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RNK
4th April 2007, 13:31
The following is an excerpted interview conducted in winter 2006 with the General Secretary of the Communist Party (Maoist) of Afghanistan, a participating party in the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement. –A World To Win

Q. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the ruling parties calling themselves “communist” imposed a reactionary oppressive rule on the people. What challenges does this pose to genuine communists?

A. Their pseudo-communist claims have created incorrect perceptions about communism among the vast majority of the people. Right from the beginning of the uprising against the Soviet social-imperialists the subjective and objective conditions had a negative and destructive impact on the left movement, which caused it to make deeper deviations. These deviations of the left also contributed to the anti-communism in society, by further attributing communism to the crimes of the social-imperialists.

Anti-communism, as an international endeavour, tries its utmost to portray the defeat of the social-imperialists in Afghanistan as the defeat of communism. However, the Islamic anti-communism during the rule of the Jihadis and the Taleban could not dress up anti-communism any better than it was done by the social-imperialist puppets. This weakened anti-communism to some degree. But the subjective and objective factors, locally and internationally, are still heightening anti-communism. Consequently, the challenges facing the genuine communists are continually arising, which requires them to patiently continue in principled struggle.

One of the challenges is that, along with the social-imperialists’ defeat, the left in the war of resistance was also defeated. These two realities help anti-communists deduce that communism has no place in Afghanistan, and this weighs heavily in the minds of sections of the people. The Islamic anti-communists specifically conclude and promote that Afghanistan is an Islamic society, and that communism, based on dialectical materialism against religion, has no place in that country.

To overcome this challenge a significant section of the left in Afghanistan adapted the theory under the guise of Islam, and made that part of their programme. Other sections, although they did not formally adopt this theory, widely practiced the same thing.

The present liquidationists conclude that Afghanistani society is very backward, and that for as long as backwardness is not dealt with, revolutionary communism has no chance.

Another challenge is the incorrect understanding of internationalism among communists. Anti-communists propagate communism as “an imported ideology”, so that people do not willingly accept it; the idea that communism can only be imposed on the people of Afghanistan by foreign powers still has shaky foundations in the society.

Another aspect of this challenge facing the genuine communists is the lack of a foreign government to support them, and, therefore, without such support, the difficulty of establishing themselves in Afghanistan.

Still another challenge is the accusation that communists are oppressive. As we know, the rule of the social-imperialist occupiers and their puppets was based on suppression of the masses. This oppression in communist disguise ultimately impacts on genuine communists, as the anti-communists try hard to generalise and attribute it to the genuine communists as well.

So, due to the reactionary oppressive rule of the social-imperialists and their puppets, the challenge facing the genuine communists can be summarised as follows: communism has no room in Afghanistan, unless it is imposed on the people by oppression and suppression or invasion and occupation, and even then it will not last long. As has been seen, this challenge is not absolutely specific to the situation in Afghanistan; genuine communists in other countries more or less face the same challenge internationally. As Afghanistan took the brunt of the Soviet social-imperialists and their native puppets, this challenge is more widespread and intense in Afghanistan than in other countries.

The only proper response to this challenge is to courageously take the programme of the genuine communists, that is the programme of the Communist Party (Maoist) of Afghanistan, among the masses in a principled way, so that people can distinguish genuine communists from social-imperialist puppets.

Q. How can the masses comprehend the differences between the revisionist social-imperialists’ programme and the programme presented by the genuine communists?

A. There are three key issues and two grounds requiring struggle:

1) Differences between Marxism-Leninism-Maoism and revisionism; differences between proletarian internationalism and social-imperialism.

2) Differences between new-democratic revolution and what the social-imperialists and revisionists practiced in Afghanistan and other places; differences between Maoist socialist revolution as well as the transition from socialism to communism from the Maoist perspective versus what the revisionists say and practice.

3) Differences between the Maoist people’s war strategy, which is based on the mass line, versus revisionist parliamentary strategy, which is based on coups supported by the social-imperialists.

We need to differentiate ourselves from the revisionists, not only on the theoretical front, but also we need to distinguish ourselves from the revisionists in the implementation of our programme in practice. In other words, we must understand the importance of our struggle on both the theoretical and practical fronts. The Maoist movement in Afghanistan, along with the new-democratic movement, made a relatively clear demarcation between themselves and the revisionist social-imperialists in the 1960s. Although the movement could not mobilise the masses of peasants and that is why it collapsed, as pointed out by martyred Comrade Yari, it did establish bases among intellectuals, workers and the petite bourgeoisie in the cities.

During the resistance movement against the coup regime installed in April 1978, and in the war of resistance against the social-imperialist invaders, Maoist Sholaites militantly participated in the resistance and widely joined the masses. Unfortunately, overall, their participation in the mass movement was not based on correct principles. Even so, within the first few years of the war of resistance, people could see the difference between the revisionists and the Maoists, both in theory and practice, although not so clearly and decisively, because of the mistakes that the Maoists made.

Sections of the people still remember the struggle of the Maoists, and, despite its limitations, this can be relied upon to begin our initial activities among the masses; and the newly emerging communist movement, during the last twenty years, has used this opportunity. As a result of the Maoists’ struggle in the past, sections of the masses distinguish the “Sholaites” from the “Khalqite-Parchamites”. In other words, the challenges facing the genuine communists in implementing their programme, although quite widespread, are not absolute, there are relatively ready-made bases that can be relied upon. Our Party is a witness to this fact.

In addition, in the current situation, based on our Party activities and under the leadership of the Party, democratic organisations among the masses of people, among women, youth, trades unions, labourers and other sections of society can be used to establish wider links between the masses and the Party. By combining underground activities with open and semi-open work among the masses, we can take our programme among the masses to show them the differences between our programme and those imposed on them by the revisionists. To achieve this end, we need to find and utilise both illegal and legal channels through working relatively openly among the people.

The key issue is to remind ourselves that each and every activity carried out in any situation must serve the goal of preparing and initiating the peoples’ war of resistance, which is the concrete form of people’s war in the present situation of Afghanistan.

Q. After the Soviets the Taleban came to power… What is it that attracts people to Islam? How can the communists draw the people from the Islamists to their own side?

A. If we are to talk about the “Islamic mobilisation” that dates back to the 1960s, it was during this period that various political groups, with different ideological and political stances, relatively widely emerged on the scene. The communist movement (Maoism) was born then and the new-democratic movement stood tall; the revisionist party (Peoples Democratic Party), from which two factions emerged, “Khalq” and “Parcham”, both tied to the Soviet social-imperialists, and other bourgeois-nationalist groups and political forces also appeared. Against this backdrop, the reactionary religious feudal forces reacted and organised a reactionary religious movement under the auspices of the Afghanistani government that was supported by the reactionary Arab regimes and regimes in the region that were supported by Western imperialism.

The prevalent feudal culture in society, the pseudo-communist pseudo-progressive claims put forward by the Russian puppet regime, and the Islamic regimes in the neighbouring countries of Iran and Pakistan, unconditionally supported by Western imperialists and reactionary Arab states, all and all, contributed to bringing the spontaneous war fronts of resistance increasingly under the influence of reactionary forces. The communist and revolutionary forces tailing the spontaneous movement prepared the ground for the Islamic forces to further influence the war of resistance against social-imperialism. That is how the Islamic forces, by prevailing in the war of resistance against social-imperialism, took over the government after the collapse of Najib’s regime.

Islam was not the only factor bringing the Islamists into power…. The dramatic advances made by the Taleban, who evolved from a small force into a major power claiming to govern the entire country, was supported by three powerful imperialist/reactionary factors. The US and British imperialists not only worked behind the scenes to organise the “Islamic mobilisation”, but also directly and indirectly supported them afterwards. So of the three major factors propelling the Taleban into power, only one of them was Islam. This factor, Islam, was mainly used by the Taleban against other Islamists, not so much against communists, to combat the “corruption and decadence” that was prevalent among other Islamists. This was to justify and legitimise the “war among Muslims”.

Overall, the reactionary Islamic forces are consolidated in the “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” current and are supported by the US imperialists and their allies as foreign supporters of the regime. Therefore, what we see as the Taleban today cannot be taken as the main model of Islamism in Afghanistan. By looking at the other Islamic countries and around the world, one can see that anti-American pan-Islamism (the Al Qaeda type) does not constitute the major portion of the Islamists.

The numerous crimes committed by the “Jihadi” and “Taleban” Islamists during the “Islamic State” of “Jihadis” and the “Islamic Emirate” of the Taleban have indeed faded the old glory of Islam in the eyes of the masses. This situation alone provides a good opportunity for the communists to draw people from the Islamists onto their own side.

The prevalent feudal culture, in the absence of a powerful non-religious force, namely the communists, generates and regenerates masses that would support various shades of Islamists in an endless circle, or masses that would live a life indifferent to politics.

