Companies to stay away from.

[atlas]

So I was thinking about setting up a wiki on pbwiki.com about companies to stay away from (ie; boycott) due to unethical practices. I would elaborate, but my brain is kinda fried from 30 hours of being awake while coming home from korea, and being unable to sleep in airline chairs. So I'm having trouble thinking straight. Please Excuse.

Anyway, I'm talking about companies that employ questionable business practices, such as
-Exploiting workers/farmers, like Starbucks who rarely, if ever sells Free Trade certified coffee. (and I mean more than the
-Selling harmful products, such as milk that came from a cow injected with rBGH (Starbucks also sells this)
-Or who use questionable, if not plain unethical advertising tactics (such as McDonalds)
-False advertisement, such as companies that say the milk they sell is organic, but it's really not

I'm sure I missed some stuff, but you get the idea, companies that are just plain bad.

-I need some ideas for a name of the wiki (to be in the URL, so it has to be short)
-I need a group of people who will help contribute initially, if it's any good, others will contribute, since after all, it's a wiki.

[DIzzIE]

Um, this seems awfully superfluous, to say the least.

All companies are 'bad' by virtue of being companies in the first place.

By singling out only some you therefore serve to validate the existence of other "good" companies. :rolleyes:

[redcannon]

do you mean listing names of companies that use child labour, worker exploitation (beyond what it already is), and harming the earth (more than it is already being harmed?)

[atlas]

^^^^^EDIT: yes, redcannon^^^^^


I knew somebody would say this...I'm talking about the ones that are especially sinister. The ones that lie, are hazardous to our health and the enviroment, and are exploiting people (moreso than the norm). Getting the average joe to realize just how bad most companies are, and that the government allows them to do so would be for many, a big step towards leftism, and if not that, it will at least be a big step away from liberalism.

I'd say this is a worthy effort.

[Exovedate]

Well first of all Nestle, Cadbury, and Mars (chocolate bar companies) all get their chocolate from the Ivory Coast of Africa (over 50% of the world's chocolate comes from here). The Ivory Coast is infamous for its usage of child slave labour in the harvesting of cocoa.

[KC]

I don't see the point in creating a wiki for telling people what "bad" companies to avoid, because, as an earlier poster said, they're all inherently bad. Rather, I think it would be especially interesting if a wiki was created that included all companies, a company history, and their violations of law as well as human rights.

[Pawn Power]

I don't know where my position is on things like this is yet. While we should show solidarity with union work I think it is a grave diversion and distortion to think that picking and choosing corporations can cause any fundemental change to the system. Even if one is conscience of the actual act of selecting "passable" corporations, not only contributes little or nothing to radical change, but also acts symbollically as consent.

[redcannon]

I think Nike deserves to be put on the list, for their use of child labour

[JRR883]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 10:12 pm
Um, this seems awfully superfluous, to say the least.

All companies are 'bad' by virtue of being companies in the first place.

By singling out only some you therefore serve to validate the existence of other "good" companies. :rolleyes:
There are some less evil than others. By purchasing from the big multi-nationals you're contributing to the mass exploitation by a single entity. Yes, all companies are evil, but does that validate buying from the most exploitative one? I buy all my meat and vegetables from farmers markets and what I can't get there, I get from mom and pop stores. I'd rather support the petty bourgeoisie than the capitalists.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by JRR883+April 12, 2007 04:38 pm--> (JRR883 @ April 12, 2007 04:38 pm)
[email protected] 04, 2007 10:12 pm
Um, this seems awfully superfluous, to say the least.

All companies are 'bad' by virtue of being companies in the first place.

By singling out only some you therefore serve to validate the existence of other "good" companies. :rolleyes:
There are some less evil than others. By purchasing from the big multi-nationals you're contributing to the mass exploitation by a single entity. Yes, all companies are evil, but does that validate buying from the most exploitative one? I buy all my meat and vegetables from farmers markets and what I can't get there, I get from mom and pop stores. I'd rather support the petty bourgeoisie than the capitalists. [/b]
If we all just become "good" consumers and choose the "right" products from the lesser capitalist business then we can collectively, and in our new role as consumers (that is, not workers), then we can overcome capitalism! :lol:

[JRR883]

Originally posted by Pawn Power+April 14, 2007 07:01 pm--> (Pawn Power @ April 14, 2007 07:01 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 04:38 pm

[email protected] 04, 2007 10:12 pm
Um, this seems awfully superfluous, to say the least.

All companies are 'bad' by virtue of being companies in the first place.

