Utopian socialism

[Pirate Utopian]

I have some questions concerning utopian socialism.

was Karl Marx seen as the first non-utopian socialist?
How would utopian socialism work?, I know it wouldnt noting it's utopian but how the theorists of it say it would?

Thanks for your anwsers

[RGacky3]

Most utopian socialists were socialists who thought the way to make a socialsit society was to plan it out, like planned communities, where people would live in harmony.

Marx called them Utopian because they were trying to design the perfect society, generally they did'nt concentrate on things like class struggle or revolution or worker control, but rather designing making egalitarian societies.

Karl Marx was'nt the first non Utopian Socialist, but I think he was the first one that wrote a lot about it.

[Ander]

Marx was certainly not the first utopian socialist, he was not one at all!

Utopian socialists are those who had great ideas for perfect socialist societies, but had no ideas on how to achieve said societies. The most prominent of these utopians, which are mentioned in the Communist Manifesto, are Fourier, Robert Owen, and Saint-Simon.

[TheGreenWeeWee]

Experimenting is not such a bad idea since valuable information would be obtained in a social trial. Robert Owens was the first person to develope Labor Time Vouchers (TLV). Marx did criticise Owens for what he did being that it did not benefit society as a whole. However, Marx did mention the the use TLV in the Critique of the Gotha Programme. I often wonder if one sucessful social experiment would actually get workers attention that they would want to implement it into society being more of a benefit than capitalism.

[Janus]

Marx was certainly not the first utopian socialist, he was not one at all!
That's not what BM was asking.


was Karl Marx seen as the first non-utopian socialist?
Marx and Engels coined the term utopian socialism in order to differentiate previous socialist theories with their scientific socialism.


How would utopian socialism work?
Look up Owen and Fourier's theories as well as the communes either directly built by them or inspired by them.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

Kropotkin once mentioned that the problem with the planned utopian colonies and communes was the inhabitants lived too much like family members and not as amiable neighbours or co-workers. Because it can be hard for families to get along under the best of circumstances.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 12, 2007 07:04 pm
How would utopian socialism work?
I've heard people say that Pol-Potism is utopian socialism in practice

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ And we all know how that douche-bag's insane and murderous experiment turned out, don't we? :rolleyes:

[Janus]

It was supposed to be agrarian/utopian socialism in theory but in practice, it wasn't even socialism.

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 07:39 pm

Marx was certainly not the first utopian socialist, he was not one at all!
That's not what BM was asking.
Sorry about that, I misread it!

[grove street]

Previous socialists promised a perfect society, Marx on the other hand promised nothing, but stated that it could be possible to create a more equal society.

While other socialists went into great depths to promote how wonderful life in their new socities will be, Marx on the other hand said that a society where the means of production is communal owned would lead to more free time.

One persons dream of Utopia could just as eaisly be anothers nightmare Dystopia. Atleast with Marx's dream of more free time, means I've got more time to do things I want/like, which sure as hell beats holding hands in a giant circle and singing Kumbai ect.

[Hiero]

I think it can more accuratly contrasted as Utopian Socialist promoting a socialist society for the good will of humanity. Marxism on the other hand, is scientific socialism and looks at history through dialectical materialism and came to the realisation of class struggle over the means of production as the prime motivator in creating a new society. Socialism is an outcome of inevitable class war, rather then the creation of the good will of humanity.

Here is Engels work on Socialism: Scientific Socialism. (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm)