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Spirit of Spartacus
5th April 2007, 22:41
http://www.dawn.com/2007/04/03/top3.htm


ISLAMABAD, April 2: Two religious seminaries, Jamia Faridia and Jamia Hafsa, are adamant to enforce Shariat in Islamabad (the capital) and across the country and said they will announce their movement in the Lal Masjid on Friday.

They warned the government of serious consequences if it tried to create hurdles in implementing the Islamic law.

We will start our Islamic revolution in Islamabad on Friday by launching a crackdown on CDs, DVDs and other secular activities in the G-6 sector. The exercise will be extended to the NWFP and other areas at later stages. We have full support of madressahs in various cities, Jamia Faridia and Jamia Hafsa in-charge Maulana Abdul Aziz told Dawn on Monday.

Ten thousand students of the two seminaries are ready to sacrifice their lives for Shariat and we are determined to enforce the Islamic law in Islamabad in order to make it example for people, said Maulana Aziz, elder brother of Ghazi Abdul Rashid.

He claimed that thousands of people and government officials in Islamabad had lauded the recent raid on a brothel which, he said, was the first successful step of the movement.I have received a letter from a policewoman alleging that she was exploited by a senior police officer, he said. The woman has already informed President Gen Pervez Musharraf and the Islamabad Inspector General of Police about sexual harassment of policewomen by senior officials, he added.

Answering a question, Maulana Aziz said they would not stop enforcing Shariat even if the government withdrew its decision to demolish mosques in the federal capital. There were only six Taliban who enforced the Islamic law in Afghanistan and we are 10,000. Then, how cant we enforce Shariah at least in Islamabad.

Asked what the funding source of the two seminaries and the Lal Masjid was, Maulana Aziz said: Whenever we are short of essential items we close our eyes and demand the goods from Allah. Within a few minutes, we find the desired things in our kitchens.

He said he was supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan and South and North Waziristan and conceded that students of his seminary had joined the Taliban but on their own.

No doubt, our students are joining jihadis because we are teaching them jihad but we have not pressurised them to fight, rather they are doing it by their own, he said.

Meanwhile, a man, whose daughter is a student of Jamia Hafsa, told Dawn that he did not want her daughter to take part in enforcing Shariat by force.

I have brought my child from Charsadda here to learn about Islam and not to fight.



It's caused a storm of speculation, if nothing more. My first reaction is to view this as a joke.

The problem is, these guys are few in number, but determined. They're prepared to die.

I'm told by a friend that they have already been going around in the capital Islamabad noting down the license-numbers of cars which are driven by women.


This appears to be an interesting new challenge for the military regime here.

Guest1
5th April 2007, 23:15
This is no challenge to the regime, these are often the wives and daughters of the Generals. On the other hand, a radicalization is taking place on the left as well, with a few PPP mps being a part of the Struggle. Here's some links on some of the stuff from Pakistan, the most important being the Struggle's congress.

Marxism on the rise in Pakistan.

Lawyers' protest shows crisis of regime (http://www.marxist.com/pakistan-lawyers-protest-show-regime-crisis290307.htm)

Open Letter to 26th Congress of The Struggle in Pakistan (http://www.marxist.com/open-letter-26th-congress-thestruggle-pakistan280307.htm)

2000 Marxist cadres attend the 26th Congress of The Struggle (http://www.marxist.com/2000-marxist-cadres-attend-26th-congress-thestruggle300307.htm)

Some comments from delegates to the 26th Congress of The Struggle (http://www.marxist.com/comments-delegates-26th-congress-thestruggle020407.htm)

Revolutionary spirit marks end of The Struggle Congress (http://www.marxist.com/congress-the-struggle-day2-revolutionary-spirit020407.htm)

Veteran Pakistan Communist speaks to Marxist.com - Jam Saqi (http://www.marxist.com/veteran-pakistan-communist-jam-saqi040407.htm)

Spirit of Spartacus
5th April 2007, 23:51
This is no challenge to the regime, these are often the wives and daughters of the Generals.

Hahahahahahaha! Wives of the generals? No, comrade, they're not. They belong to the most under-privileged sections of society. They are the lumpen-proleteriat, which was organized by the military regime in the 80s to combat communist influence in this region.

Now they've turned on the very ruling-class that created them.

Make no mistake...they are NOT wives and daughters of the generals. Oh no...those wives and daughters are highly bourgeois in outlook and habits.




On the other hand, a radicalization is taking place on the left as well, with a few PPP mps being a part of the Struggle. Here's some links on some of the stuff from Pakistan, the most important being the Struggle's congress.

Err....

Marxist.com has a tendency to over-state the situation.

PPP itself is selling out to the regime. Perhaps you are not familiar with the recent under-handed deals with the military regime.

