Were you brought up religious?

[Tommy-K]

Just interested. I won't tell you what I'm trying to find out as it may bias your vote. I just want to know how people have adopted their religion (if at all).

I personally have been brought up in a religious family but remain an atheist.

[Tommy-K]

Please post what you voted aswell! And we shall discuss.

[Demogorgon]

A bit. My Mum is religious and my Dad isn't. So I had the balance there. I was raised Catholic, but not strictly. I left that behind a few years ago. My Mum was a bit dissapointed but it hasn't really caused any trouble

[yulives]

Well, I wasnt raised in a religious family, and I am not religious myself. I think that its the responsibility of parents not to indoctrinise the child, while the child is still growing up, because usualy the parents have a very big influence on the child. Also, one thing that Im very much against is baptising children/babies/teenagers that are still minors. By doing that, parents in a sense choose the religion for their child, and that is basicly a human rights violation, although many right wingers claim that it has to be allowed because of the "traditional values".

[Jazzratt]

Thoroughbred atheist.

[Tommy-K]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 01:38 pm
Well, I wasnt raised in a religious family, and I am not religious myself. I think that its the responsibility of parents not to indoctrinise the child, while the child is still growing up, because usualy the parents have a very big influence on the child. Also, one thing that Im very much against is baptising children/babies/teenagers that are still minors. By doing that, parents in a sense choose the religion for their child, and that is basicly a human rights violation, although many right wingers claim that it has to be allowed because of the "traditional values".
I agree. A lot of people I know who are religious were brought up in religious familes. You have to wonder whether they would still be religious if they had not been brought up religiously.

[ichneumon]

they tried to make me go to church. as soon as i realized what they were talking about and that the expected me to take it for real, i was so upset that i had to believe in that while i wasn't allowed to believe in the Superfriends, which seemed much more likely to me, i started pitching this Damien type fits every sunday morning....

eventually, i stopped being an atheists. now my parents wouldn't even recognize my religion, you don't really have a category for that.

[Black Dagger]

Ja, my dad is a practicing catholic :'(

[yulives]

Originally posted by Tommy-K+April 07, 2007 01:44 pm--> (Tommy-K @ April 07, 2007 01:44 pm)
[email protected] 07, 2007 01:38 pm
Well, I wasnt raised in a religious family, and I am not religious myself. I think that its the responsibility of parents not to indoctrinise the child, while the child is still growing up, because usualy the parents have a very big influence on the child. Also, one thing that Im very much against is baptising children/babies/teenagers that are still minors. By doing that, parents in a sense choose the religion for their child, and that is basicly a human rights violation, although many right wingers claim that it has to be allowed because of the "traditional values".
I agree. A lot of people I know who are religious were brought up in religious familes. You have to wonder whether they would still be religious if they had not been brought up religiously. [/b]
Very few, if you ask me. I think that the propaganda about christian values that is being enforced by the church is an attempt to try and get more people into religion, especialy because the number of believers has been rapidly decreasing over the last few decades. And one way to get more believers is encouraging parents to raise their children to become believers.

[seraphim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 01:39 pm
Thoroughbred atheist.
Me too, my parents always said I should make my own mind up and look where that ended up ;)

[razboz]

I dont think i even spoke to somone who beleived in god until i was about 13. I am an atheist through and through.

[wtfm8lol]

i was baptized, sent to a catholic school for 9 years, confirmed (not of my own choosing, but more through bribery and threats of punishment), and forced to go to church until i was 15 years old. i dont think there was ever a point where i actually understood what god was supposed to be and believed in it.

[Janus]

No, I was raised up mostly atheist though I did visit a couple of Buddhist and Taoist temples when I was young.

[Political_Chucky]

Raised a Catholic, went to catechism, and have gotten up to my first communion, but I am an athiest as of around January. My parents are both catholics even though my dad is not as much. My mom is beginning to see my political side, but doesn't know much about my athieism, and I don't really want to tell her.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

My parents tended to pity those with serious religious belief. I myself am a strident atheist.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

An ex-drug addict who claimed that God helped him get better came to my college and the guy was so charismatic I started to question my (not very strong at the time) atheism. When I told my dad he said "Did you get over it?" I did.

[RedLenin]

I was raised Catholic. I never believed a word of it, I always asked questions, and I found the moralism to be repulsive. I became at atheist at age 11 and came out about it to my family about two years ago, at age 14.

[Eleutherios]

My mother comes from a Catholic family, and my father from a Protestant one (his mother is now a minister). However, for some reason, they never gave us kids any religious teaching. They taught us to believe in God, and we had some vague idea that Jesus was some admirable divine figure from the ancient past, but beyond that we really weren't religious at all. We never went to church except rarely for some holiday gathering with the extended family, and although we self-identified as Christians we really had no clue what Christianity was about. We didn't know the story of Jesus, or the idea of the Trinity, or the concepts of sin and salvation. We didn't pray, we didn't read scripture, and we only made passing references to God without actually discussing any theological ideas. Our "Christianity" was more a label of tradition than anything else, a tradition that we didn't understand and weren't interested in in the slightest.

Sometime when I was 13 or 14, I decided the idea of souls didn't make any sense given what I knew about the brain, which seems to account for the functions of the mind, and evolution, which has strange implications for the soul hypothesis (i.e. that one of our soulless ancestors had a child with a soul, or that all living things have souls including bacteria). The idea that God exists fell shortly afterwards. I reasoned that if we're just matter and energy moving through spacetime according to the laws of physics, there is no reason to suppose that anything of a non-physical "spiritual" nature exists, and from then on I've been an atheist.

I also have to mention that the works of Carl Sagan really helped me along in my path towards atheism. I was always a scientifically curious child and he seemed to explain eloquently how our universe follows natural law and why skeptical thinking is important for evaluating claims about the world. It was from him that I learned the basics of cosmology, evolution, and neurology, without which I could very well have continued to lean on the God hypothesis to explain my existence. Ever since my parents gave me my copy of Cosmos, he has been my favorite author of all time. His passion for science and his eloquent poetic writing style are just unbeatable.

I have recently discovered that my brother and my sister are also atheists, which is great news. Luckily we were able to escape the onslaught of religious dogma that young gullible minds are often subject to in childhood, and we have all grown up to be rational adults regarding these matters. I never even read anything out of the Bible until my late teenage years, when my research into atheism confronted me with that particular mythological work, and by then I was old enough to view it with a critical eye, unlike the religiously indoctrinated child who is under enormous social and familial pressure to conform, and who is ignorant of things like comparative mythology and the history of the Middle East which must be considered when examining the claims of the Bible.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

My answer: No, but I am religious.

[wtfm8lol]

Originally posted by Edric [email protected] 07, 2007 09:37 pm
My answer: No, but I am religious.
damn, you dont even have an excuse. youre one mighty fine example of a retard.

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by wtfm8lol+April 07, 2007 07:31 pm--> (wtfm8lol @ April 07, 2007 07:31 pm)
Edric [email protected] 07, 2007 09:37 pm
My answer: No, but I am religious.
damn, you dont even have an excuse. youre one mighty fine example of a retard. [/b]
Why is it that we attack people for certain beliefs that cause them no real harm? Just because a person may believe in a god, we need to feel as if they have done something wrong? That is really the mature thing to do when you disagree with someone ain't it? Just call someone a "retard" and thats that. I'm not even religious, but shit it offends me as a human being if I am not allowed to believe in a god, or whatever it is without being harassed and being called insults that make the person using them sound stupid as fuck.
I ono, it pisses me off when people cross that line of actually posing an arguement against religion, compared to just throwing around useless insults.

[freakazoid]

Both of my parents are religious and we went to Church just about every Sunday, although I never really cared for it. Infact most of my life I never really cared for going to Church. I have always believed in a God and I labeled myself as a Christian but I never did anything past that. It wasn't until college that I became an anarchist and then I eventually realized that to be a Christian actually meant to also be an anarchist/communist. And then I really started caring more about my faith. I started visiting the website www.jesusradicals.com , I started actually reading my Bible, I started reading other books on the Bible and also anarchy such as C.S. Lewis and Leo Tolstoy, and I also took some classes at college. :D

[Simotix]

I personally think children should not be taken to church for the fact that they are not understanding what they are doing there. It should be up to them when they reach a good age to decided whether or not they want to go.

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 04:29 am
I eventually realized that to be a Christian actually meant to also be an anarchist/communist.
Really? What about all those other Christians who aren't anarchists/communists? Are they just pretending to believe Jesus is the messiah? Whether or not their conception of Jesus' ideals is the same as yours, I don't think it's fair to exclude them from Christianity if they truly believe Jesus is Christ.

In any case, I still don't think that Jesus (or anybody who promotes Mosaic law) can be considered an anarchist or communist.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teach...es/mt05_17.html (http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_the_law_of_moses/mt05_17.html)

[wtfm8lol]

Why is it that we attack people for certain beliefs that cause them no real harm? Just because a person may believe in a god, we need to feel as if they have done something wrong? That is really the mature thing to do when you disagree with someone ain't it? Just call someone a "retard" and thats that. I'm not even religious, but shit it offends me as a human being if I am not allowed to believe in a god, or whatever it is without being harassed and being called insults that make the person using them sound stupid as fuck.
I ono, it pisses me off when people cross that line of actually posing an arguement against religion, compared to just throwing around useless insults.

well, i dont know why most people do it, but i do it because i'm an asshole. and i dont particularly care if ive offended you.

[Goatse]

My mum and dad are both religious, and want me to go back to church but I'm as atheist as it gets.


well, i dont know why most people do it, but i do it because i'm an asshole. and i dont particularly care if ive offended you.

:lol:

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

I was literally forced to go to church until i was about 10.

My parents didn't make me, it was my grandparents.

I dont believe in God these days though.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by wtfm8lol+April 08, 2007 03:31 am--> (wtfm8lol @ April 08, 2007 03:31 am)
Edric [email protected] 07, 2007 09:37 pm
My answer: No, but I am religious.
damn, you dont even have an excuse. youre one mighty fine example of a retard. [/b]
If you weren't such a **** in general I would be complimenting you on this post.

I don't understand how people contract memetic diseases like religion if their parents don't pass them on. It's like wilfully choosing to be an idiot.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Parents refused to say anything other than "you should make up your own mind". I went through a phase at about 5-7 of being a devout christian, and then I discovered that it wasn't the only position you could have. I considered the alternatives, and was pretty much instantly athiest, and more strident than the rest of my family, who are kind of pantheist.

-Alex

[Knight of Cydonia]

:lol: Religion :lol:

religion is like a myth, just as god.....but i'm confused, why it's so many people believe in it. :unsure:

[BurnTheOliveTree]

religion is like a myth, just as god.....but i'm confused, why it's so many people believe in it.

Well religion itself isn't a myth, religions do exist. lol.

It's as Jazzrat said - Memetic disease.

There are lots of factors:

A. Upbringing. Easily most important.

B. Safety blanket. Lots of people just can't handle that there's no one "up there".

C. Confirmation snowball. People ignore contary evidence and emphasise positive.

D. Think that atheism leads to immorality, blah blah blah.

E. Live in an area where not being religious is social suicide. Saudia Arabia, U.S.


But yeah, for some reason, religions are thought to be comforting things. Lots of people genuinely can make themselves believe total horseshit if it makes them feel better.

Although personally I wouldn't find the idea that an invisible deity has written a book and will punish you with hellfire for eternity of you fail to accept all of it's dubious claims comforting at all.

-Alex

[Comrade J]

Fortunately my parents are atheists, and although I believed in God til I was 5 or 6 because of what I was taught at school (despite it being a non-religious school) it never really had any significant effect on my life.


Both of my parents are religious and we went to Church just about every Sunday, although I never really cared for it. Infact most of my life I never really cared for going to Church. I have always believed in a God and I labeled myself as a Christian but I never did anything past that. It wasn't until college that I became an anarchist and then I eventually realized that to be a Christian actually meant to also be an anarchist/communist. And then I really started caring more about my faith. I started visiting the website www.jesusradicals.com , I started actually reading my Bible, I started reading other books on the Bible and also anarchy such as C.S. Lewis and Leo Tolstoy, and I also took some classes at college.

Damn, your Bible must be different to the one I had the misfortune to read... I'll make a separate thread for this topic.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+April 08, 2007 02:44 pm--> (Jazzratt @ April 08, 2007 02:44 pm) I don't understand how people contract memetic diseases like religion if their parents don't pass them on. It's like wilfully choosing to be an idiot. [/b]
Don't be obtuse. At least three of the major world religions (Christianity, Islam and Buddhism) were started by one man or a small group of people. The only reason they still exist today is precisely because they've had enormous success in converting people against the wishes of their families and friends. You might fail to understand how or why this happens, but you would have to be woefully ignorant of history to deny that it does in fact happen.

Every Christian alive today is either a convert or the descendant of a convert.

Perhaps if you understood memetics better, you'd have more success in organizing the proletariat. Pity.


Originally posted by [email protected]

wtfm8lol
damn, you dont even have an excuse. youre one mighty fine example of a retard.
Why is it that we attack people for certain beliefs that cause them no real harm?
Thank you for trying to talk some sense into the ignorant, comrade, but I'm afraid you're wasting your breath. Also, note that this wasn't a case of "we" attacking anyone - wtfm8lol is a capitalist, which is enough to qualify him as an idiot in my book even without his moronic comments.

