christain charities - imperialism or helping

[chomsky student]

would you say christain charities like WORLD VISION and CHIRSTAIN AID ABROAD are helping the course of the down trodden ppl of the world or just spreading bogus hope. therefore tieing the third world to the appron strings of the rich first world countries ie US and UK.

i am unsure if this because i think third world ppl do need some help but spreading the word of the so called lord while giving out food parcels just seems underhanded and a bit of a bribe.

i would love to hear your opinions

[Mazdak]

I agree with VI Leninon this. The more desparate the poor and oppressed become, the more openness they will be to leftist ideas and revolution.

Not that i hate the poor, but it is for the revolution. Starving, desparate troops always fight harder then well fed troops with all the advantages on their side.

[mentalbunny]

hmm, I guess Christrian charities have theri draw-backs, but they are better than no charities.

[Mazdak]

On the contrary, charities appease the oppressed masses, halting them from taking action against the government. Contributing to them is helping capitalism survive.

[Lardlad95]

My novel that I'm writing talks about how the revolution becomes more likely as the population grows poorer.

and thats true because the people grow disatisfied with the government that has failed them.

And while i want the revolution to come either mentally or physically

allowing people to suffer is sadistic

I'm not gonna deny someone aid because it will help the revolution

when that kid starves he can't fight

a living comrade is better than a dead one

[Mazdak]

You don't have to starve them, the goverment does it already.

And You are incorrect. Napoleon's troops were so much more reliable because they did not know when their next meal was coming, while the Prussian/Austrians would eat whether they won or lost.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:49 am on Oct. 13, 2002
You don't have to starve them, the goverment does it already.

And You are incorrect. Napoleon's troops were so much more reliable because they did not know when their next meal was coming, while the Prussian/Austrians would eat whether they won or lost.

but they weren't dead

teh people I'm talking about eat bad food if at all

and drink contaminated water

not to mention the children don't have medical care

these aren't soldiers mazdak the are children

would you really pistol whip a four year old?

[MJM]

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:57 pm on Oct. 13, 2002
On the contrary, charities appease the oppressed masses, halting them from taking action against the government. Contributing to them is helping capitalism survive.


I agree.
The charities help the children, and the adults can die. If the children are dying, then the adults will revolt.
In the long term we all know a revolution will save more lives than CCF or World Vision don't we?
If we don't believe this then why are we here and not promoting and discussing the merits of xian charities.
The charities feed children in places like nigeria, while the capis steal the natural resources from under the nose of the people.
If the people were so utterly disenfranchised they would revolt, if they're give hope for their children they will conform. Another example of the working class subsidising the capitalist system.

[man in the red suit]

Mazdak, no offesnse but sometimes times I wonder if you you world revolves around revolution. You have to focus on the problem at hand. I think that the christian aids are helpfulbut of course maintain their drawbacks but they feed the children nonetheless. I think lardlad said it perfectly when he asked if you would pistol whip a four year old. He makes a point in a clever way. Revolution is not always a possible or even beneficial solution. I personally don't see how a revolution will solve anything at all in Nairobi or Ethiopia where these kids are starving. Now you have africans using all the turnips they have to eat, to try to fight a revolution. Sometimes you have to look for help in other ways. These christaid aid organizations are extremey beneficial imo.a revolution might accomplish something I suppose, but you need soldiers to be living like lardlad said though. But on the otherhand Mazdak, I can see where you are coming from. By giving children food, you are putting the revolutionary spirit within the people at ease. you are in a sense, suppressing it. By giving them food you are sort of spoiling them and liquidating the need for a revolution as you are supplying them with food. But in this scenario I think that it is 100 times more important to feed the people rather than piss them off and encourage them to try to attempt a revolution which is doomed to failure.

[mentalbunny]

Quote: from MJM on 5:22 am on Oct. 13, 2002

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:57 pm on Oct. 13, 2002
On the contrary, charities appease the oppressed masses, halting them from taking action against the government. Contributing to them is helping capitalism survive.


