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View Full Version : 'Political graf' vs. 'tagging'



OneBrickOneVoice
14th April 2007, 00:37
wait RO do you do political graffiti or just tags?

Red October
14th April 2007, 02:01
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 06:37 pm
wait RO do you do political graffiti or just tags?
political graffiti

Black Dagger
14th April 2007, 06:17
Eh, you gotta practice your craft - just doin' slogans all the time is not gonna help you grow to the fullest as a writer or an artist, you gotta get out there and try anything and everything.... just my 2c :P

OneBrickOneVoice
14th April 2007, 06:29
Originally posted by Red October+April 14, 2007 01:01 am--> (Red October @ April 14, 2007 01:01 am)
[email protected] 13, 2007 06:37 pm
wait RO do you do political graffiti or just tags?
political graffiti [/b]
oh yeah that's what I thought.


Eh, you gotta practice your graft - just doin' slogans all the time is not gonna help you grow as a writer or an artist.

many people can scribble on walls, we need graffiti that speaks to the masses. Imagine what kind of impact it would have on you if on the streets instead of seeing "hype" and "Ash" you saw "No war but Class War" and "Workers of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains" everywhere you went

Black Dagger
14th April 2007, 09:06
Originally posted by LH+--> (LH)many people can scribble on walls [/b]

Graf does not equal 'scribble on walls' - it takes ability to write well, how bout you go get a can and hit the streets, i guarantee your piece will be shit -> it takes practice, time.... experience, like any art, dismissing all writing as 'scribble' is ridiculous/ignorant.


Originally posted by [email protected]

we need graffiti that speaks to the masses.

There is such a thing as art you know? As distinct from abstract political propaganda.

Not every piece has to be politically motivated, sometimes people write, put up pieces etc. as a form of artistic expression, creativity in action and out there for people to see - and there's nothing wrong with that, it's vital to the survival and growth of graf culture, and street art generally.

That said, i've probably done more political tagging than anyone in this thread... i dont say that to boast, but to make this point... its both possible and desireable to write for politics and 'art' (as well as for many other things)... it's not and should never be a case of either or, infact framing things that way is an attack on writing, on graf culture. It's an attempt to box people into your way of thinking about 'art' whilst stigmatising everything elses approach as 'scribble' ... and that's bullshit.


LH

Imagine what kind of impact it would have on you if on the streets instead of seeing "hype" and "Ash" you saw "No war but Class War" and "Workers of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains" everywhere you went

This is a pretty naive POV IMO, sure some people will take something from slogans like that, but a lot of people wont care or understand what they mean, and others will be alienated by their obscurity of their militancy - you dont connect with people by yelling militant slogans at them (or writing them as the case may be).

You're also missing another aspect of writing, it's not all about 'reaching the masses' - a very big part of graf culture (probably the biggest part?) is about self-expression; creative expression... technique/skills... making 'art'.

Most people dont write or graf to convert others to their world view or ideology, they do it to express themselves, and yes - sometimes that entails an expressions of said individuals politics, but graf itself is not about inspiring the aphormous 'masses' to embrace the red light of marxism or anarchism or whatever. That doesn't mean explicitly political graf is ideologically driven bollocks, 'half' or not 'real' graf, its just another type - but its not the type, and its certainly not superior in any way. Least of when its proponents would place it high on a pedestal and shit on everything else... all the way producing work roughly composed of... dripping, over-sprayed abstract slogans in print style (coz cursive is too hard!!)... the audacity of it.

But who knows? Maybe if you dropped the snobbery and hung with writers, practiced, learned some shit and produced dope propaganda pieces you might connect more with people, coz your styles not gonna develop in the communist ghetto - but whatever... maybe your're happy with childs-play political scribble... oooooooooh!

razboz
14th April 2007, 10:28
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 05:29 am
many people can scribble on walls, we need graffiti that speaks to the masses. Imagine what kind of impact it would have on you if on the streets instead of seeing "hype" and "Ash" you saw "No war but Class War" and "Workers of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains" everywhere you went
Its people like you who give graffing a bad name.