As far as the Islamism packaged in the Constitution is concerned, it is supported by the imperialist invaders, as well as by the reactionary Arab regimes and Islamists in the region, who march under the imperialists’ drum-beat. A large section of the feudal and bourgeois comprador classes is the main supporter of Islamism. Naturally, for as long as the dominance of semi-feudal, semi-colonial power is not challenged by a national revolutionary war of resistance, they will continue to retain their mass base.

As far as Islamism in its specific Afghanistani form of the Taleban and global Al Qaeda is concerned, it involves some other factors as well. Suppressing this form of Islamism is an excuse for the American imperialists’ campaign.

In other words, the Taleban fights as part of an extensive international force. Naturally, this is an important factor drawing the masses onto the side of the Taleban. In fact, the lack of a strong revolutionary communist or even anti-American nationalist movement, including in Afghanistan, is the reason why the masses commit themselves to crazy Islamism, creating an oppressive reactionary religious movement that is used to justify the American imperialists exporting “progress and democracy”. If a strong revolutionary alternative existed in Afghanistan and in other Islamic countries, Islamism, mainly serving the invaders and their lackeys, would not have appeared in the form of the Taleban or Al Qaeda – and even if it did, it would not have been this powerful. In order to draw the masses away from them to their own side, the struggle of the Afghanistani communists must take the form of an international struggle. Such a struggle must be based on the context of resistance against the imperialist occupying invaders and their puppets, and it should be carried out at the global, regional and Afghanistani national level. For as long as we are unable to play a powerful role in the struggle against the invaders, the Taleban will always be able to utilise the anti-American sentiments of the masses to organise them for their own organisational interests.

Taleban Islamism has some serious problems. During their rule in the name of the “Islamic Emirates” they severely oppressed non-Pashtun people. That is why the Taleban’s Islamism is not supported by people of other nationalities. This lack of support for the Taleban among non-Pashtun people provides suitable conditions to organise against the invaders and their lackeys. This does not mean we have no opportunity for organising the masses of people among the Pashtuns. Such an opportunity does exist, because the masses of Pashtun people have had their “fair share” of the Taleban’s oppression.

Communists in their struggle against Islamic theocracy can successfully utilise opportunities when there is a broad secular movement. This requires ideological struggle against idealism to propagate dialectical materialism. On another level this struggle should be carried out against Islamic politics and economics by propagating the principles of Marxist-Leninist-Maoist politics and economics. Without such a struggle the communist party cannot establish a mass base for itself. Indeed, we should be mindful of the nature of the struggle, which is protracted. But that does not mean we should negate such a struggle…. Islam in Afghanistan and other countries, such as Iran, is not a question of the religious belief of the masses. We are facing Islamic rule and we are struggling against an Islamic Republic. In our situation, Islamic politics is armed with the sword of anti-communism. Communists cannot ignore an all-around struggle against such an enemy that is armed with this sword.

Q. The U.S. imperialists have raised the banner of “democracy” in order to justify their aggression in Afghanistan and other places. How do you respond?

A. Our response is that the banner of democracy is a smokescreen to further their imperialist campaign. Our party has always insisted that in a country occupied by imperialists, peoples’ sovereignty is trampled on, people cannot exercise their democratic rights, not even at the semi-colonial level of democracy. At the same time, foreign imperialist invaders who deprive a country of its sovereignty cannot bring democracy. The hodgepodge of democracy that the American imperialists are offering the people of Afghanistan is used only to create the myth that the people have a voice in determining their future and their country’s future.

Another important issue is that the clique ruling the US is trampling and violating the democratic civil rights of their own people, rights that have been established and practiced for years and years. They use terrorism as an excuse. Just as this excuse cannot justify trampling the bourgeois-democratic rights of the people in America, the invasion of a country by force is the cruellest act against the people of a country.

Aside from these general points, let’s look at the nature of what the imperialists and their lackeys call democracy in Afghanistan. In the Afghanistani government, as reflected in the constitution, political parties, freedom of expression and freedom of the press, in short all civil and individual rights are restricted by Islam and Islamic Sharia [religious laws – AWTW], nothing is permitted beyond that and everything is illegal. In this aspect, the main difference between the current Islamic Republic regime and the Islamic Emirates regime of the Taleban is that the current regime is a multi-party Islamic regime, while the Taleban regime was a single-party Islamic regime. In this “Republic”, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, communist beliefs and others, are not permitted. Some people like to call such a regime “Islamic democracy”. But “Islamic democracy” is a misnomer, just like “Islamic Republic”. Democracy makes sense only when there is a secular regime. Some theoreticians of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan say that in Afghanistan democracy is applied as a method, it is not an outlook. In other words, the outlook of Islamic Sharia cannot be modified by those who implement it. As a method, democracy is utilised to dress up the anti-democratic religious Islamic nature of the regime as being modern.

That is why our task is to widely expose the deceit of the occupying invaders that disguise themselves with so-called democracy. It is our task to expose the exported pseudo-democracy widely and consistently. This must be done with the aim of preparing for a national revolutionary war of resistance against the invaders and their lackeys.

The majority of the people are not fooled by the exported democracy of the occupiers. As seen, the presidential election was a failure in itself, the majority of the people did not participate in that election. The failure of the provincial elections is even more clearly known to people, so much so that the imperialists and their lackeys even had to admit it.

We need to present our model of democracy, new-democracy, to the people and convince them that our democracy is superior to the “democracy” of the invaders. We must vigorously bring the strength of the earlier new-democratic regimes to the forefront, so that the masses of people can see that democracy does make a difference to their lives. We should show the masses that our democracy is far beyond the bourgeois democracy practiced in capitalist countries, let alone the pseudo-democracy of the semi-feudal, semi-colonial regime of Afghanistan.

Indeed, we cannot limit ourselves to propagating and agitating around new-democracy. We must vigorously defend the achievements of previous socialist revolutions, and that should be the focus of our propaganda and agitation. In our struggle, we must show that by implementing socialism, democracy can be far better in a socialist society than democracy in a capitalist imperialist system; we must emphasise the importance of the proletarian cultural revolution launched in China.



Q. Why has “frontism” – the tendency that communists bury their role in united fronts – been so strong in your country? What lessons can be learnt about the defeat of the communists in independently raising their flags in the war of resistance against the Soviet Union?



A. The Progressive Youth Organisation (PYO), the founding organisation of the communist movement in Afghanistan, had an erroneous understanding about underground work. The organisation, during its second meeting, held in October 1965, decided to publish two newspapers, one democratic and the other communist, to act as an unconditional organ for revolution. The communist newspaper was never published. However, the democratic newspaper, Sholeh Jawid, was applied for and was authorised for publication by the government’s publishing office. Sholeh Jawid was banned by the government after publishing 11 issues. In publishing the newspaper, the organisation collaborated with two other leftist groups outside the organisation. But the organisation kept its programme secret from the groups, pretending that the Yari group and Mahmoudi group were both operating independently from each other. While the new-democratic movement grew exponentially, expanding throughout the country, the PYO continued to limit recruitment of its members from among supporters on an individual basis. The problem was not limited to the organisation keeping its programme secret; an even more serious problem was the outlook that existed, that a party and organised leadership was not necessary, that the mass movement sufficed. The PYO never discussed struggling for the formation of a communist party.

Sholaites were trained with this mentality, of not paying attention to organised work under the leadership of a centralised organisation; this outlook at different times and at different levels later on bequeathed the legacy of disorganisation and frontism in the movement after the April 1978 coup, and during the war against the Soviet social-imperialist invasion of Afghanistan.

“Sorkha” was the first left organisation that proposed frontism in the left movement. “Sorkha” proposed that there are too many differences in the movement to form the communist party, however, fighting against the coup regime was a common ground among the left; the left can be united in fighting the regime. In fact, this proposal was to avoid the ideological and political struggle for establishing the communist party as the immediate task of the movement, procrastinating it to an unknown time. The proposal never got off the ground. The proposal was never implemented and no united front was formed among the left.

Later on frontism was officially and unofficially expanding in the movement.

The National Liberation Front of Sama and the Mujahedin Warriors Front of Rehayee were organised – both with an Islamic Republic as their perspective. This outlook not only tailed the spontaneous movement of the people against the coup regime, mainly with a religious tone, but also reflected the capitulationist line of the Islamic parties as well.

Sama as an organisation officially never claimed to be communist, and its internal programme was democratic. However, it openly… demanded an Islamic Republic.

The Revolutionary Group of the People of Afghanistan (later named Rehayee after its newspaper, in the Autumn of 1978) linked itself with the Chinese revisionist rulers, and negatively developed its economist line to revisionism. The Revolutionary Group of Afghanistan and Rehayee not only demanded an Islamic Republic but also proposed an Islamic revolution. Sama fought independently during the war of resistance against the social-imperialists in several regions for several years, but this was done under the disguise of an Islamic republic (a programme openly presented to the public). In some areas it sneaked in under the direct banner of the Islamic forces. Rehayee during the war of resistance, except in the coup, staged in Balahisar under the name of Mujahedin Warriors Front, fought throughout the country under the banner of an Islamic republic.

