Nepal: Maoists to join cabinet [Archive]

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Severian

31st March 2007, 11:47

Kantipur (http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=105182) and numerous other news sources report:

Finally, the deal is done. The eight political parties on Friday agreed to form a 26-member interim government, inducting former rebels. The interim-government will be announced on Saturday.

Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala on Saturday will take oath of office in the interim parliament, after which he will administer oath to all ministers.

With the induction of former rebels in the interim government, the Maoists who waged armed struggle against the state for more than 10 years will officially become part of the state from Saturday.

This article has some more information on the division of ministries. (http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=105222)

To summarize the information reported so far:
Nepal Congress Party: Prime Minister, Defense, Home Ministry, Finance, Peace and Reconstruction.
Communist Party of Nepal (United Marxist-Leninist): Foreign Affairs, Agriculture, Education, General Administration, Tourism
Smaller parties: Land Reform, Industry, Transport, Labor, etc.
....and......(drum roll please)
Communist Party of Nepal(Maoist):
Information, Local Development, Works, Soil Conservation, Women, Children and Social Welfare.

Gee, look who held on to every ministry involving economic or military power?

The CPN(Maoist) has not only sold its last pretense (always just a pretense) to be revolutionary....it didn't even get a mess of pottage. More like a spoonful.

***

I'd just like to quote a couple of past statements by fans of the CPN(M) on this board. It should be apparent how amazingly clueless they are in light of current events. Of course, I'm sure these individuals will put on some rose-colored glasses and continue to claim the CPN(M) is marching forward.....using some excuse or other.

In reality, the CPN(M) seems less relevant every day. And has less leverage even for seeking some role in the existing order, as shown by this division of posts.

for example (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=63229)

Originally posted by Spirit of Spartacus

Having the interior ministry in your pocket is just as effective as any other form of "state power".

Or better yet, Joseph Ball:

The maoists are not in the government. Meaningful progress towards holding Constituent Assembly elections in June is not taking place. The Maoists are attempting to form an alliance with other parties to declare a republic. The leaders of the 7 parties are not likely to be keen on this demand, as in actual fact they tend to see the monarchy as their guarantee against communist takeover. I don't think that there is going to be a constituent assembly election first, followed by the declaration of a republic. I think there will need to be country-wide struggle to create the republic, led by the Maoists. Elections will only take place after this. Read Ekantipur, the Nepalese news service for (very anti-maoist) updates on what's going on in the country.
thread (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=63229&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292272338)

***

The CPN(M) grassroots seem more active in bloody clashes with the Madheshi People's Rights Forum (http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=105025) than anything else.

One interesting question: what's the relationship between the MPRF and the Madheshi splitoffs from the CPN(M)? To what extent is the hostility and bloodshed between the MPRF and the CPN(M) driven by factionalism resulting from that split? (http://worldpoliticswatch.com/article.aspx?id=667) The MPRF does seem to have a certain similarity of methods with the CPN(M), whether that's from political descent or from imitation....

Ander

31st March 2007, 14:35

I'm trying to see the best in this but I'm not going to fool myself. The Maoists got severely fucked over on this one. Either they continue their People's War or fuck them for selling out.

quirk

31st March 2007, 14:46

I don't think they expected to get any of the big ministries such as defence. I think what the CPN(M) is hoping on, is that they will win an outright majority in the next elections and use this as a basis to seize power. I have alot of problems with this, however all we can do is wait and see.

OneBrickOneVoice

31st March 2007, 15:41

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 10:47 am

what I don't understand is why the SWP is whining about this? They're the party that spends its resources on campaigning, funding candidates, and encouraging its members to vote instead of revolt.

This article has some more information on the division of ministries. (http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=105222)

doesn't show what maoists are getting.

Communist Party of Nepal(Maoist):
Information, Local Development, Works, Soil Conservation, Women, Children and Social Welfare.

yeah what a shame, welfare is under the maoists control as well as works, and woman's rights and local development. The maoists will only be able to create a extensive welfare program, give woman equal rights, develop public works in a socialist manner and etc..

The CPN(Maoist) has not only sold its last pretense (always just a pretense) to be revolutionary....it didn't even get a mess of pottage. More like a spoonful.

this won't matter. From this position they'll be able to push forward a socialistic agenda as well as create an anti-imperialist state. Just what you DON'T want to see. And it is revolutionary. It has reached the New Democratic Stage. The CPN-M spokepeople have said time an time again that if they don't get rid of the monarchy and don't get rid foreign domination of wealth and fuedalism, they will take the struggle to the streets.

Meanwhile the SWP has wasted all its resources on undermining the CPN-M and the CPC's revolutions and on promoting reformism which is of course very revolutionary.

It never ceases to amaze me how sectarian your party and you are Severian.

The CPN(M) grassroots seem more active in bloody clashes with the Madheshi People's Rights Forum (http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=105025) than anything else.

the CPN-M does have cadre who just use the party to be thugs. And have consistantly said that they will track down any members who do engage in those type of actions.

Anyhow, that source is filled with shit. Look at what happened when you tried to portray the maoists as homophobic, using that source and then got shut down by TC when that was proven as an action to desecrate the maoists.

OneBrickOneVoice

31st March 2007, 15:44

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 01:35 pm
I'm trying to see the best in this but I'm not going to fool myself. The Maoists got severely fucked over on this one. Either they continue their People's War or fuck them for selling out.
no they haven't. Not only do they have the keys to arms of both the People's Liberation Army and the Royal Nepalese Army now, but also, they are in a position to end the monarchy, end fuedalism, end foreign domination of Nepal, end fuedalism, and push forward a socialist agenda and welfare program. They have also gained greater access to the cities and thus have gained a jump in numbers of members in the People's Liberation Army according to comrade guarev.

blazeofglory

31st March 2007, 16:14

Well I am a Nepali myself, and this is my 1st post in this forum though I regularly view this site because it suits my 'leftism', so let me comment on this.

Hope evry1 here knows about the CPN (M)....

Now since somebody talked of the similarity of the MPF (Madhesi People's forum) and the Maoists.

THIS IS BASELESS.... Maoists are a rebel force aiming (or sadly once aimed) to bring about a complete change in Nepali politics. This MPF is a opportunist Racist insurgent fuckin lot.

