Black Panther Party

[Red Menace]

What are our views on the BPP? I&#39;ve read about the new BPP, and it appears they have many anti-semitic views. This I find very surprising. I asked my history teacher, and he said the original BPP was anti-semitic as well. I don&#39;t really believe him, but he&#39;s a pretty smart guy, despite his conservative views <_< . So anyways, where do we stand with the BPP?

[Rawthentic]

Thats fucking bullshit, I can&#39;t believe that. The NBPP (New Black Panther Party, which has nothing to do with the original and has been sued for taking on the name), is probably what your wackass teacher was referring to.

The BPP was a communist party, I&#39;d say the most important and effective in all our times. Their leadership and connection with their people was amazing and it reflected in people&#39;s attitudes towards them.

Their social programs such as Free Breakfast for Children and Liberation Education were forms of building a "culture of liberation", a new mentality and pride in being proletarian.

[Everyday Anarchy]

My dad always says that the Black Panthers were merely a ruthless gang. He&#39;s told me before that many of the members (at least in our area) would be fine with killing me simply because I&#39;m white.


I&#39;m certain that what he says is utter bullshit, but not knowing much about the BPP myself, I&#39;m not in any place to debate.

[Janus]

I&#39;ve read about the new BPP, and it appears they have many anti-semitic views. This I find very surprising. I asked my history teacher, and he said the original BPP was anti-semitic as well.
No, take care not to get the two confused, the New BPP is in no way a continuation of the old BPP.

BPP (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=60025&hl=+Black++Panther)
Fall of Black Panthers (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=58239&hl=+Black++Panther)

[Pirate Utopian]

BPP was anti-zionist, and some idiots think it&#39;s the same as anti-semetic.
BPP was also not racist, they worked along with many predominantly white groups and also hispanic groups.
Huey Newton was also in favor of gayrights as he said in a speech.

I got respect for the BPP on many levels and the certainly we&#39;re revolutionary.

[Ander]

The Black Panthers were certainly not a "ruthless gang," but they were also not a communist party. They were a black nationalist revolutionary organisation with socialist influences.

And fuck the NBPP, they have nothing to do with the original Party and should be discredited whenever possible.

[Rawthentic]

they were also not a communist party. They were a black nationalist revolutionary organisation with socialist influences.
Yes they were. In everything but name I suppose. They were communists.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 17, 2007 02:34 am
What are our views on the BPP? I&#39;ve read about the new BPP, and it appears they have many anti-semitic views. This I find very surprising. I asked my history teacher, and he said the original BPP was anti-semitic as well. I don&#39;t really believe him, but he&#39;s a pretty smart guy, despite his conservative views <_< . So anyways, where do we stand with the BPP?
That&#39;s straight up bullshit. The BPP was America&#39;s most successful revolutionary proletarian movement to this date (they were also Maoists). They way they carried out their work, should be a model for us today, although I think there is alot we can learn in regard to their destruction by the FBI and COINTEL project

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Oh this reminds me. My comrades and I in the RCYB NYC are trying to put together a breakfest program much like the black panthers, does anyone know how the Black Panthers funded their breakfest program because that is a major problem that is keeping us from starting one

[Rawthentic]

That&#39;s straight up bullshit. The BPP was America&#39;s most successful revolutionary proletarian movement to this date (they were also Maoists). They way they carried out their work, should be a model for us today, although I think there is alot we can learn in regard to their destruction by the FBI and COINTEL project
Hurray for their Maoism.

Anyway, one of the problems for their relatively easy destruction was their top-down structure. By destroying the top leaders, the BPP was in shambles.


Oh this reminds me. My comrades and I in the RCYB NYC are trying to put together a breakfest program much like the black panthers, does anyone know how the Black Panthers funded their breakfest program because that is a major problem that is keeping us from starting one
You have to make sure you would be accepted first, and be ready to take some police harassment. You have a lot of things to think about. I mean, how many people are you going to feed and where are you going to get the food?