Sugar Hill Kevis
14th April 2007, 13:58
This is what graffiti is about

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6392/415147136638d8ecf9bhj4.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6685/415147121e789fdbfbelo8.jpg

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7240/415159590eb70ffd4edcq7.jpg

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/6245/415166068d2cb81136cpn4.jpg

see more: http://www.fraudwasteabuse.com/2007/03/inc...-york-city.html (http://www.fraudwasteabuse.com/2007/03/incredible-graffiti-covered-building-5-pointz-in-new-york-city.html)

Furthermore, none of this is really political (from first sight, I'm sure if you analysed every square inch of that building there's probably something political), but I doubt anyone will say that detriments from how beautiful it is..

antipopdude
14th April 2007, 14:32
I like grafiti if it's done properly, if someone just takes a black marker and writes their name on a window or something its just very frustrating. These walls don't lie (http://www.looptroop.nu/videos/PROMOE_THESEWALLS-HI.wmv) ;)

Black Dagger
14th April 2007, 14:49
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 11:32 pm
I like grafiti if it's done properly, if someone just takes a black marker and writes their name on a window or something its just very frustrating. These walls don't lie (http://www.looptroop.nu/videos/PROMOE_THESEWALLS-HI.wmv) ;)
Eh, someones circumstances dont allow for anything more, be it time, location, mood etc; besides... everyones gotta start somewhere!

antipopdude
14th April 2007, 15:11
Well in my town, there's no real grafiti, just ppl writing their nicknames with markers everywhere, and it's just so meaningless in my oppinion.

Red October
14th April 2007, 16:01
im working on my freehand skills. im still not very good, but im better than i was a few weeks ago. i've lined up a bunch of places i want to paint, but im waiting until i can practice more to hit those. i dont really care if the graffiti is political or not, though when i see something political it makes me pretty happy. i prefer to do political graffiti, but i dont like to just write random slogans in shitty looking letters. i believe the graffiti still needs to be creative and beautiful too, other wise it doesnt look good and people wont be interested in it, they'll just blame it on "foolish teenagers".

Black Dagger
14th April 2007, 16:25
On honing your writing skills, those places you've lined up to paint - are these places where you're gonna practice or places where you're hoping to put up pieces? (both?)

Either or its not a big deal, ive got a gradient i spose, some places are practice only... so i dont mind if i fuck up, other places are 'marquee' - where everythings gotta be as a tight as possible.

Its good to have at least a couple of practice spots sus'd - places where there's a lot of wall space, little to no people, a place where you can spray in relative peace - my favourite spot is under this highway where i live... i can just mess around with colours, styles, try out shit... take things way beyond what id risk on a more public space, ya know? If you dont have places like that already you should totally scout for some they definately help developing your talent (but so does just being gutsy and spraying up in public!)

Red October
14th April 2007, 16:30
there's a legal graffiti area where i practice and i found a great area by some train tracks where i can practice my stuff. there are some really nice public spots i want to do eventually, but i dont feel like im skilled enough to put up a decent piece there. and some spots are filled with really awsome stuff, so i dont think im skilled enough to paint next to that awsome stuff. it would look like absolute shit compared to that.

Black Dagger
14th April 2007, 16:37
Legal graf ay? Where's the fun in that?! :D

You sound like you're sorted which is cool, im kinda not looking forward to moving in a few months ay, i'll have to scout a whole new neighbourhood. Right now i can just go into town, hang with me mates, spark it up, go on missions... everything is so well organised and all within walking/riding distance :P

And yeah, i'll feel ya on 'too skilled for me' places :lol:

Red October
14th April 2007, 17:48
i have alot of good spots within walking distance, but the problem is that many of them are in places that have fairly heavy police patrolling. most bystanders dont give a shit about what we do, especially down in the area around the train tracks. but the cops will do something so we have to be really careful about being seen. ill try to post pictures of my most recent piece when i can take some, but it doesnt look to great. we did it in daylight and we had to rush so we could get out by the time it got dark, so its pretty drippy. i also didnt have proper caps, though im starting to understand how important those are.

Dante666
7th June 2007, 04:25
sry didn't read the end of the thread but as long as we are posting graff I thought I would put my own input in http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/666XDanteX666/jesusjuice.jpg and graff in itself is a protest against capitalism. Its a protest against ownership and the elitism of the art world. Also someone needs to start a black book thread so we can all show off some peices.

Edit: the real trick to getting good is to practice like hell and find other writers I just started hanging out with all these writers in my town and its amazing how well I improved. Unfortunately I have yet to go out painting but I will soon probably. Hand styles and throw ups are good starters. Start simple and work your way up to the hard stuff I know how cool wild styles look but you need decent letter structure first.

Organic Revolution
7th June 2007, 04:37
Graffiti is inherently political because it is a battle against capital and gentrification.

"Also someone needs to start a black book thread so we can all show off some peices."