The Maoists still, it seems, have great leftist inclinations and I hope they still continue to be as radical as they once were..... this is needed!!! We want our next leader to be a Hugo Chavez, an Evo Morales.

IF this Maoists turn out to be like those bloody capitalists then, Nepal is doomed for. Nepal needs a bit of Leftist change cause that is evolution.....

OneBrickOneVoice

31st March 2007, 16:31

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 03:14 pm
This MPF is a opportunist Racist insurgent fuckin lot.
welcome comrade,

could you expand on this statement? I don't know much about them and neither do most in this forum. Glad to see another pro-CPN-M member on this forum.

Spirit of Spartacus

31st March 2007, 23:32

Spirit of Spartacus

31st March 2007, 23:36

@ Severian

You seem almost too willing to attack the CPN-M.
I really don't understand this tendency.

The fact is that while I'm disappointed with the portfolios that have been handed over to the CPN-M at the moment, it must be noted that this is merely a stepping stone towards convening a proper Constituent Assembly.

I suggest that you wait until such time before you draw conclusions on where the CPN-M is heading and what the future of the peasant movement will be.

Cheung Mo

1st April 2007, 01:20

Expect the bourgeois government to persecute homosexuals and sell out the people's interests to foreign cappies.

blazeofglory

1st April 2007, 03:24

LeftyHenry, Spirit of Spartacus

First of all, I thank u so much for this great WELCOME (I had not expected). As I

said earlier, I regularly view this forum and now I am planning to include my views

as well. AND YES, I AM A PERSON WITH COMPLETE LEFT INCLINATIONS

NOW something about the MPF...

THE MADHESI PEOPLE'S FORUM (MPF)

MADHESI = people residing in the Terai region bordering India.

PAHADI = people residing in the Hills and the capital

Now the MADHESI people (of MPF) claim that they dont have equal representation in the parliament and in all politics. They claim that they are MISTREATED and are not given a chance to go into mainstream politics as much as they should deserve. THey also claim that the PAHADI people have racially bullied them. They should fight for their rights.

Now, THIS IS NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF LIES..

Yes, I am OK with the Madhesi people rallying and asking for more rights (if they didn't have them) but they are using the wrong cause. It is them who are bullying and are the biggest RACISTS. They, in the recent month, killed, burned and raped girls of their own region especially those politically affiliated with the maoists. Now this proves that they are not for a good intention but made only for a political purpose. They hire killers from India as well. Recently they killed 26 Maoist Cadres who were MADHESIS themselves...

THE MPF has CONTINUOSLY BEEN INVOLVED IN CASES OF BRUTALITY, LOOTING, KILLING, BURNING, RAPING etc. THEY SHOULD ALL BE PUT BEHIND BARS THE BLOODY CRIMINALS.

This MPF has been creating a turmoil in Nepal.

I respect the CPN (M) because they are a rebel force and have indeed brought a series of political consciousness amongst the Nepalese people.

And, spirit of spartacus,
well since, I am a leftist, I would prefer the DICTATORSHIP of the PROLETARIAT, YES INDEED....

and in the present context, atleast a SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT IS A MUST

I'll post more later. And, I'll be more active in this forum. I am also creating a website on CHE which I plan to make one of the biggest database over the net. SO REVOLUTIONARY LEFT has become a great help.

I wud like to know more about this forum and who started it. anybody can help?

Severian

1st April 2007, 05:31

Originally posted by Spirit of Spartacus+March 31, 2007 04:36 pm--> (Spirit of Spartacus @ March 31, 2007 04:36 pm) You seem almost too willing to attack the CPN-M.
I really don't understand this tendency. [/b]
It's called communism. Also materialism, aka basing one's analysis on facts.

I find the Nepal situation interesting in part because of the dynamic of mass political participation emerging from the April 2006 uprising. It's a remarkable example of what the masses can, and can't, accomplish despite the total worthlessness of every organized political force in the country.

Frankly, the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) might be the least of what I'd post about in this situation, except most of the other people interested in Nepal on this board are incredibly rigid fans of the CPN(M).

Also, contrary to LHenry's idiotic assumptions, the party I support has paid little attention to Nepal. So it's an interesting opportunity for me to work up my own analysis without being much influenced by anyone else's, then check that analysis against events. So far I've been calling events pretty well, and much better than any fan of the CPN(M).

The fact is that while I'm disappointed with the portfolios that have been handed over to the CPN-M at the moment,

Heh. Of course, from a revolutionary standpoint it wouldn't matter what ministries they got; the capitalist state would remain intact.

But it has to be said: even from your reformist standpoint they've failed. Becoming defense minister is a long way from the revolutionary smashing and replacement of the bourgeois army - but they didn't even manage to do that.

It's interesting to note that even the thoroughly social-democratic CPN(UML) is not trusted (by the Nepali capitalist class) with Defense, Home Ministry, etc.

it must be noted that this is merely a stepping stone towards convening a proper Constituent Assembly. I suggest that you wait until such time before you draw conclusions on where the CPN-M is heading and what the future of the peasant movement will be.

You might as well suggest that I wait until the next elections to see if the British Labour Party will suddenly become revolutionary. Or if you're merely suggesting they might become a major force as a reformist party - conceivable, but opinion polls suggest it's unlikely. (http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2006/nov/nov01/news05.php)

With every month that passes the CPN(M) becomes less relevant. It has proven unable to lead any significant mass mobilization - its main means of protesting events that displease it, is for its former combatants to temporarily leave the camps.

This is a pretty empty threat as nobody believes they'd be foolish enough to relaunch the civil war. As proof of their lack of leverage: their sorry allocation of ministries.

blazeofglory
Now the MADHESI people (of MPF) claim that they dont have equal representation in the parliament and in all politics. They claim that they are MISTREATED and are not given a chance to go into mainstream politics as much as they should deserve. THey also claim that the PAHADI people have racially bullied them. They should fight for their rights.

Now, THIS IS NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF LIES..

Well, thank you for that chauvinist diatribe. That's the typical language of a privileged group trying to hang on to their privileges, any Rush Limbaugh-type "angry white male" in the U.S. could give a similar speech about how there is no racist discrimination here anymore.

And of course any Black person who continues to fight against racist discrimination...is labelled a racist.

