Chuck Norris is a neo-con

[which doctor]

:o

Surprising to me, I found out that Chuck Norris actually writes!

He has a column for the World Net Daily http://www.wnd.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=274

His website also has a "Christian Area"
http://www.chucknorris.com/html/christian.aspx


So let's lay off the Chuck Norris idolism ;)

[t_wolves_fan]

I don't think he's a neocon, I think he's a pretty sincere conservative. There are great differences between the two.

Neocons for instance think they can and should use American power to change the world for the better, such as in Iraq. Real conservatives prefer to use our military as little as possible, and many were generally against the war in Iraq from the start.

[Rawthentic]

Neocons for instance think they can and should use American power to change the world for the better, such as in Iraq
For their benefit of course. They won't put morality above their class interests.

And the only way Iraq will be changed fundamentally is by destroying the root of the war, and all wars....

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 08:56 pm

Neocons for instance think they can and should use American power to change the world for the better, such as in Iraq
For their benefit of course.
And you're any different?


I know, you want to change it for others' benefit too, but according to whose terms?

Yours right?

[Rawthentic]

Yeah, mine and my working-class brothers, humanity's majority.

I am selfish in terms of saying that I want all power for the class I belong to simply because we make the world run, and marginalization for the parasites.

And it's all in terms of our class interests, which are diametrically opposed to the capitalists.

[colonelguppy]

so everyone in your class must agree with you then?

[Rawthentic]

Who said that? I am a class conscious proletarian, so I know what needs to be done and the path to be taken.

In times of sharp class struggle workers will act in their own interests, if thats what you mean by everyone agreeing with me.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 12:11 am
Who said that? I am a class conscious proletarian, so I know what needs to be done and the path to be taken.

In times of sharp class struggle workers will act in their own interests, if thats what you mean by everyone agreeing with me.
Um no, I don't think that's what he meant.

I think he meant, if I may attempt to speak for him, do all other of your class conscious proletarian brothers (and sisters!) agree with you on what needs to be done and what path needs to be taken?

Do you think all those who are not class conscious would agree with you if they gained "consciousness"?


May I also ask, why are you not in Iraq preaching your vision of a secular, non-ethnic state to the population instead of from the safety of an internet site?

[Rawthentic]

Of course they all don't agree...at this point. And not all will. Some will be bought off by the oppressors and take their side.

And when working people gain consciousness about their situation and class interests, it is almost inevitable that revolution will be their conclusion.

But yeah, let me fly my ass over to an intense imperialist war. We in the Communist League are part of the IFC US chapter, so fuck off.

And you can't paint me as an internet revolutionary, that is if you knew me personally.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 08:48 pm
Of course they all don't agree...at this point. And not all will. Some will be bought off by the oppressors and take their side.

And when working people gain consciousness about their situation and class interests, it is almost inevitable that revolution will be their conclusion.

But yeah, let me fly my ass over to an intense imperialist war. We in the Communist League are part of the IFC US chapter, so fuck off.

And you can't paint me as an internet revolutionary, that is if you knew me personally.
then your not really too much different from the neocons who think they know whats best for iraqis. it's the same thing.

[Rawthentic]

No I'm not. The Neocons care for Iraq so that they can extend their tentacles and rape Iraq even more.

I know what is best for me as a proletarian and understand reality to know what needs to be done to help my class comrades.

The suffering people of Iraq are not the class comrades of the neocons.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Fuck Chuck Norris.

[Sentinel]

t_wolves_fan


I think he meant, if I may attempt to speak for him, do all other of your class conscious proletarian brothers (and sisters!) agree with you on what needs to be done and what path needs to be taken?

People from the same class have the same class interests. Think about it!


Do you think all those who are not class conscious would agree with you if they gained "consciousness"?

By the time any left-communist/anarchist/syndicalist, or any revolution aiming for actual, immediate worker's rule and self-government can even reach nationwide proportions an overwhelming majority of the working class ought to be quite class conscious. How could they otherwise ever seize, not to mention excercise, their power?

I mean, only governments practising minority rule and representing a minority of the population (like the US one and various other pseudo-democratic ones, as well as many outright dictators and despots, leaders of military juntas etc) can come to power without a majority behind them -- true (direct) democracies can actually by definition only be established by a majority of the people they concern!


May I also ask, why are you not in Iraq preaching your vision of a secular, non-ethnic state to the population instead of from the safety of an internet site?

Because, unlike the US government, he leaves problems considering Iraqi administration into the hands of the Iraqi proletariat.

t_Wolves, how can you still be here opposing us with all those tired, old arguments? Do you like, ever listen to what we actually have to say?