I agree.
The charities help the children, and the adults can die. If the children are dying, then the adults will revolt.
In the long term we all know a revolution will save more lives than CCF or World Vision don't we?
If we don't believe this then why are we here and not promoting and discussing the merits of xian charities.
The charities feed children in places like nigeria, while the capis steal the natural resources from under the nose of the people.
If the people were so utterly disenfranchised they would revolt, if they're give hope for their children they will conform. Another example of the working class subsidising the capitalist system.


At my school (see sig) there are several rich nigerians, one of which (a tribal princess and in the top 2 or 3% of the country) is in my dorm. She doesn't ahve a clue what it is like for the rest of her country, she's been brought up to be blind to the poverty and I don't blame her for her selfishness, I blame her culture, if you can call it that. She doesn't understadn anything aobut other people suffering, if you say you aren't happy she doesn't quite understand. I have not tried to explain to her, I don't think she could cope with the culture shock of it all.

I know that charitiy work may dleay the "revolution" but do you not agree that there are better ways to revolt that violently. Charities like Oxfam can raise living standards, make people more equal slowly, and with this prper planning the revolution has a better basis. At the moment these people are too weak with hunger and disease to revolt in the way you are thinking of, I think we should look after humanity before we think about revolution.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 10:56 am on Oct. 13, 2002

Quote: from MJM on 5:22 am on Oct. 13, 2002

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:57 pm on Oct. 13, 2002
On the contrary, charities appease the oppressed masses, halting them from taking action against the government. Contributing to them is helping capitalism survive.


I agree.
The charities help the children, and the adults can die. If the children are dying, then the adults will revolt.
In the long term we all know a revolution will save more lives than CCF or World Vision don't we?
If we don't believe this then why are we here and not promoting and discussing the merits of xian charities.
The charities feed children in places like nigeria, while the capis steal the natural resources from under the nose of the people.
If the people were so utterly disenfranchised they would revolt, if they're give hope for their children they will conform. Another example of the working class subsidising the capitalist system.


At my school (see sig) there are several rich nigerians, one of which (a tribal princess and in the top 2 or 3% of the country) is in my dorm. She doesn't ahve a clue what it is like for the rest of her country, she's been brought up to be blind to the poverty and I don't blame her for her selfishness, I blame her culture, if you can call it that. She doesn't understadn anything aobut other people suffering, if you say you aren't happy she doesn't quite understand. I have not tried to explain to her, I don't think she could cope with the culture shock of it all.

I know that charitiy work may dleay the "revolution" but do you not agree that there are better ways to revolt that violently. Charities like Oxfam can raise living standards, make people more equal slowly, and with this prper planning the revolution has a better basis. At the moment these people are too weak with hunger and disease to revolt in the way you are thinking of, I think we should look after humanity before we think about revolution.


You have to explain it to her, there is no excuse for ignorance or to let ignorance continue

also a nigerian princess? If she pretty...hook me up with her

[Frances of Assisi]

Not giving to charities!! The Lord gave you free will, but i feel he never should have, the way you have all become slaves of Satan. Our charities are helping millions convert and open their eyes to God. We feed them, teach them and give them a chance to go to heaven. All you communists want is power and to control the poor yourselves. God will never let you win.

[new democracy]

shit!!!! a christian fundamentalist!!!

[MJM]

Quote: from Frances of Assisi on 9:47 am on Oct. 14, 2002
Not giving to charities!!

Dumb fuck.
I never said that. Just not xian ones , charity can exist without fairy tales. Progressive charities are fine.
The problems I have are with the ones who prevent or delay social change, or worse yet have an agenda to change the revolutionary spirit into a hope for eternal life that doesn't exist, thereby creating conformity.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Frances of Assisi on 9:47 pm on Oct. 13, 2002
Not giving to charities!! The Lord gave you free will, but i feel he never should have, the way you have all become slaves of Satan. Our charities are helping millions convert and open their eyes to God. We feed them, teach them and give them a chance to go to heaven. All you communists want is power and to control the poor yourselves. God will never let you win.


do you think God hates us? I thought God didn't hate?

Do you think God wants you to judge us? I thought only God could judge?

You don't know me

you don't know anyone on here


don't tell me I'm a slave of Satan.