Some facts about the Madheshi population and the Terai region where they live. (http://madheshee.blogspot.com/2006/03/social-inclusion-of-madheshi-community_22.html)
Worst poverty prevails in the Tarai districts. About 45% of the 20 Tarai districts have worst poverty rankings and only 25% are ranked as ‘best’ compared to 35% districts in hills and mountains are ranked as ‘best’ and 29% are ranked as ‘worst’.
.....
About 90% of the Tarai districts have a large number of educationally deprived populations compared to only about 13% in hills and mountain districts
....
There is disparity in per capita budget allocation between Tarai and hill districts; 10 out of the 20 Tarai districts have ‘worst’ index values compared to about 17% of the hill districts.
....
Government and political organisations have been advocating and focusing poverty reduction programme mostly in the hills and mountains, and they have been advocating the donors that only the hills and mountains have large number of poor people. It appears that the politicians, policy makers, decision makers and national planners who are mostly of hill origin ignored the socio-economic development issues of Madhesh and the Madheshi community.
.....
The average population per constituency is considerably higher in Tarai districts (127,414) than in the mountain (73,026) and 109,081 in the hill districts (Table 9). This reduces the number of parliamentarians representing Tarai region where about 96% of the country’s total Madheshi people live while increases their number from hills and mountains where 82% of the country’s total Pahadi people live.
.....
Three castes/ethnic groups namely Brahmins, Chhetri and Newars have dominated the civil service in the country. In 1991 these three castes constituted 36% of total population in Nepal but occupied 89.2 percent of position in civil service, while Madheshi community accounted for 32% of population but occupied only 8.4% of position in civil service.
....
Just over 8% of the total judges in the country are from Madheshi community, while the rest 92% are from Pahadi community.

I could go on quoting, but enough. Chauvinists will never admit the existence of oppression; they just don't have the right frame of reference.

So inevitably, after the fall of the absolute-monarchy regime due to mass action, many layers of Nepal's long-oppressed population will enter politics for the first time. And inevitably, this will take many forms, including demands for equality, autonomy, and potentially also separation by Nepal's many oppressed nationalities.

So what is the response of the CPN(M) to this? To proclaim this response by oppressed people is nothing but a royalist plot, and try to drive the oppressed back out of politics! To propose the violent suppression of the protests by the bourgeois state, with or without the help of the "People's Liberation Army." Blazeofglory is pretty faithfully repeating the statements of Prachanda and others along these lines.

Which helps confirm yet again that the "People's War" was not based on the independent, conscious, and voluntary participation of working people on politics, and had nothing to do with the self-liberation of the working class. Instead, it was based on coercion and intimidation against working people. Naturally, this kind of thing is most successful in an economically very underdeveloped, isolated, and semifeudal context, where many people are not yet conscious participants in politics. So naturally, the CPN(M) is threatened by the sheer messiness and uncontrolled nature of authentic emergence of Nepali working people into politics.

Now that assessment of the Madheshi people's situation and demands doesn't answer another question: as to the nature of the organizations claiming to lead them. Including the Madheshi People's Rights Forum, which seems to have emerged as the main organization capable of calling the biggest protests. I'm certainly not here to defend that organization's leadership.

THE MPF has CONTINUOSLY BEEN INVOLVED IN CASES OF BRUTALITY, LOOTING, KILLING, BURNING, RAPING etc. THEY SHOULD ALL BE PUT BEHIND BARS THE BLOODY CRIMINALS.

Yes, that's what I said, their methods resemble the CPN(Maoist)'s. C'mon, even the CPN(M)'s leaders have admitted their "mistakes", why are you still denying it?

And why not comment on the relationship between the MPRF and the Madheshi splitoffs from the CPN(Maoist)?

By all accounts the Maoists began the fighting between the MPRF and CPN(M) (http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?nid=101627) Even in the heinous Gaur massacre perpetrated by the MPRF, it's admitted the CPN(M) sought a confrontation by attempting to hold a rally in the same time and place as an organization it's been fighting with.

I repeat, I'm not here to defend the MPRF's leadership. But to holler and yell about their side of this gang-fight, while defending the CPN(M)'s side about it...is purest hypocrisy.

Louis Pio

1st April 2007, 16:10

yeah what a shame, welfare is under the maoists control as well as works, and woman's rights and local development. The maoists will only be able to create a extensive welfare program, give woman equal rights, develop public works in a socialist manner and etc..

I don't hope you are actually saying that all these things can be won with on a bourgious basis. If so you should drop any pretence to Marx and Lenin. Every proposal on stuff like this will of course be voted down by bourgious politicians, it's not like Nepal is in the same situation as the Western European countries after WW2 were the capitalists could afford to give concessions.

blazeofglory

1st April 2007, 16:15

Well, thank you for that chauvinist diatribe. That's the typical language of a privileged group trying to hang on to their privileges, any Rush Limbaugh-type "angry white male" in the U.S. could give a similar speech about how there is no racist discrimination here anymore.

And of course any Black person who continues to fight against racist discrimination...is labelled a racist.

Some facts about the Madheshi population and the Terai region where they live. (http://madheshee.blogspot.com/2006/03/social-inclusion-of-madheshi-community_22.html)
Worst poverty prevails in the Tarai districts. About 45% of the 20 Tarai districts have worst poverty rankings and only 25% are ranked as ‘best’ compared to 35% districts in hills and mountains are ranked as ‘best’ and 29% are ranked as ‘worst’.
.....
About 90% of the Tarai districts have a large number of educationally deprived populations compared to only about 13% in hills and mountain districts
....
There is disparity in per capita budget allocation between Tarai and hill districts; 10 out of the 20 Tarai districts have ‘worst’ index values compared to about 17% of the hill districts.
....
Government and political organisations have been advocating and focusing poverty reduction programme mostly in the hills and mountains, and they have been advocating the donors that only the hills and mountains have large number of poor people. It appears that the politicians, policy makers, decision makers and national planners who are mostly of hill origin ignored the socio-economic development issues of Madhesh and the Madheshi community.
.....
The average population per constituency is considerably higher in Tarai districts (127,414) than in the mountain (73,026) and 109,081 in the hill districts (Table 9). This reduces the number of parliamentarians representing Tarai region where about 96% of the country’s total Madheshi people live while increases their number from hills and mountains where 82% of the country’s total Pahadi people live.
.....
Three castes/ethnic groups namely Brahmins, Chhetri and Newars have dominated the civil service in the country. In 1991 these three castes constituted 36% of total population in Nepal but occupied 89.2 percent of position in civil service, while Madheshi community accounted for 32% of population but occupied only 8.4% of position in civil service.
....
Just over 8% of the total judges in the country are from Madheshi community, while the rest 92% are from Pahadi community.