You should start a thread in the Practice forum.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Hurray for their Maoism.

wait, wait, wait, aren&#39;t you going to slander the entire black panther party for being so naiive and stupid like usually do?

Hasta&#33; I am shocked&#33; :lol:


Anyway, one of the problems for their relatively easy destruction was their top-down structure. By destroying the top leaders, the BPP was in shambles.

no actually the fact that they didn&#39;t enforce democratic centralism well enough led to their downfall. Party Line wasn&#39;t enforced. This made it easy for the FBI to find members in high ranking positions who differed with other members and infiltrate the party and exploit until they ripped open these differences which were very public. This was sort of the same type of thing that was happening to local social-democratic circles in Russia at the time Lenin wrote What is to Be Done? So he spoke to it very clearly.


You have to make sure you would be accepted first, and be ready to take some police harassment.

well in our other line of work we are very much accepted where we go. As for police harrassment, that is a problem but I don&#39;t think it should scare us away from doing what we must. Another problem we face is space. I&#39;ve heard the BPP rented out space to start their programs, right? Well again there is the money problem.


Most of the time they would demand that businesses contribute food to the program. There are some things on that in "The Black Panthers Speak.

thank you for that, but I don&#39;t think we&#39;d be in a position to go around making those demands

[Rawthentic]

wait, wait, wait, aren&#39;t you going to slander the entire black panther party for being so naiive and stupid like usually do?
When the fuck have I ever slandered the BPP? I respect them a lot, and know more than most people do on them. I was being sarcastic on the Maoism because you never fail to score a point for your sect/ideology.

And you wanna talk about sectarianism and stupidity.....? :)


no actually the fact that they didn&#39;t enforce democratic centralism well enough led to their downfall.
Hmm...I don&#39;t think so. Hampton and Seale, and Newton, etc., held too much power and popularity, for obvious reasons, but they might as well have been saying, "Look, Im a Panther, take me down&#33;" If power had been a bit more decentralized in the hands of the Black community, the Party could have survived with even more assassinations.

[KC]

well in our other line of work we are very much accepted where we go. As for police harrassment, that is a problem but I don&#39;t think it should scare us away from doing what we must. Another problem we face is space. I&#39;ve heard the BPP rented out space to start their programs, right? Well again there is the money problem.

I thought they held these programs in local churches sympathetic to them?

[The Grey Blur]

Actually Hasta, surprisingly enough, the BPP are a good example of why the Leninist mode of organisation is correct. The lack of organised and enforced democratic centralism meant that cliques of power devloped and they were easy to turn against each other/divide.

Though the BPP made a few mistakes in their organisational and theoretical methods, I regard the BPP as an inspirational organisation. They were self-educated Socialists and always expounded a class rather than racial view. They fought the intense institutional racism of the USA and provide an example even today for serious revolutionaries.

[VukBZ2005]

Actually Hasta, surprisingly enough, the BPP are a good example of why the Leninist mode of organisation is correct. The lack of organised and enforced democratic centralism meant that cliques of power devloped and they were easy to turn against each other/divide.

1.) If it was correct, then it would have not contributed greatly to its collapse at the hands of COINTELPRO.

If anything, it is a great example of why it doesn&#39;t work. It was the nature of the top-down form of organization that convinced the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of taking to the idea of "cutting the head off so that the body would die" strategy when it came to the Panthers. If their organization was built from the bottom-up, I actually think that they would have survived the onslaught and probably succeeded in uniting the anti-racist movement with the anti-war movement. Who knows what would have happened if that succeeded.

One can not use "Democratic Centralism" as an excuse for their faults.


Though the BPP made a few mistakes in their organisational and theoretical methods, I regard the BPP as an inspirational organisation. They were self-educated Socialists and always expounded a class rather than racial view. They fought the intense institutional racism of the USA and provide an example even today for serious revolutionaries.