Worst idea ever. Im am still sitting on probation for graffiti and piecing. NO NO NO!

OneBrickOneVoice
7th June 2007, 04:44
and graff in itself is a protest against capitalism.

very true, but like a riot it needs to be unleashed through a conscious force. In the case of the riot a revolutionary vanguard. In the case of Graffiti, politically conscious graffiti. No doubt the pictures posted here are beautiful. Living in NYC I have seen the first and last ones Kevis posted and many others just as if not more elaborate and talented. But what it comes down too is imagine what you'd think if it was art that was consciously attacking capitalism. If that building had a scene demonstrating the exploitation of the proletariat and the oppression of black people rather than spiderman lol.

which doctor
7th June 2007, 04:45
Originally posted by Red October+April 13, 2007 08:01 pm--> (Red October @ April 13, 2007 08:01 pm)
[email protected] 13, 2007 06:37 pm
wait RO do you do political graffiti or just tags?
political graffiti [/b]
I'm just curious, what kind of political graffiti do you do?

Is it just slogans or paintings or what?

OneBrickOneVoice
9th June 2007, 07:12
Originally posted by bleeding gums [email protected] 14, 2007 08:06 am



Graf does not equal 'scribble on walls' - it takes ability to write well, how bout you go get a can and hit the streets, i guarantee your piece will be shit -> it takes practice, time.... experience, like any art, dismissing all writing as 'scribble' is ridiculous/ignorant.

um i do, and I'm not talking about pieces, I'm talking about tags. I used to get up alot but then I realized it serves no purpose. Graffiti should be revolutionary advertisement in a way for us communists


There is such a thing as art you know? As distinct from abstract political propaganda.

yeah and they can be interwined. But pieces take skill. Some people would prefer to just vandalize coporate property with inspirational slogans.




Not every piece has to be politically motivated, sometimes people write, put up pieces etc. as a form of artistic expression, creativity in action and out there for people to see - and there's nothing wrong with that, it's vital to the survival and growth of graf culture, and street art generally.

That said, i've probably done more political tagging than anyone in this thread... i dont say that to boast, but to make this point... i

I know that. But we can't be completely individually free until we are collectively free, we do that by directly creating public opinion for revolution in any way we can. If that means political tagging then yeah.

Don't get me wrong I think murals and pieces are beautiful, and if that's your thing than do it because it is resistance to capitalism, but at the same time, if you tag, make it have a meaning. Here in NYC the amount of mindless tagging there is... and the potential that these artists have to do something is a big contradiction. Also, revolutionary leftist artists should mix the two categories.

And you think you've done more tagging but you have no idea. I don't go out without stickers, paintpens, and spray paint. Even when I go to the corner to buy toothepaste or whateva, I take things with me.


This is a pretty naive POV IMO, sure some people will take something from slogans like that, but a lot of people wont care or understand what they mean, and others will be alienated by their obscurity of their militancy - you dont connect with people by yelling militant slogans at them (or writing them as the case may be).

bold liberating slogans have a better chance of reaching the masses then mindless tags and even beautiful pieces. Why? Because they don't have any consciousness too them.


Most people dont write or graf to convert others to their world view or ideology, they do it to express themselves, and yes - sometimes that entails an expressions of said individuals politics, but graf itself is not about inspiring the aphormous 'masses' to embrace the red light of marxism or anarchism or whatever. That doesn't mean explicitly political graf is ideologically driven bollocks, 'half' or not 'real' graf, its just another type - but its not the type, and its certainly not superior in any way. Least of when its proponents would place it high on a pedestal and shit on everything else... all the way producing work roughly composed of... dripping, over-sprayed abstract slogans in print style (coz cursive is too hard!!)... the audacity of it.


I'm not a lifestylist. Graffiti is what it is defined as, defacing property, preferably private. I don't have time to do pieces, its just not my thing.


But who knows? Maybe if you dropped the snobbery and hung with writers, practiced, learned some shit and produced dope propaganda pieces you might connect more with people, coz your styles not gonna develop in the communist ghetto - but whatever... maybe your're happy with childs-play political scribble... oooooooooh!

what the fuck is wrong with you? how do you know I don't? your lifestylist shit used to be what I obsessed over, but its not my self expression my expression comes through conducting mass line and through doing what it takes to get out revolution I guess, lifestylist graffiti is just not it.

Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg
17th June 2007, 16:12
A question:


Are you for permenant vandalisation of personal or public property?

If so then why? One inflicting his, often stupid, opinion on others...."FUCK OF POLISH SCUM" is an example