These two organisations, which deemed participation in the war of resistance an absolute necessity, not only liquidated democratic struggle, but also, at the same time, by fighting under the banner of Islamism, gave up fighting for nationalism and secularism.

Most of the left organisations, despite the fact that they did not adopt a call for an Islamic republic in their programmes (some even pretending to work seriously for the formation of the Communist Party in Afghanistan), in practice disguised themselves as Islamic parties, never having the will or the power to fight independently.

That is how the left organisations as a whole not only gave up struggling independently during the war of resistance, but also gave up fighting for nationalist democracy and secularism as well.

Communists must play a leading role in the united front. Naturally, first and foremost that requires their independence within the united front. Without independence in the united front there can be no talks about the leadership of communists in a united front; with the acknowledgment that independence in the united front is not sufficient for leadership of the united front. When communists not only buried their role of leadership in the war fronts of resistance, but also buried their independence in the democratic and national struggle, obviously, as Comrade Avakian said, these communists are not communists and they cannot be considered democrats or nationalists.

The communists that were not communist and could not raise the independent banner of communism in the war of resistance against social-imperialism were defeated. They did not have the line to raise the banner of communism in the war; if some did that, it was only in words, they did not insist on it in their deeds. After the defeat, when the new communist movement reorganised into small groups, they were caught up in the ideological and political work to drive out confusion; they did not have the time and strength to participate in the war of resistance in order to raise the banner of communism independently in practice.

Once again we are facing the challenge of fighting independently against the occupying US imperialist invaders, their allies, and their puppet regime; we need to respond to this challenge as soon as possible. To embrace this challenge we have the following to rely on:

1. The experience of the war against social-imperialism.

2. A Party that we did not have during the war against social-imperialism.

3. A militant Revolutionary Communist Party in the belly of the occupying beast, a great opportunity for Afghanistani Maoists to independently lead the masses of people. This opportunity did not exist during the war of resistance against social-imperialism.

4. The Taleban Islamists, who are fighting against the Americans and the Karzai regime, are yesterday’s US men. Furthermore, during their reign they committed countless crimes against the people.

It is in this context that our Party raises the banner of the revolutionary war of resistance against the imperialist occupiers and their hand-picked regime. This is the war that the Maoists and the masses under their leadership should initiate and carry out. This is the war of resistance, that is, resistance against the aggressor and imperialist occupiers, as well as against their lackeys, in order to gain the independence of the country; it is not an Islamic Jihad. This war is a national war; it is not a religious war, specifically it is not an Islamic war against Christians. This is a peoples’ war, that is, a war based on the popular classes, not on the feudal and bourgeois comprador exploiting and oppressing classes. In other words, this war is a war aimed at new-democratic revolution and socialist revolution.

At the present time we are preparing for such a war. Our hope is to complete the preparation stage successfully and as quickly as possible. With the support of the international communist movement, specifically with the support of the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement, Afghanistan Maoists will step forward with their independent banner. n

There are many topics to discuss. I think the article is interesting, and I'm keen to hear others' opinions on it, and the opening of some discussion!

Some openers:

1. Do you feel that this leader's analysis of the revolutionary situation during the 1980s is accurate?
2. Do you feel there is precedence for a revolutionary war in Afghanistan, against both Western and fundamentalist oppression?

Spirit of Spartacus
4th April 2007, 20:55
1. Do you feel that this leader's analysis of the revolutionary situation during the 1980s is accurate?

No. It's just pure BULLSHIT.

Some very good Maoist comrades sided with the reactionary Islamist scum against the Soviet-oriented regime of Afghanistan. And I think it was plain stupidity and a dogmatic refusal to acknowledge the situation in Afghanistan at that time.

It is important to remember that the communist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (who are being referred to as "puppets of the social-imperialists" in this interview) came to power through a revolution on their own, and they did not rely on the Soviet Union until 1979.

Furthermore, its important to remember that the insurgents were mainly feudal lords from Afghanistan who were angered by the confiscation and redistribution of their agricultural lands among the peasantry. They were supported by the CIA, and later Arab insurgents began to arrive in Afghanistan via Pakistan.

Also, its important to realize that even if we accept the theory of Soviet "social-imperialism" as being correct, the Maoist comrades in Afghanistan ought to have realized that US imperialism remained the prime reactionary force in the world, and that Soviet "imperialism" was a lesser evil.

Of course I don't accept the thesis of Soviet social-imperialism as being very valid anyhow.



2. Do you feel there is precedence for a revolutionary war in Afghanistan, against both Western and fundamentalist oppression?

Yes, there is.

I would like to see the remnants of the communist PDPA as well as the Maoists to join together in the fight against US imperialism and its lackey regime in Kabul.

RNK
4th April 2007, 22:29
Some very good Maoist comrades sided with the reactionary Islamist scum against the Soviet-oriented regime of Afghanistan. And I think it was plain stupidity and a dogmatic refusal to acknowledge the situation in Afghanistan at that time.

Howso? You feel that the Maoists should have recognized that the Soviet Union are good people, while they're destroying their homes, razing their villages and killing thousands? Or that they should have recognized the PDP as their true saviors, even as the PDP was purging opposition?


It is important to remember that the communist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (who are being referred to as "puppets of the social-imperialists" in this interview) came to power through a revolution on their own, and they did not rely on the Soviet Union until 1979.

Calling it a revolution is really, really stretching it. It was a coup, instigated by military officers and a handful of intellectuals -- it was not a mass worker's revolution.


Also, its important to realize that even if we accept the theory of Soviet "social-imperialism" as being correct, the Maoist comrades in Afghanistan ought to have realized that US imperialism remained the prime reactionary force in the world, and that Soviet "imperialism" was a lesser evil.

So while the PDP was purging its political opponents, and the Soviets were demolishing villages and killing thousands, any good Marxist should have stopped and thought, "well, atleast they're not as bad as the Americans."?


and a dogmatic refusal to acknowledge the situation in Afghanistan at that time.

I find it incredibly ironic that you would use this statement to describe the Maoists' analysis of the Soviet invasion.

Vargha Poralli
6th April 2007, 14:40
Come on RNK you are being too dogmatic.

Soviet intenetion of intervening in Afghanistan was not in altruists intrest but the Maoists support of Taliban mujhahedeeen was really stupid and totally reactionary. In the end it is the people of Afghanistan who payed the heavy prize under Taliban tyranny.

This where you get in to if you put personal opinion over the politics.

Severian
7th April 2007, 08:49
Originally posted by Spirit of Spartacus+April 04, 2007 01:55 pm--> (Spirit of Spartacus @ April 04, 2007 01:55 pm)
1. Do you feel that this leader's analysis of the revolutionary situation during the 1980s is accurate?

No. It's just pure BULLSHIT.

Some very good Maoist comrades sided with the reactionary Islamist scum against the Soviet-oriented regime of Afghanistan. And I think it was plain stupidity and a dogmatic refusal to acknowledge the situation in Afghanistan at that time. [/b]
More to the point: the situation in Afghanistan didn't matter to them. For decades, official Communist Parties had been making decisions based on the narrow national interests of the Moscow or Beijing regime, not based on the class struggle in their home countries or the world.

The Manifesto says communists have no interests separate and apart from the working class as a whole. But official "Communist" parties served interests completely separate and apart from those of the working class: the interests of bureaucratic regimes in particular countries.

That's the core problem right there. The early Soviet government made what alliances it had to - but it never asked any other party to change its policy to aid those alliances.

Beijing was allied with Washington, so it was allied with all of Washington's rightist regimes and rebel groups in the world. From Angola to Afghanistan, Mao and Maoists supported many of the most reactionary forces in the world.

If you mirror-image that policy by declaring Washington the main enemy, the symptoms become less blatantly rightist. But the core problem remains: policy is not based on advancing the class struggle.


RNK
Howso? You feel that the Maoists should have recognized that the Soviet Union are good people, while they're destroying their homes, razing their villages and killing thousands?

See, that's just moronic. "The rebellion is justified because of things that were done to put down the rebellion." Obviously the rebellion had to start first - and did start before the Soviet army was in Afghanistan - so what justified that?

It was a rebellion led by feudal types angry over the progressive, revolutionary-democratic measures taken by the PDPA. Land reform, education for girls and boys together, debt relief for peasants, etc.

Now all these things were done by a regime with a narrow base of support, which tended to hand down decrees from above rather than politically organizing and leading the masses from below. This made it easier for the sheiks and mullahs to lead a big part of the population against the PDPA government.

But that doesn't change: which side are you on, progress or reaction.

(And of course the mujahedeen had plenty of atrocities of their own, of course not given big headlines in the West at the time. Just look at what they did after the Soviet withdrawal.)

That today, after what the mujahedeen and their successors have done to Afghanistan, anyone denies that the PDPA was better....takes a mind shut tight and locked.

Nothing Human Is Alien
7th April 2007, 09:34
No. It's just pure BULLSHIT.

Agreed.