As far as hostility to religion on the part of comrades goes, I view it as just another example of unfortunate factionalism within the left. Anyone who wants to abolish private property over the means of production is my comrade, and I don't give a damn why he wants to do that. (the how might matter - for example gradualism is doomed to failure - but even then, a gradualist is a misguided comrade who needs to be persuaded, not an enemy who needs to be fought)

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Edric O+April 09, 2007 06:10 am--> (Edric O @ April 09, 2007 06:10 am)
[email protected] 08, 2007 02:44 pm
I don't understand how people contract memetic diseases like religion if their parents don't pass them on. It's like wilfully choosing to be an idiot.
Don't be obtuse. At least three of the major world religions (Christianity, Islam and Buddhism) were started by one man or a small group of people. The only reason they still exist today is precisely because they've had enormous success in converting people against the wishes of their families and friends. You might fail to understand how or why this happens, but you would have to be woefully ignorant of history to deny that it does in fact happen.

Every Christian alive today is either a convert or the descendant of a convert.

Perhaps if you understood memetics better, you'd have more success in organizing the proletariat. Pity. [/b]
Naturally I understand how people become religious what I don't quite see is how these things are relevant any more - they should really have been done away with during the enlightenment. Obviously they weren't and people are still open to these delusions so, clearly, they need treatment of some kind. I pity people suffering from religion and hope one day there is a cure.

[yulives]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+April 09, 2007 10:42 am--> (Jazzratt @ April 09, 2007 10:42 am)
Originally posted by Edric [email protected] 09, 2007 06:10 am

[email protected] 08, 2007 02:44 pm
I don't understand how people contract memetic diseases like religion if their parents don't pass them on. It's like wilfully choosing to be an idiot.
Don't be obtuse. At least three of the major world religions (Christianity, Islam and Buddhism) were started by one man or a small group of people. The only reason they still exist today is precisely because they've had enormous success in converting people against the wishes of their families and friends. You might fail to understand how or why this happens, but you would have to be woefully ignorant of history to deny that it does in fact happen.

Every Christian alive today is either a convert or the descendant of a convert.

Perhaps if you understood memetics better, you'd have more success in organizing the proletariat. Pity.
Naturally I understand how people become religious what I don't quite see is how these things are relevant any more - they should really have been done away with during the enlightenment. Obviously they weren't and people are still open to these delusions so, clearly, they need treatment of some kind. I pity people suffering from religion and hope one day there is a cure. [/b]
There is a cure for it. Its called common sense. Too bad so many people dont want to take it.

[Lord Testicles]

I wasn&#39;t brought up religious and I&#39;m not religious, but because people like to play with the fact that god/s might exist I did spend a about a year going "does it or doesn&#39;t it" (fucking hippies <_< )

[Rawthentic]

I was brought up Catholic. I did my first communion and was baptized, but I always questioned it and I wondered why I just really didn&#39;t give a fuck for Jesus.

Anyway, I am Mexican, and Mexicans are so devoutly Catholic that its scary. So I tend to keep my atheism to myself.

[ichneumon]

A. Upbringing. Easily most important.

B. Safety blanket. Lots of people just can&#39;t handle that there&#39;s no one "up there".

C. Confirmation snowball. People ignore contary evidence and emphasise positive.

D. Think that atheism leads to immorality, blah blah blah.

E. Live in an area where not being religious is social suicide. Saudia Arabia, U.S.

i took a college course called "the vision of buddhism" - it rocked my world. religion went from being this stupid shit that other people believe to a comprehensive and logical view of the universe, complete with a system of ethics and 2,500yrs of associated esoterica that i could dabble in when it amuses me. reactionary anti-religion atheism was phase of teenage rebelliousness for me. i grew out of it. :P

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+April 09, 2007 12:42 pm--> (Jazzratt @ April 09, 2007 12:42 pm)
Originally posted by Edric [email protected] 09, 2007 06:10 am

[email protected] 08, 2007 02:44 pm
I don&#39;t understand how people contract memetic diseases like religion if their parents don&#39;t pass them on. It&#39;s like wilfully choosing to be an idiot.
Don&#39;t be obtuse. At least three of the major world religions (Christianity, Islam and Buddhism) were started by one man or a small group of people. The only reason they still exist today is precisely because they&#39;ve had enormous success in converting people against the wishes of their families and friends. You might fail to understand how or why this happens, but you would have to be woefully ignorant of history to deny that it does in fact happen.

Every Christian alive today is either a convert or the descendant of a convert.

Perhaps if you understood memetics better, you&#39;d have more success in organizing the proletariat. Pity.
Naturally I understand how people become religious what I don&#39;t quite see is how these things are relevant any more - they should really have been done away with during the enlightenment. Obviously they weren&#39;t and people are still open to these delusions so, clearly, they need treatment of some kind. I pity people suffering from religion and hope one day there is a cure. [/b]
I see an opportunity for debate here.

Tell me, what is your view on the use of recreational drugs and other "victimless crimes"?

Even starting from the premise that religion is a self-comforting delusion, do you believe leftists should prevent people from doing anything that causes delusions for the purpose of escaping reality? If yes, do you support the "war on drugs"?

In other words, you say you don&#39;t want people to use the "opiate of the masses". How about people using just plain old fashioned opiate, in the literal sense? Can you logically support the use of one but oppose the use of the other?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Edric [email protected] 09, 2007 10:15 pm
I see an opportunity for debate here.
I am overwhelmingly happy for you.


Tell me, what is your view on the use of recreational drugs and other "victimless crimes"?
Fine by me.


Even starting from the premise that religion is a self-comforting delusion, do you believe leftists should prevent people from doing anything that causes delusions for the purpose of escaping reality? If yes, do you support the "war on drugs"?
Of course not, however religion is functionally closer to mental disease than drug. I reject parts of marxist doctrine that identify it as an opiate because people who take opiatwes are aware or at least can be that what they are doing is going to lead to illusionary feelings of comfort and bliss whereas religious types tend not to recognise the illusionary nature of their comfort. It is therefore quite difficult to describe a victim of religion as having given informed consent to enter their deluded mental state.


In other words, you say you don&#39;t want people to use the "opiate of the masses". How about people using just plain old fashioned opiate, in the literal sense? Can you logically support the use of one but oppose the use of the other?
As I said it is less opiate, more affliction.

[Question everything]

I was raised Roman Catholic, but not really religiously (I only go to church twice a year only easter and christmas), Now I do pray but I don&#39;t believe in God, so go figure.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 12:36 am
As I said it is less opiate, more affliction.
Fascinating. An infectious disease that can be contracted by merely speaking with an infected person&#33; This is a groundbreaking discovery that will revolutionize medical science and seriously undermine the germ theory of disease.

Or, it could be a bunch of ignorant (not to mention authoritarian) bullcrap.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Edric O+April 09, 2007 11:34 pm--> (Edric O @ April 09, 2007 11:34 pm)
[email protected] 10, 2007 12:36 am
As I said it is less opiate, more affliction.
Fascinating. An infectious disease that can be contracted by merely speaking with an infected person&#33; This is a groundbreaking discovery that will revolutionize medical science and seriously undermine the germ theory of disease.

Or, it could be a bunch of ignorant (not to mention authoritarian) bullcrap. [/b]
<_< Yes, all diseases are physical and must therefore be passed on by germs. What&#39;s failing your comprhension of the English language or your &#39;sagacity&#39; (such as it can be identified) in general?

[Kwisatz Haderach]

*Yawn* Would you rather I ridicule the completely unscientific claims you make about some supposedly new mental disease in a different manner?

The point is, come back when you&#39;ve done some repeatable experiments to test a clear and falsifiable hypothesis regarding the supposed connection between mental illness and religion.

Or, you could just ask us to take your claims on faith. Oh, wait...

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Edric [email protected] 10, 2007 12:25 am
*Yawn* Would you rather I ridicule the completely unscientific claims you make about some supposedly new mental disease in a different manner?

The point is, come back when you&#39;ve done some repeatable experiments to test a clear and falsifiable hypothesis regarding the supposed connection between mental illness and religion.

Or, you could just ask us to take your claims on faith. Oh, wait...
HOLY SHIT&#33; (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder) It&#39;s not new.

Now fuck off.

[ichneumon]

Of course not, however religion is functionally closer to mental disease than drug.

the DSM-IV-R disagrees. religious beliefs are not considered delusional. besides, methinks the lady doth protest too much. 90% of the posters on this board are certifiable. if revolutionary socialism associated with mental disease?

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

I was brought up along the lines of the sickeningly friendly liberal Christianity of the United Church of Canada. I accepted their all-inclusive values of tolerance and honesty, but the whole bit about appealing to a paternalistic higher power seemed a pointless add-on.

It was a church that is as near as one can get to atheism and still call oneself a Christian. I just made the logical next step to utter godlessness.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 05:23 am
religious beliefs are not considered delusional.
That is because religious beliefs are wiedly accepted, and people must respect them. :rolleyes:

If you walked into a shrinks office and said,
"There is an invisable dude following me, he tells me to do things and how I should do them, he tells me other people are abomanations and should be stoned to death, he tells me that my thoughts make me bad and that he will send me to a very bad place if I continue"

The shrink would put you in a mental health zoo and never ever let you out.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 04:23 am

Of course not, however religion is functionally closer to mental disease than drug.

the DSM-IV-R disagrees. religious beliefs are not considered delusional. besides, methinks the lady doth protest too much. 90% of the posters on this board are certifiable. if revolutionary socialism associated with mental disease?
Skinz pretty much deals with this. There is nothing wrong with having a mental disorder and being a revolutionary socialist - I would happily work with the religious/schizophrenic/paranoid in order to further the interests of the proletariat.

[ichneumon]

That is because religious beliefs are wiedly accepted, and people must respect them. rolleyes.gif

If you walked into a shrinks office and said,
"There is an invisable dude following me, he tells me to do things and how I should do them, he tells me other people are abomanations and should be stoned to death, he tells me that my thoughts make me bad and that he will send me to a very bad place if I continue"

The shrink would put you in a mental health zoo and never ever let you out.

hearing voices is not the same thing as having faith. whether you like it or not, the normal human psyche includes some kind of religious belief, and that belief is beneficial, not pathological. that&#39;s the difference you don&#39;t seem to understand: religion helps people.


Skinz pretty much deals with this. There is nothing wrong with having a mental disorder and being a revolutionary socialist - I would happily work with the religious/schizophrenic/paranoid in order to further the interests of the proletariat.

and this is how we end up with Hoxha and Kim Jung Il. there is something VERY SERIOUSLY wrong with exploiting people with mental illness to further your political ends.


Central to understanding individuals diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder is that they appear to experience a limited range of human emotions. This can explain their lack of empathy for the suffering of others, since they cannot experience the emotion associated with either empathy or suffering. Risk-seeking behavior and substance abuse may be attempts to escape feeling empty or emotionally void. The rage exhibited by psychopaths and the anxiety associated with certain types of antisocial personality disorder may represent the limit of emotion experienced or there may be physiological responses without analogy to emotion experienced by others

Research has shown that individuals with antisocial personality disorder are indifferent to the possibility of physical pain or many punishments and show no indications that they experience fear when so threatened. This may explain their apparent disregard for the consequences of their actions and their aforementioned lack of empathy.

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another


sound familiar????

[BurnTheOliveTree]

took a college course called "the vision of buddhism" - it rocked my world. religion went from being this stupid shit that other people believe to a comprehensive and logical view of the universe, complete with a system of ethics and 2,500yrs of associated esoterica that i could dabble in when it amuses me. reactionary anti-religion atheism was phase of teenage rebelliousness for me. i grew out of it.

Well, I&#39;m happy for you. Not really a counter argument, though, is it? I could just as well say that the Black Book of Communism rocked my world, and that capitalism went from being this stupid shit to a comprehensive and logical view of the world.

If you&#39;ve got any serious objections to my points, by all means raise them, but this kind of anecdotal rebuttal just doesn&#39;t cut the mustard, jimbo. :)

-Alex

[razboz]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 06:01 pm

hearing voices is not the same thing as having faith. whether you like it or not, the normal human psyche includes some kind of religious belief, and that belief is beneficial, not pathological. that&#39;s the difference you don&#39;t seem to understand: religion helps people.

Religion does not help people. People help people or jhelp themselves. Religion is just exploited as pretext for helping people. Religion is like a drug. It makes you feel better, but your life is still shit.

So would you rather be religious and think "hey in the next life right?" or actually do something and fix your life now?. It is idiotic to think religion has ever helped somone, the same way Marijuana, or alcohol or any other drug of your choice (opium comes to mind) have never ever helped anyone using them. They might provide a bit of temporary happiness, but ultimately your life is still the same whether or not you are high on religion or drugs.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

I hardly think the subjugation of women in the case of Islam even qualifies as an opiate. Or Buddhism, which seems to be the particular pack of lies that you&#39;ve decided to swallow. They think that children born with disabilities deserve it because of unethical action in their previous life.

And what about the social implications of religion? If just one of the 46 percent of Americans who actively pursure the apocalpsye as a means to the second coming of christ became president...

We as a species are now simply too powerful to entertain these hideous fantasies anymore.

