, a combination, or something totally different. Sorry I couldn't be of more use.

I agree with the poster who said sexism manifests in different forms. Perhaps amongst the working-class it is open whereas amongst the ruling or middle classes it is institional. I could be wrong.
thank you for discussing the issue at hand. I appreciate the input.

for the rest of you people who love to throw the word "racist" around like is going out of style. I have to openly discuss this matters and give examples and YES sometimes i have to single out certain races and classes. because its our fucking society that does that to us. and Im trying to compare the two, to lets say our way of thinking and understanding.

here i go again. over-explaining my self. from now on I dont give a flying fuck if one of you thinks im being racist or degrading people based on class. if that was the case I'd be kick out the damn forum and banned.

next time you want to come to L.A. hit me up so I can take you to this different neighborhoods so you can see the fucking difference. you live in a bubble and think that everyone is class conscious and all workers are saints or something. give me a break. fuck off

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 19, 2007 09:20 pm
You always start topics on ghetto-related subjects R P A S, not that I have something against that but are you from, near or know alot of peeps in the ghetto?

anyway; severe poverty like those of the ghettoes can be stressfull so they get drunk and high, wich could lead to misbehaviour.
i spend a lot of time with both classes. upper class and people in gangs, and in jail. many of my friends are in gangs or in jail.. as well as have rich parents and have everything paid for.

ever since I got into marxism and dialectic materialism I'm just trying to apply what i read to what i experience.

unfortunately there's always some fuck Troll who cries foul because something itches his ass or who knows what...

but yeah thats what Im trying to discuss.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 19, 2007 07:59 pm
I've had the exact same experience with that vulgar sexual talk from guys towards female friends who clearly don't want to hear it and it does generally occur in working-class areas. Unfortunately, I don't really have a clear idea of what it's due to - class, the media, patriarchy?
1. Middle class men are already above a lot of people in the "food chain"; working class men are only above their women. People with a lesser share of power tend to be more ruthless than those who are more secure about their position.

2. Education is a class mark; people in higher classes tend to publicly display evidence that they are not proletarians. Thence men of higher classes show their class by, among other things, behaving in a posh way, including regarding women.

3. Women of middle and upper classes tend to be more independent from men, since they have more economic autonomy. It is harder to kick your man out from your life when you cannot make the end of the wage meet the end of the month.

These are causes that come to my mind on a first thought.

Luís Henrique

[TC]

Originally posted by Dominick+--> (Dominick)It strikes me as simply a matter of the difference between the city and the suburbs, the former of which has individuals living in close-quarters and busy streets that are the place where a lot of socialising occurs.[/b]

Yah agreed.


Dominick
for, there are numerous terms and ways to convey sexism. Consider the millions of people that buy Playboy or go to strip clubs. One certainly cannot conclude it is solely the lower class participating in such degradation.

As far as i'm concerned theres nothing "sexist" about playboy or strip clubs. How does admiring a particular woman sexually degrade her when she's actively inviting it, in the case of playboy and strip clubs and unlike the case of a guy making rude comments to a girl on the street?

More significantly though, how does porn or strip clubs degrade other women who aren't porn stars or strippers, which would be required for it to be sexist. The fact is that it doesn't, jerking off to some porn star in playboy doesn't hurt, degrade, or otherwise undermine the status of women in general, anymore than masturbating to Brad Pitt in Fight Club hurts or degrades men in general.

What you're arguing for isn't feminism, its just anti-sex reaction that demeans women by equating women in general with particular individuals in the sex industry.

[TC]

and open up some discussion on why it seems that people in the ghetto seem to be really concern with sex and anything affiliated with sex. as opposed of people growing up in more upper-middle class neighborhoods.

It doesn't seem like that to me. I think upper middle class suburbs and poor suburbs are similar in this regard, and poor ghettos and upper middle class urban districts are similar.

Its an issue of population density, familial demographics and the amount of social activity involving groups of single men, not class.



in the mean time most people that are upper-middle class rarely talk about that stuff.