By singling out only some you therefore serve to validate the existence of other "good" companies. :rolleyes:
There are some less evil than others. By purchasing from the big multi-nationals you're contributing to the mass exploitation by a single entity. Yes, all companies are evil, but does that validate buying from the most exploitative one? I buy all my meat and vegetables from farmers markets and what I can't get there, I get from mom and pop stores. I'd rather support the petty bourgeoisie than the capitalists.
If we all just become "good" consumers and choose the "right" products from the lesser capitalist business then we can collectively, and in our new role as consumers (that is, not workers), then we can overcome capitalism! :lol: [/b]
So you're saying it makes no difference to you whether you buy from a local store employing 10 adults or a multinational employing 5000 children? That workers forced to work twelve hours per day for pennies an hour are no more exploited than those that make $10 an hour for eight hours a day? We're workers first, but under the capitalist order we're coerced into being consumers. If it's inevitable, we might as well weaken the stronger powers.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by JRR883+April 22, 2007 10:35 pm--> (JRR883 @ April 22, 2007 10:35 pm)
Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 14, 2007 07:01 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 04:38 pm

[email protected] 04, 2007 10:12 pm
Um, this seems awfully superfluous, to say the least.

All companies are 'bad' by virtue of being companies in the first place.

By singling out only some you therefore serve to validate the existence of other "good" companies. :rolleyes:
There are some less evil than others. By purchasing from the big multi-nationals you're contributing to the mass exploitation by a single entity. Yes, all companies are evil, but does that validate buying from the most exploitative one? I buy all my meat and vegetables from farmers markets and what I can't get there, I get from mom and pop stores. I'd rather support the petty bourgeoisie than the capitalists.
If we all just become "good" consumers and choose the "right" products from the lesser capitalist business then we can collectively, and in our new role as consumers (that is, not workers), then we can overcome capitalism! :lol:
So you're saying it makes no difference to you whether you buy from a local store employing 10 adults or a multinational employing 5000 children? That workers forced to work twelve hours per day for pennies an hour are no more exploited than those that make $10 an hour for eight hours a day? [/b]
No, I never said that.


We're workers first, but under the capitalist order we're coerced into being consumers. If it's inevitable, we might as well weaken the stronger powers.

To reiterate in a less sarcastic manner; in all probability, collective consumer action will not, in any significant way, contribute to the appropriation of the means of production. That does not my one should not support workers today, but it should not be looked at a revolutionary action.

Indeed, capitalist neolibral ideology aims at constructing us as "active consumers" that can make the "right" purchases to sway the market as we will. Rejecting this consumer identification is needed to fully escape capitalist ideology and recognize class position.

[JRR883]

Originally posted by Pawn Power+April 23, 2007 03:55 am--> (Pawn Power @ April 23, 2007 03:55 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 10:35 pm

Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 14, 2007 07:01 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 04:38 pm

[email protected] 04, 2007 10:12 pm
Um, this seems awfully superfluous, to say the least.

All companies are 'bad' by virtue of being companies in the first place.

By singling out only some you therefore serve to validate the existence of other "good" companies. :rolleyes:
There are some less evil than others. By purchasing from the big multi-nationals you're contributing to the mass exploitation by a single entity. Yes, all companies are evil, but does that validate buying from the most exploitative one? I buy all my meat and vegetables from farmers markets and what I can't get there, I get from mom and pop stores. I'd rather support the petty bourgeoisie than the capitalists.
If we all just become "good" consumers and choose the "right" products from the lesser capitalist business then we can collectively, and in our new role as consumers (that is, not workers), then we can overcome capitalism! :lol:
So you're saying it makes no difference to you whether you buy from a local store employing 10 adults or a multinational employing 5000 children? That workers forced to work twelve hours per day for pennies an hour are no more exploited than those that make $10 an hour for eight hours a day?
No, I never said that.


We're workers first, but under the capitalist order we're coerced into being consumers. If it's inevitable, we might as well weaken the stronger powers.

To reiterate in a less sarcastic manner; in all probability, collective consumer action will not, in any significant way, contribute to the appropriation of the means of production. That does not my one should not support workers today, but it should not be looked at a revolutionary action.

Indeed, capitalist neolibral ideology aims at constructing us as "active consumers" that can make the "right" purchases to sway the market as we will. Rejecting this consumer identification is needed to fully escape capitalist ideology and recognize class position. [/b]
My apologies; I thought you were submitting that it doesn't matter who we buy from, because it won't prevent any exploitation. But the point remains, if we must buy, we should at least be aware of the lesser evils to purchase from. It's in no way a revolutionary act (unless you're only buying from collectivist stores), rather harm reduction.

[redcannon]

fantastic. we now understand the original point of this thread, let's start listing some more names

this could be a valuable resource for us because right now we are consumers, so let's list the lesser of evils

[Maximicus]

.

[Kurt Crover]

I would put McDonalds in there, because I hate that fucking clown.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 09:01 pm
Wouldn't an infinitely shorter list be about what companies to buy from?

Aside from the well known "Down with Wal-Mart, McDonalds, KFC, Starbucks, etc." arguments, couldn't something new be said?