Some very good Maoist comrades sided with the reactionary Islamist scum against the Soviet-oriented regime of Afghanistan. And I think it was plain stupidity and a dogmatic refusal to acknowledge the situation in Afghanistan at that time.

The same goes in alot of other places; Angola for instance.


It is important to remember that the communist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (who are being referred to as "puppets of the social-imperialists" in this interview) came to power through a revolution on their own, and they did not rely on the Soviet Union until 1979.

Right; and they didn't need assistance until the CIA/Saudi/Chinese/Pakistani aid started pouring into the mujahdeen! Even after that scum bag Gorbachev withdrew the Red Army; the revolutionary Afghan government stood on its own for some time; and defended itself against the imperialist/Islamist onslaught.


Of course I don't accept the thesis of Soviet social-imperialism as being very valid anyhow.

That's good, since no such thing existed. Ever.

RNK
7th April 2007, 10:51
I'm getting the impression that you guys didn't read the article properly, and you are drawing conclusions that the Maoists Afghanis are somehow siding, or had sided with, the Taliban; that their struggle against the invasion by the USSR was done hand-in-hand with the mujahadeen. Where do you get this idea from?

On the contrary the article explains how many erroneous leftist groups joined the "Islamist" bandwagon and criticizes them for taking a passive role as mujahadeen allies rather than rising to steer the revolutionary wave away from fundamentalism and towards true people's revolution.

It's sad to see such revisionism here. I wouldn't thought there'd be more open-mindedness, and not such blatant disreguard for fact. The PDP was at best an autocratic social-democrat party that, from the get go, pursued their own seperate interests above that of the people of Afghanistan. "Revolutionary-democratic"... I've never heard such contradictory crap in my life. The PDP was a small militant elitist group completely subservient to Moscow that came to power through a military coup, not a people's revolution. IMO it's offensive to even try and claim they were "revolutionary".


Maoist comrades in Afghanistan ought to have realized that US imperialism remained the prime reactionary force in the world, and that Soviet "imperialism" was a lesser evil.

Please explain to me why it is acceptable to support one imperialist power against another, rather than struggle against all forms of imperialism as the Afghani Maoists have done since 1979?

Severian
8th April 2007, 00:55
Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 03:51 am
I'm getting the impression that you guys didn't read the article properly, and you are drawing conclusions that the Maoists Afghanis are somehow siding, or had sided with, the Taliban; that their struggle against the invasion by the USSR was done hand-in-hand with the mujahadeen. Where do you get this idea from?
From Maoists, and everyone else.

The interview describes how a number of Maoists groups participated in the "war of resistance against the social-imperialists", known to the rest of humanity as the mujahedeen's CIA-supported fight against the PDPA and the Soviets.

During the resistance movement against the coup regime installed in April 1978, and in the war of resistance against the social-imperialist invaders, Maoist Sholaites militantly participated in the resistance and widely joined the masses.
...
The National Liberation Front of Sama and the Mujahedin Warriors Front of Rehayee were organised – both with an Islamic Republic as their perspective. This outlook not only tailed the spontaneous movement of the people against the coup regime, mainly with a religious tone, but also reflected the capitulationist line of the Islamic parties as well.

Sama as an organisation officially never claimed to be communist, and its internal programme was democratic. However, it openly… demanded an Islamic Republic.
....
These two organisations, which deemed participation in the war of resistance an absolute necessity, not only liquidated democratic struggle, but also, at the same time, by fighting under the banner of Islamism, gave up fighting for nationalism and secularism.

Most of the left organisations, despite the fact that they did not adopt a call for an Islamic republic in their programmes (some even pretending to work seriously for the formation of the Communist Party in Afghanistan), in practice disguised themselves as Islamic parties, never having the will or the power to fight independently.
....
The communists that were not communist and could not raise the independent banner of communism in the war of resistance against social-imperialism were defeated.

Another source is this rose-colored biography of the Maoist-influenced RAWA leader "Meena" (http://books.google.com/books?id=qPVuxclJ4N0C&pg=PA119&lpg=PA119&dq=afghanistan+maoists+mujahedeen+history+-nepal&source=web&ots=rrt7m_hHl2&sig=oWnFrxU_427xv2dNcbQ_NSRCAnA#PPA119,M1) It says "Many of the youthful leftists like the Maoists had abandoned their small parties and joined the mujahedeen to fight with one or another of the anti-Soviet armies. Faiz [Meena's husband, a Maoist], and those in his group who remained, tried to support them with medical and other aid. Peshawar was the best place to do that, but in the atmosphere of the warlord-dominated refugee camps, their secularist and leftist political views had to be concealed." (page 119)

Even RAWA itself: ""RAWA supported the Afghan war of resistance and provided as much support for the democratic mujahedeen as possible. RAWA developed strong contracts with doctors and nurses, and helped to send mobile medical teams into the provinces to help wounded civilians and guerrilla fighters." (page 92) The book goes on to claim they never supported the fundamentalists, but even if that's true, so what? The "democratic" mujahedeen, presumably meaning the Maoists, were minor allies of the fundamentalists. Aiding them could do nothing but help the fundamentalists into power. Which of course is what happened, historically.


On the contrary the article explains how many erroneous leftist groups joined the "Islamist" bandwagon and criticizes them for taking a passive role as mujahadeen allies rather than rising to steer the revolutionary wave away from fundamentalism and towards true people's revolution.


Yes, it describes how Maoist groups did that, and criticizes them. The author says that Maoist groups should have participated in the "war of resistance", that is the CIA's anticommunist jihad....openly under their own Maoist banner!

There was no "revolutionary wave" to steer away from fundamentalism. There was a counterrevolutionary wave, and the idea of participating in counterrevolution in order to turn it into revolution is just ridiculous. No surprise that most Afghan Maoists rapidly gave up that idea, and instead pretended to be Islamists like all the other mujahedeen - as the interview describes. He describes it in order to criticize it, but that's a ridiculous criticism.

If Maoists tried to fight alongside the fundamentalists while openly claiming to be communists, of course the fundamentalists would shoot them. So they stopped openly calling themselves communist.

This seems like a good reason not to fight alongside the fundamentalists against the PDPA's land reform and education of girls. Unfortunately, some Maoists still refuse to draw that obvious conclusion! Including RNK, and the guy in the interview.

(But in fairness, others Maoists like Spirit of Spartacus were able, in hindsight, to see the obvious.)

RNK
8th April 2007, 11:40
*Applaud*

That's a very, very good attempt to slander both me and the maoist interviewers. Kudos to you, Sev; your apologist nature of Kruschevite USSR is utterly undeniable.

You've still failed to draw any relation between the independant Maoists who became uncommunist and joined the mujahadeen, and the Maoist interviewee criticising them; infact, I'm really not sure what your point actually is. On the one hand you seem to be desperately trying to paint all Maoists as being pro-mujahadeen; then you admit that the interviewee in that article is criticizing those maoists that did side with the mujahadeen; and then you criticize it?


This seems like a good reason not to fight alongside the fundamentalists against the PDPA's land reform and education of girls.

Yes, god forbid anyone not accept the Moscow-controlled PDP's "glorious revolutionary reformism", which really was just an elitist bourgeois coup (which you've failed to even mention). Overall it seems you are trying to push your opinion that if given the choice between supporting one moderate evil or one large evil, we should throw down our revolutionary nature and unconditionally adopt that of the "lesser" evil -- democratic socialism.


The author says that Maoist groups should have participated in the "war of resistance", that is the CIA's anticommunist jihad....openly under their own Maoist banner!

No, the author says that Maoist groups should have uncompromisingly fought for proletarian revolution, and not abandoned their revolutionary proletarian principles in favour of an unconditional alliance with the islamists or the elitist bourgeois social-democratic PDP -- which is what you seem to suggest they should have done.

I'm sorry if the current Afghani maoists are not as "apologetic" or willing to abandon revolution in favour of embracing social democracy as you'd like. Not every revolution can be as "successful" as Cuba's. :rolleyes:

Nothing Human Is Alien
8th April 2007, 18:53
What does "not abandoning revolution" have to do with joining up with CIA-funded reactionaries in a counter-revolution??

Venezuela isn't socialist.. so, should "Maoists" there join up with CIA-funded rightists to overthrow Chavez? What kind of regime do you think would come out of that?

* * *

As far as the Saur Revolution.. if you really don't understand how education for women, secular law, widespread healthcare and literacy training, and land reform are better than women being forced to wear burqas, no education for women, Islamic law, and widespread poverty and ignorance.. then I think you should reconsider your approach.

Oh, and it's Afghan.. not "Afghani."

Cheung Mo
14th April 2007, 01:52
As much as I may deplore the Soviet bureaucracy and consider the revolution to have degenerated due to material conditions that allowed for the first reformist counterrevolutionary coup (Stalin and his bureaucratic cronies), I have a hard time arguing with the premise that it's better to shoot Islamists and warlords than it is to shoot feminists and secularists, as the U.S.-backed Islamist reactionaries were doing.