Now thank u for your data.

Let me summarize on this.
NOW yes, they had a comparatively low (infact very low in some cases) representation in the parliament and the judiciary.

But what I dont seem to go along with is u marking me a "chauvinist". Now I am not taking the side of the PAHADIS. I am neither going against the Madhesis. I am only against the MPF (a.k.a. MJF)

This organisation has proved not to be interested in the welfare of fellow-madhesis.

I have read another data (like the one u have posted) about the Madhesis 'discriminated' and yes I agree to the cause.
I support their fight but things aren't going as should be.

Yes, that's what I said, their methods resemble the CPN(Maoist)'s. C'mon, even the CPN(M)'s leaders have admitted their "mistakes", why are you still denying it?

And why not comment on the relationship between the MPRF and the Madheshi splitoffs from the CPN(Maoist)?

Now the difference between the CPN (M) and MPF is:

CPN (M) was a rebel force
MPRF claims to be part of the constitution and claims to agree to the ongoing peace process

Now, all we can do is wait and see what happens with the Maoists and how they deal.....

Nothing Human Is Alien

1st April 2007, 21:27

KATMANDU, Nepal - Six former communist rebels were sworn in Sunday as part of Nepal's interim government, a major step in a peace process that ended their decade-long insurgency.

The Maoist leaders pledged to ensure development in the impoverished Himalayan nation and hold credible elections in June.

"This day marks the beginning of a new Nepal," said the top rebel leader, Pushpa Kamal Dahal, who goes by the name Prachanda. "Our next goal is to provide some immediate relief to the people and then turn toward long-term development of the country."

Prachanda said the rebels' main focus would be the upcoming elections for a special assembly that will rewrite the constitution and decide whether Nepal will continue as a constitutional monarchy. The Maoists had fought for 10 years to replace Nepal's monarchy with a republic.

More than 13,000 people were killed before a cease-fire was declared in April 2006, following weeks of pro-democracy protests that forced King Gyanendra to give up sole political power and restore the disbanded parliament.

On Sunday, the six former insurgents took an oath of office in a ceremony broadcast on national television, along with 16 other ministers and junior ministers. Five former rebels were appointed ministers, while a sixth was given a junior minister position in the new government to be headed by Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala. Prachanda was not among those appointed.

The former insurgents have been given a number of powerful positions, including rebel spokesman Krishna Bahadur Mahara, who became minister for information and communication; and longtime militant Dev Gurung, who is the new minister for local development.

"This is the beginning of a new chapter in Nepal's history. I urge all to leave behind all minor differences and move forward together to get to our goals," said Koirala, who was re-elected prime minister for the sixth time earlier Sunday.

"The government will be fully devoted to establishing peace and security in the country."

The interim government was welcomed by the international community, which has pressed Nepal's politicians to hold elections on time and restore peace and security.

"As a partner in the Interim Government, the Maoists must now be held fully accountable for their actions. They must meet their commitments and at last join the mainstream as a nonviolent political party," said a statement from the U.S. Embassy in Nepal.

The
European Union, in a statement, called on the government to "to move the peace process further forward by preparing vigorously for timely elections."

The inclusion of the former rebels is part of a peace process that began when the Maoists signed an accord in November. The Maoists have since locked up their weapons, confined their fighters to U.N.-monitored camps and joined the parliament.

Severian

2nd April 2007, 00:47

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 09:15 am
But what I dont seem to go along with is u marking me a "chauvinist". Now I am not taking the side of the PAHADIS. I am neither going against the Madhesis. I am only against the MPF (a.k.a. MJF)

This organisation has proved not to be interested in the welfare of fellow-madhesis.

I have read another data (like the one u have posted) about the Madhesis 'discriminated' and yes I agree to the cause.
That's not what you said before. You clearly said there was no discrimination against Madheshis.

You posted:

Now the MADHESI people (of MPF) claim that they dont have equal representation in the parliament and in all politics. They claim that they are MISTREATED and are not given a chance to go into mainstream politics as much as they should deserve. THey also claim that the PAHADI people have racially bullied them. They should fight for their rights.

Now, THIS IS NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF LIES..

Which is clearly opposing not just the MPRF leadership, but anyone who demands equal rights for Madheshis.

Now you claim:

Now the difference between the CPN (M) and MPF is:

CPN (M) was a rebel force
MPRF claims to be part of the constitution and claims to agree to the ongoing peace process

Yeah, was. So what? That's the past, and why is being a rebel automatically good? The Confederate States of America were also rebels.

You're still dodging my question about the JTMM splitoffs from the CPN(M). Do you not know about them?

****

Thanks for the article, CdeL. Yeah, the interim government was sworn in today, and the division of ministries seems to be the same as reported yesterday.

OneBrickOneVoice

2nd April 2007, 01:21

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 03:10 pm

yeah what a shame, welfare is under the maoists control as well as works, and woman's rights and local development. The maoists will only be able to create a extensive welfare program, give woman equal rights, develop public works in a socialist manner and etc..

I don't hope you are actually saying that all these things can be won with on a bourgious basis. If so you should drop any pretence to Marx and Lenin. Every proposal on stuff like this will of course be voted down by bourgious politicians, it's not like Nepal is in the same situation as the Western European countries after WW2 were the capitalists could afford to give concessions.
The CPN-M and other leftist and communist parties will make a majority. Besides, even non-socialist forces unite on the anti-monarchist and anti-fuedal positions. It's the New Democratic Stage.

Severian, those fact come from a blog so are questionable in content. Also, that mainly deals with poverty which could just be because of the more mountainous area they are in.

