effects of capitalism on hip-hop/rap music

[R_P_A_S]

If mentioned before that I'm an aspiring urban music producer. However even before I got into marxism I was very critical about how commercialized this music has become. And now with class consciousness and knowledge of communism, etc. I am even MORE critical and uneasy about my future in the music game.

I would like to work with innovative artist, political and highly creative... something edgy yet really artistic to the point people can actually dance to it, feel good and gain some knowledge from the lyrics, I would like the artist I work with to have lyrics that can inspire and leave a mark in some ones mind!

If you pay attention to how rap has evolve its plain to see how capitalism and everything that comes with it has completely taken over the music. from the artist no longer being artist just corporate label puppets, artistic freedom is out the window... numbers, sales, money, points are more important on determining a good song as opposed to music and talent.
The entrepreneurship is incredible...from energy drinks to clothing lines. these once urban, down to earth proletariat have become bourgeoisie themselves to the image of their record label bosses.

The community and the struggle has been left in the ghetto, they moved out the ghetto and have become yet more ignorant and capitalist. (the artist)

But just how capitalism comes with all of that, It also comes with a decline correct? To the point it can no longer help anyone progress, or fix problems. the very same thing is happening to Rap Music.

EVERYTHING has been done! the sexism, the night club, champagne, getting drunk, getting shot at, homophobia, the gangs, the dissin' the product branding, advertising and the glorification of capitalism through materialism...

Rap is no longer creative. listen to these clowns... its on a decline...because there's an overwhelming amount of "artist" who all have the same exact shit to "rap about" I don't see rap music moving forward at all. It's bound to tank. I mean look at the influence it has cause on todays youth? fans of the music are perhaps the less intelligent out of average teenagers.

they are more concern and aware of the products their favorite rapper is talking about, and the style of shoes...than they are about real world issues.

Some say it's entertainment and that it shouldn't be taken seriously. But many kids never grow up. and you see the 29 year old still thinking high school got out last year. These guys aren't doing SHIT to help or reach out to the community that gave them the material to sell themselves out to corporate music industry money making bastards.. the record label CEOs and Bosses.

they sold the people out to become...... CEO's and bosses them selves!!!

while the next generation is left to rot in the slums surrounded by their ignorant "music" and influence to look up to.

[kurohata]

yeah, i get what your saying man. ive recently been getting into more hip-hop, but finding it really hard to listen to alot of it because of the lyrical content.

the likes of nwa and public enemy were really dissapointing, because although they do have a good level of awareness on some issues, they are completely ignorant of others (sexism and heterosexism)

then you have the more recent stuff like immortal technique who isnt too bad, except for his quite explicit use of the words "fag" and "gay" and such which i find really hard to tollerate.

then you have dead prez, who i find musically really amazing. and their album "lets get free" was pretty decent on a political/lyrical level, but they completely sold out on "rbg".
im guessing you know what im talking about, but if you or anyone else wants id be happy to find some lyrics between the two albums that are highly hypocritical of each other.

but yeah, its totally not cool that these guys choose to play ignorance to their pasts once they hit they big time, and its quite dissapointing - seeing the influence that they have - that if they were perhaps a little less ignorant, or less controled purely by money, that they could have HUGE positive impact on the youth of today.

anyway, good luck man, i really hope you find some good artists, and do the best you can to help get it out there

[MarxistFuture]

Immortal Technique is okay, although I agree that his liberal use of discriminatory language such as those pointed out above can be hard to listen to over time.

I still believe 2Pac is the best overall rapper. Some of his work before Death Row, even some of his DR stuff, was excellent, and carries a message with it also.

[kurohata]

ive never really listened to 2pac.
what can you suggest i download?

[MarxistFuture]

Keep Ya Head Up
They Don't Give a Fuck About Us
Who Do You Believe In?
Trapped
Brendas Got A Baby
Me Against The World

Try some of them, pretty good, good messages in them as well.

[Demogorgon]

Well rap isn't personally my thing, so I'll keep it brief, but obviously it has been quite popular as of late which means it will be heavily commodified and turned into big business by capitalism. But if you look at the more underground and independent artists you will surely find music unaffected by this. It is the same in any genre.

[The Grey Blur]

Listen to the Coup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-rIWUAQuI

[abrupt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 02:07 pm
Well rap isn't personally my thing, so I'll keep it brief, but obviously it has been quite popular as of late which means it will be heavily commodified and turned into big business by capitalism. But if you look at the more underground and independent artists you will surely find music unaffected by this. It is the same in any genre.
it is very true that in the underground you will find many non-capitalists who do have a real message in there songs, much much more then the mainstream.

sometimes artists that are like this also may have some songs that can have some offending lyrics.

tonedeff
mr sos
wordsworth
substantial

ect... all have some songs that can come off as offending, but they are still very good artists that are out of the normal that rap about chains and rims.

athletic mic league is one of the best names i can come up with off the top of my head for people to listen to on here.


and for the people that like KRS... in reality he is a sheisty hypocritical liar. do not be fooled.

