What is stalinism?

[jaddaok]

Could someone explain to me what the acctual differences between marxist-leninism and stalinism is? Allso, would you define stalinism as a communist ideology, a socialict one or none?

[Leo]

I would define it a capitalist ideology.

[Boriznov]

Stalinism was just the period in USSR when Stalin ruled it. It's not a communist ideology. People get called Stalinists when they defend or support Stalin's ways.

[More Fire for the People]

Stalinism is state-capitalism in an era of primitive accumulation of capital. Marxism-Leninism is another phrase for Stalinism while Bolshevik-Leninism and & Leninism represent a leftist thread in Russian history drawing influences from Russian populism and 'Marxism' [ specifically Kautskyism ].

[BreadBros]

Stalinism isn't really much of an "ism", it merely refers to certain changes to the nature of the USSR during Stalin's rule. The key point to identify Stalinism would probably be the idea of "Socialism in one country". Essenitially, due to the failures of revolutions to materialize in Germany and the rest of Europe, the thesis argues that the focus for international communists should be on defending the worker's state of the USSR and that the USSR should focus on defense and concentrating its strength rather than on continuing the class struggle internally and proceeding through socialism. Of course there are other characteristics too, heavy state repression, etc. but those are really the products of tactical moves within the party not really any ideological or theoretical source.

Usually the label 'Marxism-Leninism' is used by people who others would characterize as 'Stalinists'. They support Lenin, are against Trotsky and are against "revisionism" (meaning the course the USSR took beginning with Kruschev). Obviously there are two words because one has a negative and one has a positive connotation, depends on your viewpoint.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

okay can people pretend to be objective critical thinkers rather than subjective spamming trolls? To claim that "Stalinism" is capitalism is upsurd.

to the OP,

Stalinism doesn't exsist. It was a trotskyist deragatory slur. Stalin was a Marxist-Leninist because he wasn't a theoretician, he was a leader.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Stalinism doesn't exsist. It was a trotskyist deragatory slur. Stalin was a Marxist-Leninist because he wasn't a theoretician, he was a leader.

This is a common thing to done in an attempt to give Stalinism some credibility.

It does not work, no one has the monopoly on what you term or label something.

They are forced to deny Stalinism because they simply do not like the label.

In the west, the trotskyists propaganda has been really very successful in destroying Stalin's image and making the public aware of our (various) positions on the SU, but how ardently we reject the Stalin era.



You cannot deny a poltical term just because it hurts your feelings. :P

[Okocim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 10:10 pm
Usually the label 'Marxism-Leninism' is used by people who others would characterize as 'Stalinists'. They support Lenin, are against Trotsky and are against "revisionism" (meaning the course the USSR took beginning with Kruschev). Obviously there are two words because one has a negative and one has a positive connotation, depends on your viewpoint.
important to remember that the label "Marxist-Leninists" isn't used solely by Stalinists though. :)

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 03:38 pm
okay can people pretend to be objective critical thinkers rather than subjective spamming trolls? To claim that "Stalinism" is capitalism is upsurd.

to the OP,

Stalinism doesn't exsist. It was a trotskyist deragatory slur. Stalin was a Marxist-Leninist because he wasn't a theoretician, he was a leader.
I am being 'objective'. Stalinism is a trend of state-capitalism along with New Dealism, Nazism, & Fascism. The property in the Soviet Union was (1) not in the possession of the proletariat and (2) in the position of coordinators [ capitalists ] who lived a life of relative privelege.

[Janus]

Leninism vs. Stalinism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=54903&hl=Stalinism)

Leninist vs. Stalinist (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=59543&hl=Stalinism)

Most Stalinists consider themselves Marxists Leninists since Stalin didn't contribute enough to Leninism to create his own separate ideology. The main defining feature of course is Stalin's socialism in one country theory.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Hopscotch Anthill+April 16, 2007 09:53 pm--> (Hopscotch Anthill @ April 16, 2007 09:53 pm)
[email protected] 16, 2007 03:38 pm
okay can people pretend to be objective critical thinkers rather than subjective spamming trolls? To claim that "Stalinism" is capitalism is upsurd.

to the OP,

Stalinism doesn't exsist. It was a trotskyist deragatory slur. Stalin was a Marxist-Leninist because he wasn't a theoretician, he was a leader.
I am being 'objective'. Stalinism is a trend of state-capitalism along with New Dealism, Nazism, & Fascism. The property in the Soviet Union was (1) not in the possession of the proletariat and (2) in the position of coordinators [ capitalists ] who lived a life of relative privelege. [/b]
umm yes it was in the hands of the proletariat. To compare the Soviet Union and the struggle of the workers to nazism is sick, if you can't realize that then I shouldn't waste my time. Land was collectivized so that the people as a whole owned and ran the land and factories, while they were managed by one person, were controlled largely by the soviets and other worker organs. Besides, the factory problem was critiscized by Mao Tse-tung and corrected during the socialist experience in China


This is a common thing to done in an attempt to give Stalinism some credibility.

It does not work, no one has the monopoly on what you term or label something.

They are forced to deny Stalinism because they simply do not like the label.

You cannot deny a poltical term just because it hurts your feelings.

I couldn't care less about the label, its just inaccurate. Trotskyism and Maoism are theories because the two made theoretical contribution, Stalin was just a student and a leader, and viewed Lenin as the highest revolutionary.


In the west, the trotskyists propaganda has been really very successful in destroying Stalin's image and making the public aware of our (various) positions on the SU, but how ardently we reject the Stalin era.



:lol: quite funny how you pride yourself on undermining the worker's struggle! "yes!! Our 'propaganda' has been successful! Yes! We've split the communist movement! W00t"

-- BTW I thought you were an anarchist???

[Rawthentic]

I agree with Hopscotch, in that Stalinism is a form of state-capitalism as is fascism and nazism.

