Is Chivalry Sexist?

[Tommy-K]

One of my Sociology teachers was telling us how he once was on a train and saw a woman struggling to get her bag off the overhead luggage rack. He got it down for her, and she ripped into him for being sexist. Similar things have happened when men hold doors open for women etc.

Now I think 'chivalry' is sexist and undermines women, making them appear more 'vulnerable'. However, I believe the example I gave (and the example of men holding doors open for women) is just common courtesy, and should be applauded rather than chastised. Anyone would hold doors open for anyone, it's just polite.

What are your thoughts?

[Jazzratt]

"Chivalry" itself is sexist, doing things because of someone's sex is just silliness. Helping someone, regardless of who they are, that is obviously struggling as in your first example is just a nice thing to do. Holding open a door, again regardless of who is coming through (as I do quite a lot) isn't sexist - but if you only do it because a woman is coming then at some level it seems you think women incapable of opening the door for themselves.

[Sir_No_Sir]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 01:00 pm
"Chivalry" itself is sexist, doing things because of someone's sex is just silliness. Helping someone, regardless of who they are, that is obviously struggling as in your first example is just a nice thing to do. Holding open a door, again regardless of who is coming through (as I do quite a lot) isn't sexist - but if you only do it because a woman is coming then at some level it seems you think women incapable of opening the door for themselves.
Yeah. That woman was pretty ridicolous in her charge of sexism.

[Tommy-K]

Originally posted by Sir_No_Sir+April 12, 2007 01:45 pm--> (Sir_No_Sir @ April 12, 2007 01:45 pm)
[email protected] 12, 2007 01:00 pm
"Chivalry" itself is sexist, doing things because of someone's sex is just silliness. Helping someone, regardless of who they are, that is obviously struggling as in your first example is just a nice thing to do. Holding open a door, again regardless of who is coming through (as I do quite a lot) isn't sexist - but if you only do it because a woman is coming then at some level it seems you think women incapable of opening the door for themselves.
Yeah. That woman was pretty ridicolous in her charge of sexism. [/b]
That's what I thought. Chivalry is clearly sexist, but common courtesy is just polite.

The difficulty comes in where people distinguish between the two. It can be a bit of a grey area.

[Goatse]

Well the example in the original post was obviously just someone being friendly - the woman was obviously insecure and impolite. Chivalry does have sexist roots but it shouldn't really offend someone. The woman would have been offended if the man had done it because she was female or if he'd just done it to be friendly - she'd have seen it as sexism either way. Most girls I know see it as politeness and not sexism whenever I do anything like that.

[Robo the Hobo]

You cant realy complain about people being sexists when they are 'chivalrous.' Although the notion is deaply sexist, that is just a 'problem' with society depending on your oppinions. Over time this may and should change, but it is unfair to get anoid by it if you are struggling, in which case someone should help you no matter age gender sex ect.

[RGacky3]

of coarse its not sexist at all. Women and Men are different, and the way the sexes view each other are different, and the culture of a man being more courtious and thoughtful to a lady is somewhat natural.

I don't think the custom came from men thinking woman cannot help themselves I think its more the idea of the man trying to win over the favor of the lady.

I've never had a woman complain of chivalry :P.

[Tiparith]

Chivalry is sexist in its roots, I do agree. However currently I quite often see a women help a man with a simple task but that is still defeating the man. After the women shows the man what he was doing wrong she might say something like "its okay your just a man". Now I live in a house where this is commonly the case. And I think if men have to be courteous but not sexist then women have to do the same.

[KC]

I wouldn't exactly call it sexist, but it is based on the existence of different gender roles. It doesn't cause discrimination or anything like that against women, though. And if you're being chivalrous to a woman for a different reason besides the fact that she's a woman, then it's not at all.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Chivalrous behavior doesn't always have to be sexist...it depends on the context.

I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with helping out...that's an instinct for any good, useful, productive member of a society.

Chivalry is something which is "natural" for men in a lot of societies. So if women started getting angry at every display of chivalrous behavior, life could get a little difficult...or at least quite rude. :)

Now as for certain forms of chivalry, where men go out of their way to "protect" or "assist" women, I think those are often sexist.

So it depends on the context.

