anarcho-syndicalism

[red head]

i haven't read much rudolf rocker, but from what i've read about syndicalism, it seems like a very reasonable way to organize a society. at very least, its a lot more fiesable than leninism or similar bullshit. i was wondering if there are any strong arguements against it.

[new democracy]

i am not an anarcho-syndicalist but i give them respect for creating alternative trade unions than the corupt capitalist ones.

[evil chris]

err,no.Nowt really that comes to mind.It's a pretty sound set of ideas,routed and demonstrated in practicallity.Which is why i tend it side with them i guess :)
The only dodgy bit is that some Anarchists (particually Pureists) can be a bit misty eyed about issues like crime.Sydicalism realises that there will always be ****s and we need to protect ourselves against them.As s State can be defined as a group of people claiming legitimate authority within a set boundery a Miliita or people's watch can be seen as a State opperation (<cough> bollocks>) and Anarchists would raile against them.Syndacalists, by and large won't.

respect
chris the bear

[oki]

anarcho syndicalism is the most realistic and practical form of anarchism and I like it too.don't know if it would still work today though....people's ideals have changed,and this form allways worked best in country's where the classstruggle was very hard.

[evil chris]

oki.If you can find some stuff about whats going on in Algeria right now you might change your mind.Kabyile (sp) is under Anarcho Syndacalist control _as_we_speak.So the Revolution can happen :)
And on a home note, as Mutal Aid and Free Asocciation are the main teants of Anarchism(and A-S) the little co-ops and alt Unions knocking around(aswell as your relations with your friends ) can be seen as Anarchy In Action - so the Revolution isn't just possible, it's ongoing and we are in it!

[red head]

do you have any links to information on the algeria thing chris? i was unaware of it. also, i disagree with you oki, i think that its very plausible and very well-supported, as membership in the IWW and the large following the idea has in australia and spain shows.

[evil chris]

it would be easier if you speak French.
If not it's fuckin hard.Things come out in dribs and drabs in little panflets.
There is a Half-Arsed Photocopy Job LTD. sheet that comes out now and again called Fight Back that usaly carrys something about Algeria.It's written by a nasty little Stalinist though so take it with a pinch of salt.
There was a huge essay on Indy Meida a while ago.I didn't save it to my puter but when the One Minute Silence comes back online i will hopefully be able to pull it off there.
Most of my information comes from a chap i know who can read French.It being an ex french colony , they keep an eye on it.
Unfortunatly for the English speaking world it isn;t a sexy cause like Palistine.
I'll see what i can do for you though, k ?

respect

[Frosty]

Any links to good anarcho-syndicalism sites?

[vox]

Frosty,

You might want to check out www.anarchosyndicalism.org (http://www.anarchosyndicalism.org) for more info. Also, don't forget the Wobblies (http://www.iww.org/). I'm not sure if the IWW is officially anarcho-syndicalist, but it's certainly sypathetic.

vox

[peaccenicked]

Gramsci, looks at the roots of Syndicalist abstensionism.
Here (http://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/editions/spn/modern_prince/ch07.htm)

[oki]

well in algiers the situation is different from in the west,very hard life and big gap between ritch and poor,when I said I doubted I was thinking of the west actually.I would love to see something on that algiers commune too.anarchism will never die,as long as people want freedom there will be anarchism!

[red head]

i was wondering about the wobblies to vox. does anyone know for sure if they are officially anarcho-syndicalist still? i know they link to www.anarchosyndicalism.org on their webpage, and that their colors are red and black, so they might just be. as far as anarcho-syndicalism being unlikely in the west, yeah, its true that we probably won't see full-fledged anarchism in the US in our lifetimes. but i see anarcho-syndicalism as the best way to fight for it, because the union is a great way to link to other anarchist in a way that can actually change something. rather than a bunch of anarchists spread out all over the country and the world, you've got a consolidated group of them right there in the workplace.

[BOZG]

If the unions were used correctly they could be a powerful body to set the revolution in motion but unfortunately at the moment trade unions actually cause splits betweent the different sects of workers by dividing between skilled and unskilled etc. There must be a greater emphasis put on unity.

[vox]

Red Head,

If you're interested in the IWW, you may also be interested in Daniel DeLeon, who, according to marxists.org, helped to found it. You can read some of his stuff there (http://www.marxists.org/archive/deleon/index.htm) and also at the site for the Socialist Labor Party (http://www.marxism.net/), a De Leonist party.

DeLeon believed that the industrial union is the best vehicle to bring about socialism and is also the basis for a new society.

vox

[Conghaileach]

Other famous socialists who helped form the IWW were Eugene V. Debs (http://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/index.htm) and James Connolly (http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/index.htm).

Regarding Debs&#39; most IWW-based works, they are probably Revolutionary Unionism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/works/1905/revunion.htm) and Speech to the IWW Founding Convention (http://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/works/1905/iwwfound.htm).

Connolly&#39;s most syndicalist work is probably Socialism Made Easy (http://www.rcgfrfi.easynet.co.uk/ww/connolly/).

[Guest1]

well, they have the cat on their site. what doea that mean? I&#39;ve seen it around on a lot of anarchist works and posters. I wonder what it means, but I would assume it means they are syndicalist.

[Blackberry]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 8 2003, 09:22 AM
well, they have the cat on their site. what doea that mean? I&#39;ve seen it around on a lot of anarchist works and posters. I wonder what it means, but I would assume it means they are syndicalist.
It is the IWW mascot.

Here (http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/anarchism/theory/anarcho-syndicalism/) is a good list of anarcho-syndicalist works.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by evil [email protected] 27 2002, 06:42 PM
If you can find some stuff about whats going on in Algeria right now you might change your mind.Kabyile (sp) is under Anarcho Syndacalist control _as_we_speak.
I wouldn&#39;t call the Kabyile rebellion syndicalist. Anarchist, but not syndicalist. IIRC, there is no syndicalist union in Algeria. It is a spontaneous rebellion of the masses, not an anarcho-syndicalist revolution. Reading on the rebellion in Algeria:

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?...2/12/30/5696349 (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=02/12/30/5696349)
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?...3/01/08/7265070 (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=03/01/08/7265070)
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?...3/02/24/6605536 (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=03/02/24/6605536)
http://geocities.com/cordobakaf/algeria.html

An example of anarcho-syndicalism in practice is the Spanish Revolution (http://www.struggle.ws/spaindx.html)

My main disagreement with syndicalism is that they focus on unions too much. Organizing revolutionary unions is a good thing, but it isn&#39;t the be all and end all of revolutionary organizing. See Why Are Many Anarchists Not Anarcho-Syndicalists? (http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secJ3.html#secj39)

[Som]

As far as I know, the IWW is officially apolitical, so they don&#39;t take a specific line towards it. though I gather most of their members are anarcho-syndicalists. Its a bit of a trivial distinction really, actually as i remember, the CNT was officially apolitical too.