They are all reactions of decadent capitalism and a new form for capitalism to maintain its grip.

And in my opinion, it is sick and disgusting to an incredible degree to defend Stalin and call yourself a "communist."

Just plain fucking sick and pathetic and ignorant.

[BreadBros]

I am being 'objective'. Stalinism is a trend of state-capitalism along with New Dealism, Nazism, & Fascism.

Those aren't really state-capitalism. At no point in any of those 3 economic systems was the capitalist class replaced as a whole by the state. New Dealism is merely Keynesian pump-priming economics and Nazism and Fascism are corporatist social-economic systems.


I couldn't care less about the label, its just inaccurate. Trotskyism and Maoism are theories because the two made theoretical contribution, Stalin was just a student and a leader, and viewed Lenin as the highest revolutionary.

Its not inaccurate at all. Even the casual observor will see that economic relations were much different under Stalin than they were previously or afterwards, thus the term Stalinism was coined to refer to that. Furthermore the policy of 'Socialism in one country' is a theoretical addition that had a rather large impact on world proletariat organizing. Agendas became dominated by putting emphasis on the USSR as a nation-state instead of on localized class struggle.


quite funny how you pride yourself on undermining the worker's struggle! "yes!! Our 'propaganda' has been successful! Yes! We've split the communist movement! W00t"

:rolleyes: Obviously he doesn't see Stalinism as being a part of the worker's struggle on a very fundamental level. Were you unable to pick that up or are you just trying to provide a distraction?

[BreadBros]

I agree with Hopscotch, in that Stalinism is a form of state-capitalism as is fascism and nazism.

They are all reactions of decadent capitalism and a new form for capitalism to maintain its grip.

Actually I think many would argue that state-capitalism is just primitive capitalist development. In other words, state-capitalism is a beginning phase of capitalist production and capital accumulation not a decadent one.

Debate is still up for the other two, although I would say, we're still here and capitalism is still around. Seems more like a crisis to me than a true phase of decadence.

[Boriznov]

Weren't the soviets abolished in 1918 ?

[Whitten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 02:09 pm
Weren't the soviets abolished in 1918 ?
Yes thats the the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics was then founded in 1922...

The soviets remained through until Gorby.

Stalinism isnt a political ideology or position. Its a term used almost exclusivly offencivly by Trotskyites and anarchists.

Stalin was a marxist-Leninist. Socialism in One country was a strategic policy not a theoretic contribution, it was based on lenin's theoretical contributions on Imperialism.

[Coggeh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 02:46 am
I agree with Hopscotch, in that Stalinism is a form of state-capitalism as is fascism and nazism.

They are all reactions of decadent capitalism and a new form for capitalism to maintain its grip.

And in my opinion, it is sick and disgusting to an incredible degree to defend Stalin and call yourself a "communist."

Just plain fucking sick and pathetic and ignorant.
Well Stalinism and Fascism were different economically ... it was the politics of both ideologies or of hitler and stalin that led both to be compared with each other .

That said Stalin was never a proper socialist he just admired Lenin(or at least was thought to have) but never actually tried hard enough to make socialism work , just tried to defend a deformed workers state.

[UndergroundConnexion]

the best definition given here was the one saying : "Stalinism is the word that describes the nature of the rule of Stalin". Cant remember who said it . I think it was in the first posts

[Vargha Poralli]

Past Thread about Stalinism (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=58102&hl=Stalinism)

MIA's analysis of Stalinism. (http://marx.org/glossary/terms/s/t.htm#stalinism)

[Leo]

New Dealism is merely Keynesian pump-priming economics

Yes, and Keynesian economics is state-capitalism also, arguably the most effective model for capitalism.

[Devrim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 02:47 am

I am being 'objective'. Stalinism is a trend of state-capitalism along with New Dealism, Nazism, & Fascism.

Those aren't really state-capitalism. At no point in any of those 3 economic systems was the capitalist class replaced as a whole by the state. New Dealism is merely Keynesian pump-priming economics and Nazism and Fascism are corporatist social-economic systems.


I think that it depends on what you mean by state capitalist. I think that there was a general tendency towards state capitalism, stronger in some countries than in others. It doesn't mean that 'the capitalist class was replaced as a whole'. It talks about a tendency in the world capitalist economy. Stalinism was part of this.

Devrim

[gilhyle]

Let me try and define what I take to be the key ideas of Stalinism:

1. The defence of really existing socialist societies is more important than the promotion of revolution in capitalist countries;

2. The Revolutionary Party can only be kept on the correct path by the exercise of strict internal discipline, inlcuding the banning of factions and the physical elimination of unaceptable tendencies where practical;

3. The bourgeoisie include significant progressive forces who can be won to support really existing socialism, particularly in imperialised countries;

4. The achievement of key short term political goals is generally more important than the protection of te integrity of democratic procedures within the labour movement.

[Spike]

Stalin was no theorist. Hence, there is no "Stalinism". Stalin's policies can be summed up as 'non-capitalist road to socialism'. The term "Stalinist" is so abused by Trotskyists and anarchists that it's lost any meaning. I've heard everyone from Ceauşescu to Gus Hall of the revisionist CPUSA to Sam Marcy of World Workers called "Stalinist" when they clearly were not.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 09:38 pm
okay can people pretend to be objective critical thinkers rather than subjective spamming trolls? To claim that "Stalinism" is capitalism is upsurd.

to the OP,

Stalinism doesn't exsist. It was a trotskyist deragatory slur. Stalin was a Marxist-Leninist because he wasn't a theoretician, he was a leader.
Trotsky is the business!

[RGacky3]

Stalinism only exists if there are people who call themselves Stalinists, and I don't think anyone does. They jst call themselves Marxists-Lenninists.