-Alex

[ichneumon]

Religion does not help people. People help people or jhelp themselves. Religion is just exploited as pretext for helping people. Religion is like a drug. It makes you feel better, but your life is still shit.

So would you rather be religious and think "hey in the next life right?" or actually do something and fix your life now?. It is idiotic to think religion has ever helped somone, the same way Marijuana, or alcohol or any other drug of your choice (opium comes to mind) have never ever helped anyone using them. They might provide a bit of temporary happiness, but ultimately your life is still the same whether or not you are high on religion or drugs.

try some science for a change.


"Religious orientation and psychological well-being: The role of the frequency of personal prayer - J Maltby, CA Lewis, L Day - British Journal of Health Psychology, 1999" (http://www.infm.ulst.ac.uk/~chris/50.pdf)


Objectives. The aim of the present study was to examine the role of religious acts within the relationship between measures of religious orientation and psychological well-being, to examine the theoretical view that religion can act as a coping mechanism.

Design. Correlational statistics, principal components analysis with oblimin rotation and multiple regression were used to examine the relationships between a number of religiosity and psychological well-being measures.

Method. A sample of 474 UK students (251 males, 223 females) were administered questionnaire measures of three aspects of religious orientation (intrinsic, extrinsic, Quest), frequency of personal prayer and church attendance, alongside measures of depressive symptoms, trait anxiety and self-esteem.

Results. Though a number of signi.cant correlations were found between measures of religiosity and psychological well-being, a multiple regression analysis using identifiable religious components suggests that frequency of personal prayer is the dominant factor in the relationship between religiosity and psychological well-being.

Conclusions. The results suggest two points: (1) that the correlations between a number ofmeasures of religiosity and psychological well-being may be mediated by the relationship between frequency of personal prayer and psychological well-being; (2) that personal prayer may be an important variable to consider within the theory of religious coping.

[Boriznov]

I was baptized but that&#39;s all, my parents never go to church to pray or anything or critize homosexuals. Just to add that :P

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Ichneumon - Secular meditations provide the same function. No need to bother believing ridiculous claims to get that particular satisfaction.

-Alex

[ichneumon]

A growing body of research has linked religious involvement with positive mental and physical health outcomes. We have contributed to this literature by outlining several mechanisms by which aspects of religiosity may enhance mental health, distilling several distinct hypotheses based on this discussion, exploring multiple dimensions of religious involvement, examining both positive and negative mental health outcomes, and testing our hypotheses using data from a well-respected community sample, the 1995 Detroit Area Study. At the most general level, our findings are broadly congruent with those of several previous studies in this area. We find nontrivial and generally salutary effects of religious involvement, especially the frequency of attendance at religious services, on both distress and well-being. Overall, however, the religious effects appear stronger for well-being than for distress, with the belief dimension (specifically, belief in eternal life) emerging as a significant predictor of well-being only.

Religious Involvement, Stress, and Mental Health: (http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/social_forces/v080/80.1ellison.html)

so, does secular belief in eternal life provide the same benefits?

btw, 200yrs ago doctors and scientists alike thought that bleeding would cure disease. now they know better. buddhists also learn and change - birth defects are caused by genetic abnormalities. nevertheless, religion often helps people with birth defects deal with their lives, and attain a measure of peace. would you take that from them for the sake of your ideology?

[che's long lost daughter]

I grew up in a Catholic family, though not a really devout one. My family prays but not really the type who goes to church every Sunday. I went to a school ran by nuns and a Catholic high school. I remember when I was on the first grade, we were asked to memorise the prayer "Hail Holy Queen" and I was one of those who weren&#39;t able to recite it so we were punished and asked to stand on top of our chairs. As a kid, I believed that Catholic was the best religion. I was baptized, had my communion and had another sacrament which name escapes my mind at the moment. In profiles, I write my religion as Catholic until I realised that religion in general is nothing but hypocrisy. People following rules and doing good things for fear of burning in hell.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 06:01 pm

Skinz pretty much deals with this. There is nothing wrong with having a mental disorder and being a revolutionary socialist - I would happily work with the religious/schizophrenic/paranoid in order to further the interests of the proletariat.

and this is how we end up with Hoxha and Kim Jung Il. there is something VERY SERIOUSLY wrong with exploiting people with mental illness to further your political ends.
Clearly I was not talking about exploiting them. The key word was with. Whatever their affliction as long as they are capable of working toward communism it doesn&#39;t matter to me. However I would want to see that they are treated post revolution, if at all possible.





Central to understanding individuals diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder is that they appear to experience a limited range of human emotions. This can explain their lack of empathy for the suffering of others, since they cannot experience the emotion associated with either empathy or suffering. Risk-seeking behavior and substance abuse may be attempts to escape feeling empty or emotionally void. The rage exhibited by psychopaths and the anxiety associated with certain types of antisocial personality disorder may represent the limit of emotion experienced or there may be physiological responses without analogy to emotion experienced by others

Research has shown that individuals with antisocial personality disorder are indifferent to the possibility of physical pain or many punishments and show no indications that they experience fear when so threatened. This may explain their apparent disregard for the consequences of their actions and their aforementioned lack of empathy.

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another


sound familiar????
Yes it does. But then again so would a similar piece on asperger syndrome. I however can recognise that I am afflicted, unlike a lot of religious types.

[bezdomni]

I am the only atheist in a family of catholics.

[razboz]

icenhumon: i do not deny that religion makes folk feel better about themselves. I am arguing that it gives a false impression of well-being. The situation does not change just the appreciation of the situation. People feel better, but people are not actually better. I&#39;m sure if you were to test 10 high people 9 of them would say they feel "quite good" about their lives. If you were to poll the same 10 people sober they would probably answer much differently.

[ichneumon]

false impression of well-being

contradiction in terms. have you never heard of stress? are you not aware of the 21st century?


Yes it does. But then again so would a similar piece on asperger syndrome. I however can recognise that I am afflicted, unlike a lot of religious types.

well, that used to be me. too. i got religion and got over it. now i&#39;m only mildly schizotypal, and very functional. is that not useful?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 09:24 pm

Yes it does. But then again so would a similar piece on asperger syndrome. I however can recognise that I am afflicted, unlike a lot of religious types.

well, that used to be me. too. i got religion and got over it. now i&#39;m only mildly schizotypal, and very functional. is that not useful?
What is the use of exchanging one disorder for another?

[ichneumon]

well, let&#39;s see...before 2000, five arrests, the last with 1/2million&#036; bond, thrown out, barely, instead of 25yrs minimum lockdown. if i tried it now, they&#39;d call me a terrorist.

now, career, job, happiness, life. also, i don&#39;t cause massive damage to the people around me. i construct instead of destruct.

actually, that&#39;s anecdotal and proves nothings and probably isn&#39;t about religion. nevertheless, ASPD sucks ass. it only *seems* like fun while you have it. it&#39;s a very serious problem, but there are a few tricks to get over it.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 03:50 pm
I am the only atheist in a family of catholics.
Oh dear. Do they call you heathen or try to show you "the light"?

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 03:36 pm
There is nothing wrong with having a mental disorder and being a revolutionary socialist - I would happily work with the religious/schizophrenic/paranoid in order to further the interests of the proletariat.
Good. That&#39;s all I want to hear.

I am a firm believer in the principle that we should resolve our differences after the revolution, not before. After the revolution has succeeded in the entire world, to be exact. Abolishing private property over the means of production is the absolute, non-negotiable priority. Only after capitalism has been defeated and the post-revolutionary society has been securely established should we settle the finer points of a new social structure.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

It&#39;s hardly a &#39;finer point&#39; Edric.

Whether or not to believe in a deity who&#39;s authored a book and will punish us with fire forever if we don&#39;t accept every single one of it&#39;s incredible claims?

It&#39;s a total departure from reality.

-Alex

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Oh, it&#39;s certainly important for one&#39;s personal life. It is, however, only a "finer point" as far as the structure of a post-revolutionary society is concerned. In other words, socialists of both atheist and Christian persuasions want basically the same kind of society and follow basically the same kind of politics (though perhaps for different reasons).

At least, as far as my own views go, there is not much difference between the kind of society I want and the kind of society most Marxists want (and the bulk of the differences that do exist are due to political rather than religious issues).

So, yeah, it&#39;s a finer point.

[Eleutherios]

Whether or not religion provides psychological benefits, it&#39;s still based on falsehoods. I suppose ignorance can be bliss, but I prefer the truth. In any case, I haven&#39;t found anything good that religions can do that a good philosophy or a good group of friends can&#39;t.

Originally posted by Edric O
I am a firm believer in the principle that we should resolve our differences after the revolution, not before. After the revolution has succeeded in the entire world, to be exact. Abolishing private property over the means of production is the absolute, non-negotiable priority. Only after capitalism has been defeated and the post-revolutionary society has been securely established should we settle the finer points of a new social structure.
That&#39;s good, but I&#39;m a firm believer in trying to figure out some of our differences in the meantime too. The worldwide revolution isn&#39;t going to happen tomorrow, so it&#39;s not like we don&#39;t have time.

The social climate will change significantly before the revolution happens, and if it&#39;s correct to extrapolate from history here, atheism will be much more prevalent and religion much more marginalized by then. The trends of history are against religion. There was a time when religious superstition and mythology were deeply intertwined with pretty much every aspect of pretty much everybody&#39;s lives. Now religion amounts to little more than a hobby of self-delusion practiced by a shrinking portion of the population. Around here at least, my parents&#39; generation is markedly less religious than my grandparents&#39; is, and the vast majority of my peers do not practice any kind of religion.

By the time we get around to taking down capitalism, I anticipate religion becoming largely irrelevant. Not that there won&#39;t be people who continue to believe in an invisible father figure in the sky; just that they&#39;d be less common, and less likely to try to spread their delusional dogmata among the nonreligious public, for fear of ridicule and alienation.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 06:24 pm
How is that possible when the atheist socailists want a future without you guys anywhere in it?
Atheist socialists believe that religion is just a coping mechanism used by people to hide from the oppression and suffering they have to endure in reality. Atheist socialists believe that people will abandon religion once they no longer need it and once they have acquired better knowledge of the universe.

In other words, atheist socialists predict that religion will disappear naturally once happiness and knowledge are widespread.

Religious socialists like myself believe that prediction is laughable and naive, and that religion will in fact start growing again once people are no longer weighted down by the worries of a capitalist society and are no longer alienated from each other (and from God) by a culture of agressive individualism.

In other words, while atheist socialists believe that socialism will naturally lead to widespread atheism, religious socialists believe that socialism will naturally lead to a revival of spirituality.

So we want the same kind of future society - we just have different expectations about what people will do in that society.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 03:48 pm
The social climate will change significantly before the revolution happens, and if it&#39;s correct to extrapolate from history here, atheism will be much more prevalent and religion much more marginalized by then. The trends of history are against religion. There was a time when religious superstition and mythology were deeply intertwined with pretty much every aspect of pretty much everybody&#39;s lives. Now religion amounts to little more than a hobby of self-delusion practiced by a shrinking portion of the population. Around here at least, my parents&#39; generation is markedly less religious than my grandparents&#39; is, and the vast majority of my peers do not practice any kind of religion.

By the time we get around to taking down capitalism, I anticipate religion becoming largely irrelevant. Not that there won&#39;t be people who continue to believe in an invisible father figure in the sky; just that they&#39;d be less common, and less likely to try to spread their delusional dogmata among the nonreligious public, for fear of ridicule and alienation.
You are correct, but only as far as Western cultures are concerned. I see no signs of a historical trend against religion anywhere outside the imperialist heartlands of North America, Europe and Australia. Since these are likely to be the last places reached by the revolution, I see good reasons to believe that, in the initial stages at least, the revolution will draw most of its support from a religious working class.

[Rage Against Right]

my parents were in their teens in the sixties, so they were more into sex drugs and rock and roll...i think its genetic, cause religion was non existant in my life until i got to high school and it was catholic, but my views stayed the same only now i have evidence to back up my theory, christians are completly mad, and are all in all, scared of death

[Tower of Bebel]

I was brought up religious. I went to a catholic school. My parents believe in god, but they hate the Vatican for it&#39;s old fashioned, conservative and it only seeks power. I became atheïst in katholic high school; by myself. My parents are no orthodox or dogmatic catholics. They&#39;re just christians who believe in God.

[RedAnarchist]

I wasn&#39;t brought up religious, but there was some religion, as my Dad&#39;s family are Catholic, although he considers Catholicism to be too rigid.

My mums family (as well as myself, my sister and 3 brothers) are baptised Anglicans, although my mums family are not religious, although when my mother died a few years ago, she was given the last rites (I dont know why, as I always thought that was just for Catholics).

[freakazoid]

and are all in all, scared of death

Really? And what reason do we have to fear death for? Life is only the beginning for us. It is you who believe that death is the end.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:14 am

and are all in all, scared of death

Really? And what reason do we have to fear death for? Life is only the beginning for us. It is you who believe that death is the end.
That&#39;s exactly it though. You know you&#39;re going to die so you pretend there is some great afterlife for you, to help cope with the fear of death. We know we will die and we know that will be it, but (1) there isn&#39;t a lot we can do about it (for now) and (2) there is nothing inherently terrifying in death or nothingness - after all we can cope with not having been born for billions of years.

[freakazoid]

That&#39;s exactly it though. You know you&#39;re going to die so you pretend there is some great afterlife for you, to help cope with the fear of death.