Your the slave of Satan, pointing your finger and judging, having no open mind. Forcing religion down peoples throats.

If people truly love GOd they will come to him of their own will not by your voice.

DOn't pretend to be a prophet or a messenger cuz you are doing a horrible job.

not to mention I'm a socialsit alot of people are and we aren't communist

there are some but I'm not

you pseudo prophet, Jerry Falwell loving moron

[Frances of Assisi]

Heathen! God has all powers, he giveth and he taketh away. He has the power to destroy us all. He hates none, but those who reject him must burn in eternal hellfire!

[vox]

"The Lord gave you free will, but i feel he never should have..."

Umm, c'mon folks. This isn't a real poster, I think, just someone having a spot of fun. After all, Christians don't second-guess God.

vox

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Frances of Assisi on 2:18 am on Oct. 14, 2002
Heathen! God has all powers, he giveth and he taketh away. He has the power to destroy us all. He hates none, but those who reject him must burn in eternal hellfire!


hellfire is a term used in teh Quran..a muslim book so are you muslim or christian...

second...your a moron aren't you?

[Mazdak]

It took youn all long enough to figure out. Not the quickest bunch are we?

[man in the red suit]

i figured it out

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:50 am on Oct. 14, 2002
It took youn all long enough to figure out. Not the quickest bunch are we?


Unlike you i try to find the best in people...well i started on a useless journey didn't I?

[Mazdak]

More or less

[vox]

Well, Mazdak, it was the first time I looked at the thread, so I guess I'm pretty damn quick. Yep.

But then, Bush is a genius next to you.

vox

[LeninCCCP]

back to the subject lardlad95 no disrespect but if a four year old is pointing an Uzi at your head the least you can do is pistol whip him and if he's smart he'll stay down. Im not saying we sould pistol whip children for fun thats just wrong.

[LeninCCCP]

Frances of Assisi what the hell is your avatar? It looks like Nazi insignia but i could be wrong... And by the way your not the only one who posts non sequedor religious comments on a socialist forum. So if you think your opinion is making a difference its not we just ignore you and laugh at your stupidity. And if you dont know MaxB yet, you and him sould get along fine cause he is a religious zealot too.

[IHP]

leninCCCP, no offense mate, but did you read any of the thread after the original religious preachings? i think you should, things might be a bit clearer:)

i dont know about those kind of charities, i dont know how much money actually ends up with the intended targets, i dont want the kids to be even further exploited, i prefer world vision.

--IHP

[IHP]

also, speaking of funding and such. i was taught in my international trade class, that money "lent" to developing countries, that they have to pay back $2.60 for every $1 borrowed. and they are forced to to farm what they are instructed to. eg, the IMF lends a nation money. the country then has to farm cotten and tobacco to export. not primary products such as wheat and cattle, necessary to sustain life.

has anyone else heard of such a disgusting exploitation?

--IHP

[Mazdak]

The avatar was a stained glass window LeninCCCP. got it off a religious site.

Vox- ... thanks... i guess.

[Politrickian]

ALL HAIL ANTI, FOR HE IS GOD WITH A CAPITOL "G"!!!!!

Sorry... Just had to do that.

Don't ask questions, please.

[Panamarisen]

Countries that are under external or internal dictatorships or corruption, turning miserable the lives of their population, need some kind of change, some kind of Revolution.
But at the same time, we can´t be deaf at the vital necessities its people have today. It´s a matter of life or dead in too many cases..., and it just can´t wait to be solved.
Unfortunately, in too many cases religious NGOs are the only ones able or wanting to help, and I say unfortunately because at the same time they try to change the culture and beliefs of the people they are aiding.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from LeninCCCP on 6:03 am on Oct. 14, 2002
back to the subject lardlad95 no disrespect but if a four year old is pointing an Uzi at your head the least you can do is pistol whip him and if he's smart he'll stay down. Im not saying we sould pistol whip children for fun thats just wrong.


I can see what you mean there

but until that Uzi is pointed at my head I'ma pick the kid up and hold him down until I find some restraining cuffs or something