Furthermore, there is only ONE openly Marxist member of parliament from the PPP, and he apparently gets elected on the usual social-democratic / populist platform of the PPP.

Keyser
6th April 2007, 20:42
Make no mistake...they are NOT wives and daughters of the generals. Oh no...those wives and daughters are highly bourgeois in outlook and habits.

Maybe CyM was talking about the Islamists, not the car drivers.

Sadly the Pakistani Islamist movement has a fair degree of female participation, despite the fact that women will be the ones to suffer the most from an Islamic shariat state.

Also, I do understand the concept of a "bourgeois outlook" but what is "bourgeois habits" supposed to mean/ Both the ruling class and working class will have habits that are sometimes the same.

Can you clarify that?

Also, the Pakistani Islamist movement is reactionary and bourgeois to the very core, especially in it's ideology and values.

I can only say that this is not a good development and I hope there is some form of opposition by the Pakistani people to the Islamists.

Guest1
6th April 2007, 22:56
Originally posted by Spirit of [email protected] 05, 2007 06:51 pm
Err....

Marxist.com has a tendency to over-state the situation.
I don't think that 2000 Marxist delegates at a congress can be considered anything but a very good sign.


PPP itself is selling out to the regime. Perhaps you are not familiar with the recent under-handed deals with the military regime.
Which is exactly why the Struggle considers itself a left opposition to the PPP leadership.


Furthermore, there is only ONE openly Marxist member of parliament from the PPP, and he apparently gets elected on the usual social-democratic / populist platform of the PPP.
As far as I heard, he won over two other MPs, and he runs on an open platform calling for the revolutionary overthrow of Capitalism.

Have you read any of the articles? I think you're underestimating the seriousness of the situation, and seem to not realize that for there to be Fascist bands there must be a significant, organized and revolutionary section of the workingclass.

Spirit of Spartacus
7th April 2007, 01:57
Maybe CyM was talking about the Islamists, not the car drivers.

So was I.


Sadly the Pakistani Islamist movement has a fair degree of female participation, despite the fact that women will be the ones to suffer the most from an Islamic shariat state.

Actually, comrade, this degree of female participation is a new factor. The Islamist reactionary bastards are essentially using the women as human shields.

We can see it in Islamabad. The authorities are hesitant to attack female members of the movement, because it would provide the Islamists with an excellent propaganda opportunity.


Also, I do understand the concept of a "bourgeois outlook" but what is "bourgeois habits" supposed to mean/ Both the ruling class and working class will have habits that are sometimes the same.

Can you clarify that?

Actually, I admit that was something of a vague statement.

What I meant was, when CyM said that the Islamist female fanatics were mostly the wives and daughters of the Generals (the military ruling elite), I disagreed with him on that.

What I meant to say was that the wives and daughters of the generals are mostly "secular" in outlook, and wouldn't really spend their time fighting the government as religious zealots. :P

They've got other stuff to do...such as living the high life while the working masses live in poverty.

Spirit of Spartacus
7th April 2007, 02:12
Err....

Marxist.com has a tendency to over-state the situation.

I don't think that 2000 Marxist delegates at a congress can be considered anything but a very good sign.

No doubt it would be a good sign. But its still far from the point where we could claim to have a revolutionary situation. The working-class and the peasantry still need to be organized, it might even take 20 years to get to that point.

Patience and determination are needed.






PPP itself is selling out to the regime. Perhaps you are not familiar with the recent under-handed deals with the military regime.

Which is exactly why the Struggle considers itself a left opposition to the PPP leadership.

I don't know how far this entryism will take them.






Furthermore, there is only ONE openly Marxist member of parliament from the PPP, and he apparently gets elected on the usual social-democratic / populist platform of the PPP.

As far as I heard, he won over two other MPs, and he runs on an open platform calling for the revolutionary overthrow of Capitalism.


To the best of my information, he has run on the regular electoral ticket of the PPP, which is mildly social-democratic at best. I will try to confirm, though.





Have you read any of the articles? I think you're underestimating the seriousness of the situation, and seem to not realize that for there to be Fascist bands there must be a significant, organized and revolutionary section of the workingclass.


Well, there are two important things here.

You refer to these Islamists as "Fascist bands". The fact is that at the moment there is no working-class revolution that threatens our current ruling-classes. So the Islamists are merely lumpen-proleterian pests, who will be crushed with force by the state itself.

In the future, of course, as the working-class movement will gain momentum, then I'd agree with you, these Islamists would become a real Fascist force.

At the moment, Musharraf is also letting them have their way for a while so as to scare the idiots in Washington, who think that the current military rule is the only thing standing between the Islamists and Pakistan's nukes.

