Holocaust and religion

[Vargha Poralli]

I am just curious how the Christian(catholic and protestant),Jewish and Islamic theologist reaction to the Holocaust was in the line of their respective theology.

They claim that their gods are omnipotent and knows everything that is happening and going to happen. Then how did their gods let this greatest evil thing go on without any divine intervention ?

I am just interested in Historical perspective. So please provide some analyses with sources.

[Demogorgon]

Oh we heard a great deal about this at school. In this country there isn't a seperation of church and state so you have to get religious education. And naturally people like me are quick to ask "Where was God in Auswitch?" Well of course the answer is their get out clause of "Free Will".

They say God leaves people free to choose, and the Nazi's chose to treat the jews like that. Inadequate in my opinion, but there you go.

[Vargha Poralli]

well could you provide some historical sources

I knew Pope supported the Nazi against the godless-communists. What is the Church's(both catholic and protestant) churches response to this event at that time ? I mean after the Nazis were defeated and all their crimes have been exposed ?

[ichneumon]

1After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here am I.”
2He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” (Gen. 22:1-2)

god has demanded such things of his people in the past...

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 08:16 am
Oh we heard a great deal about this at school. In this country there isn't a seperation of church and state so you have to get religious education. And naturally people like me are quick to ask "Where was God in Auswitch?" Well of course the answer is their get out clause of "Free Will".

They say God leaves people free to choose, and the Nazi's chose to treat the jews like that. Inadequate in my opinion, but there you go.
well if you believe in the religion the whole thing becomes absolutely pointless in the absence of free will so there you go

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 09:54 am

1After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here am I.”
2He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” (Gen. 22:1-2)

god has demanded such things of his people in the past...
that was a test of faith he didn't actually make him kill his son

[Idola Mentis]

Oh. That's okay then - cancels out all the other murderous orders carried out. God must have known if he was capable of doing it to begin with, so finding out can't have been the reason. Sadism, maybe?

[ichneumon]

that was a test of faith he didn't actually make him kill his son

Abraham didn't know that. neither did the jews who passively got into the cattle cars. that was the point. god demands blind obedience in all things. look at job - horrible things happen to good people because god didn't want to lose a bet. you don't get to question. there are no answers.

[Vargha Poralli]

Well everybody had misunderstood my question. Anyway no offense I have searched it in google which brought up this WIKI - Holocaust theology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_theology).

I was looking for this type of work.

My greatest interest was as put up in the wiki
Within all the monotheistic faiths many answers (theodicies) have been proposed. However, in light of the magnitude of evil seen in the Holocaust, many people have re-examined classical views on this subject. Many people have asked, "How can people still have any kind of faith after the Holocaust?"

Can we discuss about this ?

I think it is a very important issue reagrding the religions the fact that it has survived this greates question is very much crucial.

[Severian]

It's a subset of a much older theological problem - the "problem of evil", aka "theodicy". It's especially a problem for monotheistic religions like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

If God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good, why is there so much evil and suffering in the world? The oldest answer is in the Biblical book of Job, where God says he's tormenting Job, basically, because He can, because He's so powerful that Job shouldn't dare question Him.

Theologians have invented other excuses over the millenia, but none of them are logically valid. If you're interested in this, you can look up "theodicy" or the "problem of evil" on Wikipedia or other places.

You're right that the Holocaust renewed interest in the subject, but AFAIK didn't result in anything really new being said about it.

There's a funny novel about the problem of evil, "Blameless in Abaddon" by James Morrow. It's about a lawyer who sues God for his many crimes against humanity.

[freakazoid]

lol, oh brother.

I suggest a book by Lee Strobel, either The Case fo Christ or The Case for Faith, I think it's the faith one.


Can we discuss about this ?

Why should they lose faith?


The oldest answer is in the Biblical book of Job, where God says he's tormenting Job, basically, because He can, because He's so powerful that Job shouldn't dare question Him.

That's what it says huh? lol XD

[Fawkes]

Can we discuss about this ?

I think it is a very important issue reagrding the religions the fact that it has survived this greates question is very much crucial.

The book Night by Elie Wiesel talked about this issue. The book is a first-hand account of the Holocaust written by an Auschwitz survivor. The author talks about how many of the young people began losing faith once they were finally boarded onto the trains to be taken to the camps --- but how the older people were unrelenting in holding on to their faith. The people that refused to let go of their faith seem to believe that --- though there is evil in the world --- God is behind it all working his plans in a way that will eventually benefit his followers. I think the reason why it was old people who refused to let go of their faith is because they have believed in it their entire, very long, lives and they know of nothing else. Most of the young people, on the other hand, had yet to really have to deal with hardship and loss, and as a result, they were not as attached to God as the older people were because many of the older people were able to get through --- at least in their minds --- what they've been through due to a belief in God. That is the reason why they were unwilling to let go of their belief in a higher power. Why should they when --- in their minds --- God has gotten them through everything else in their lives? The continuing belief in a god following such "evil" things as the Holocaust is carried on the shoulders of the survivors, because many of them believe that God was the one that got them through what they got through, and as a result, their belief in God is often even stronger than before.

Sorry if parts of that didn't make sense, it's 2:00 in the morning and I'm very tired.

[Vargha Poralli]

It's a subset of a much older theological problem - the "problem of evil", aka "theodicy". It's especially a problem for monotheistic religions like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

I looked up and really they were informative. The faith in which I had been brought up didn't have this problem so this thing was new to me.


Why should they lose faith?

Look like this. Many Jews who could have afforded to bribe had escaped the Nazis.Two prominent examples are Albert Einstein and Sigmund Freud .Only those who can't afford to bribe their butchers faced with the disaster. It is not only Jews but also millions of Roma people and other who were deemed unfit for the Reich such as Communists,Socialists etc.

If God is the protector of the weakest why did he did nothing to save those who weer really weakest ones.


The continuing belief in a god following such "evil" things as the Holocaust is carried on the shoulders of the survivors, because many of them believe that God was the one that got them through what they got through, and as a result, their belief in God is often even stronger than before.

Well said. I was thinking about it.

But anyway I also think that if God had been ominipotent those who have died after all those ordeals should also have been saved.