Yeah, was. So what? That's the past, and why is being a rebel automatically good? The Confederate States of America were also rebels.

its pretty sick that you compare the two considering that the CPN-M fought a New Democratic Revolution and the CSA were bourgeois racists.

the CPN (M)'s struggle has brought an end to the absolute monarchy and replaced it with a New Democratic government which will erase fuedalism.

I don't see how street clashes which have in the past been done by posers and when they have been done by CPN-M members against CPN-M line, very public statements against them that claim the CPN-M will punish those who engaged in these acts, make the CPN-M not communist and justify your counterrevolutionary comments

blazeofglory

2nd April 2007, 16:15

Thank u lefty henry for supporting me.

Let me make this clear to u all...

Well, in political affairs, yes the MADHESIS were in a way discriminated. Not that it required any violence but it has already been adressed in the parliament and all sides have agreed to resolve it.

BUT RACIALLY I CANT BELIEVE THEY ARE DISCRIMINATED. And, THE MPF has gone beyond bounds. Due to the NATIONWIDE AND TERAI SHUTDOWN CAUSED BY THEM SOME WEEKS BACK, THERE IS STILL SHORTAGE OF FUEL and the country faces millions worth of loss.
We understand that it is correct to protest but shutting down the Terai had paralysed the entire country.

NOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE JTMM. Yes it is a splitoff from the Maoists. Their agenda is even more blur but they have quitened down nowadays (not that it indicates anything affirmitive). I too have not personally understood what the splitoff was about because they haven't clearly outlined the cause.

THE JTMM had announced that they still would continue the armed struggle. You never know what they could do next but I dont think they can go any longer.

RNK

2nd April 2007, 20:22

blazeofglory

3rd April 2007, 01:57

I'm really interested to see where this goes. I still support the CPN-M, as I believe they are pursuing the correct path; they saw an opportunity to end bloodshed to take a grab at political power. I'd hope we'd all do the same. If it fails, though, they should definately go "back to work".

SAME HERE....

Lets see. But, in a way there is a great doubt about whether they will win the elections or not. Though people like us wud like to see some "CHANGE" in the government as we have become tired with NC and also with CPN (UML). Why not give CPN (M) a chance to see whether they really can lead Nepal thru a new path to real development.

But, since during the People's war they waged, many people lost lives, parents lost children, families lost bread-earners and wives became widowed etc. so people are angry with them literally.

All we can do is WAIT

Hiero

3rd April 2007, 05:55

Originally posted by Severian+April 01, 2007 03:31 pm--> (Severian @ April 01, 2007 03:31 pm)
Spirit of [email protected] 31, 2007 04:36 pm
You seem almost too willing to attack the CPN-M.
I really don't understand this tendency.
It's called communism. Also materialism, aka basing one's analysis on facts.

[/b]
It is called Trotskyism. You have to wonder what "leftist" ideology that focuses so much of it's energy on two things, selling newspapers, and constant whinging about other communist parties. It is Trotskyism ofcourse, with little experince of being the vangaurd of the revolution, it is all we can expect.

If the Maoist continue peoples war, they are Pol Potist. If the Maoist follow the other parties in Nepal, and sign a total cease fire and join the government then they would be reformist and selling out. If only they would sell more newspapers full of first world "communist" rhetoric then they would truely be revolutionary.

Severian

3rd April 2007, 07:14

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 09:15 am
NOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE JTMM. Yes it is a splitoff from the Maoists.
Yeah, I knew that. The question is, what's their relationship to the MPRF.

If you're going to pop up proclaiming yourself to be from Nepal and say you're going to tell everyone what's going on there, you could at least give one piece of new information.

Well, in political affairs, yes the MADHESIS were in a way discriminated. Not that it required any violence but it has already been adressed in the parliament and all sides have agreed to resolve it.

BUT RACIALLY I CANT BELIEVE THEY ARE DISCRIMINATED.

What the fuck does that mean?

They're politically underrepresented. Naturally this means that they benefit less from state resources. So they're economically worse off also. See earlier stats.

What else do you imagine that discrimination is, anywhere?

And why are you complaining about the MPRF shutting down the country while supporting the Maoists who conducted similar blockades many times?

blazeofglory

3rd April 2007, 16:54

Originally posted by Severian+April 03, 2007 06:14 am--> (Severian @ April 03, 2007 06:14 am)
[email protected] 02, 2007 09:15 am
NOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE JTMM. Yes it is a splitoff from the Maoists.

Well, in political affairs, yes the MADHESIS were in a way discriminated. Not that it required any violence but it has already been adressed in the parliament and all sides have agreed to resolve it.

BUT RACIALLY I CANT BELIEVE THEY ARE DISCRIMINATED.

What the fuck does that mean?

They're politically underrepresented. Naturally this means that they benefit less from state resources. So they're economically worse off also. See earlier stats.

What else do you imagine that discrimination is, anywhere?

And why are you complaining about the MPRF shutting down the country while supporting the Maoists who conducted similar blockades many times? [/b]
Severian,

Now, we are in a generation where INTERNAL news can be easily accesible worldwide. What you read and hear is the same I read and hear. I dont reside in the Terai. Now I have never read of any link between the JTMM but literally, they could have (IM)moral sense of support.

I cant understand if, you claim to know so-much, why are u asking me things that are self-understood.

WHAT IS NEW??? ANYTHING NEW IS EASILY AVAILABLE IN THE WEB AND BECOMES OLD!!! TALK SENSE MAN.

WELL, MIND YOU IT IS NOT ONLY THE MPRF THAT PROTESTED. ATLEAST 2 or 3 MORE groups of various races (called Limbuwan, Kirat etc.) protested for fare and equal representation in the parliament. Nepal is a multilingual, multiethnic nation and it is difficult to justify everything. In the recent Interim govt. I personally noted 3 or 4 racially Madhesis (I dont know if there were more) in the 23 MEMBER ministry.
There were 5 Maoists.

Now since the Gaur incident, (the greatest killing incident since April, 2006 where 23-26 Maoist cadres were killed by MPRF-hired killers), Upendra Mahato (leader of MPRF) has quitened down a bit.

THE MPRF is backed by THE ROYALISTS AND THE KING, THE HINDU EXTREMISTS AND FUNDAMENTALISTS (which justifies India and BJP involvement). Dont support the MPRF even morally. Support the Madhesis but never the MPRF

che_diwas

3rd April 2007, 19:25

My big "FUCK YOU" to all the MPRF supporters.