Yet I am not afraid to die. The same statement of yours could be turned the other way, You know you&#39;re going to die so you pretend there isn&#39;t some great afterlife for you, that there is not point to life, to help cope with the fear of death and what it would mean if there really is a God.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 03:57 pm

That&#39;s exactly it though. You know you&#39;re going to die so you pretend there is some great afterlife for you, to help cope with the fear of death.

Yet I am not afraid to die. The same statement of yours could be turned the other way, You know you&#39;re going to die so you pretend there isn&#39;t some great afterlife for you, that there is not point to life, to help cope with the fear of death and what it would mean if there really is a God.
:rolleyes: Humans do not, historically, fear having more life. In fact a lot of human action can be put down to the fact we&#39;re absolutely shit scared of suddenly having considerably less life. Your argument doesn&#39;t work, why would I construct a fantasy that, when put next to yours, seems terrible? What would I have to fear from eternal bliss?

[freakazoid]

Humans do not, historically, fear having more life.

Exactly, so how am I afraid of death?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 05:40 pm

Humans do not, historically, fear having more life.

Exactly, so how am I afraid of death?
Because you have, in your fear of death, been taken in by the lie that soothes your fear (i.e. "life after death.). Obviously you do not believe this is a lie, because you are in denial and I pity you for your disease.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I hope you all realize that ad hominem is, in fact, a fallacy.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Edric [email protected] 19, 2007 07:13 am
I hope you all realize that ad hominem is, in fact, a fallacy.
Yes, what is the relevance of this statement? Unless you&#39;re one of these ****s that doesn&#39;t understand the format of an hominem fallacy, point me to the use of an ad hominem in this thread (that is a fallacious statement, not simply a personal attack you silly ****.).

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I was making note of the fact that the argument was degenerating into "you&#39;re wrong because you&#39;re afraid of death / no I&#39;m not, and it is you who should be afraid". Such an argument is obviously fallacious.

Unless, of course, this thread has been officially reserved for personal attacks and no one is making any actual arguments. In that case, pardon the intrusion. You may carry on flaming now.

[Jazzratt]

Except the argument is not "you are wrong because you are afraid of death". The argument is a point often raised about religion that most of them have been made up because people want to explain the unexplainable or are simply scared of the reality of their mortality.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 10:11 am
Raised a Catholic, went to catechism, and have gotten up to my first communion, but I am an athiest as of around January.
Whoa just of January.

I have been atheist since birth. No gods, no masters and no syphilis ..... oh wait is that not how it goes? :ph34r: I was never baptized and I have only been to church about 3 times in my life. Once was on easter because I spent the night with my aunt and uncle. Another time was because my friend said they had donuts(which they did). Another time is that I went to see my cousin at his school but he went to catholic school and I got sucked into the morning church thingy :(

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 08:29 pm
I eventually realized that to be a Christian actually meant to also be an anarchist/communist. And then I really started caring more about my faith.
Wait, wait wait..... how can believe in the almighty, the king of all kings and the highest master be compatible with anarchism. You can believe whatever you like that&#39;s on you but being Christian does not mean being an anarchist. Believing in god is the highest form of hierarchy ever created but I guess as long as god is only an imaginary friend in your head it doesn&#39;t bother me.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by Edric [email protected] 19, 2007 03:11 pm
I was making note of the fact that the argument was degenerating into "you&#39;re wrong because you&#39;re afraid of death / no I&#39;m not, and it is you who should be afraid". Such an argument is obviously fallacious.

Unless, of course, this thread has been officially reserved for personal attacks and no one is making any actual arguments. In that case, pardon the intrusion. You may carry on flaming now.
It has. Just sit back and Enjoy.

[freakazoid]

Wait, wait wait..... how can believe in the almighty, the king of all kings and the highest master be compatible with anarchism. You can believe whatever you like that&#39;s on you but being Christian does not mean being an anarchist. Believing in god is the highest form of hierarchy ever created but I guess as long as god is only an imaginary friend in your head it doesn&#39;t bother me.

We reject human authority. This is why we call ourselves Christian Anarchists and not just anarchists.


Another time was because my friend said they had donuts(which they did).

Where the donuts good?

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 09:40 pm

Wait, wait wait..... how can believe in the almighty, the king of all kings and the highest master be compatible with anarchism. You can believe whatever you like that&#39;s on you but being Christian does not mean being an anarchist. Believing in god is the highest form of hierarchy ever created but I guess as long as god is only an imaginary friend in your head it doesn&#39;t bother me.

We reject human authority. This is why we call ourselves Christian Anarchists and not just anarchists.


Anarchists are supposed to reject all authority, human or otherwise.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 08:40 pm

Another time was because my friend said they had donuts(which they did).

Where the donuts good?
Take it from a guy who used to go to church... probably not.

[gilhyle]

I was brought up catholic. As a teenager, I wrestled with that religion. Initially the just war theory troubled me and made me aware that the substance of this religion&#39;s beleifs were underdetermined by any revelatory texts and were actually determined by social forces. I turned into a sort of protestant, until I realised that the careful reading of the gospel undermined any idea of the divinity of Jesus. Once Jesus was seen as a preacher, it became possible to switch to humanism and from there to buddhism.

From there I moved to Zen Buddhism.....as I freed my mind from the constraints which Zen buddhism pointed me towards removing, I woke up one day with that instinctive gut realisation which is the heart of Zen Buddhism.... but it was not the gut reaction I was meant to have, it was a gut reaction that all religious affirmations were alien to me.......religion was gone, like the gentle wind that just stops.

Years later I retain an affection for Catholic theology which continues to illuminate many theoretical issues as long as you keep away from its concept of mystery - on which it relies. I retain a sympathy for the love of their faith that religious people have, because I recall the comfort of faith - but I wish I had faith in the same way I wish I was bisexual : I know Im missing some stuff that feels good, but there is nothing to be done about it now.

I listen to and participate in debates on religon as a set of factual claims. The debate is always holllow, cos that is not what religious faith feels like - it doesnt feel like accepting an hypothesis. Read Newman&#39;s Apologia Pro Vita Sua. I have no doubt that the factual claims are ludicrously untenable, but I accept also that that isnt the whole point.

I note and sometimes fight against the corrosive and reactionary political impact of organised religions. I smile condescendingly at the neo-humanist interpretations of the major religions that &#39;reasonable&#39; western liberals twist and manouvere into, with their endless metaphorical interpretations. "Hell is really something we experience here on earth"...PLEASE &#33; They are pathetic, but I understand their desperation.

Sometimes I miss my religion, just as sometimes I miss my childhood. But its gone and so it should be.

[which doctor]

I was raised a Roman Catholic, but am now an anti-theist.

My family was only Catholic though as a matter of convenience.

[freakazoid]

until I realised that the careful reading of the gospel undermined any idea of the divinity of Jesus.

How so?

[gilhyle]

Not that the argument matters much to me anymore, but &#39;Son of God&#39;.....&#39;Son of Man&#39; those terms are used in the gospels and are used to suggest that Jesus claimed a unique relatinship to God. The use of these terms was widespread in ancient religious texts and did not usually denote a claim to unique status as the progeny of God&#39;s illicit fling with a human. The so called divinity of Jesus had little role in Christianity for a significant period of its earlier years. Its substantial basis is in the development of doctrine to exclude various gnostics etc and as part of the development of the theology of the crucifixion (mainly a second century development if I recall correctly).

The doctrine of the Trinity is one of the most incomprehensible elements of Christianity. The theology of it is suffused with the recourse to &#39;mystery&#39;. Even more than most of Christianity it is impossible to even know what you are assenting to. The doctrine of the &#39;only son&#39; is bound up with metaphorical reference to the human method of reproduction in a way that makes it uniquely difficult to make sense of stripped of metaphor.

So here is an idea with a weak textual basis and an incomprehensible content : of all the elements of Christianity it has the least substance.....even for Christians.

[ichneumon]

my reading of the new testament lead to a similar conclusion - i don&#39;t think jesus ever meant to be divine, that was something people made up later. it&#39;s just too bad he didn&#39;t write his own gospel.

[freakazoid]

I suggest you read The Case For Christ, by Lee Strobel. :D It is quite clear from reading the Bible that it is meant that Jesus is divine.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 08:11 pm
I suggest you read The Case For Christ, by Lee Strobel. :D It is quite clear from reading the Bible that it is meant that Jesus is divine.
... I suggest you read a real book :P

[Question everything]

Originally posted by patton+April 25, 2007 10:08 pm--> (patton @ April 25, 2007 10:08 pm)
Originally posted by Question [email protected] 25, 2007 09:48 pm

[email protected] 25, 2007 08:11 pm
I suggest you read The Case For Christ, by Lee Strobel. :D It is quite clear from reading the Bible that it is meant that Jesus is divine.
... I suggest you read a real book :P
LOL I dont think that will happen freakazoid is crackers. :D [/b]
:lol:

[wtfm8lol]

Originally posted by Question everything+April 25, 2007 05:36 pm--> (Question everything @ April 25, 2007 05:36 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 10:08 pm

Originally posted by Question [email protected] 25, 2007 09:48 pm

[email protected] 25, 2007 08:11 pm
I suggest you read The Case For Christ, by Lee Strobel. :D It is quite clear from reading the Bible that it is meant that Jesus is divine.
... I suggest you read a real book :P
LOL I dont think that will happen freakazoid is crackers. :D
:lol: [/b]
you two are sooooooooooooo funny

[Orange Juche]

I was raised Catholic. I&#39;m about as atheist as it gets.

Though my parents weren&#39;t the hardcore, right wing types. More the type of people who go to church out of habit because they were raised that way, rather than some super-devout commitment.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by wtfm8lol+April 25, 2007 10:58 pm--> (wtfm8lol @ April 25, 2007 10:58 pm)
Originally posted by Question [email protected] 25, 2007 05:36 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 10:08 pm

Originally posted by Question [email protected] 25, 2007 09:48 pm

[email protected] 25, 2007 08:11 pm
I suggest you read The Case For Christ, by Lee Strobel. :D It is quite clear from reading the Bible that it is meant that Jesus is divine.
... I suggest you read a real book :P
LOL I dont think that will happen freakazoid is crackers. :D
:lol:
you two are sooooooooooooo funny [/b]
why thank you.

[freakazoid]

Hardyharar, :P

[gilhyle]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 08:11 pm
I suggest you read The Case For Christ, by Lee Strobel. :D It is quite clear from reading the Bible that it is meant that Jesus is divine.
Dime a dozen.... so, thanks but NO

[Question everything]

Originally posted by gilhyle+April 26, 2007 10:54 pm--> (gilhyle @ April 26, 2007 10:54 pm)
[email protected] 25, 2007 08:11 pm
I suggest you read The Case For Christ, by Lee Strobel. :D It is quite clear from reading the Bible that it is meant that Jesus is divine.
Dime a dozen.... so, thanks but NO [/b]
You&#39;d accually pay for on of these books&#33;?&#33; :P :P :P

[freakazoid]

Dime a dozen.... so, thanks but NO

Why, afraid that you might actually learn something about my religion?

[Mr. Zach]

I was raised a Jehovah&#39;s Witness. I almost forced myself to accept it, even suppressing my own doubts. But, when the first opportunity arose, I just wandered off.

So, raised raised religious, but not anymore.

[gilhyle]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 03:07 am


Dime a dozen.... so, thanks but NO

Why, afraid that you might actually learn something about my religion?
Easy answer, too easy, might work in the schoolyard - read my original post and you&#39;ll see why its not worth my while

[Okocim]

yep.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 03:07 am


Dime a dozen.... so, thanks but NO

Why, afraid that you might actually learn something about my religion?
Yes God forbid I ever pay attention to my religion teacher and start believing in Him <_< I&#39;ve been stuck in catholic school since I was 4. The thing that finally pushed me over to the Atheist side was listening to my Fucken&#39; teacher and learning more &#39;bout the bible, rather than reading some theoretical neo-liberal crap.

[RedAnarchist]

I wasn't raised religious and I'm not. My dad is Catholic and he was brought up religious, but hes lapsed and considers the Catholic Church to be rigid. My mum was Church of England but her family weren't religious.

[apathy maybe]

Please observe the creation date and last post date before bringing back to life dead threads. Especially if they are more then ~3 months old (this one is over a year old).

Me, I was raised Catholic, but am now a fully fledged Quaker anti-theist.

[RedAnarchist]

Please observe the creation date and last post date before bringing back to life dead threads. Especially if they are more then ~3 months old (this one is over a year old).

Me, I was raised Catholic, but am now a fully fledged Quaker anti-theist.

Someone necro-voted, rather than me necro-posting.

[apathy maybe]

Yeah, I wasn't talking to you, I know you don't do that sort of think. It obviously looked like I was referring to you, but I wasn't ;).

[Os Cangaceiros]

I was raised religious. Kinda. Real "vanilla" religion, though; I went to a church every Sunday for a couple of years when I was a child, and that was it.

My mother was the religious (Baptist) one; my father isn't religious at all.

[Raúl Duke]

I was raised religious but luckily I got away from that crap.

The rest of my family is religious especially my mother.

Maybe it was my inquisitiveness...

[RHIZOMES]

I was raised in a Bible-thumping Evangelical household.