Thats just not true, upper middle class people talk about sex all the time and upper middle class men make sexual comments to random women all the time, especially if they're young and/or drunk.


wow.. well i must be dreaming... because this is an everyday thing.. I saw this too with my own eyes when I was younger.


But its an everyday thing in wealthy areas too...like i said, lol i get random sexual comments on a daily basis from guys in Westminster in London (which is the second most expensive district in the UK)...whereas i don't think i've *ever* had anyone say anything to me in north london suburbs which are much poorer and much more ethnically diverse. The difference is that there are fewer guys on the street, there aren't as many people who have just come out of night clubs or bars, etc.



my girl-friends here in L.A. that live in south central are constantly reminding me of how walking a mile to the store gets them constant harassment from people driving by or men standing on the corners.

you are telling me THAT THIS SAME PROBLEMS HAPPEN IN THE SUBURBS?? PLEASE.


No, not in the suburbs, but in the upper middle class urban areas especially where there are mixed commercial and residential buildings you get exactly the same stuff.

Not all suburbs are upper middle class and not all urban areas are lower class, so comparing poor urban areas to wealthy suburbs misinterprets the phenomenon as an issue of class rather than an issue of urban environments rather than suburban or rural ones.

In the suburbs there just aren't a lot of young guys hanging out outside, you dont see men standing on the street corners in the suburbs at all the way you do in cities so the opportunity isn't there.



and if you dont fucking get it. its obvious you never hung out with different people. you guys think im making this shit up or something?
i see this, i hear about this and I have experienced it. I have friends both from the ghetto and from upper class places. and I've spent time in both areas to know what im talking about.

Well, i've lived in both middle class suburbs, mixed-income majority black urban areas, lower class urban areas, and upper middle class urban areas, in three cities, and at least from my personal experience, rich white guys in cities are just as bad as poor black guys.


why can't we just try to discuss it instead of trying to make me seem like im stereo typing people? damn... mad.gif

Because you *are* stereotyping people, and you're not even doing it accurately.



can i say rap music for a prime example? listen to the material. and compare it to country music, or some pop rock, or polka at that.


Give me a break, country music and polka might not be especially sexually explicit but neither is gospel or jazz or the blues. Have you ever listened to the lyrics in emo music or indie rock; they're musical genres dominated by white artists playing to a largely middle class white audience and have just as many explicit sexual references as rap music does.

The reason why rightwingers accuse rap music of being "sexist" but not equally sexual music thats made by and directed at white people of being "sexist" is because they're racist...clearly comparing rap to country and polka arbitrarily makes black dominated musical genres out as being more sexual in an arbitrary comparison; if you arbitrarily compared lyrics in jazz and gospel to lyrics in emo than you could suggest that white people are actually sex obsessed, or compare gospel to metal and white people are extremely violent. But no one goes after emo as "sexist" or metal as "violent" because they don't serve the stereotype of black men as sexually aggressive violent misogynists...a stereotype which you've seem to have adopted.

[Rawthentic]

Growing around the whole hip-hop and rap culture, I find what RPAS says very true. I'm not so sure that this behavior is limited to proletarians and poor people, but I think since we are the oppressed and our class anger we usually take against people we associate with, like women.

I agree with what Luis said above.

[YSR]

Luis hits things very well. I'd like to add just a bit.

Don't assume that just because the sexism isn't as clear or overt in the suburbs or among middle-class or upper-class people doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in other ways. It's the facade of "sophistication" that keeps men in the suburbs from behaving the same way. Sexism and objectification finds plenty of other ways to show up, it just gets manifested differently.


Originally posted by TC
Have you ever listened to the lyrics in emo music or indie rock; they're musical genres dominated by white artists playing to a largely middle class white audience and have just as many explicit sexual references as rap music does.

Well said, Tragic. As a genre, emo is incredibly patriarchal and a lot of the themes are very sexist. There was a great article, which I think I lost, written a few years back on Infoshop.org about how the emo scene is dominated by sexism. (Anyone remember it?)

[R_P_A_S]

thank you Luis Enrique.. see how fucking easy it was people?