Severian
7th April 2007, 08:29
Originally posted by Spirit of [email protected] 06, 2007 06:57 pm
Actually, comrade, this degree of female participation is a new factor.
This type of active involvement may be new in Pakistan, but I'd suggest it's not new or unusual generally.

Women are often recruited successfully by rightist groups, including those opposing women's equality. Afghan Islamists organized marches by girls against the PDPA government's women's rights measures. In Palestine, opinion polls show more women than men supporting Hamas. In the U.S., groups of women like the Eagle Forum and Concerned Women of America were in the forefront of stopping the Equal Rights Amendment. A fair number of women have participated in anti-abortion protests here as well. Back during the fight for women's right to vote in Europe, some "socialists" opposed it based on the reasonable assumption that women would mostly vote for reactionary church-supported parties. There were "housewives' marches" against Allende in Chile. I could give many other examples.

This is especially true in any situation where many women are not part of the paid labor force. An appeal to family, religion, and stability will have a certain success with these women, since instability, economic downturns, social breakdown, etc., will hit them hardest.

As the women's rights situation improves, as more women participate in work, politics, society outside the family, this type of rightist appeal becomes less effective. But it still plays a role, even in advanced capitalist countries.


You refer to these Islamists as "Fascist bands". The fact is that at the moment there is no working-class revolution that threatens our current ruling-classes.

Your point? Large fascist movements don't typically arise in situations when there is a "working-class revolution that threatens our current ruling-classes." Rising revolutionary movements can push back or smash the fascist gangs.

Big fascist movements have more typically arisen after the defeat and disillusionment of the working class, and the ruling class supports them in order to finish off the workers' organizations. Raise their profit rates, increase their ability to go to war, etc.

I don't think "fascist" is exactly accurate for these groups, but there are similarities and they do serve the ruling class as a weapon against working people. As well as a weapon against the Pakistani regime's regional adversaries.

***

A good article about the PPP's deal with the Musharraf regime. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article1620360.ece) They're now part of its support. I'd suggest that any group with a permanent, not just tactical, orientation to remaining part of the PPP, will have a hard time not being politically in its orbit as well. Criticism is not incompatible with following along politically.

Anyway, the PPP's deal with the regime is probably that's a more significant development in Pakistani politics than anything else mentioned in this thread.

As the article points out, it also involves a decision by the Musharraf regime to lean for support on the PPP and not so much on the Islamists. It may even make the regime more obedient to Washington. The PPP has been bidding for Washington's support with public statements criticizing the regime and ISI for supporting or tolerating the Islamists, implying that only with the PPP's return to power can Washington get an end to Pakistani state support or toleration for these elements.

***

In one positive development, Several hundred people marched in Islamabad opposing the "Islamic" ultrarightists and demanding the government enforce civil law against them. (http://www.dawn.com/2007/04/06/top7.htm)

Spirit of Spartacus
9th April 2007, 20:03
A good article about the PPP's deal with the Musharraf regime. They're now part of its support. I'd suggest that any group with a permanent, not just tactical, orientation to remaining part of the PPP, will have a hard time not being politically in its orbit as well. Criticism is not incompatible with following along politically.

Exactly. The Marxists mentioned earlier are members of the PPP, and its certainly no "tactical alliance".


Anyway, the PPP's deal with the regime is probably that's a more significant development in Pakistani politics than anything else mentioned in this thread.

True. The fundamentalists are more of a public security threat.

I tried gathering together all the important news about them here (http://wrathofhephaestus.wordpress.com/2007/04/07/pakistani-fundamentalists-and-their-islamic-revolution-some-thoughts-on-the-rise-of-the-madrassah-thugs-in-islamabad/).


As the article points out, it also involves a decision by the Musharraf regime to lean for support on the PPP and not so much on the Islamists. It may even make the regime more obedient to Washington. The PPP has been bidding for Washington's support with public statements criticizing the regime and ISI for supporting or tolerating the Islamists, implying that only with the PPP's return to power can Washington get an end to Pakistani state support or toleration for these elements.

I can't find any reason to disagree with that analysis.

Severian
16th April 2007, 08:09
Damn, this is still going on. SoS is definitely right on his blog, to emphasize how the regime is handling these ultrarightists with kid gloves - probably he's also right it's because the regime justifies itself as all that stands between the Islamists and Pakistan's nukes.

Musharraf's prime minister even claimed they "broke no laws" by attacking music stores! (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C04%5C16%5Cstory_16-4-2007_pg7_3)

It's interesting to note, on the other hand, that a pro-regime party organized a rally against the Islamists (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C04%5C16%5Cstory_16-4-2007_pg12_3)- according to another article about 100,000 people came. Including one garment worker quoted expressing concern that the Islamists would keep her from working....