2.) Yes, I agree with you to the extent that we learn from their flaws and from their mistakes and that we take in to account from the lesson that they taught us and that they are continuing to teach us today on what is needed to protect the development of a new movement from the repression of the state.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by Communist Firefox
1.) If it was correct, then it would have not contributed greatly to its collapse at the hands of COINTELPRO.

If anything, it is a great example of why it doesn&#39;t work. It was the nature of the top-down form of organization that convinced the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of taking to the idea of "cutting the head off so that the body would die" strategy when it came to the Panthers. If their organization was built from the bottom-up, I actually think that they would have survived the onslaught and probably succeeded in uniting the anti-racist movement with the anti-war movement. Who knows what would have happened if that succeeded.

One can not use "Democratic Centralism" as an excuse for their faults.

Well the point made by PR was there is not enough democratic centralism within the BPP. they were more centralised than they were more democratic. That cetralised approach lead to their down fall. Understand what others say before you an spout off idiotic criticisms about Bolsheviks.

The Bolsheviks followed democratic centralism in a much more repressive state and achieved victory. Most of their leaders were in exile all their life. Yet they were the ones who won the support of people and carried out the first workers revolution in a country with adverse material conditions.

SOme positive and negative aspects of Black Panthers listed out by a former Black Panther. (http://www.thetalkingdrum.com/bla2.html)

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

Tell your teacher that the original BPP were common collaborators with the Yippies, who had among their most well-known members several Jewish people, for example Abbie Hoffman, Stew Albert, and Jerry Rubin.

[Rawthentic]

Abbie Hoffman was not a BPP member, and was hated by the Panthers.

[Red Menace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 08:28 pm
Tell your teacher that the original BPP were common collaborators with the Yippies, who had among their most well-known members several Jewish people, for example Abbie Hoffman, Stew Albert, and Jerry Rubin.
thank you comrade, i will. I guess I should have really believed him. I discussed anti-zionism with him earlier and he said it was just flat out anti-semitism. I knew this to be untrue of course. I guess I should have known better coming from him.

On kind of a separate note. That same teacher and usually the entire class usually ridicule me for being a communist. I don&#39;t really know what to say to the teacher, he&#39;s pretty much a fucking genius *cept for his politics*. I can usually quell the class with a simple argument in favor of communism. I don&#39;t really know what to say to the teacher though, cause he usually shoots my agreement down. When I am ridiculed however he doesn&#39;t mention anything specific, just really communism as a whole being faulty. what should i say to stop him in his tracks?

[Rawthentic]

Specifically, what does he say?

Maybe you should ask him to define what communism is?

[Red Menace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 09:24 pm
Specifically, what does he say?

Maybe you should ask him to define what communism is?
he just makes personal character comments. i have him for history and law. like for example today, we were having a discussion about guns and their laws in law. like someone brought up that you can&#39;t shoot at pictures of actual people on firing ranges. and someone said, who actually does that? and then it eventually got around to the teacher saying jokingly that he would post pictures of his enemies on there, hitler, blah, blah, and then he said me.

i&#39;ve seen him define it. he knows what it is. I&#39;ve asked him, and he&#39;s said he&#39;s read all 3 volumes of das kapital, and various other marxists literature. he is a really smart guy. and he can demonstrate compassion where many of my other classmates don&#39;t. I would probably describe him as a social conservative. i have mixed feelings on the guy. like he has the ability to be funny and cool, but his communist jokes piss me off, and i just want to stop him in his tracks really.

[Rawthentic]

Oh what the fuck? You can hella report that to the administration or some top official to get that bastard fired&#33;&#33;

He takes personal attacks at you because you probably, I&#39;m assuming, have strong and firm communist viewpoints and he is left with nothing but to take you on personally.

Explain that to him see what he says.

[Red Menace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 09:32 pm
Oh what the fuck? You can hella report that to the administration or some top official to get that bastard fired&#33;&#33;

He takes personal attacks at you because you probably, I&#39;m assuming, have strong and firm communist viewpoints and he is left with nothing but to take you on personally.