Fighting against the racism front is a welcome step but you dont rape and kill your own brothers and sisters by hiring well trained criminals from across the border (India).

The leader of the so called MPRF was schedule to speakat the programme organized by them on the day of the mass killings... but he was not present at that momment and till now he has not been seen anywhere in Nepal. He (Upendra Yadav) was once a maoist and was arrested by the Indian authority along with other PBM of the Maoists but was released later while other leaders were transfered to the royal government of Nepal.

I may be living far from Terai and may not provide the exact happenings to you comrades but I have posted an Interview of a human right activists who had gone to the field to see it for himself..

Dr Mathura Shrestha, a prominent human rights activist, visited Gaur a day after the carnage, in which 29 persons died.

Q: How do you recount the gory incident of Gaur after your recent visit?

Dr Mathura Shrestha: Madhesi People's Rights Forum (MPRF) had made an announcement through mikes five days ago for holding a public meeting in Gaur at 11 am on last Wednesday. The Madhesi Mukti Morcha (MMM) set up the stage for the carnage after it, too, decided to hold the public meeting on the same ground at the same time on the same day.

The locals feared something. As a result, president Deo Padayar Gupta of the Federation of Nepalese Chambers of Commerce and Industry, Rautahat branch, invited the MPRF and MMM cadres to attend a meeting on Wednesday morning at around 8:00 am.
But none of them attended the meeting. At around 10 am, rallies of both the parties began. Some of the participants of the rallies had come from the adjoining VDCs. Both parties’ rallies met near the district court. The participants of the rallies waved, clapped their hands and welcomed each other's rally, showing an understanding on the holding of Wednesday's public meeting. The locals took this incident as a good gesture that MPRF would hold its meeting first, and then MMM would do so, on the same ground but at different times. Then, the Maoist rally passed through Gaur, while MPRF's rally converted into a public meeting at the Rice Mill ground.

The ground is near the district court. First, the MPRF cadres dismantled the MMM’s stage built for the public meeting. A few MMM cadres present there were beaten up. These MMM cadres left the ground to inform their leaders about the incident. Chairing MPRF's meeting was Ram Prasad Biswas. No sooner did Biswas took his chair as the chief guest, than the MMM cadres entered the field and began to disrupt MPRF's meeting. Then, from the southern and western sides, some people fired shots at the MMM cadres. Later, some MPRF cadres fired at the MMM cadres from the stage.

According to eyewitnesses, the MPRF cadres used socket bombs and small firearms, besides sharp weapons and cleft bamboo sticks. I think MPRF had hired notorious higher killers.

Q: How can you claim so when you were not present there?

Dr Shrestha: Within two minutes, over a dozen MMM cadres were killed (on the spot). Then, the MPRF-hired professional killers chased the MMM cadres. Some of the MMM cadres, not acquainted with Gaur, entered the nearby houses for safety. They were dragged out and killed. Some of the MMM cadres were chased as far as eight kilometers and killed. Some of the dead bodies were buried in a water canal.

I was told by eyewitnesses that eight of the killers were local Nepalis and 25 others were Indians. The three locals are Balru, Hafij Mukhiya and Binda Hasin Sahani. The eyewitnesses recounted that “the police force could do nothing”. But local police contradicted this statement saying that “they blank-fired to stop the killings”. Some local people even claimed that Upendra Yadav was staying at the house next to Dr Tayab and the superintendent of police escorted him up to Barganiya near the Nepal-India border.
What was heinous was that five of the women were raped in public. Two people caught their legs and other MPRF cadres raped them in public. Later their breasts were chopped off and burnt to deface their identity. Gagan Singh, Bhusan Singh, Baban and Guddu Jha were involved in raping and chopping-off-activities. Two local Muslim girls were taken away and their whereabouts are still unknown.

Q: Are these rapists local or Indian criminals?

Dr Shrestha: They should be local people because the local residents knew them well and everyone could pronounce their names clearly. Twelve of the MMM cadres were killed at Hajmonia, some 12 kilometers away from Gaur. They included three women and nine men.

Q: According to your assessment, what was the police force doing at that time?

Dr Shrestha: Police could do nothing when government offices were set on fire by the MPRF cadres some weeks ago. The police force has been unable to wipe the sign boards written Madesh Sarkar in government offices. What can you expect from them?

Secondly, you must understand that King Gynendra conducted municipality polls. All the political parties boycotted the polls except Kamal Thapa's. And you must have learnt that the highest turn out in the country was at Gaur - almost 72 percent of the voters cast their votes in Gaur municipality polls. And Kamal Thapa's candidate got 92 percent of the votes polled. Now you can think of the situation there. Recently, all the government offices have been set on fire. By whom?

A girl of late 20s raised a question. She asked me, “Dr Sahab, is political change meant for criminals or the people?” I was shocked to hear such a question from a girl who I think was forced to leave her studies. Then, I asked a few more questions. Her response was: “there is none who supports MPRF at Gaur and I do not know other places. But whatever MPRF wants, it happens here. We can do nothing in the presence of MPRF because of criminalization of politics, culture and religion”.

Until the restoration of democracy 1990, there had been a mafia group operating in Gaur. This mafia used to smuggle hashish, gold and idols, and traffic women. But the restoration of democracy led to an emergence of another mafia group. This group killed the leader of the Panchayat mafia in Janakpur. The locals say that the democratic parties have given this mafia group a political protection. Whenever they are arrested, the parties ask the police force to release them. The NC, UML and other political cadres feed and pay them. During the early 1990s, there had been clashes between these two mafia groups. Today, they have joined their hands and the dacoits across the border have also been working in tandem with these two mafia groups.

So, it looks that these groups have been very active in Gaur and its adjoining districts. The locals say that MPRF is a mere mask. These two mafia groups are active in the name of MPRF. Even human rights activists cannot release any report on these mafia leaders as they threaten to kill them.

Q: How could these mafias be hired by MPRF to the extent of butchering so many MMM cadres?

Dr Shrestha: MPRF hired professional killers. They paid them money. Eight of them were Nepali criminals and over 25 were Indian professional killers. I am talking about only those who fired gunshots. Today, the cost to hire the professional killer groups comes to 15 million rupees.