Now a militant atheist after a short and horrible lapse into religion again recently for a few months.

[Module]

Us kids were sent to Sunday School, occasionally church.
When we moved to Australia though that stopped entirely.
I have a memory of me praying to God after out pet guinea pig died :( I would've been about 6 years old, though, so that's no real indication of whether I was genuinely religious.

I was put into the protestant scripture class in primary school by my parents, however. That was what really made me start thinking about how ridiculous (and potentially harmful) religious beliefs were, ironically!
Probably not the effect they intended to have on their students. :D But that was just my developing rationality. Eyyy

[Colonello Buendia]

my parents were raised catholic but dad was an old league commie and athiest and mum hates the church so I was given completely free choice on the matter of religion

[There is No God!]

As a kid I was more religious than my parents, probably because hell scared the fuck outta me.

[Dean]

I was raised Episcopalian. My mom always hinted at being an atheist, but never said it. Eventually, I just figured the whole concept was really insane, so I have refused to believe in any supernaturalism since I was in middle school.

[Kronos]

Fortunately, yes I was. I got a first hand experience of what the Christians are really like. These miserable figures, as Nietzsche put it, who cannot count to three. At eleven years old the thought dawned on me: these idiots cannot be God's people. Or, or, God never existed in the first place. Aha!, I thought. That's it! But wait. What if I'm supposed to fix Christianity, myself, and make an example for people. The next thing you know I'm afflicted with that Kierkegaardian anxiety. This sticks with me until I meet Nietzsche. Finally, I convince myself that the question is not "does God exist", but "who the fuck would worship that asshole even if he did." So now I'm all about "reigning in hell rather than serving in heaven". But then I realize I don't like Lucifer either. He's no less an asshole than God. Talk about confusion. Anyway, I finally resolved to give two shits about being mortal, and trying to create a heaven here on earth. Then, like a fucking omen, I find Marx, with his whole "utopia" gig. I put two and two together, and I realize that capitalism is the devil, and this earth is hell. Then the grandeur sets in: I become an enraged megalomaniac who feels he is licensed by God to do whatever he needs to do to destroy capitalism. God left me a death note, and it said "Kronos, if you are reading these words, it means I am dead. Please continue where I left off and don't make the same mistakes I made. Heaven is gone too. The bank tore it down. You will have to make heaven on earth. Look for a man called Karl Marx. He will guide you. And never forget Nietzsche. He was my right hand man."

[Kami]

I converted my parents. I apologised later.

[al8]

I did not vote for I was more raised spritually rather than religiously. I was instructed by buddist nun in kindergarden fx. I was taken to a lutheran church for awhile and had respect for the church, clergy and the simplified children-book teachings of the christian mythology as well as for christian symbolism. However I later fell to spirituality, spiritism, new age stuff. But later broke away from my upringing and became secular, a complete non-faither. Mainly trhough the atheist organization in my area. It took quite some time to clear away the all the junk. My deconversion wasn't dramatic but gradual.

[Dust Bunnies]

Was raised Catholic, and still am, although I'm not your typical one. I still hold on to Catholicism against the other sects because with just a bit of tweaking from the Pope it can become the greatest sect of Christianity. Anyway, thank the Pope, he made 3 new sins which Socialists would agree with (don't enlargen the rich-poor divide, and I forgot the other 2)

[Sky]

Born and raised in the USSR, my family was never very religious. Although my mother as she has gotten older avidly reads religious literature, we never went to church except for occasions like weddings and funerals. Interestingly, my mother was an atheist when she was younger who talked about mocking the religious beliefs of the older generations.

I am an atheist, but I still have respect for the established church of my nation insofar as it helps to solidify national consciousness.

[Sentinel]

My parents were communists and anti-theists, and did everything in their power to prevent me from getting indoctrinated into superstition. Luckily they succeeded, and should I ever get children of my own I'll do the same.

[turquino]

solidify national consciousness.
Why?

Religion was never a part of my family, and i became a little militant atheist before age 10! :thumbup:

[Dust Bunnies]

Born and raised in the USSR, my family was never very religious. Although my mother as she has gotten older avidly reads religious literature, we never went to church except for occasions like weddings and funerals. Interestingly, my mother was an atheist when she was younger who talked about mocking the religious beliefs of the older generations.

I am an atheist, but I still have respect for the established church of my nation insofar as it helps to solidify national consciousness.

Can we sing "Back in the USSR"? :D That is odd, mocking religion then reading texts later, maybe she wants to be enlightened?

[The Advent of Anarchy]

I was raised by an agnostic mother who took me to church twice in my life. They were the dullest experiences in my life. Except when the pastor drank alcohol, that freaked me out. I was six years old! I didn't know they could do that!

[Thíazì]

There was a Catholic after school programme that pretty much everyone in my elementary and middle school would go to. This made an atheist.

Turns out I got expelled from that programme since some fat **** was *****ing incessantly about purgatory and hell or something, and I just said "fuck Jesus" and left.

OH NO, I CAN'T GET CONFIRMED?! :laugh:

[Peacekeeper]

I was raised atheist in a working class family in the USA. I was drawn to socialism due to my class background, and from there drawn to Islam.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I was raised atheist in a working class family in the USA. I was drawn to socialism due to my class background, and from there drawn to Islam.

Why? What is it about the ravings of a primitive bronze age lunatic with a messiah complex that drew you to a medieval superstition?

[Peacekeeper]

Why? What is it about the ravings of a primitive bronze age lunatic with a messiah complex that drew you to a medieval superstition?

What drew me were the anti-materialist (materialist in a literal sense) principles of the religion, that one of the five pillars of Islam is helping those in poverty, and also that Muslims actually implement their religion in their daily lives, pray at least five times a day, greatly respect women (unlike Christians :crying:) and the strong sense of community within the ummah. Every Muslim is my brother/sister. That's a family of about 1.8 billion people!

Also, while the Bible has been edited extensively, things being put in and taken out throughout the centuries, the Holy Koran has remained in its original form, showing that it cannot be corrupted, and must be the word of Allah (swt). In its original Arabic, it is like reading poetry, not like the Bible, which is extremely dull reading. Also, the Koran mentions a lot scientific concepts that most of the world still had not discovered. Islam encourages learning and science, which is why Muslim countries are among the most successful and technologically advanced in the world, like the Islamic Republic of Iran.

[eyedrop]

What drew me were the anti-materialist (materialist in a literal sense) principles of the religion, that one of the five pillars of Islam is helping those in poverty, and also that Muslims actually implement their religion in their daily lives, pray at least five times a day, greatly respect women (unlike Christians :crying:) and the strong sense of community within the ummah. Every Muslim is my brother/sister. That's a family of about 1.8 billion people!

Also, while the Bible has been edited extensively, things being put in and taken out throughout the centuries, the Holy Koran has remained in its original form, showing that it cannot be corrupted, and must be the word of Allah (swt). In its original Arabic, it is like reading poetry, not like the Bible, which is extremely dull reading. Also, the Koran mentions a lot scientific concepts that most of the world still had not discovered. Islam encourages learning and science, which is why Muslim countries are among the most successful and technologically advanced in the world, like the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Where do you get your information from?

[Marsella]

What drew me were the anti-materialist (materialist in a literal sense) principles of the religion, that one of the five pillars of Islam is helping those in poverty

Charity is the worst kind of reformism.


and also that Muslims actually implement their religion in their daily lives, pray at least five times a day,

What a waste of time.


greatly respect women (unlike Christians :crying:)

It respects them in a paternalistic sexist manner.


and must be the word of Allah (swt). In its original Arabic, it is like reading poetry,

Its like reading fiction then.


Also, the Koran mentions a lot scientific concepts that most of the world still had not discovered.

What - like the afterlife?!


Islam encourages learning and science, which is why Muslim countries are among the most successful and technologically advanced in the world, like the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Iran is successful?

For whom?

Its leaders.

Not for the working class. But I suppose being a Leninist the working class matters little to you.

[Peacekeeper]

Charity is the worst kind of reformism.



What a waste of time.



It respects them in a paternalistic sexist manner.



Its like reading fiction then.



What - like the afterlife?!



Iran is successful?

For whom?

Its leaders.

Not for the working class. But I suppose being a Leninist the working class matters little to you.

Oh yes, of course, my own class matters little to me. :rolleyes: My family has lived under the poverty line all my life, I think I know a thing or two about class antagonisms.

In mainstream Islam, giving alms is the preferred form of helping the poor. This is lazy. I support a working class revolution and a dictatorship of the proletariat. I'm no reformist.

Respects them in a paternalistic sexist way - I suppose. For some reason, wishing to protect the physically weaker sex is considered taboo in the West.

Fiction is prose. Poetry is something else entirely. The Holy Koran is both beautiful and divine, the true word of Allah (swt).

Like that the Earth is a sphere, something even atheists were not in agreement with during the time of the prophet Muhammad, pbuh. :lol:

A waste of time? Looking at it pragmatically, it helps me be a better human being in general, and helps me respect the morals I had long before I came to Islam.

I was referring to the technological and scientific successes in Muslim counties, especially Iran, and their nuclear program. :)

[Marsella]

Oh yes, of course, my own class matters little to me. :rolleyes:
I am glad you admitted it.


My family has lived under the poverty line all my life, I think I know a thing or two about class antagonisms.

Then perhaps you would understand the role religion has in it.

One of encouraging ignorance? Of covering up exploitation? Of mollifying oppression?


In mainstream Islam, giving alms is the preferred form of helping the poor. This is lazy. I support a working class revolution and a dictatorship of the proletariat. I'm no reformist.

So you say. A further examination of what you really stand for, what you consider a dictatorship of the proletariat, what you consider the role of the working class, what you consider the role of a party would probably reveal reactionary viewpoints.

But that goes without saying if you are a self-identified Leninist.


For some reason, wishing to protect the physically weaker sex is considered taboo in the West.

Not really. Generally, the attitude is the same - protect them because they are weak poor women. Paternalism.


The Holy Koran is both beautiful and divine, the true word of Allah (swt).

I could soil my garden with that shit.

1. Prove Allah.

2. Prove that the Koran is the true word of Allah.


Like that the Earth is a sphere, something even atheists were not in agreement with during the time of the prophet Muhammad, pbuh. :lol:


No idea if this is correct but I doubt it (and I hate to break it to you, but the days when the world was considered flat are long passed).


A waste of time? Looking at it pragmatically, it helps me be a better human being in general, and helps me respect the morals I had long before I came to Islam.


In other words, its helping you keep your reactionary morals long before you become a communist.

I suggest you scrap the whole thing.


I was referring to the technological and scientific successes in Muslim counties, especially Iran, and their nuclear program. :)

1. Nuclear engery is not exactly a scientific breakthough.

2. Or related to Islam.

3. Or particular to Islamic countries.

[Phalanx]

No, I wasn't.

I can understand the comfort religion brings, but I can't understand why anyone would subscribe to a single one. No religion defines anyone to the T.

[freakazoid]

Charity is the worst kind of reformism.

Yeah, fuck the poor?

[Dystisis]

I was not brought up religious, my parents are (somewhat militant) atheists. It is not until adulthood that I begun thinking about philosophy and what lies beyond our sensory appreciation of the universe (and, more specifically, what things we can now for sure exists).

[Peacekeeper]

I am glad you admitted it.



Then perhaps you would understand the role religion has in it.

One of encouraging ignorance? Of covering up exploitation? Of mollifying oppression?



So you say. A further examination of what you really stand for, what you consider a dictatorship of the proletariat, what you consider the role of the working class, what you consider the role of a party would probably reveal reactionary viewpoints.

But that goes without saying if you are a self-identified Leninist.



Not really. Generally, the attitude is the same - protect them because they are weak poor women. Paternalism.



I could soil my garden with that shit.

1. Prove Allah.

2. Prove that the Koran is the true word of Allah.



No idea if this is correct but I doubt it (and I hate to break it to you, but the days when the world was considered flat are long passed).



In other words, its helping you keep your reactionary morals long before you become a communist.

I suggest you scrap the whole thing.



1. Nuclear engery is not exactly a scientific breakthough.

2. Or related to Islam.

3. Or particular to Islamic countries.

It was my interpretation that the rolleyes .gif signifies sarcasm.

Religion for the politically unaware can be both beneficial and detrimental. It does encourage ignorance. And in some places, religion does help in the oppression of the lower classes, such as lamaism in Tibet. I'd like to add however that oppression by the influential (government or capitalist class) is expressly forbidden in the Holy Koran.

A dictatorship of the proletariat is direct democracy - a dictatorship of the assembly, you could say. I do support a vanguard party, but not as it has been seen in say, the Russian Revolution, where the Party was separate from the working class, and was lead by, essentially, the aristocracy. A vanguard party run and organized by the working people. While I approve of many of the actions of Lenin, Stalin, and Mao, I do not support the cult of personality that surrounded them. They were merely the figureheads of mass working class movements. The working class is responsible for all victories in a socialist state, not the "leader" of that state.

I don't know if that would be considered reactionary by you, but i suppose it would be, given your apparent disillusionment with Leninism.

Protect the "poor, weak women." Indeed.

Prove Allah (swt), and prove that the Holy Koran is his revelations? I don't have to. Even if Allah (swt) is a group delusion, and Muhammad sat in his cave writing the Koran on his own, Islam is still a powerful force that encourages moral behavior.