OneBrickOneVoice
14th April 2007, 03:15
Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 08, 2007 05:53 pm
As far as the Saur Revolution.. if you really don't understand how education for women, secular law, widespread healthcare and literacy training, and land reform are better than women being forced to wear burqas, no education for women, Islamic law, and widespread poverty and ignorance.. then I think you should reconsider your approach.

yes and the US imperialist "liberators" also promised jobs, secular law, equal rights blah blah blah imperialism is imperialism weither it is free market or state dominated. That said, I don't know much about this situation so I don't want to take a strong stand on it.

Comrade Castro
14th April 2007, 04:20
Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 08, 2007 12:53 pm
What does "not abandoning revolution" have to do with joining up with CIA-funded reactionaries in a counter-revolution??

Venezuela isn't socialist.. so, should "Maoists" there join up with CIA-funded rightists to overthrow Chavez? What kind of regime do you think would come out of that?

* * *

As far as the Saur Revolution.. if you really don't understand how education for women, secular law, widespread healthcare and literacy training, and land reform are better than women being forced to wear
As a side note, the only really somewhat Maoist party in Venezuela, Bandera Roja, joined the rightist opposition as soon as Chavez was elected, becoming their hired thugs, helping in the coup, sabotages, etc. Of course, the vast majority of this once truly revolutionary group (my uncle was one of their guerillas, the old regime tortured him into insanity, leading to suicide) went over to Chavez, so now the mere 120 pathetic traitors that remain in that party help the people who massacred their comrades.

Prairie Fire
14th April 2007, 06:21
I have mixed feelings about Afghanistan... Perhaps if the PDPA had steered a course that concentrated on both national self determination, as well as socialism,
they would have been the preferable choice. The problem is, the PDPA, like so many other communist movements, was in a sticky fix and had to play the hand it was dealt.

I am against Soviet social imperialism as a rule, but to side with the Mujahideen is insanity. Quite a dilemma.

My persynal feelings are that national soveriegnty is always preferable to foriegn imperialism, but in cases when one foreign imperialism is allready interfering against the progressive forces, at that time it's a fairgame. To denounce the Soviet presence in Afghanistan ignores the American presence influencing the outcome of events.

RNK

Howso? You feel that the Maoists should have recognized that the Soviet Union are good people, while they're destroying their homes, razing their villages and killing thousands? Or that they should have recognized the PDP as their true saviors, even as the PDP was purging opposition?

No one is denying the imperialist nature of soviet intervention in Afghanistan. The only problem is, what alternative was there? What revolutionary alternative? The Mujahideen were, as has been constantly pointed out, CIA backed, land owning,
feudalistic warlords. And the precious Maoist forces that you defend, did not mobilize the working class, nor did they make any strides towards socialist revolution in Afghanistan. As has been constantly pointed out, the Maoists became more of an obstacle to revolution, rather than trying to chart an independant path to Revolution.


So while the PDP was purging its political opponents, and the Soviets were demolishing villages and killing thousands, any good Marxist should have stopped and thought, "well, atleast they're not as bad as the Americans."?

That is Ironic, because around the time that Soviet imperialism was tearing up Afghanistan, The PRC actually took a staunchly pro-American line. Between the two Imperialist super powers ( USA and USSR), the Chinese leadership began to promote the idea that American imperialism was the "Lesser of two evils", putting forward the line that Soviet imperialism was still strong and dangerous, while American imperialism had been "tamed". The Chinese leadership picked a side in a conflict betwee n two imperialist super-powers , and yet you claim the Afghan masses had no right to do so?


On the contrary the article explains how many erroneous leftist groups joined the "Islamist" bandwagon and criticizes them for taking a passive role as mujahadeen allies rather than rising to steer the revolutionary wave away from fundamentalism and towards true people's revolution.

Well, that's nice that some of the Afghan Maoists denounced/criticized the reactionary capitulationism of others. Still, unless these Maoists created a substantial revolutionary movement to counter both the Mujahideen and Soviet social-imperialism, it was just words. This criticism didn't solve the problem, nor did it justify the reactionary line of the Maoist forces in Afghanistan.


The PDP was a small militant elitist group completely subservient to Moscow that came to power through a military coup, not a people's revolution

True. Still, by my count, that still makes them a hell of a lot better than anti-communist dictators like Mobutu and Pinochet, which Mao himself supported and shook hands with. It doesn't add up; to criticize the PDPA as being a elitist, puppet regime that came to power by way of coup is fine, but it is hypocritical to denounce them as "revolutionary democratic", because most of the leaders that Chairman Mao himself supported wern't even "revolutionary democratic", but downright capitalist, anti-communist dictators.


Kudos to you, Sev; your apologist nature of Kruschevite USSR is utterly undeniable.

I think Severian is a trot. Anyways, I also condemn Kruschevite revisionism, but being apologist for the openly reactionary actions of the Maoist forces in Afghanistan is just as incorrect.


You've still failed to draw any relation between the independant Maoists who became uncommunist and joined the mujahadeen, and the Maoist interviewee criticising them

Wether or not there is a connection is not the issue; we all know the history of the Afghan-soviet conflict, and we know that it didn't end with the people rallying under the banner of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism to overthrow the Mujihideen feudalists and the soviet social-imperialists. Because the Maoist forces, even the interviewee and his organizations, did not mobilize the masses to chart an independant course of genuine revolution, his words are meaningless. Wether or not the mainstream Maoist movement supported the Mujahideen in words, their actions did help to aid the mujhideen struggle, as their kronstdad-style split did harm to the soviet social-imperialists, but did nothing to hinder the progress of the Mujahideen and the other feudalist reactionaries. Written and verbal criticisms amount to nothing, as many Maoists openly took up guns for the mujahideen, and the others organized nothing significant to change the situation in Afghanistan.


Yes, god forbid anyone not accept the Moscow-controlled PDP's "glorious revolutionary reformism", which really was just an elitist bourgeois coup (which you've failed to even mention). Overall it seems you are trying to push your opinion that if given the choice between supporting one moderate evil or one large evil, we should throw down our revolutionary nature and unconditionally adopt that of the "lesser" evil -- democratic socialism.

As I've allready stated, Mao Tse-tung himself was actually quite fond of elitist bourgeosie cliques, or at least the ones he could influence. your denunciation of the PDPA is hypocritical, as Peking (Mao-era PRC) took the exact same approach as Moscow to every backwards, reactionary clique in every country of the developing world. The Chinese leadership actually took it one step further, supporting and aiding openly anti-communist regimes. You only denounce the PDPA because they were puppets of Moscow, rather than Peking.


No, the author says that Maoist groups should have uncompromisingly fought for proletarian revolution, and not abandoned their revolutionary proletarian principles in favour of an unconditional alliance with the islamists or the elitist bourgeois social-democratic PDP

Which they didn't. Had this been the case, I would most certainly supported a Maoist insurgency in Afghanistan (and I still might to this day). Instead, the Maoists were torn between the scholars on the sidelines and the open reactionaries.


Not every revolution can be as "successful" as Cuba's.

My party put forward a similar line back in the day. I've read pamphlets with "criticize Castroite revisionism" on them. Now, however, the situation no longer presents itself in such a way. PM me for further information.


Severian:


Beijing was allied with Washington, so it was allied with all of Washington's rightist regimes and rebel groups in the world. From Angola to Afghanistan, Mao and Maoists supported many of the most reactionary forces in the world.

:D My point exactly. Read "Imperialism and Revolution" by Enver Hoxha. He talks a lot about the Chinese leaderships two-faced denunciation of Soviet Social-Imperialism, while they openly supported the most reactionary cliques from Mobutu Sese Seko in Congo (Zaire), to Augusto Pinochet in Chile.


See, that's just moronic. "The rebellion is justified because of things that were done to put down the rebellion." Obviously the rebellion had to start first - and did start before the Soviet army was in Afghanistan - so what justified that?

<_< That line is actually pretty imperialist... Do you mean the Afghanistan situation particularly, or are you speaking generally?


And of course the mujahedeen had plenty of atrocities of their own, of course not given big headlines in the West at the time. Just look at what they did after the Soviet withdrawal.)

Just look what they did before the Soviet withdrawl; Captured Soviet prisoners were skinned alive.


Yes, it describes how Maoist groups did that, and criticizes them. The author says that Maoist groups should have participated in the "war of resistance", that is the CIA&#39;s anticommunist jihad....openly under their own Maoist banner&#33;[QUOTE]

Well, that&#39;s not entirely true. If the Maoist groups had waged struggle against both groups, charted an independant path from American-Imperialism and Soviet social-Imperialism, it may have been preferable.

CdL:
[QUOTE]Right; and they didn&#39;t need assistance until the CIA/Saudi/Chinese/Pakistani aid started pouring into the mujahdeen&#33; Even after that scum bag Gorbachev withdrew the Red Army; the revolutionary Afghan government stood on its own for some time; and defended itself against the imperialist/Islamist onslaught.

Interesting.