These killers are used during the elections in Bihar and Uttar Pradesh states also. You do not have to campaign if you pay 15 million rupees to these professional killers. You win the elections. I was shocked to hear such stories from a girl who was forced to leave her studies by these local mafias.

I was further told that a girl cannot get married to a man of her or her family's choice in Gaur. These mafias come and ask the girl to get married to their choice. If she refuses, she is threatened to be taken to a nearby mango tree and raped to be left a prostitute. Such incidents are common in Gaur. These mafias have been very active since King Gyanendra's regime conducted municipal elections. Now they are being used by MPRF.
These are the tips of the iceberg. In fact Gaur is ruled by criminals and the SPA government, until recently, considered them its allies. Apart from eight Nepalis and 25 Indian professional killers, some MPRF cadres hit with cleft bamboo sticks. Each MMM cadre killed and injured had deep cuts in their heads. You see a cleft bamboo stick is as sharp as khukuri. And you can't survive if you are hit with a cleft bamboo stick on your head. They used other sharp weapons too. All the hospitalized had head injuries. One MMM cadre, who left the hospital after a doctor advised her to leave, was later caught and hit by a cleft bamboo stick. Now that girl is on her death bed. I was shocked to learn that MPRF hired professional killers to kill unarmed MMM cadres.

Q: Whom do you blame for the carnage?

Dr Shrestha: What I have been advocating for the past several months is that we should not have opposed MPRF-organized protest programs. The main reason that let the Maoists oppose the MPRF organized protest movement is that the SPA gave up its stance on addressing the Madhesi problems. First, the SPA gave up its stance on federalism in the interim constitution. Second, it gave up its stance on proportional representation. Third, it raised the issue of public opinion and later it gave it up. All this disappointed the Madhesis and other ethnic groups in the hill and mountain.

Now we must realize that democracy did generate hope but doubts are undermining our hope for democracy. I see this is the emergence of people's resentment. It is there in Madhes, hill and mountain. The movement in Madhes was not started by MPRF but by Nepal Sadhbhawana Party (Anandi Devi). MPRF shot into the fame only.

I agree there are politicians in MPRF. I met Upendra Yadav personally and informed him of SPA's stance on the demands. I advised him to give up the political demands since the SPA government was preparing to address his demands. Secondly, I told him to use peace as a weapon to raise the demands. His response was “we have been put behind bars, now all our cadres are out of our control”, adding that “it will be a peaceful movement.” He had assured me that he would even hold talks with the janjati groups, which he did not do so. Let us not talk of him now. He is not the right kind of politician. He was just a village level leader though he may claim himself a national leader.

Second, the primary concern is that the second revolt (April uprising, even if you call it a people's movement) brought the eight parties into a single platform. If these leaders of eight parties continue with leg-pulling politics, then the Gaur carnage is the beginning. These leaders take decisions but fail to implement them. What is the reason behind the failure to implement or delay in implementing and blaming one another? This is not the way of playing politics.

Q: But the SPA continues to insist on arms registration before the formation of eight-party government. Isn't it?

Dr Shrestha: Arms registration is not a big deal, nor is it the problem. The Nepali Congress did raise arms against the establishment, not once but twice. If we add the incident of Okhaldhunga, it raised arms thrice. When the NC reached an agreement with the then government, it did not surrender all the weapons; so did the Marxists after the Jhapa killing. The Marxist and NC did not surrender all the weapons they had in their possession.

So, history clearly tells us that registration of weapons is not the primary concern. The Maoists have agreed to join mainstream politics. Why can't the SPA be accommodative now? The Gaur carnage is an outcome of Maoist pride and the anarchy let loose in the country. There are several counter-Maoist groups unleashing anarchy. Unless the eight parties come together and build trust among themselves, the country will continue to reel under violence.

blazeofglory

4th April 2007, 02:44

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 06:25 pm
My big "FUCK YOU" to all the MPRF supporters.

Fighting against the racism front is a welcome step but you dont rape and kill your own brothers and sisters by hiring well trained criminals from across the border (India).

The leader of the so called MPRF was schedule to speakat the programme organized by them on the day of the mass killings... but he was not present at that momment and till now he has not been seen anywhere in Nepal. He (Upendra Yadav) was once a maoist and was arrested by the Indian authority along with other PBM of the Maoists but was released later while other leaders were transfered to the royal government of Nepal.

I may be living far from Terai and may not provide the exact happenings to you comrades but I have posted an Interview of a human right activists who had gone to the field to see it for himself..

Hi Diwas bro

SO NICE TO HEAR FROM YOU..... well, yeah That was the message I was trying to give..... but people here seem to LIKE this MPRF thing, you know.

I read that interview and well, it does give the message to people here who like them....

Well I too said the same thing, "Support the Madhesis and not the MPRF"

che_diwas

4th April 2007, 17:22

Hi Diwas bro

SO NICE TO HEAR FROM YOU..... well, yeah That was the message I was trying to give..... but people here seem to LIKE this MPRF thing, you know.

I read that interview and well, it does give the message to people here who like them....

Well I too said the same thing, "Support the Madhesis and not the MPRF"

Hey comrade blaze,

And how are you? Are you still busy with your studies? well mail me..

And speaking here (revleft), its very hard cause their are so many diverse knowledge in it.. but you and me are from the homeland of these Madhesis and we know the real picture beside it.. we are united on the saying that the Indians should not be mixedup across the border of Nepal with the Nepali madhesis..
Any true socialist will not for sure go to other people's land and kill and rape the people over there...

And writing here, seems sometimes wayward as these comrades also rely on the burgeois news channels and agencies of Nepal, where the reporter cannot report without the permission of the Boss..

All workingmen and woman in India are our own comrades, so I am very optimistic that the Indian revolutionaries will surely help to keep the indian border safe from the cross border crime.

Louis Pio

5th April 2007, 02:23

The CPN-M and other leftist and communist parties will make a majority. Besides, even non-socialist forces unite on the anti-monarchist and anti-fuedal positions. It's the New Democratic Stage.

