Question thats bothered me

[Commierade]

Hey guys, just wondering if you could answer one quick question I've pondered recently about careers in a post-revolution socialist society in America.

How exactly will careers be determined?
will babies simply be slapped on the butt at birth with a future job, or will it be more complicated?

Personally, I believe that education through high-school should be mandatory and that education onward should be optional, but during that time children should be evaluated in some way to determine what type of job they are capable of doing best.

How they will evaluated, I do not know, maybe through some sort of standardized test but that might not be enough.

All careers in a socialist society are valuable as long as they benefit the community, but somethings are harder than others and while any doctor can be taught to flip burgers, teaching a fry-cook to perform brain surgery might be a different story.

So what do you guys think about this matter?

[Question everything]

I think we'd be allowed to do what ever we wanted, not unlike capitalism.

[Commierade]

Originally posted by Question [email protected] 15, 2007 08:29 pm
I think we'd be allowed to do what ever we wanted, not unlike capitalism.
I thought about this too, but my only problem with that is that too many people might try to work in one career field leaving empty jobs that need to be occupied to benefit society.
If every cook decided to be a lawyer or something who would feed us?

[which doctor]

How exactly will careers be determined?
will babies simply be slapped on the butt at birth with a future job, or will it be more complicated?
We will do what we want.


I think we'd be allowed to do what ever we wanted, not unlike capitalism.
Actually, very unlike capitalism. We are not allowed to do whatever we want, unless of course you are very rich and don't have to worry about find a decent job that pays.


If every cook decided to be a lawyer or something who would feed us?
For one thing, every cook won't decide to be a lawyer, especially considering what little work would be left to lawyers in a post-revolutionary society. With no or little coercion, the role of a lawyer is greatly diminished. Though if for some reason there was a shortage of cooks, well oh shit, cook for yourself.

[Question everything]

I understand that in capitalism if you grow up in a ghetto you're not going to be a laywer, I meant as capitalism pretends it does.

[Sentinel]

Something many don't consider is that the capitalist labour market is pretty much artificial and unnatural. So many dull and unpleasant jobs could either be divided or automatised into nonexistance, while so many people could study what they actually are interested in instead of choosing their education after what the 'market demands' (where the jobs and the money are to be found) -- if the society wasn't structured after the whistle of the profiteers.

In communism people could propably also keep educating themselves all their lives, doing one thing for a while, then studying for the next thing. As communism liberates the people from wage slavery and the price system, there is no need to plan your entire life around a 'career' which hopefully will sustain you and your kids and keep your bills paid. Instead, in communism when recapturing the power and control over their own labour man rediscovers the joy of expressing themselves through their work.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

The really shite jobs like sewer duty and rubbish collection should be a rotatable community obligation that everyone able has to do sometimes.

[Jitsu]

I dont like the idea of forced standardized education, and I like the idea of a hierarchy deciding our careers in advance even less.

Education should be optional, but provided to everybody free of charge. Educating our people is an investment with high returns. However, people learn better when they learn what interests them rather than when they are forced to learn something they have no interest in.

Some people may choose craft professions as a specialty. Mechanics and farmers are important, so if people want to devote themselves to subject material relevant to these professions, why not let them focus specifically on what interests them?

Also, I think that further education should be available to people of all age groups. If a youth wants to drop out of school for a few years and travel while living off their wits, this should not be the end of their future or chance to better themselves. If a farmer at the age of 30 wants to take classes to learn math and chemistry, this option should not be closed to them.

Many people do not do well in a rigid structured environment. Many people dont respond to the same teaching methods as everybody else, and may do better getting one on one craft trading as an apprentice.

Basic reading and writing ability should be highly encouraged, and I doubt many people would choose to be illiterate in an egalitarian society. Forcing people to attend 12 years of a rigid educational program may not be the ideal situation for everybody. If somebody wants to learn how to farm and build homes at the age of 13, and that is really their own choice, they should be offered an apprenticeship position and perhaps get some additional tutoring in basic subject material to be completed at their own pace, even if it takes them until they are 25. In the mean time they can be useful members of our society by learning craft trades they actually like. If somebody wants to be a doctor, then all the biology, chemistry, and health sciences classes should be provided for them.

[Jitsu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 12:14 am
The really shite jobs like sewer duty and rubbish collection should be a rotatable community obligation that everyone able has to do sometimes.
I very much agree.

A few exceptions to this would perhaps be if there was high demand for somebodies skills, like a doctor who was treating the sick during an epidemic, he is probably already working overtime and putting in more hours than any person should have to. Some kind of voucher for volunteer service should be provided.

It doesnt seem fair though to make some people clean shit off of toilets 5 days a week, while other people can participate in much more rewarding professions. Its not fair to marginalize people like that.

Community chores should be a group task. Those who are able should cover a portion of the burden for everybody.

[redcannon]

its hard to imagine what it would all be like, considering it had never been done. we're like serfs pondering capitalism...kind of....

[apathy maybe]

will babies simply be slapped on the butt at birth with a future job, or will it be more complicated?
Fuck no. This isn't Brave New World we are proposing here.

We are proposing a radical freedom for people. We want there to be the means for people to do what they wish.

We want socialism, not totalitarianism.


As such, if people have a desire for a job, then they can do that (assuming they have sufficient training to actually do the job). But of course, there will be a lot less work to actually do. There will be a lot more leisure time. Why? Because jobs and positions that are 'useless' will be non-existent. Examples include, bank managers (in fact most "managerial" type jobs will disappear I'm sure) and other money pushers, as well as full time politicians. As well, with the removal of the "need" to consume consume consume, and the availability of goods at cost with out profit (or even for free if it is communism), people won't have to work nearly as much.

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 06:32 am
its hard to imagine what it would all be like, considering it had never been done. we're like serfs pondering capitalism...kind of....
I think I agree. Ultimately Commierade, the point is that questions like this will be determined by the people who overthrow capitalism and the people who build the post-capitalist society. So we dont have to take anyones word, its up to us. I would argue that most people will choose to create a society where people are not only completely free to pick their own occupations but where occupations remain somewhat fluid over time so people can change them. Obviously there are some logistical problems with this view, which will have to be worked out.

[Janus]

Personally, I believe that education through high-school should be mandatory and that education onward should be optional, but during that time children should be evaluated in some way to determine what type of job they are capable of doing best.
I don't see any problems with that unless you're going to force students to comply with such evaluations.

As far as jobs and careers go, Marx believed that there should be no division of labor within a communist society though I think that without extremely advanced automation that will be quite difficult and even then there's only so much info./time available to a certain person. So although I think that people will pretty much be given strong leeway within their career choice, there will inevitably still be a degree of societal influence on such choices as well as a limit on the freedoms that certain jobs can enjoy.