Of course I don&#39;t accept the thesis of Soviet social-imperialism as being very valid anyhow.



That&#39;s good, since no such thing existed. Ever.

Well, that&#39;s not exactly true. I know a lot of branches of Marxism reject the concept of Social-Imperialism, but it was actually a concept put forward by Lenin. I&#39;ll try and find the quote, but I think it&#39;s either in "What is to be Done" or "Imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism". If someone else has the quote, help me out here.


Cheung Mo:

As much as I may deplore the Soviet bureaucracy and consider the revolution to have degenerated due to material conditions that allowed for the first reformist counterrevolutionary coup (Stalin and his bureaucratic cronies), I have a hard time arguing with the premise that it&#39;s better to shoot Islamists and warlords than it is to shoot feminists and secularists, as the U.S.-backed Islamist reactionaries were doing.

Not to get off topic, but what do you do for a living, Cheung Mo? From what I&#39;ve gathered from your posts, you strike me as an art critic, or a literature critic, or a food critic, or any other type of critic. You strike me as someone with impossibly high standards, who denounces everything and spits on all achievements of others, criticizing things that you are not even informed about.

Seriously though, the only reason I ever see you post is to denounce things. Go away, you miserable Che T-shirt bastard (assuming that is a picture of yourself featured in your avatar).

Anyways, back on topic...

LeftyHenry:


yes and the US imperialist "liberators" also promised jobs, secular law, equal rights blah blah blah imperialism is imperialism wether it is free market or state dominated

True enough. Still, although I seem to be in bit of a Maoist bashing mood today, it must be recognized that in the late seventies and all through the 80&#39;s and nineties,
the Chinese leadership also became a player in the chess board of Imperialism. I don&#39;t just mean capitalist roaders like Deng; Mao shook hands and pledged funds to many notorious commie killers. In many nations, like Afghanistan, the Social-imperialist aspirations of the Chinese leadership acted as an extinguisher, rather than a conduit for revolution. While I agree with you very much, I don&#39;t think we agree on which nations were social imperialist.

Comrade Castro:


As a side note, the only really somewhat Maoist party in Venezuela, Bandera Roja, joined the rightist opposition as soon as Chavez was elected, becoming their hired thugs, helping in the coup, sabotages, etc. Of course, the vast majority of this once truly revolutionary group (my uncle was one of their guerillas, the old regime tortured him into insanity, leading to suicide) went over to Chavez, so now the mere 120 pathetic traitors that remain in that party help the people who massacred their comrades.

Bandera Roja... Unfortunately, as Cheung Mo has re-itterated mercilessly, Bandera Roja are not Maoists, but rather ex-Hoxhaists. The problem is, Hoxha died in 1985. Soviet Social imperialism collapsed in 1989-1991. Because of this, the entire system was dramatically shaken up, and the situation was much different then when Enver wrote his books in the seventies. The biggest problemwith most former Hoxhaist parties is they keep acting like it&#39;s 1975; they keep acting like Tirane is still a beacon of socialism. The world changed, and parties like Bandera Roja didn&#39;t change with it, hence they use out-dated social analysis and therefore have become an obstacle to revolution by acting in modes of struggle that no longer fit the international situation. Not to mention, there are probably a lot of capitalist roaders within the upper -echelons of the party. Respect if your uncle was a guerrilla for genuine Marxism-Leninism.

Nothing Human Is Alien
14th April 2007, 08:28
yes and the US imperialist "liberators" also promised jobs, secular law, equal rights blah blah blah

The difference is, the Saur Revolution delivered. It was a progressive, democratic revolution. It had nothing in common with imperialism.


imperialism is imperialism wether it is free market or state dominated

Imperialism is imperialism is .. something a bunch of people here don&#39;t seem to understand.

"Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development at which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital is established; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun, in which the division of all territories of the globe among the biggest capitalist powers has been completed." -Lenin, Imperialism the Highest Stage of Capitalism, LCW Volume 22, p. 266-7.

"The development of capitalism has arrived at a stage when, although commodity production still "reigns" and continues to be regarded as the basis of economic life, it has in reality been undermined and the bulk of the profits go to the "geniuses" of financial manipulation. At the basis of these manipulations and swindles lies socialized production; but the immense progress of mankind, which achieved this socialization, goes to benefit... the speculators." (p. 206-207)


No one is denying the imperialist nature of soviet intervention in Afghanistan.

I am; since the USSR wasn&#39;t imperialist.


Interesting

Yeah.. here&#39;s a bit of an article the Sparts have on the subject. (http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/archives/oldsite/2002/Rawa.htm) I don&#39;t agree with alot of the shit in it, but it explains this point...

"Despite massive financial and military support from the imperialists, the mujahedin did not militarily defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, as the imperialists and their fake-left apologists assert. By 1984, the Red Army and PDPA forces had practically won the war and the CIA’s “holy warriors” were shattered and demoralized. The government’s modest reforms, though scaled back from even the moderate program the PDPA first put forward, were winning support in the countryside.

"But in November 1986, in a vain attempt to placate U.S. imperialism and strike a “peace” deal with Ronald Reagan, the Kremlin Stalinists under Gorbachev declared they would pull all Red Army troops out of Afghanistan in two years. By 1989, in a move that imperiled and betrayed both the Afghan and Soviet peoples, the troops were completely withdrawn, thus handing over hundreds of thousands of Afghan women, leftists and workers to be tortured, dismembered and beheaded as “infidels.” In solidarity with the Afghan masses who were waging a bitter struggle for survival in the wake of the Soviet withdrawal, on 7 February 1989 the Partisan Defense Committee (the class-struggle legal and social defense organization associated with the Spartacist League/U.S.) formally proposed to the Afghan government “to organize an international brigade to fight to the death” to defend “the right of women to read, freedom from the veil, freedom from the tyranny of the mullahs and the landlords, the introduction of medical care and the right of all to an education.”

"This offer was declined, but at the request of the government, the PDC and its fraternal organizations internationally organized a fund drive to aid the civilian victims of the all-out mujahedin offensive against the city of Jalalabad. In two months, over &#036;44,000 was raised, overwhelmingly from small donations from tens of thousands of people, many of them immigrant workers throughout West Europe, Asia and North America and women in Muslim communities. The siege of Jalalabad was defeated. The PDPA hung on for another three hard-fought years until 1992, when the mujahedin finally took Kabul."

Emphasis mine.

Spirit of Spartacus
14th April 2007, 10:43
One Maoist comrade, RNK, has come out in open denunciation of the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan.

Another Maoist comrade, Leftyhenry, is taking a somewhat more cautious line, but he too states:


yes and the US imperialist "liberators" also promised jobs, secular law, equal rights blah blah blah imperialism is imperialism weither it is free market or state dominated. That said, I don&#39;t know much about this situation so I don&#39;t want to take a strong stand on it.

The problem is that the Saur Revolution in Afghanistan took place BEFORE the Soviets entered the country.

In fact, Brezhnev refused requests from the Afghan government on numerous occasions.
The PDPA was getting tied down in irregular warfare against the Mujahideen, and they kept sending delegations to Moscow to request Brezhnev for troops.
And it was only with the greatest of reluctance that the Soviets intervened...that too in order to save face. It would have put the Soviets in a difficult position if the Mujahideen had seized power in Afghanistan, since there were allied Islamist elements within the Central Asian territories of the USSR, who would have posed a considerable threat to the Soviet bloc.


In any case, RNK appears to be sticking to a doctrinaire Beijing line, and that is causing problems.

For one, most opponents of the PDPA simply ignore their efforts towards working-class empowerment, rural development and other beneficial policies. To oppose such a regime on the dogmatic grounds of "Soviet Social Imperialism" is ridiculous.

Even if we accept the shaky arguments advanced for "Soviet Social Imperialism", does it mean that any socialist regime which sided with the USSR somehow automatically became reactionary, regardless of what efforts they undertook to build socialism in their countries?



By the way, I think some people here will be interested to know of the fate of Afghanistan&#39;s two greatest Maoist leaders.

Meena Keshwar Kamal, founder of RAWA (Revolutionary Association for the Women of Afghanistan) and her husband Faiz Ahmad (Afghanistan Liberation Organization), both ended up being killed by elements loyal to the fundamentalist Mujahid leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.

Nothing Human Is Alien
14th April 2007, 13:37
RAWA is a pro-imperialist joke BTW.

OneBrickOneVoice
14th April 2007, 18:24
Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 14, 2007 12:37 pm
RAWA is a pro-imperialist joke BTW.
why do you say that? Do they support the US occupation or something?

OneBrickOneVoice
14th April 2007, 18:51
Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development at which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital is established; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun, in which the division of all territories of the globe among the biggest capitalist powers has been completed

I don&#39;t see how this dissproves social imperialism especially on the point of trusts and of divying up the globe.