[R_P_A_S]

im not talking about underground artist. im talking about the mainstream and about its effects on the community. the destruction within.

[Pirate Utopian]

Do you think they should stay in the ghetto?, they dont per se need to go into mansion but do you think they should stay?

[phoenixoftime]

As a progressive rock musician with almost zero knowledge of rap history, I can't comment too much on the effects of commercialism specific to that genre. But I think anyone involved with the music industry today will agree that the record industry bosses are entirely disconnected from those creating music, and those who listen to it (critically). Ever since the founding of The Hit Factory in the 1980s, music production has focussed on creating a commodity which is highly targeted to a pre-existing audience and can be used to market other products to this group effectively.

It has got to the point where music is created specifically to market other products. Pepsi created an advertorial song which reached #20 on the Australian charts. Later in her career, Britney Spears appeared to be nothing more than an advertisement for Sony Discmans. Casual footwear, clothing... need I go on.

A climate of fear is now spreading throughout the industry. Musicians can no longer create the sounds they desire; if you want a contract, you need to make instant dollars for all involved. Hence we have a situation where everyone on the radio seems to sound the same, to avoid risking any record-mogul's dollars.

But IMO you are correct on the issue of creativity. A contact I have in a record store chain said that their chart sales have fallen by over 30%, and this slide continues. Although this may have something to do with digital downloads, the fact that they are having to reposition themselves toward stocking less mainstream and more niche genre music says something. The quality of today's manufactured, over-produced music is terrible, and consumers are beginning to realize that.

[SanPatricio'sSoul]

Well I tend to look at Rap Music like a pendulum, it seems over a 20 year period the mainstream has shifted from consciousness to party music. when rap first started it was both blended, but more on the consciousness side, then gangster rap took over as the most popular form of rap music, and at first it was semi-conscious and then it went to the other side to party music, but after the East/West thing happened it went even deeper (Puff Daddy is a prime example of this), but now since around 98 ish it has slowely started to come back. You can see this with the popularity of artists such as Lupe Fiasco, Kanye West, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, etc. Also you are starting to see more and more "underground" artists get signed to major labels (Apathy and Murs are two great examples.

hopefully tht wasn't all a bunch of bullshit and I'm right.

[chitown_brotha]

great points indeed rpas,i agree with you,and i feel there are alloth of great mc's in the underground that take the culture of hiphop and use it to get the message out,like my favorite immortal technique,i know sum of you allready mentioned,yes he a great mc,bringing the truth in hiphop with the raw run you over if you aren't down with what i do style,i don't really care that he uses the word gay or faggot that much,maybe i should...+the man is an activist,and alloth of mc's just rap no more but this cat also takes action.i also respect artists such as hasan salaam,most def a dope mc with an unique style,if you heard or know him you most def would agree that the topics that he brings are full of knowledge thruth aswell he shows the rich cultural aspects of diferent cultures.others to name like akir,the reavers,atom the immortal,sick symphonies,outerspace,jmt......i mean there are great mc with good and positive messages,and yeah i hate when i see on tv rnb singers and wack studio gangstas gettin portrayed as hiphop,fuck outa here,since when is artists such as ciara hiphop.i mean its bullshit,then you got dumb asses walkin around all iced out with diamonds that there people back home handpicked,gloryfiying the ghetto,as if its the best place to live,making videos doing like thats how it sapoused to be,i mean since when is living in the ghetto part of the african culture,or any culture,i can go on about this issue all day,but ima leave it here,couse i know ya all agree and understand that what is broadcasted today on television that so called hiphop is bullshit,

[le révolutionnaire]

I agree with permanent revolution. The Coup is definetely one of the best. It's revolutionary but in a more cynical way, and none of the "gangsta" bullshit. Also infuses a James Brown, funk-esque theme which makes it really catchy. But yeah, most rap groups have sold out, because they feel they can sacrifice they're beliefs for commercial success. Dead prez is a good example, Lets Get Free was an excellent record but Revolutionary but Gangsta sucked, no more revolution. Immortal Technique is still great, and Public Enemy's message has always been great, but the beats havn't always been the best. Bit too old school for me. Ice Cube was great when he first started, with Predator and Death Certificate but completely sold out. As for NWA, I only have them because they have been so influential on rap, not because they are radical or anything like that. As for "fag" and stuff like that, I hate it too, but it's just the genre of music. :redstar2000:

[Pirate Utopian]

What I think is too bad is that alot of the political hip-hop I heard is talking about the Nation Of Islam and Farrakhan.
I dont agree with NOI at all, usually it just is a small line in the song wich basically ruins the song for me.

like any Brand Nubian album or Public Enemy's "What Kind Of Power We Got?"