And in case you have never taken a world history class, Muslim scientists discovered many things before the West or the Chinese, etc. That's just an indisputable fact.

[Marsella]

Yeah, fuck the poor?

Fuck your pitying attitude born from your own superiority and hiding the fact that only class struggle, on their behalf, is going to change their condition and the future condition of their class.

Fuckwit.

[freakazoid]

Fuck your pitying attitude born from your own superiority

ROFL


and hiding the fact that only class struggle, on their behalf, is going to change their condition and the future condition of their class.

And in the mean time, fuck the poor. Right? House destroyed during hurricane Katrina, or during the Greensburg tornado, etc, well your just fucked because we haven't had our class revolution yet and so I'm not going to help you.

[chimx]

I was raised by two parents who are both religious. My father has his doctorate in theology and my mother has a PhD in physiology. Growing up my father was a priest in an Episcopal church while my mother taught evolutionary biology at colleges -- although I should say it is interesting that for many years my father was agnostic (before I was born), and it was my mother the scientist that was always a firm believer in God.

I became a confirmed Episcopalian when I was 13, and shortly thereafter I became an atheist. My family is very respectful of it. My dad has told me on a few occasions that he is proud of me for not blindly following him in what he believes and being able to make a decision for myself. Nor is he ashamed of the fact that he has an atheist son and will bring it up in religious discussions with friends (some of whom assume that I would be a Christian since he is a priest).

All-in-all I think I'm fairly well rounded for it. I was surrounded by theology books growing up and know a great deal about it as a result. Because my dad has his doctorate in theology we have had many great in depth conversations on the nuances of Christianity, its history, interpretations, etc. It has taught me respect and how to view opinions from a vastly different perspective than my own.

[Marsella]

And in the mean time, fuck the poor. Right? House destroyed during hurricane Katrina, or during the Greensburg tornado, etc, well your just fucked because we haven't had our class revolution yet and so I'm not going to help you.

Wow, if you keep on inventing shit like that in your head you'll be able to start your new religion.

I said that the act of charity is a reformist one - it does not get at the heart of what actually causes poverty, and how to eliminate it.

By all means, go out and organise tin-rattling exercises.

I am interested in a permanent change in society, not one of your pitying sacrifice of several dollars.

[freakazoid]

Created thread on charity, http://www.revleft.com/vb/charity-t78647/index.html?p=1146024#post1146024

[Phalanx]

Maybe, but lasting change takes time. Until your change comes, you're just going to ignore the people you claim you're trying to help.

[redstar2000]

What drew me were the anti-materialist (materialist in a literal sense) principles of the religion, that one of the five pillars of Islam is helping those in poverty, and also that Muslims actually implement their religion in their daily lives, pray at least five times a day, greatly respect women (unlike Christians :crying:) and the strong sense of community within the ummah. Every Muslim is my brother/sister. That's a family of about 1.8 billion people!

Also, while the Bible has been edited extensively, things being put in and taken out throughout the centuries, the Holy Koran has remained in its original form, showing that it cannot be corrupted, and must be the word of Allah (swt). In its original Arabic, it is like reading poetry, not like the Bible, which is extremely dull reading. Also, the Koran mentions a lot scientific concepts that most of the world still had not discovered. Islam encourages learning and science, which is why Muslim countries are among the most successful and technologically advanced in the world, like the Islamic Republic of Iran.You've been smoking the good stuff. :D

[YeOldeCommuniste]

My parents used to be loosely Catholic, they had me baptized, put me through Catholic education classes once a week, and made me get confirmed. However they've become much more relaxed in their beliefs in recent years, and don't really practice religion much at all anymore. My maternal grandmother was really the only strictly religious person in our family, and she passed away last year. My paternal grandmother, however, is an atheist/agnostic (she isn't sure of which, but she's definitely not the Catholic that she was brought up to be), and she taught me about these beliefs along with those of other world religions when I was younger, and I guess that was what helped influence me to renounce my Catholic beliefs and become an atheist.

[Tower of Bebel]

I want to update an earlier post of mine. I think my father has turned his back towards religion.

[careyprice31]

yes and im not religious.

[Kami]

Like that the Earth is a sphere, something even atheists were not in agreement with during the time of the prophet Muhammad, pbuh. http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/laugh.gif No idea if this is correct but I doubt it (and I hate to break it to you, but the days when the world was considered flat are long passed).
A bit late, I know, but just to clear this up; the idea that the world was considered flat in the medieval period is a fabrication; it's a twentieth century phenomenon. We've known the world is round since BCE

[SeekingFreedom]

No, but I am religious.

Religion was never really mentioned at home (I'm 18 now). Not in hostile silence, but in a it's-no-big-deal way. I knew my grandma is Christian, and my father was brought up as a Christian as well, though he decided that it 'wasn't for him'. At my moms home religion was never really there either. So I had no religious influence from home. From age... 11 I think, I decided that there was 'something' but I had no clue what. As young as I was I was pretty modest and conservative. At age 16 I met a Baha'i, and we became close friends. I'd been looking for a religion that suited my personal beliefs, a monotheistic, tolerant one. While investigating the Baha'i faith and learning about it, I felt its' whole concept connecting to the puzzle pieces of my beliefs. In a way no other religion ever did for me. Knowing full well that I could 'drop out' any time I would decide that it wasn't for me after all, I became a Baha'i almost two years ago. From that point I also declared myself straight-edge, even though I never took drugs and only smoked the ocassional cigarette or had the ocassional breezer. I never really liked alcohol or tobacco, so I had no qualms with giving them up. I'm a still a Baha'i today and I still feel that this is the right place to be for me, spiritually.

[Baconator]

I was born a Roman Catholic and raised with a moderate amount of religious influence. There was a period of time , approx 2 yrs , that I became heavily religious to the point of being able to conjure biblical scripture in my head at will. I was going through a down point in my life and Jesus Camp style believers had a profound influence on me ( though later I realized they were just capitalizing on my emotional troubles at the time.)

Then I got over my troubles (actually with little help from the Christians) and became non-practicing and non-religious. Its when I studied anarchist and free market philosophy is when I also discovered what it really means to be rational so Atheism was the logical choice. Now I am a happy Atheist and have embraced logic,reason,and philosophy as my guiding lights.

@freakazoid

How is it truly possible to be both an anarchist and practicing Christian? Or did I misunderstand your post?

[chimx]

There are a lot of Christian anarchists. A founding member of the IWW was a Catholic priest. Dorthy Day also comes to mind. You could even make a stretch and include individualist anarchists like Henry David Thoreau.

[Baconator]

There are a lot of Christian anarchists. A founding member of the IWW was a Catholic priest. Dorthy Day also comes to mind. You could even make a stretch and include individualist anarchists like Henry David Thoreau.

Oh definitely. I never denied that Christian Anarchists actually exist I just question whether the two ideologies are really compatible. Jesus said we cannot serve two masters but he never mentioned anything about not having to serve any master. Furthermore, the holy kingdom speaks of a monarch and throne in which we all live happily so long as we are faithful servants. I don't know about others, but that doesn't sound very anarchistic to me. Of course there are many other reasons that I can point out in how religious doctrine comes into conflict with anarchism.

I have mentioned earlier that one feasible explanation about religious anarchists might be the fact that most religions acknowledge a 'divine law' that is supposed to be of more value than man-made laws of states. 'Divine Law' is very similar to Natural Law which many anarchists and libertarians advocate. I still see a moral contradiction there as I am not really a natural law proponent ( used to be though) and I am not a utilitarian.

[chimx]

'Divine Law' is very similar to Natural Law which many anarchists and libertarians advocate.

I think that is the best explanation of how they make their ideology work with their spiritual beliefs. Most point to scriptures where Jesus said to reject statecraft and political masters and follow the laws of God.

I think it's wise to remember that anarchism grew as a response to material social problems that plagued Europe in the 19th century, so worrying about whether it is in conflict with these idealist/immaterial beliefs seems pretty irrelevant.

[BIG BROTHER]

My mom is a fanatic and my dad is a hipocrite. As I started getting older and reading more, I eventually trashed away religion.

[ManyAntsDefeatSpiders]

There are a lot of Christian anarchists. A founding member of the IWW was a Catholic priest.

I assume you're referring to Thomas J. Hagerty?

He was suspended by the archbishop for urging miners to strike in 1903, several years prior to the IWW being formed (in 1905).

So whilst he considered himself a priest the church didn't and in those days, hell even now, if the Catholic church doesn't consider you a priest, you aren't a priest.

Funnily enough, I came across this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_Christian_socialists) list of American Christian socialists, and was surprised to see Martin Luther King Jr's name on it. :unsure:

[chimx]

So whilst he considered himself a priest the church didn't

I think that is what is important. I imagine most Christian anarchists you'll find resent church hierarchy, especially that of Catholicism.

[ManyAntsDefeatSpiders]

I think that is what is important. I imagine most Christian anarchists you'll find resent church hierarchy, especially that of Catholicism.

Yes I have found this too.

I think they yearn for the, somewhat, decentralized, social nature of the early Christians which also coincides with parts of anarchism.

[chimx]

I think they yearn for the, somewhat, decentralized, social nature of the early Christians which also coincides with parts of anarchism.

I've made my father (an episcopal priest if you read earlier in this thread) read a book or two by anarchist Christian theologians in the past, which he liked a great deal. He made a comment once that it is Christian communities such as monastery's that are one of the only collectivist communities where property does not exist that have stood the test of time. Having visited some in Israel he thought Kibbutzim could be another example had the political realities of that area been more favorable.

And of course, speaking of Dorothy Day, there are also the Catholic Worker Communities, which I admit I know next to nothing about.

Just an interesting observation for those who say that religion is antithetical to the abolition of class and property.

[Nietzsche's Ghost]

My mom was brought up a catholic but she despised it and my dad was a lutheren but they dont go to church so niether did I. they brought me up to believe in god but never had me follow any doctrine. I always sort of laughed at religion and how stupid it was. anytime in school when the theory of evolution is brought up the people in my class always go on about how the earth was formed a few thousand years ago and how we didnt evolve from primates and it always seem strange considering the overwhelming evidence against that. when my grandfather died last february we went to his funeral of course( and me and my brother had to be pall bearers) but i left engraged because the pastor kept going on and on about how my grandfather has sinned and was evil on earth but he accepted jesus and god and would go to heaven. my grandfather was a hard working farmer his entire life and this left little room for him to sin or be evil. Oh yeah, I became an atheist when I started to think logically.:laugh:

[Bastable]

I was raised a christian, before i stopped going to church through laziness. it wasn't till after this that i realized it was a load of crap.

[chimx]

i left engraged because the pastor kept going on and on about how my grandfather has sinned and was evil on earth but he accepted jesus and god and would go to heaven. my grandfather was a hard working farmer his entire life and this left little room for him to sin or be evil.

Wow. That sounds like a terrible priest. You and your family should have every right to feel enraged.

[Bud Struggle]

So whilst he considered himself a priest the church didn't and in those days, hell even now, if the Catholic church doesn't consider you a priest, you aren't a priest.


Not how it works. If you are a valindly ordained Catholic Priest--you ARE a Catholic priest, you can be prohibited from performing priestly duties--but the Church never denies that an ordained person isn't a priest.

[Random Precision]

this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_Christian_socialists) list of American Christian socialists, and was surprised to see Martin Luther King Jr's name on it. :unsure:

Dr. King was indeed a socialist, although I don't know whether he identified himself as one. He was a lot more radical than American history textbooks nowadays give him credit for- he last year of his life was spent in a cross-racial campaign against poverty (the Poor People's Campaign), which necessarily took on capitalism. He also argued that the SCLC needed to fight for guaranteed income for every American. The night before he died he urged black sanitation workers in Memphis to continue their strike.

Anyway, this article (http://www.isreview.org/issues/58/feat-MLK.shtml) sums it up pretty well.

[chimx]

Not how it works. If you are a valindly ordained Catholic Priest--you ARE a Catholic priest, you can be prohibited from performing priestly duties--but the Church never denies that an ordained person isn't a priest.

I had assumed she meant he was excommunicated, which the Church can do. I suppose more information on this would be nice.

[Nietzsche's Ghost]

Wow. That sounds like a terrible priest. You and your family should have every right to feel enraged.

Yeah the same thing happened when my cousin died last year. Oh well I just know that when I die im definatly not going to have a religous funeral like that.

[Svante]

m yfamily are Lutheran. m y morfar he i s the spirituelle person.there are not many Lutheran churche in Outremont so we must go to Westmont.

[Sharon den Adel]

I wasn't raised in a religious household, and I am not religious. (thank God)

[Peacekeeper]

Dr. King was indeed a socialist, although I don't know whether he identified himself as one. He was a lot more radical than American history textbooks nowadays give him credit for- he last year of his life was spent in a cross-racial campaign against poverty (the Poor People's Campaign), which necessarily took on capitalism. He also argued that the SCLC needed to fight for guaranteed income for every American. The night before he died he urged black sanitation workers in Memphis to continue their strike.

Anyway, this article (http://www.isreview.org/issues/58/feat-MLK.shtml) sums it up pretty well.
He did some other things that evening as well.