[redcannon]

that chick on the train was being a *****. being polite and being sexist are two entirely different things. yes, at its core, chivalry is sexist, but there are bigger acts of sexism in the world today that we need to pay attention too.

[Demogorgon]

Well the old fashioned chivilry stuff is sexist, but good manners aren't. It is very rude to let a door shut in someones face so I always hold it open for whoever is coming through behind me for example. I would never do the silly old fashioned thing of going up and specifically opening a door for a woman though, that isn't right.

As for the example of the guy in the train. Well giving someone a hand isn't sexist. It's just polite. However I think we should remember that unasked for help can come across as rude. You should always ask "would you like a hand?" rather than just barging in and doing it.

[Political_Chucky]

What are your guy's thoughts about things that really don't "help" a woman, such as standing when a woman leaves the table or watever? I don't necessarily do it, but I mean, I don't think Chivalry is that big of a deal in my opinion. I am naturally good mannered and really, being chivalrous in today's society isn't as evident as it was back then. I mean, what man really goes out of his way to do things just for random women? Its just the situation your in... if shes my girl, of course i'm going to do all those things however because i'm not a jerk ;)

[Spirit of Spartacus]

What are you guy's thoughts about things that really don't "help" a woman, such as standing when a woman leaves the table or watever?


Huh? People actually do that?! :huh:

[counterblast]

Chivilry is only sexist if it is sexually exclusive.

[Morag]

If someone doesn't hold the door for me, they'll get a dirty look, regardless of whether they're a man or a woman. It doesn't matter if I'm a woman, good manners and courtesy to others make society bearable. If we didn't go out of our way to be pleasant and help others, we'd all be miserable little shits. Even if your taught to behave a certain way around women, if it's to show respect- standing when they arrive, holding a door- is okay. I mean, I doubt there is anyone in the world who thinks, or ever did think, that a normal, healthy woman is incapable of opening a door. But, if you can wait a moment and hold the door for them, well, that's just respectful courtesy.

Some women are different, and can't stand it. But, I think that's their problem, not the person who goes out of their way to be nice to someone, regardless of their reason. Of course, there are other considerations. Perhaps the woman was in bad mood that day; perhaps she is an insecure person. There are a lot of things that can cause snappishness in a person, male or female.

[Lynx]

Originally posted by Spirit of [email protected] 12, 2007 08:30 pm

What are you guy's thoughts about things that really don't "help" a woman, such as standing when a woman leaves the table or watever?


Huh? People actually do that?! :huh:
I've seen it in the movies, usually in a fancy restaurant setting or somewhere 'upscale'. Shows you're a gentleman :rolleyes:

[Mujer Libre]

At my brother's old school, the boys were expected to stand whenever a 'lady' walked past, or into the room. :lol:
Its obviously ludicrous and based on Victorian ideas about the 'sensibility' of women. Funny though.

I'm assuming that's changed now that the school is co-ed.


Originally posted by counterblast
Chivilry is only sexist if it is sexually exclusive.
Chivalry is inherently gendered (and classed) though. It's something 'gentleman' did for 'ladies.' Besides which, it often included unnecessary bullshit like the standing thing. I think we should all stick to plain old politeness.

[Sniper of Capitalism]

How do we know the guy who helped the women didn't do so because he was taller and stronger than her, and therefore more capable of the task at hand? I'm sure a tall woman who was physically strong would have offered her assistance too.

Another thing to consider is how deeply ingrained chivalry is in society. To such a degree that most men have probably never asked if it is sexist?

My first post, yay :lol:

[Severian]

Well, did he ask first if she wanted help?

[xskater11x]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 05:47 am
Well, did he ask first if she wanted help?
No, he would not, because society teaches it as proper manners to help someone that needs help, and then human opinion takes over and undermines the whole purpose by having them decide for themselves who needs help and is not capable of certain tasks.

Chivalry isn't necessarily sexist, though it can be taken that way since, as Mujer Libre said it is inheritly gendered and classed, but it is more opinion on who is capable of certain tasks, and who deserves what things done for them, that would make it sexist though.

[Angry Young Man]

Yay fertile ground fot the seeds of ranting!

I would do the same for a bloke. Chivalry seems to imply sexism, but isn't necessarily. Your Soc. teacher should have told the woman to fuck herself and shout out loud that she had a bomb.

Wait did I say that in earnest?