[Chicano Shamrock]

then you have dead prez, who i find musically really amazing. and their album "lets get free" was pretty decent on a political/lyrical level, but they completely sold out on "rbg".
im guessing you know what im talking about, but if you or anyone else wants id be happy to find some lyrics between the two albums that are highly hypocritical of each other.

I just recently got into Dead Prez and I just aquired his RBG album. Could you explain how he sold out on it. I am ignorant of his discography. I did have a guy tell me last year that he saw Dead Prez at a show and he came out and said brown and black pride and then told the white kids in the audience to watch their backs and duck. That sounded really fucked up. He could learn a lesson or two from brother Malcolm X. But maybe I got the story distorted.

To RPAS:

What you are talking about is present in most every genre of music. Commercial music is garbage. Commercial rap seems to be heavily focused on money, rims and cars but I think it is more representative of the labels that own the artists than the genre. It reminds me of an Ice Cube line that goes "You rep Compton but you moved to Riverside".

I was in a discussion in my Music Biz class(which is hell because it is all about getting money any way you can even if it means screwing your bro. I guess business just isn't my thing.) about American Idol. One guy said that Idol is death to the music industry because it is all commercialized garbage to sell coca-cola and what not. Then he has the nerve to say "all those people are sell outs. You never saw Biggie doing that". I just couldn't help but laugh because this guy is obviously into todays pop rap and he was throwing a fit over American Idol sellouts.

I told him that biggie was just as much of a sell out. He was on MTV with his Viacom contract. He was spinning on the radio. It's not because of his Biggie comment that I know he listens to commercial rap. I see the guy all the time talking about TI this or 50 Cent that.

[Pirate Utopian]

Dead Prez is a group not one person.

[Ol' Dirty]

Rap started declining rapidly in the early 90's after Ice-T -whom, in my proffesional opinion ( -_- ), was one of the few tollerable gangstas,- popularized west-coast. Today's gangstas are egotistical, lupine, vicious, covetous imbeciles with very little taste. I miss the good old days of classic east coast.

[Pirate Utopian]

Your saying the Biggie, Tupac, Dr. Dre (atleast give it up for The Chronic) and Nas for example wich all came out after Ice-T are all bad?

I dont hate gangsta rap, matter of fact I love it, the problem is not gangsta rap as alot of people say.
loads of great hip-hop classics like Amerikkka's Most Wanted, Straight Outta Compton, Black Sunday are all gangsta albums.
Gangsta rap is just associated with bling bling and mindlessness, wich doesnt have to be this way.

Mac Dre, E-40, Kid Frost, Da Lench Mob all had strong political themes on albums but are classified as gangsta.
Gangsta is not ignorant!

[SanPatricio'sSoul]

Obviously the commercialization of Hip Hop has the biggest role in its decline in creativity over the last 5-10 years, but anybody who says hip hop is dead doesn't really understand that it's a culture and not just a genre of music. I also disagree with those who says there is real hip hop and fake hip hop, or rap is that "gangster shit" and underground is "hip hop", thats also bullshit because again hip hop is a culture and rap is one of the tenets of hip hop culture. I contend that there are many different types of rap and the whole bloody thing is heavily over-simplified. In a record store although you have different things such as West coast gangster rap, underground rap, Southern rap, Boston Rap, Philly Rap, NYC Rap, Def Jux style rap, Islamic rap, Political rap they are all still only catagorized as hip hop. Although making an honest attempt to categorize hip hop might cause division, it also wouldn't confuse the everloving fuck out of John Q Hip Hop fan.

Another problem is the fact that there is simply way WAY WAY too many rappers trying to do it. While trying to bring something new to this cultur, and something better absolutely should not be discouraged by any means, many of these rappers are cookie-cutter knock offs of the others. I bet if you live near a major city and did a myspace search of hip hop within a 5 mile radius you won't just get hundreds, you will get thousands of rappers, or people who affiliate their music with hip hop and thats fucking ridiculous.

[jaycee]

Hip Hop these days is in a particulaly bad state because even tho there are still some heavy underground artists they too often seem scarred to try anything new.

Commercial music in any genre has always been pretty much shit, but i think the way in which commercial music these days is censorerd to give out bull shit messages has gotten worse.

i'm an emcee, here are 4 of my tracks from my album 'The Spark'

http://www.myspace.com/jayceemcee

[Rawthentic]

Theres alot yo. Theres Sun Rise Above, the Roots, Talib Kweli, Cunninglynguists, Sabac Red.

Y'all just gotta look 'em up.


and none of the "gangsta" bullshit.
What do you mean?