01/19/98 Newsweek, Page 62

January 6, 1964, was a long day for Martin Luther King Jr. He spent the morning seated in the reserved section of the Supreme Court, listening as lawyers argued New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, a landmark case rising out of King's crusade against segregation in Alabama. The minister was something of an honored guest: Justice Arthur Goldberg quietly sent down a copy of Kings account of the Montgomery bus boycott, "Stride Toward Freedom," asking for an autograph. That night King retired to his room at the Willard Hotel. There FBI bugs reportedly picked up 14 hours of party chatter, the clinking of glasses and the sounds of illicit sex--including King's cries of "I'm f--ing for God" and "I'm not a Negro tonight!"

Note: What is not mentioned in this article is that Martin Luther King was having sex with three White women, one of whom he brutally beat while screaming the above mentioned quotes. Much of the public information on King's use of church money to hire prostitutes and his beating them came from King's close personal friend, Rev. Ralph Abernathy (pictured above), in his 1989 book, "And the walls came tumbling down."
Sources:
Newsweek Magazine 1-19-1998, page 62
"And the walls came tumbling down," by Rev. Ralph Abernathy (1989)

[spartan]

My mother wanted me baptised when i was about 5 or something and seeing how i didnt know what it was (Only that if i didnt have it i wouldnt go to heaven apparently) i simply went through with it.

My dad didnt give a shit about it and isnt religious at all, though mind you neither is my mum really (I think it's just the "tradition" part that attracted my mum to the idea especially with her side of the family).

That means that i have been a member of the Church of England for most of my life:(

The very least she could have done was made me a Presbyterian or a Methodist!

[Peacekeeper]

It seems a lot of people grew up religious only to turn atheist later. I was raised atheist only to turn theist later! I guess we are all just rebels at heart.

[Mirage]

The people I know in life whom I've considered intelligent tend to have been religious if their parents weren't religious and atheist if their parents were religious, while studies show that in the entire populace, only one in ten will break from the religion of their upbringing. I guess I must have a pretty warped sense of who's intelligent and who's not.

[Peacekeeper]

The people I know in life whom I've considered intelligent tend to have been religious if their parents weren't religious and atheist if their parents were religious, while studies show that in the entire populace, only one in ten will break from the religion of their upbringing. I guess I must have a pretty warped sense of who's intelligent and who's not.

1/10? I recall reading that it was a majority, actually. I'll dig up a source tomorrow.

[Bud Struggle]

I'll dig up a source tomorrow.

Literally. :rolleyes:

[Peacekeeper]

Literally. :rolleyes:

Oh wow I completely forgot about this...

Better late than never.

And I was wrong, it was 44%, so it's getting close to a majority. I guess I read it wrong, or it was misrepresented where I read about it originally.

It's from a study by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, which is (according to their website) a non-partisan organization.

[Dyslexia! Well I Never!]

I am not religious my parents aren't either really they got me christened because it was "the done thing" but apart from that it's just about arrivals and departures* for me.

*For those who have no idea what that means
arrivals and departures-(a phrase of my own invention)-
I will endure a church service for a christening, wedding or funeral to which I personally am invited, but nothing else.

[hekmatista]

Raised Catholic, exposed to systematic theology. Broke with it at thirteen. Never went back.

[Mala Tha Testa]

i wasn't really "brought up" religious, but within the last, i'd say, 3 or 4 years my mom became religious and early on she made me go to chruch with her. but i stopped and decided to stay home sunday mornings with my dad, and since my mom wasn't there we'd have more fun. i didn't know what to vote exactly, i voted yes but i'm not, just 'cause for the first year or two she really tried to cram my head full of the bullshit.

[progressive_lefty]

Brought up Catholic, became Atheist after reading the Da Vinci Code. lol

It actually took me a while to become an athiest, I guess I was an agnostic for a bit there, but now I have now issues with my rejection of religion.

[Red Romeo]

Raised protestant kind of, but never really went to church with any regularity, and just never had any legitimate belief. My aunt hates me for this lol.

[Comrade Nadezhda]

No, I was not brought up religious. Been in a church only a couple times but only for funerals. That aside, I am not religious on the basis of science. The existence of a "creator" much less a "god" can never be proven. There is no material proof. Science can refute all religious claims. Marxism-Leninism is also scientific, so "atheism" is very much a redundant term for me to use, as marxism-leninism implies that the existence of everything is scientific and is therefore, not religious.

Also science implies that anything that is a "possibility" probably DOES NOT exist, therefore to say that religion and science can be integrated is impossible, unless you bend science for the sake of religion, which is just unscientific in nature.

[Socialist18]

Nope, I remain agnostic at best.

[RedAnarchist]

I am not religious my parents aren't either really they got me christened because it was "the done thing" but apart from that it's just about arrivals and departures* for me.

*For those who have no idea what that means
arrivals and departures-(a phrase of my own invention)-
I will endure a church service for a christening, wedding or funeral to which I personally am invited, but nothing else.

I like to use "match and dispatch" myself:lol:

[Labor Shall Rule]

I descend from a line of Irish Catholics, and I was recently 'confirmed' into the Church. Of course I'm not a Catholic - the unchanging and moralizing view of human nature that is centered on concepts of the patriarchal family (and the reactionary views on homosexuality and women's rights that comes out of it) are not compatible with materialist thought. But I definitely needed the cash that would come from a confirmation after-party.

A lot of my friends are Catholics though, and many of them are leftist to the core. The Church (here in western Pennsylvania) has a tradition of generally being 'pro-worker'. My grandfather's first job was at a cannery, and when they went on strike, it was St. Stephens, a small Church, that set up tents and food-lines for the (mostly Irish and Polish) workers. There is no "class ethic" built into religion per se, even if some religions originate in a particular class in a particular historical period, so we can easily say that while there are Romeros in the Church, there are also Utsas. While there are St. Stephen's that help strikers, or rally behind civil right's or Black liberation causes, there also steeples full of anti-Jew bigots also.

[Lost In Translation]

I wasn't raised religious, but I had lots of religious friends. However, they weren't extremely religious (i.e. they don't talk about it during school).

[StrictlyRuddie]

I was raised religious, I had to attend a catholic school since middle school to High school. I rejected the faith after my conformation around 8th grade though. Dogma, oppression, and discrimination didn't sound as great as they made it sound during church.

[feminist dyke whore]

Both sets of my grandparents are catholic, (my grandma was a nun and taught scripture at schools), My mother is a mixture of agnostic and "weak" atheism, my dad is a "strong" atheist. As a child I guess I believed in a sort of "God" because of my mothers agnostic tendencies and religion, especially Christianity being so saturated within society. Recently I've become a 'strong' atheist.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Both of my parents are fundamentalist christians... My father's a catholic and my mother's a baptist... they've been seperated since I was born effectively. I find it highly amusing that my dad got me christened a Catholic behind my mothers back :lol:

I've been brought up by my mother, and ever since I can remember I had christian beliefs instilled on me... I used to go to church as well as to my mother's "fellowship", which was like church but more informal...

One thing which really sticks out - and to which I credit my transition to atheism - was attending "christian camp" once or twice a year during my school holidays. When you're about 8, your one week school holiday is EVERYTHING. The last thing any child should be occupying themselves with during that week is christian camp. We were taught corrupted versions of the hokey cokey (you do the hokey cokey and you turn around, that's what its all about *everyone rushes in the middle* WHOAAAAH JESUS LOVES US *rush out and repeat*). It was sadistic.

At that point it occured to me that no benevolent higher power would subject his subjects to that. As such, there was either no god, or he was not worth worshiping.

[Malakangga]

Yes,and i'm not too religious. I'm a Moslem

[revolution inaction]

I was brought up as a johovers witness, but never thought about it for years, it was just this thing you where suppose to do. When I did think about it I decided that it was massively improbable that god existed and that if it turned out god was really then he needed to be over thrown, and so I became an agnostic, then an atheist.

[MarxSchmarx]

I descend from a line of Irish Catholics, and I was recently 'confirmed' into the Church. Of course I'm not a Catholic - the unchanging and moralizing view of human nature that is centered on concepts of the patriarchal family (and the reactionary views on homosexuality and women's rights that comes out of it) are not compatible with materialist thought. But I definitely needed the cash that would come from a confirmation after-party.Unfortunately, unless you are explicitly excommunicated, cannon law dictates that you are counted among their minions as a Roman Catholic if you are so much as baptized. And, because the Holy Church is infallible, it is up to them, not you, to decide whether you are Catholic and meet the criteria for excommunication.

[Trystan]

Interesting poll. 38% were not raised in a religious group? And they say that the vast majority of atheists come from a religious background.

Both my parents are non-religious. My mother is atheist and my father apatheist. I am an atheist, too.

[Uber]

I was brought up an atheist but i went to a very religious school and so quite a bit of that seeped into me.

That however is all gone now and i'm completely atheist.

[MarxSchmarx]

my father apatheist.

I've never seen this term. Does this mean someone who doesn't care about religion?

[TheGonz]

" I eventually realized that to be a Christian actually meant to also be an anarchist/communist."

I don't mean to be insulting or anything, but that is an extreme oxymoron. To be a Christian, part of an organized faith of people with similar if not identical beliefs is to completely disembowl the entire idea of anarchism. I'm not even an anarchist and I know, for a fact, that religion and anarchism have nothing in common. Religion couldn't survive in an environment where anarchy reigns--at least not any organized religion--, nor could anarchy prevail where the "word of god" is law. Look at europe during the middle ages, when it was illegal, by penalty of death, not to be a christian. You want to call that anarchism? That society was one of the most oppressive and formulated--not to mention corrupt, intolerable, and outrageously diabolical--systems ever to grace the planet with its regrettably irreversable presence. I'm not saying you shouldn't have faith if it helps you get by, but to compare these two things as synonymous is outrageous, and an insult to people who know the true evils of Christianity, and the plague it dons on society.

[hunterkyrie]

I was baptized Presbyterian, and went to a Presbyterian church until I was 12. I also, on several occasions, attended a protestant church as well with my friend.

I do consider myself a theist. But can't tell you what "truth" is. I can have an idea about God, but I haven't been everywhere in the cosmos. And to prove such a being as God to exist within a tangible realm is impossible. At least, up until now it still is.

I also do not prescribe to any religion. I feel that they are another institute to divide us into being hostile towards one another; Even though most, if not all religions are inherently peaceful (Not including the crazies)
I would hate for people to make a preconceived notion of me simply because of what religion I am. So I don't have one.

[JimmyJazz]

^I was also baptized Presbyterian.

My family is pretty hardcore: my mom is a religious nut ("maybe AIDS is God's punishment for being teh gay!"), while my dad is a little more softspoken and rational on the surface, but deep down I think he is just as sincere in believing the bullshit. Also, he is an elder in their church and has been for like 7 or 8 years.

I still go to church on occasion to make them happy. Somehow, the pastor at their church doesn't piss me off the way most religious spokespersons do. But he does propogate the same tired bullshit, so I usually sit there thinking critically about organized religion as an institution, rather than getting annoyed at the individual in the pulpit like I would at some other churches.

I am more or less critical of all religion, including "open-minded" religions like Unitarianism and Buddhism, for reasons I gave here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/jesus-anti-revolutionary-t86491/index.html?p=1226086).

[Comrade B]

My grandfather was a protestant, my grandmother a catholic, and my father had to attend a catholic school where they told him regularly that his father was going to hell.

On the other side, we were working class Germans with nothing to do with the church. Fighting for Germany in Hitler's war while your friends and family are being killed by him can also really change your belief in a God.

[spice756]

wow this thread ''Were you brought up religious?'' But also a thread religious and atheist.I thought this long thread would be split by now .



Well, I wasnt raised in a religious family, and I am not religious myself. I think that its the responsibility of parents not to indoctrinise the child, while the child is still growing up, because usualy the parents have a very big influence on the child.


You don't just learn religion at home :lol:You can learn it at church or school.Or any organization.Also the people you hang out with.



Anyway, I am Mexican, and Mexicans are so devoutly Catholic that its scary. So I tend to keep my atheism to myself.
Islam



That is stereotype .

---

And for the other people saying Islam suppress womens rights :( I think it is more of a culture than a religion .

But all countries have done this.It was not to ww2 in the US that women where allowed to work.

And it was not along ago they could not vote.

[Pero's Pen]

All members of my immediate family are devout Lutherans; I also was until about age nine or ten when I first started to question Christian teachings using syllogism: God created all the world, evil exists in the world, therefore God created evil. God creating evil is contradictory to Christian teachings. After I realised this, I gradually stopped believing in a God until about age fourteen when I stopped believing altogether, I am quite happy my mind is no longer bound by Christian doctrine.

[jasmine]

Is the choice - atheism or acceptance of organised religion (christian, muslim etc.)?

Can you not have your own personal views about the possibility that we exist beyond the physical without belonging to a religious group, or rejecting science, or rejecting leftist politics?

It's possible that viewing the human being as a spiritual being may make you more sympathetic to the idea of universal human rights, the right to live, the right to a decent life, the right to live without persecution, the right to have enough to eat.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Is the choice - atheism or acceptance of organised religion (christian, muslim etc.)?

Can you not have your own personal views about the possibility that we exist beyond the physical without belonging to a religious group, or rejecting science, or rejecting leftist politics?
You can, but then you have to ask yourself, "if my views are true, and if this truth can be discovered by anyone through reasoning or introspection, why am I the only person who holds these views?"