The difference is, the Saur Revolution delivered. It was a progressive, democratic revolution. It had nothing in common with imperialism.

it was a coup, by a faction of the military, basically the PDPA were agents of Soviet social-imperialism.


does it mean that any socialist regime which sided with the USSR somehow automatically became reactionary, regardless of what efforts they undertook to build socialism in their countries?

well they weren&#39;t building socialism. The efforts they undertook made them tied to the Soviet Union and Soviet aid and Soviet trade like Banana Republics. That&#39;s not national determination and liberation which socialism is founded on, its the opposite

Nothing Human Is Alien
14th April 2007, 20:43
Man, you should look into the history of something on your own before puppeting nonsense from people that came before you (that equally had no idea what they were talking about).


I don&#39;t see how this dissproves social imperialism especially on the point of trusts and of divying up the globe.


Maybe you don&#39;t understand what you read?

Finance capital wasn&#39;t dominate in the USSR; capital export didn&#39;t reach "pronounced importance"; there were no "international trusts" in the USSR; etc.

Also, capitalist property relations were overturned in the USSR, and imperialism expelled from the territory. That didn&#39;t just magically reverse when Stalin died.


it was a coup, by a faction of the military,

There&#39;s more than one way to take state power (see also: Grenada). Also, the coup was initiated by a crackdown by Daoud on the party (Kaibar was already assassinated, with more to follow).


basically the PDPA were agents of Soviet social-imperialism.

"Soviet social-imperialism" doesn&#39;t exist; and the PDPA took power and held on to it long before the Red Army was asked to intervene. Even then the USSR didn&#39;t want to send troops. It was only when they saw the threat of the CIA-funded mujadeen taking power in Afghanistan and spreading their reactionary counter-revolution to the Central Asian Soviet Republics that they acted.

There&#39;s nothing wrong with this; and it was one of the more progressive things the USSR did in its last years: helping to spread the revolution. It&#39;s alot better than supporting U.S.-backed counter-revolutionaries in Africa as PRC did.


well they weren&#39;t building socialism.

What were they doing? How can you uphold the "new democratic" stage in Nepal, but not the Saur Revolution; which was much more revolutionary (land reform, literacy brigades, bringing women into schools and industry, etc.).


The efforts they undertook made them tied to the Soviet Union and Soviet aid and Soviet trade like Banana Republics. That&#39;s not national determination and liberation which socialism is founded on, its the opposite

The Maoist idea of self-sufficiency is reactionary, and impossible. Capitalism was a progessive step from fuedalism for a few reasons.. one big one being international trade. No country can exist isolated from trade with other countries in the present epoch.. so, trade with the USSR, on preferential rates (i.e. getting more for your goods than world market value) is alot better than trade with imperialist countries that try to cut your throat.

OneBrickOneVoice
15th April 2007, 04:17
Finance capital wasn&#39;t dominate in the USSR; capital export didn&#39;t reach "pronounced importance"; there were no "international trusts" in the USSR; etc.

yes it was, especially in the 1980s on, and who do you think provided the goods for trade? The intervention in Afghanistan was just a periodic redividing of controlled land.


Also, capitalist property relations were overturned in the USSR, and imperialism expelled from the territory. That didn&#39;t just magically reverse when Stalin died.

read on Krushchev&#39;s Phoney Communism and its Historical Lessons by Mao Tse-tung. It can be found on the MIA. It highlights how new capitalist workshops were being formed based on the looseness of Khrushchevite planning. These were supposedly "underground" according to the socialist-in-name government, however they were widespread and rapidly growing due to managers and bourgeiosie remnants taking an opportunist line. He proves this by looking at the Soviet newspaper articles appearing about the phenomenon. I&#39;m not saying it magically reversed when Stalin died. If you knew your Soviet history, which you claim I should learn, you&#39;d know that Malenkov came after Khruschev and that it was Khruschev who hijacked the party and took a sectarian, factually inaccurate sledge hammer to the communist movement as Trotsky and Bakhurin had tried to do before him. And capitalist restoration was not quick and magic even then, but the attitudes of leaders were clearly reactionary and definatly against moving socialism forward in the Soviet Union.


There&#39;s more than one way to take state power

There is the contradiciton on how to take power in an imperialist, industrialized country, and a semi-fuedal country. But neither one is done independent of the masses, as a coup is.


"Soviet social-imperialism" doesn&#39;t exist; and the PDPA took power and held on to it long before the Red Army was asked to intervene.

Long? Like less then a year you mean? Yes it does, and just the fact that they "invited" the Soviets to raze the villages should be proof enough. And that they fell nearly simulataneously with the fall of the Soviet Union.


Even then the USSR didn&#39;t want to send troops. It was only when they saw the threat of the CIA-funded mujadeen taking power in Afghanistan and spreading their reactionary counter-revolution to the Central Asian Soviet Republics that they acted.

In other words, they wanted to protect their imperial interests in Afghanistan. The coup was a revisionist social-democratic one and was doomed because it was separated from the workers and the masses. The real way the PDPA should&#39;ve gone about it was to "win the hearts and minds" of the people rather than to just call in their puppeteers to raze the countryside and villages. It was on this principle that the maoists chose to resist the Soviet imperialists, and it is on this principle that the Maoists are organizing for a people&#39;s war against the US imperialists


It&#39;s alot better than supporting U.S.-backed counter-revolutionaries in Africa as PRC did.

Unlike the revisionist Soviet Union which only supported those movements which were East-side-of-the-Berlin-wallers, the People&#39;s Republic of China supported every single movement in Africa that asked for aid and was anti-colonialism and pro-national liberation and determination. The US was just trying to take advantage of the sino-soviet split. China was sticking with its principle. You, as a guevarist should recognize this a Che himself in his book "The African Dream: The Diaries of the Revolutionary War in the Congo" said that everywhere he went Chinese arms and weapons were to be found and that sometimes the revolutionaries had more aid and were better equipped than the colonists. Also keep in mind, early on when China was aiding UNITA they were a maoist organization, but became traitors.


What were they doing?

building a banana republic to the Soviet Union.


How can you uphold the "new democratic" stage in Nepal, but not the Saur Revolution; which was much more revolutionary (land reform, literacy brigades, bringing women into schools and industry, etc.).

you don&#39;t think all those things will happen in the New Democratic Stage? Let me provide you with a quote on the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) &#39; s short term line


Originally posted by Comrade Guarev
"Now the Nepalese revolution is at a crossroads, with 2 possibilities open, that of free and fair elections leading to the abolition of the monarchy, or that of intervention in that process which would lead the CPN(Maoist) to support the masses in declaring a republic from the streets in general insurrection."


The Maoist idea of self-sufficiency is reactionary

:lol: oh yeah of course national liberation and freedom from imperialism: tooottally reactionary.


and impossible.

Hoxhaite Albania and Maoist China did it


Capitalism was a progessive step from fuedalism for a few reasons.. one big one being international trade. No country can exist isolated from trade with other countries in the present epoch..

You have a poor understanding of what national determination and liberation means. It&#39;s not isolation, its just not being dominated by a power. It&#39;s progressively developing a national economy that sustains the people. We are not advocating completely cutting off all trade, just not being totally dependent on a "superpower"&#39;s trade and aid.


so, trade with the USSR, on preferential rates (i.e. getting more for your goods than world market value)

I doubt that, and even if that&#39;s so, it still was responsible for the "special period" in Cuba. Cuba had no master anymore, and the result was crystal clear: massive depression followed by massive systematic reform. This was a result of decades of dependence on Soviet aid and trade, in particular oil. Instead of restructuring their economy so that it would feed their people they chose to just switch from being tied to America to being even more tied to the Soviet Union.

grove street
15th April 2007, 13:01
Afghan people I have spoken to take greate pride in the Mujahadeens victory over the Soviets, but hate the Taliban and what they did.

I think this has to do with the fact that although they were reactionaries who were originally overthrowing a pro-peasant/workers government, by the time the Russians invaded, the people of Afghanistan who were mostly peasants and workers didn&#39;t view the Russian&#39;s a liberators, but as foreign invaders who didn&#39;t belong and had no right interfering with their country. This is similar to the Iraqi Shia reaction to the US occupation of Iraq. Even though Shia were persecuted by Saddamn and tried to overthrow him numerous of times. They still hate America for invading and interfering with their country and lives.

The Taliban had almost nothing to do with the Mujahdeen movement during the Soviet invasion. The Taliban formed years after the Russians left in the tribal mountain reigons of Pakistan along the Afghan-Pakistan border. Taliban is Arabic for student and refers to the Afghan children (boys) who grew up in the refugge camps of Pakistan who turned to religion as a form of comfort.

RNK
15th April 2007, 14:25
The Maoist idea of self-sufficiency is reactionary

Then please explain to me how a post-revolutionary socialist state is supposed to survive in a world dominated by reactionary right-wing capitalist economies? I doubt the United States would react kindly to someone coming up to them and saying, "Hi, we want to completely destroy your entire capitalist economy. Now will you please sell us food and mechanical equipment?"

Joseph Ball
16th April 2007, 00:01
The Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan is not really pro-imperialist. If you look at the statements on their webisite they insist the western invasion of their country has not improved the position of women.