And now to the actual reason I posted in this thread at all: everyone check out this (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=42895) hilarious thread about Chuck Norris! :lol:

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 10:25 pm
No I'm not. The Neocons care for Iraq so that they can extend their tentacles and rape Iraq even more.

I know what is best for me as a proletarian and understand reality to know what needs to be done to help my class comrades.

The suffering people of Iraq are not the class comrades of the neocons.
what difference does it make if they're "comrades"? and who are you to state their motives? the principle idea is that you're saying you know what's best for people, neocons do the same thing.

infact, everyone does

[Political_Chucky]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/adbanners/ad.Those_Shirts.110506.Redefeat_Communism.125x200. gif

I find this image rather amusing, which was an ad for good ol' Chucks christian page haha.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 01:48 am
And when working people gain consciousness about their situation and class interests, it is almost inevitable that revolution will be their conclusion.


So once everyone agrees with you, you'll get what you want.

Good thing that won't happen.


But yeah, let me fly my ass over to an intense imperialist war. We in the Communist League are part of the IFC US chapter, so fuck off.

You didn't answer the question.

Explain how, precisely, you intend to change the hearts and minds of Iraqis from the safety of your computer desk?

Would it not be more effective to try to win them over to your side directly?

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 04:12 am
By the time any left-communist/anarchist/syndicalist, or any revolution aiming for actual, immediate worker's rule and self-government can even reach nationwide proportions an overwhelming majority of the working class ought to be quite class conscious. How could they otherwise ever seize, not to mention excercise, their power?


Obviously.

Do you honestly believe that a critical mass of workers is going to ignore all the other things they do not have in common?


Because, unlike the US government, he leaves problems considering Iraqi administration into the hands of the Iraqi proletariat.

Why would an interest group such as his that advocates they abandon their religion and ethnicity be created if the goal is to let them all decide their own fate?

That doesn't make any sense, does it?

[Tungsten]

By the time any left-communist/anarchist/syndicalist, or any revolution aiming for actual, immediate worker's rule and self-government can even reach nationwide proportions an overwhelming majority of the working class ought to be quite class conscious.
We still haven't established what it means to be class conscious.

[Janus]

So let's lay off the Chuck Norris idolism
By whom? The recent Chuck Norris craze lately is simply a joke.

Norris's politics aren't all that unusual, however his religious beliefs are.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by colonelguppy+April 15, 2007 08:20 pm--> (colonelguppy @ April 15, 2007 08:20 pm)
[email protected] 15, 2007 10:25 pm
No I'm not. The Neocons care for Iraq so that they can extend their tentacles and rape Iraq even more.

I know what is best for me as a proletarian and understand reality to know what needs to be done to help my class comrades.

The suffering people of Iraq are not the class comrades of the neocons.
what difference does it make if they're "comrades"? and who are you to state their motives? the principle idea is that you're saying you know what's best for people, neocons do the same thing.

infact, everyone does [/b]
I guarantee you the neocons don't have the interest of the iraqis in mind

[RedAnarchist]

Who the hell is Chuck Norris anyway? Even when looking on the relevant wikipedia page I didn't recofnise him. The only place I've ever heard of him is on the Internet. I don't care about him and I find his politics idiotic.

[inquisitive_socialist]

lack of knowledge who an old washed up actor is isnt a bad thing necessarily, but its really sad to see so many people up in arms over such an awfully stupid topic.

[Rawthentic]

We still haven't established what it means to be class conscious.
For the working-class, it means the understanding that our interests are diametrically opposed to that of the capitalists, and revolution will be needed to fundamentally change our lives.

Or so is my opinion.

[inquisitive_socialist]

and how exactly, or maybe when, will this revolution take place? its easy enough to say your a revolutionary, or to even be one, but to claim that a revolution will, may , or must take place puts you in the spotlight of history. people who theorize about the future tend to be wrong. even marx and engels were wrong when they thought that a global communist revolution was inevitable. hope you can live past the inevitability.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by redcannon+April 16, 2007 05:10 pm--> (redcannon @ April 16, 2007 05:10 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 08:20 pm

[email protected] 15, 2007 10:25 pm
No I'm not. The Neocons care for Iraq so that they can extend their tentacles and rape Iraq even more.

I know what is best for me as a proletarian and understand reality to know what needs to be done to help my class comrades.

The suffering people of Iraq are not the class comrades of the neocons.
what difference does it make if they're "comrades"? and who are you to state their motives? the principle idea is that you're saying you know what's best for people, neocons do the same thing.

infact, everyone does
I guarantee you the neocons don't have the interest of the iraqis in mind [/b]
how? is there some kind of public forum where they state their motives?