Explain that to him see what he says.
i don&#39;t really wanna get him fired. and sorry i just edited my post while you were typing your response, to kinda explain why. i just wanna shut them up through intelligence and wit, rather than reporting it.

[The Grey Blur]

I had the same problem. My history teacher knew I was a Communist and occasionally would take a few shots at me. I wasn&#39;t politically developed enough to formulate my own positions and refute his so I often gave a bad impression to the rest of the class.

I suggesedt you study the works of the major theorists (Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky) until you have a much better grasp of Communism, what it is and what it isn&#39;t. If you can give simple, reasonable and understandable answers he will soon leave you alone.

And get a sense of humour. That is an invaluable aid.

[Pirate Utopian]

My historyteacher doesnt know I&#39;m a Commie, atleast I dont think so, but this peroid I had history on the Soviet Union.
The book itself was unbalanced enough but for him to spew out shit about how Communists are dangerous and the idealogy is a farce and sush.
Too bad, I used to think he was a nice guy.

[Red_Pride]

Often I have heard of Black Gangs that just simply pose as "The Black Panther Party" simply for attention in the news. I have not heard anything regarding the original BPP but at the moment they are considered largely Anti-Semetic by both Conservatives and Leftists.

-First post by the way&#33;-

[Rawthentic]

they are considered largely Anti-Semetic by both Conservatives and Leftists.
Dude, did you read the whole thread? Thats fucking New Black Panther Party, which has nothing to do with the original revolutionaries, and are in fact labeled as a hate group alongside the Nazis and Skinheads.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 11:35 pm

they are considered largely Anti-Semetic by both Conservatives and Leftists.
Dude, did you read the whole thread? Thats fucking New Black Panther Party, which has nothing to do with the original revolutionaries, and are in fact labeled as a hate group alongside the Nazis and Skinheads.
which is plain idiotic. The New Black Panther Party does have many critical ideological problems such as there anti-semitist views, which should be ruthlessly critiscized by communists and challenged, but they are still a far more progressive force than than alot of liberal tendencies and groups I&#39;ve seen on the streets.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

wait, wait, wait, aren&#39;t you going to slander the entire black panther party for being so naiive and stupid like usually do?
When the fuck have I ever slandered the BPP? I respect them a lot, and know more than most people do on them. I was being sarcastic on the Maoism because you never fail to score a point for your sect/ideology.

And you wanna talk about sectarianism and stupidity.....? :)

umm well that&#39;s what you usually do when you here the word "Maoist", "Leninist", or "Stalinist"


Hmm...I don&#39;t think so. Hampton and Seale, and Newton, etc., held too much power and popularity, for obvious reasons, but they might as well have been saying, "Look, Im a Panther, take me down&#33;"

hardly, in this case, the only mistake they made is not protecting their vanguard leaders as much as they should&#39;ve, and that&#39;s a mistake which we can, and have learned from. What led to the downfall was the fact that the police were able to exploit different sects against each other because centralism wasn&#39;t enforced.

[Rawthentic]

umm well that&#39;s what you usually do when you here the word "Maoist", "Leninist", or "Stalinist"
Stalin yeah, I will never miss a chance to slander and destroy the image of that counter-revolutionary bastard. But not "Leninist" or "Maoist." Why don&#39;t you show some fucking proof when I have slandered Maoism?


hardly, in this case, the only mistake they made is not protecting their vanguard leaders as much as they should&#39;ve, and that&#39;s a mistake which we can, and have learned from. What led to the downfall was the fact that the police were able to exploit different sects against each other because centralism wasn&#39;t enforced.
They were able to exploit plainly and simply because of the strict top-down structure. You even say it yourself. You admit that they vanguard leaders are the "heads" of the movement and most important of all. This is wrong. Power should have been more decentralized in the hands of the black community.