Whatever the truth is, it must be either easily discovered - in which case we should expect large numbers of people to believe it, as in organized religion - or difficult to discover - in which case you can't expect to discover it unless you have some extraordinary experience or insight that no one else had before.

So, basically, unless you have some extraordinary experience or insight that no one else had before, the only two reasonable choices for you are organized religion or atheism.

[Demogorgon]

I've never seen this term. Does this mean someone who doesn't care about religion?

It means you do not think it matters whether there is a God or not. As with all things there are differing definitions. Some apatheists are not interested in discussing the whole religious question because they see it as pointless. Some are happy to discuss religion and the like and may even hold strong views about the existence of God, but do not regard it as having any bearing on society or human affairs in general. Some consider Marx to be an apatheist as his social theory simply did not include any God. There is no God in class struggle according to Marx and because class struggle is the core driver of human society, God is irrelevant. It is a view I tend towards myself as it happens. Discussions of God are very interesting of course ad I will happily put my view forward, but I do not see it as being at all relevant to human society.

[F9]

i was born in religious-"orthodox" christian family.i have baptized,my name and surname are both christian "names",but who gives a fuck anymore,i am an atheist,anti-theist!

Fuserg9:star:

[maverick]

I was born in a religious family (mainly a Christian-Catholic family). For the most part my family, excluding some of the extended members, are not morbidly religious. I personally am agnostic, and no longer follow my raised beliefs. I though however, have actually met some intellgent, rational religious people. So I tend to be more tolerant of them than others.

[jasmine]

You can, but then you have to ask yourself, "if my views are true, and if this truth can be discovered by anyone through reasoning or introspection, why am I the only person who holds these views?"


Well, the difference here is that you are talking about "the truth" and I am talking about what people believe to be true. Are the teachings of Christ true? Are the teachings of Muhammad true? Are the teachings of the Buddha true? The reality is that even if you belong to a popular religion you still have to choose. And then within each religion there are factions and sects and numerous different interpretations of the same texts. So there's even more choice.


Whatever the truth is, it must be either easily discovered - in which case we should expect large numbers of people to believe it, as in organized religion - or difficult to discover - in which case you can't expect to discover it unless you have some extraordinary experience or insight that no one else had before.

Again you suppose there is a single truth to be discovered or revealed. There really isn't any text that explains everything or that gets close to that.

[cleef]

I was brought up a Catholic but i am not religious if anything i am a dystheist

[Killfacer]

I was born into an extremely left wing, extremely athiest family. And although i was free to choose my beliefs, i chose athiesm as it seemed the most sensible answer. Just to prove that i was not brainwashed, my twin brother believed in god for many years.

[Bud Struggle]

I was born into an extremely left wing, extremely athiest family. And although i was free to choose my beliefs, i chose athiesm as it seemed the most sensible answer. Just to prove that i was not brainwashed, my twin brother believed in god for many years.

You brother is Facekiller? ;):)

Just curious, how did your athiest parents take to having a kid that believed in God? They bother him about if or did they leave him alone--especiall when he was younger?

[don]

I was raised in a religious family and many are still strongly religious. When one looks around and see how religion has been the source of so much suffering and tragedy in the world, how can you believe in it? Having been in the military and literally having religion shoved down your throat, I became active in the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. I am one of those that scratches out the word god, printed on our currency. I support any organization or group that presses for a godless country. I don’t believe in the pledge of allegiance as it is, but to have to hear the words, under god, makes me sick. Atheists will prevail in time. People are seeing the uselessness in the faith, religion and a god.

[Killfacer]

You brother is Facekiller? ;):)

Just curious, how did your athiest parents take to having a kid that believed in God? They bother him about if or did they leave him alone--especiall when he was younger?


They said nothing to him about it, they neither encouraged or stopped it. I was the only person who challenged him on it, apparently we used to have childish arguments about the existance of god when we were 7.

[graffic]

There is a difference between being "religious" and being a christian, Muslim or sikh whatever.

For me my mum is a christian, but my Dads an atheist. My mum, however, hates "religion". She still has 100% faith in God though.

I consider myself agnostic, having been raised almost a christian

[Madvillainy]

Raised catholic even though my mother was an atheist and my dad is agnostic, I think my grandparents had a lot of influence on how I was brought up and they were probably the reason I went to church and was baptised etc etc. I was even an alter boy for fucks sake. :blushing:

I haven't believed in God since I was about 12.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I was never brought up with any specific faith, but my mother always encouraged me and my siblings to experience religion just to see what it's like. She wanted us to make our own choice whether to choose religion or not. Both me and my older sister choose atheism.

[Vlad tdf]

my mother and dad are catholic they baptised me and stuffs i even went to catholic school and stufs i belived lot of time in god but i didn't try to explain things i just belived it now i'n atheist because i asked myself lots of things and i realize i was an idiot beeing catholic now i am wery against religion i hate religion it's a big bullshit full of lies .Now i'm working with my parent's trying to explain them god is unreal but it doesn't seem to work wery well :( But i don't give up .Only thong that fuck's me up is my brother he is so religious and stuffs he goes to church so often because he think's it'a sin not going to church.In my country atheist are threat like idiot's and people are so against us .Y think religion will autodestroy in time.I know lots about religion about catholic religion and this is what helped me realize it's a bullshit.

[Patchd]

Was brought up to believe a lot of Buddhist bollocks, and then turned around and said lol wut? ...in other words, atheist now.

[Sankofa]

Religion and me are a little complicated...

For the record, I voted Yes, but I am not religious

I was raised by parents who were Southern Baptists. African-Americans tend to be over-zealous when it comes to religion and the way they tried to pour religion down my throat really turned me off. I was forced to go to church 4 times a week, and I would get beaten by my Dad every time I would fall asleep during the pastor's fairy tale ramblings.

As a teenager, I ended up completely renouncing religion for a while, then went through an Muslim phase (Nation of Islam). After that failed to satisfy me, I started reading Black Panther books, which then put me on to communism, and therefore Atheism.

WHEW! It's funny, looking from the outside in, you realize who ridiculously stupid religious people are and it scares me to think I was actually one of them for a time. :unsure:

[LOLseph Stalin]

I started reading Black Panther books, which then put me on to communism, and therefore Atheism.


Most Communists are atheist, but I decided on atheism even before I became radical. My older sister is also atheist, but probably not radical. I'm pretty sure i'm the only radical in my family. I don't ask things like that nor do I plan to.

[Dragonsign]

Raised in a personal christian social-democratic home :closedeyes:

[LOLseph Stalin]

Raised in a personal christian social-democratic home http://www.revleft.com/vb/were-you-brought-p1278466/revleft/smilies2/closedeyes.gif

Social-democratic? At least that's a start. My family isn't even all that interested in politics. How I became radical out of that, I have no idea...

[PostAnarchy]

1. No was not brought up religious
2. Thankfully I am not religious

:)

[Bud Struggle]

1. No was not brought up religious
2. Thankfully I am not religious

:)

But then again--you were raised by wolves. :lol:

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I was brought up in a Mormon family.

I left the church and stopped going a few years back, but it's not because I don't believe it. I do, I just don't like following it. I'm going to burn with all of you when the time comes.

[Ele'ill]

I was not brought up in a very religious family but we went to church occasionally.

I was part of a youth group and went on retreats into the mountains.

The reason I stuck with it was because I enjoyed the retreats. What can I say, I enjoy free camping trips.

Some of the pastors and I had talks about consumerism and autonomous living which was great. I enjoy thinking about the concept of a god and from debates and constant thinking about god I rejected the main stream idea.

It always struck me as idiotic that so many christians are preaching that so few people are going to get into heaven.

Psychologically, they're probably not trying to convert people as much as ideologically 'off' everyone through conversion. The more bad (common) people they convert the more people their god hates which in their eyes gives them a better chance of making it into heaven.

If a scenario unfolded where one christian converter and ten other new convertees were left at god's gates, I'm pretty sure the christian converter would feel slighted.

[Invincible Summer]

Brought up by two Evangelical Christian parents, went to a Catholic private primary school (for some reason...) and went to church for 15 years.

I am an atheist who abhors Christians who have that "I'll be real glad to show you Jesus Christ!" attitude. I usually tone down my anti-Christian views in the presence of more tame Christians, but once they start up *shakes fist*

[PigmerikanMao]

Brought up by two Evangelical Christian parents, went to a Catholic private primary school (for some reason...) and went to church for 15 years.

ouch. :(

[Mecha_Shiva]

I was raised catholic, so I was raised feeling guilty for everything I did and with a constant fear of burning in hell. I didn't get anything out of church except I hated listening to the weird singing, the priest was boring, I hated kneeling then standing every five seconds, it was bullshit I had to pray for every bead on a neckalace thirty times for god to know I was sorry, communion was creepy and I would defanintly rather be home playing all those sunday mornings.
What was worse was that only my mom was religious, so my dad would stay home while she took me to church and would make fun of me for having to go.
:laugh: I do love my dad though. He let me pick to not do confirmation or whatever. After that my mom stopped going. I think she only went because she would have felt guilty if she didn't take me...? But now that I think about it, she has never introduced any religion to my lttle sister at all? Now that I think about it what the helll? :crying:

[Dóchas]

i was brought up in a non denominational family and my parents just encouraged me to accept God. i wouldnt say i am very religious but i do belive in God and i dont find it gets in the way of my revolutionary thinking :)

[Kassad]

Raised Catholic and I was confirmed into the Church. By force, might I note. I am an atheist.

[Killfacer]

I was brought up in a Mormon family.

I left the church and stopped going a few years back, but it's not because I don't believe it. I do, I just don't like following it. I'm going to burn with all of you when the time comes.

See hes going to hell with the rest of us, he should be unrestricted.

[OneNamedNameLess]

I was brought up as a Catholic. Now I do not rule out the possibilty that there could be some form of exsistence beyond our physical one her. However, I am in no way religious as I seen through the folly of religion a few years ago.

[lombas]

Like many people in Belgium, my parents are café-catholics: meaning, they were baptized and don't give a fuck, but I had to go through all of it as well.

I spent my primary, secondary school (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xaveriuscollege_(Borgerhout)) ánd university (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Antwerp) with the Jesuits.

Like hell I'm religious. :D

[Bud Struggle]

Like many people in Belgium, my parents are café-catholics: meaning, they were baptized and don't give a fuck, but I had to go through all of it as well.

I spent my primary, secondary school (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xaveriuscollege_(Borgerhout)) ánd university (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Antwerp) with the Jesuits.

Like hell I'm religious. :D

I spent my university (http://www.georgetown.edu/) with the Jesuits,too. :)

[StalinFanboy]

I was brought up by my dad in an Evangelical church. The good ole Assemblies of God.

[butterfly]

I was extremely lucky to be free from such oppression as a child
Though I was taken to a buddhist temple to partake in meditation classes at one point, there wasn't someone watching me 24/7 ready to send me to the pits of hell if I didn't obey their rules.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Not at all, my family is a bunch of commies! :D

[brigadista]

yep - convent schools ...nuff said..

[casper]

my mom goes to a free Methodist church, used to take us as kids. now doesn't really bother even getting me up in the morning on sundays, i've talked to her and she seems half way cool with my disbelief. especially now that i'm older. dad and sis believes but not very involved with church, and my oldist brother is more openly dependent on his faith. i believe my other brother is atheist or agnostic or something. me, well i'm beyound religion.

[Comrade Anarchist]

when i was young up untill i was about 13 i was a devout christian and even thought about being a preacher but when i reached 14 i started questioning all of the bible and i started to lose faith as i started to understand science more. now im an antitheist and believe in the destruction of all beliefs.

[Glorious Union]

I was brought up in a Catholic household with extreme christian-American values. I am still religious today, but not Christianity or any other organised religion for that matter.

[Bitter Ashes]

Both of my parents are atheist, my Dad is very vocal about it too, possibly, in part due to his background in science.
I dont have contact with them any more, but I share those beliefs too. It's bad enough telling people what to do, but telling people what to think is a very large step too far.

[eisidisirock]

I was born a Jehova's Witness. Ok, Religion. Not that bad.

[Dave_OI!]

was born into a very southern baptist household. i became disillusioned with it around 13 or 14. although im not religious in any way i stil believe in god in some form or another.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

Raised by conservative Baptist parents. Realized it was BS when I was about 12. :D

[Jazzratt]

I was born a Jehova's Witness. Ok, Religion. Not that bad.

One of my friends was born with a damaged heart, as a result she had to have a lifesaving operation involving augmenting her heart and carrying out a blood transfusion. Anyway someone from that mob decided to tell her that god would forgive her for the "sin" of having that operation. There are many other examples of this kind of thing in JW groups (people allowing their kids to die because of the surgery involved in saving them being one of the more harrowing examples.).

Were you unaware of this aspect of JW doctrine?

[thinkerOFthoughts]

My whole family is extremely Christian but I broke those chains of oppression (well in my mind I did lol)

[ibn Bruce]

Raised by Academics that are broadly agnostic. Gave up scripture class at 9 and became a practising Atheist.

Converted to Islam at 20, much surprise ensued. Parents are cool, Mum is happy with the tokenism of having a Muslim son and Dad thinks it has changed me completely (in a good way). Then again my Grandma disowned me and I had to leave 2 jobs. :)