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 02:53 am

We still haven't established what it means to be class conscious.
For the working-class, it means the understanding that our interests are diametrically opposed to that of the capitalists, and revolution will be needed to fundamentally change our lives.

Or so is my opinion.
Translated:

It means agreeing with me.

[Rawthentic]

Of course not.

I am class conscious, and I understand what I stated above. By the workers going the same organic process, they experience the same.

You can make it seem all religious and shit, but you are obscuring what really goes on.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 12:49 am


You can make it seem all religious and shit, but you are obscuring what really goes on.
There is no difference between what you spout and religion.

The revolution is the rapture. Your "consciousness" is your faith. Your advocacy is evangelism.

In all cases both equally ridiculous.

[Red Tung]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+April 18, 2007 02:57 am--> (t_wolves_fan @ April 18, 2007 02:57 am)
[email protected] 18, 2007 12:49 am


You can make it seem all religious and shit, but you are obscuring what really goes on.
There is no difference between what you spout and religion.

The revolution is the rapture. Your "consciousness" is your faith. Your advocacy is evangelism.

In all cases both equally ridiculous. [/b]
How are they both ridiculous?

One rests on an invisible sky daddy to welcome us to his equally invisible retirement home if we're "good" here on Earth, otherwise we'll go to a very bad place. (Assuming monotheistic, hierarchical religions like Islam, Judaism and Christianity)

The other rests on the interplay of social, cultural and material influences that may in the future result in a rebellion of the majority against a dysfunctional social system that increasingly only benefits the elite. Note, the emphasis on the word may which means revolution may be only one of many possibilities of the consequences of the unravelling of a system that no longer supports the well-being of the majority of social actors forced to participate in it. A return to much more primitive and violent type of barbarism could just as well be another possibility. Still another possibility is a destructive global war over the remaining spoils of a environmentally degraded planet.

The second paragraph outlining much more "worldly" possiblities is far more realistic and less ridiculous than hoping for the sky daddy to arrive on judgement day.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 18, 2007 03:39 am

The second paragraph outlining much more "worldly" possiblities is far more realistic and less ridiculous than hoping for the sky daddy to arrive on judgement day.
I will agree, it is slightly more realistic to hope that the world's 6 billion proles will one day put aside culture, ethnicity, religion, and personal preference and come to agreement on an economic/political system that doesn't require anyone to be in charge, than is the existence of a God as described by any religion. Which is why I'm a quasi-Buddhist/agnostic.

[Rawthentic]

I will agree, it is slightly more realistic to hope that the world's 6 billion proles will one day put aside culture, ethnicity, religion, and personal preference and come to agreement on an economic/political system that doesn't require anyone to be in charge, than is the existence of a God as described by any religion. Which is why I'm a quasi-Buddhist/agnostic.
Its not as if they have have so many choices on the table to choose from. Unlike you, communists understand the class struggle and what it must inevitably must lead to. Its not like working people are going to say, "Hey, look, communism sounds cool!". Stop being wack and dumb. They're going to say, "Hey, look, communism is a system for us working people, and we can build this ourselves and make better lives than the ones we have under capitalism."

And this society requires workers to be in charge.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by patton+April 16, 2007 03:21 pm--> (patton @ April 16, 2007 03:21 pm)
[email protected] 15, 2007 08:06 pm
:o

Surprising to me, I found out that Chuck Norris actually writes!

He has a column for the World Net Daily http://www.wnd.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=274

His website also has a "Christian Area"
http://www.chucknorris.com/html/christian.aspx


So let's lay off the Chuck Norris idolism ;)
Who gives a crap what Chuck Norris has to say. [/b]
Thank you, at least somebody is sane...

[redcannon]

Originally posted by colonelguppy+April 16, 2007 09:36 pm--> (colonelguppy @ April 16, 2007 09:36 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 05:10 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 08:20 pm

[email protected] 15, 2007 10:25 pm
No I'm not. The Neocons care for Iraq so that they can extend their tentacles and rape Iraq even more.

I know what is best for me as a proletarian and understand reality to know what needs to be done to help my class comrades.

The suffering people of Iraq are not the class comrades of the neocons.
what difference does it make if they're "comrades"? and who are you to state their motives? the principle idea is that you're saying you know what's best for people, neocons do the same thing.

infact, everyone does
I guarantee you the neocons don't have the interest of the iraqis in mind
how? is there some kind of public forum where they state their motives? [/b]
no but how bout the fact the the US has imperialised another country and Iraq is on the brink of civil war?