Okay, so everyone known McDonalds is bad, but where can I get a hamburger, then? Arby's? Wendy's? Burger King? Is there a place thats "lesser evil"?

A much shorter, more complete and far more useful list would be lisiting companies we can grudgingly, but not woefully, support with our moneys.
that's a good idea, actually. for one, try to buy coffee and oraganic food from companies like Wild Oats Organic that feature a "fair trade" logo. that way you know that farmers aren't being as exploited as usual

[Dr Mindbender]

Important point - You should make a clear precedence of boycotting companies which are Israeli, or those which do business with Israel.

A good example is Marks & Spencer.

[atlas]

I havn't checked this thread since spring break...sorry for the absence. The main goal of the wiki is to list companies that exploit workers - dorectly or indirectly (buying products known to be made in sweatshops). I'm going to be making a preliminary list, I'm looking into some stuff now...PM me.


EDIT: the reason you can't list companies to buy from is because unless they explicitly brand themselves as 'fair trade' etc., etc. it is very hard to figure out if they really are 'innocent', and the list would be pretty short.

The wiki basically would gets its information from the news (such as the consumerist, indymedia, even 'mainstream' news). Independant research is very painstaking and time-consuming, something I really commit to right now.

[KC]

There are some less evil than others. By purchasing from the big multi-nationals you're contributing to the mass exploitation by a single entity.

That's analagous to saying that some capitalists are "better" than others. This is blatantly untrue, as is your statement, and serves to create a false perception of reality which implies that some companies are "good". Not only that, but these massive companies exist due to capital accumulation and won't be going anywhere until capitalism is done away with. So not only are you creating a false perception of reality, but you're trying to get people to enlist in a cause that is ultimately futile and a huge waste of time. You're leading workers away from class consciousness. That is a reactionary position.


Yes, all companies are evil, but does that validate buying from the most exploitative one? I buy all my meat and vegetables from farmers markets and what I can't get there, I get from mom and pop stores. I'd rather support the petty bourgeoisie than the capitalists.

And that's your personal choice. However, you also have to realize that politicizing that choice and trying to create a "movement" out of it is futile and reactionary.


So you're saying it makes no difference to you whether you buy from a local store employing 10 adults or a multinational employing 5000 children?

Fundamentally, no. Of course, that 10 person store will be stocked with goods from multinationals employing 5000 children, so by buying from that 10 person store you're supporting that multinational anyways.


That workers forced to work twelve hours per day for pennies an hour are no more exploited than those that make $10 an hour for eight hours a day?

Workers that are "more" exploited aren't "better" than workers that are "less" exploited. The fact that you are ignorant of is that all workers are exploited, regardless of the extent, and that this exploitation won't go away by buying from "less bad" companies but only through the destruction of capitalism in general.


If it's inevitable, we might as well weaken the stronger powers.


By strengthening the weaker powers? You're not simply advocating a "weakening of the big bourgeoisie" but also advocating a "new big bourgeoisie". And the system continues, changed only in who those big bourgeoisie are.


It's in no way a revolutionary act (unless you're only buying from collectivist stores), rather harm reduction.

Yes, but there will never be a movement large enough to even dent the profits of these corporations. Again, it's a futile act that distracts people from the reality of the situation.


The main goal of the wiki is to list companies that exploit workers

All companies exploit workers.

[atlas]

zampano: i was referring to ones that exploit workers more than usual ;)

[KC]

zampano: i was referring to ones that exploit workers more than usual

EDIT:
My mistake. In that case I would be interested in seeing you respond to my post.

[atlas]

Zampano: Yes, all workers are exploited to some degree, but since we have to live in a capitalist society (for now, let's hope) let's not support the ones that are employing small children and make them work for 12 hours a day for pennies an hour. I'm not trying to say you do support these companies, but we do have to buy somethings just to get by, it's next to impossible not to.

If you want to go completely cold turkey right now in this state of socio-economics you'd have to be a bum on the streets. Seeing how most people just think they're crazy (a good bit of them are, it seems), which doesn't exactly help to sway people left. Even if we (leftists world-wide) all went cold turkey right now it wouldn't exactly cripple capitalism.

To be honest, I just don't have the time for this ATM, I have to take SATs pretty soon and I'm going to be studying for those, and after that I'll be away for the rest of the summer. When I started this out I had the best intentions, but I just don't have the time now. I have found some great sites to do research on these companies if anybody feels like continuing this project (I don't expect anybody to). Like I said, I've been very busy lately.
http://companies.jrank.org/
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
http://www.consumerist.com

The first link is by far the best.

[KC]

Zampano: Yes, all workers are exploited to some degree, but since we have to live in a capitalist society (for now, let's hope) let's not support the ones that are employing small children and make them work for 12 hours a day for pennies an hour.

What do you think this would accomplish? It certainly isn't going to even dent their profits.