They are not at all Maoist however, whatever the history of some of their members. They sound like bourgeois nationalists.

Severian
16th April 2007, 04:46
Originally posted by RNK+April 08, 2007 04:40 am--> (RNK &#064; April 08, 2007 04:40 am) No, the author says that Maoist groups should have uncompromisingly fought for proletarian revolution, and not abandoned their revolutionary proletarian principles in favour of an unconditional alliance with the islamists [/b]
Emphasis added by me. You and the guy in the interview only oppose unconditional alliance with the fundamentalists.

Which necessarily means you support a conditional alliance.

This is a pretty tomato-tomahto distinction. Really, we&#39;re saying the same thing happened - we just have different opinions about whether it was right.

IMO, supporting the counterrevolution is wrong, whether you do it conditionally or unconditionally. Whether you do it under an Islamist banner, or under a Maoist banner, or the banner of the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care - it&#39;s still counterrevolution.

That was my whole point in my earlier post, but maybe I gave too many facts.


Originally posted by Spirit of Spartacus+--> (Spirit of Spartacus)By the way, I think some people here will be interested to know of the fate of Afghanistan&#39;s two greatest Maoist leaders.

Meena Keshwar Kamal, founder of RAWA (Revolutionary Association for the Women of Afghanistan) and her husband Faiz Ahmad (Afghanistan Liberation Organization), both ended up being killed by elements loyal to the fundamentalist Mujahid leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.[/b]

While they were working in support of the fundamentalists, as documented in the pro-RAWA book I quoted earlier.


Originally posted by grove street
Afghan people I have spoken to take greate pride in the Mujahadeens victory over the Soviets, but hate the Taliban and what they did....The Taliban had almost nothing to do with the Mujahdeen movement during the Soviet invasion. The Taliban formed years after the Russians left in the tribal mountain reigons of Pakistan along the Afghan-Pakistan border.

Many Afghans, certainly, are pro-fundamentalist or otherwise anticommunist, in part because of the arrogant, bureaucratic way the PDPA went about imposing change from above. That doesn&#39;t make them right.

The mujahedeen were in some ways even worse than the Taliban. That&#39;s why many Afghans initially supported the Taliban - hoping they&#39;d bring law and order and put an end to the bandit-like rule of a million squabbling mujahedeen factions. Two large mujahedeen factions - Rabbani&#39;s and Hekmatyar&#39;s - destroyed a big part of Kabul fighting between themselves.

The Taliban were famous for their rabid opposition to any rights for women, but the mujahedeen were almost as bad. Again, they took up arms against the PDPA in large part because they opposed its women&#39;s-rights measures, as well as its land reform and debt relief. Even pro-mujahedeen books admit this.

Oh, and CdeL&#39;s right. The USSR obviously had nothing to do with imperialism in the sense of economic exploitation by finance capital. On the contrary, it net subsidized both the Central Asian regions of the USSR and Afghanistan itself.

This was one reason many Afghan officers trained in the USSR supported the PDPA&#39;s coup - they were impressed by the subsidized economic development of Soviet Central Asia. And no, the advanced capitalist countries do not do anything of the sort. This would be a very different world if they did.


Joseph [email protected]
The Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan is not really pro-imperialist. If you look at the statements on their webisite they insist the western invasion of their country has not improved the position of women.

Yeah, let&#39;s look at their website, shall we? (http://[url=http://www.rawa.org/na-appeal.htm)


RAWA website
We would like to emphatically ask the UN to send its effective peace-keeping force into the country before the NA can repeat the unforgettable crimes they committed in the said years.

They say the current form of western invasion, allied with the Northern Alliance, hasn&#39;t improved the position of women....so they call for a different type of imperialist intervention, under the UN flag.

As I said to RNK earlier in this post, counter-revolution doesn&#39;t become revolution because you fly a different banner over it.....

You have to look at things, not just the labels on them.



See, that&#39;s just moronic. "The rebellion is justified because of things that were done to put down the rebellion." Obviously the rebellion had to start first - and did start before the Soviet army was in Afghanistan - so what justified that?

dry.gif That line is actually pretty imperialist... Do you mean the Afghanistan situation particularly, or are you speaking generally?

It applies generally, of course. Before you take up arms, you oughta have a reason. Isn&#39;t that self-evident? Why would you or anyone object to it?

Spirit of Spartacus
16th April 2007, 07:48
Afghan people I have spoken to take greate pride in the Mujahadeens victory over the Soviets, but hate the Taliban and what they did.



The Afghan "pride" in the Mujahideen victory (which was actually a victory of US imperialism and its Pakistani lackeys) is somewhat understandable.

I mean, the PDPA came to power somewhere in 1978. And by the end of 1979, the reactionary Mujahideen insurgency had already driven them to the point where they had to call in Soviet assistance.

So, its rather understandable that Afghan people would be "proud" of the fact that the Mujahideen defeated the Soviets.

Heck, for a lot of the time, the PDPA and their Soviet allies couldn&#39;t even control most of the countryside.

Severian
16th April 2007, 08:15
Originally posted by LeftyHenry+April 13, 2007 08:15 pm--> (LeftyHenry @ April 13, 2007 08:15 pm)
Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 08, 2007 05:53 pm
As far as the Saur Revolution.. if you really don&#39;t understand how education for women, secular law, widespread healthcare and literacy training, and land reform are better than women being forced to wear burqas, no education for women, Islamic law, and widespread poverty and ignorance.. then I think you should reconsider your approach.

yes and the US imperialist "liberators" also promised jobs, secular law, equal rights blah blah blah imperialism is imperialism weither it is free market or state dominated. That said, I don&#39;t know much about this situation so I don&#39;t want to take a strong stand on it. [/b]
Ironically, the exact same argument is made by the "Free Tibet" people:


Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 09:35 pm

Tino [email protected] 13 2006, 08:33 PM
China brought the modern world to Tibet. If you&#39;d rather live in the dalai lamas feudalistic shithole then you are clearly a MORON.
Yeah, and the capitalism and imperialism brought the first world to the Native Americans.

GO CAPITALISM GO IMPERIALISM
from this thread (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=57205&st=25)

The failure to think is the same in both cases: a refusal to look at what&#39;s actually going on, a preference for slogans and assumptions instead.

grove street
17th April 2007, 07:11
The Arab countires didn&#39;t support the mujhadeen, they were in reality rooting for the Soviets. The Arab goverments who were mostly secular emptyed their prisons fill of Islamists and encouraged Islamists to fight in Afghanistan, in the hope of them being killed.

As long as the Islamists were in Afghanistan it meant that the secular Arab governments didn&#39;t have to worry about them causing trouble and trying to overthrow the government and inforce Islamic rule.

Joseph Ball
18th April 2007, 00:15
Joseph Ball-&#39;The Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan is not really pro-imperialist. If you look at the statements on their webisite they insist the western invasion of their country has not improved the position of women.&#39;

Sevarin&#39;Yeah, let&#39;s look at their website, shall we?&#39;
QUOTE (RAWA website)
We would like to emphatically ask the UN to send its effective peace-keeping force into the country before the NA can repeat the unforgettable crimes they committed in the said years.

They say the current form of western invasion, allied with the Northern Alliance, hasn&#39;t improved the position of women....so they call for a different type of imperialist intervention, under the UN flag.&#39;

I&#39;m not defending RAWA&#39;s political stance as they are not maoist and I am. But I think the women of Afghanistan are in an absolutelly terrible position and I would urge everyone to read RAWA&#39;s analysis of the current situation at http://www.rawa.org/events/dec10-06_e.htm

All of the Fundamentalist forces that RAWA oppose got direct or indirect support from the Yanks, as RAWA know very well. The US and UK are the enemies of the people the world over and even non-marxists in the oppressed nations are perfectly well aware of this. This creates a problem as many forces fighting against western imperialism are reactionaries too, like the Taliban. This doesn&#39;t mean the left should turn into cheerleaders for the Taliban. It means we struggle to build our own alternative. In no way does this mean adopting irrelevant moralistic stances that &#39;both sides are as bad as each other&#39;. The over-arching cause of the misery of the Afghan people is imperialism. Our strategy must be based on how best to defeat the whole system of imperialism not on moralism about who is worse than who-local or foreign reactionaries.

Nothing Human Is Alien
18th April 2007, 00:33
But I think the women of Afghanistan are in an absolutelly terrible position

Yes, they are.. but they were making immense gains after the Saur Revolution. RAWA opposed these gains, and allied themselves with the imperialist-backed mujadeen against the revolutionary Afghan government&#33;

Keshwar Kamal acted as a spokesperson of the "Afghan resistance" during a tour of Europe.

RAWA even supports the return of former-King Zahir Shah&#33;

During the mujadeen&#39;s counter-revolution, 15,000 Afghan women had joined PDPA-organized militias to defend their rights, while the RAWA while much smaller and more isolated. It&#39;s not hard to understand why.