Quite interesting.
So your idea is that even though we have global capitalism today the point of Nepal must be to build a socalled nationaldemocratic state? I have to admit that I think you will be extremely unlucky in finding those people. Today capitalism is global and the crowd from Kathmandu ain't different. Then again I have to admit I really find it funny to see how you can change theory and arguments from day to day, it really shows the theoretical bankruptsy of "stalinism" and "maoism", but then again at least I get a laugh

OneBrickOneVoice

5th April 2007, 04:52

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 01:23 am

The CPN-M and other leftist and communist parties will make a majority. Besides, even non-socialist forces unite on the anti-monarchist and anti-fuedal positions. It's the New Democratic Stage.

Quite interesting.
So your idea is that even though we have global capitalism today the point of Nepal must be to build a socalled nationaldemocratic state? I have to admit that I think you will be extremely unlucky in finding those people. Today capitalism is global and the crowd from Kathmandu ain't different. Then again I have to admit I really find it funny to see how you can change theory and arguments from day to day, it really shows the theoretical bankruptsy of "stalinism" and "maoism", but then again at least I get a laugh
Teis,

you should learn about Mao Tse-tung Thought before commenting on it. And I wouldn't take cheap shots at maoism and "stalinism" since its the ideology that workers, peasants, and revolutionaries all over the world take up and fight for even today. Trotskyism on the otherhand...

Axel1917

5th April 2007, 05:10

Originally posted by LeftyHenry+April 05, 2007 03:52 am--> (LeftyHenry @ April 05, 2007 03:52 am)
[email protected] 05, 2007 01:23 am

The CPN-M and other leftist and communist parties will make a majority. Besides, even non-socialist forces unite on the anti-monarchist and anti-fuedal positions. It's the New Democratic Stage.

Quite interesting.
So your idea is that even though we have global capitalism today the point of Nepal must be to build a socalled nationaldemocratic state? I have to admit that I think you will be extremely unlucky in finding those people. Today capitalism is global and the crowd from Kathmandu ain't different. Then again I have to admit I really find it funny to see how you can change theory and arguments from day to day, it really shows the theoretical bankruptsy of "stalinism" and "maoism", but then again at least I get a laugh
Teis,

you should learn about Mao Tse-tung Thought before commenting on it. And I wouldn't take cheap shots at maoism and "stalinism" since its the ideology that workers, peasants, and revolutionaries all over the world take up and fight for even today. Trotskyism on the otherhand... [/b]
Heh. That Stalinist-Menshevik two-stage crap has ruined numerous revolutions. Not to mention that in the absence of a political revolution (I think Cuba is an exception to this, and workers' democracy brought by reform may be possible.) against the Stalinists to bring workers' democracy, the Stalinist bureaucrats will eventually convert themselves into captialists to further consolidate their priveleges when the economy seizes up, given that it will end up becoming too sophisticated for bureaucratic control after a certain period of development.

History has infinitely shown that in backward countries that the bourgeoisie is not capable of playing any kind of progressive role. In addition to that, anything going toward a socialist programme will be known to be against private property, so the "progressive" bourgeoisie will move heaven and hell to destroy the revolution. Making an alliance with the bourgeoisie always has, and always will, lead to defeat. The Maoists in Nepal were in a favorable condition to take power and they squandred it with that two-stage crap.

OneBrickOneVoice

5th April 2007, 05:44

no no actually that was trotsky, who was a major menshevik contributor and jumped on the bolshevik party bandwagon a month or two before the revolution.

2 stage theory isn't menshevik. Most bolsheviks agreed with it. Stalin was just one. And this stage will lead to an end imperialist domincance of Nepal, fuedelism, and the monarchy. Nice to see you all support these things. Keep in mind that if they don't accomplish the above, the Maoists have said time and time over again that they will create a people's republic from the streets through revolution. They now have the key to not only their arms, but also the Royal Army's and have gained access to the city boosting their PLA membership. Have you been in Nepal for the past 10 years fighting revolution? I doubt it, but the CPN-M has and I'm guessing they know the situation far better than a western observer behind a monitor

Vargha Poralli

5th April 2007, 13:25

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 10:14 am
no no actually that was trotsky, who was a major menshevik contributor and jumped on the bolshevik party bandwagon a month or two before the revolution.

Trotsky broke with Mensheviks as early as 1905 when he had been the chair man of Petrograd soviet. Of course it is too much for you to learn anything other than from Stalin school of Falsification.

2 stage theory isn't menshevik.

Yes it is. Lenin had written in detail about it (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/tactics/index.htm). Strange to a self labeled "Leninist" to be unaware of the major difference between Bolshevism and Menshevism.

Most bolsheviks agreed with it. Stalin was just one.

Except Lenin of course. And thanks for clarifying that Lenin has nothing to do with Stalin's brand of Leninism.

And this stage will lead to an end imperialist domincance of Nepal, fuedelism, and the monarchy. Nice to see you all support these things. Keep in mind that if they don't accomplish the above, the Maoists have said time and time over again that they will create a people's republic from the streets through revolution. They now have the key to not only their arms, but also the Royal Army's and have gained access to the city boosting their PLA membership. Have you been in Nepal for the past 10 years fighting revolution? I doubt it, but the CPN-M has and I'm guessing they know the situation far better than a western observer behind a monitor

Everything is right. But CPN(Maoist) has now became a ruling class. From now on we can't expect any workers revolution from them.

But this provide an excellent oppurtunity for Nepali workers to be free from their pseudo socialist influence and build a Mass movement which is free from their idealogy. When that happens what would the Maoists do ? Time will answer that.

OneBrickOneVoice

6th April 2007, 01:52

Lenin made it very clear in state and revolution that communism is a science, something that "evolved out of capitalism" and, to paraphrase him on a quote from Engels, "flourishes in a Democratic Republic" no one is supporting the "democratic" republic or the kerensky government, but it is a stage from which socialist revolution becomes inevitable when headed by the proletariat. Lenin like all communists of course was against the bourgeios republic but recognized it as a stage from which communism would emerge.

And Stalin wasn't a theoretician, he was a leader, and he followed Lenin to the line. Trotsky on the other hand deviated like crazy. Not only was he expelled from the party for deviating from the faction line approved by Lenin, but he regularly called Leninism something that would "self-destruct" and wasn't a bolshevik until late 1917. If you read what I said, I didn't say he was a menshevik in 1917, I said he once was a hardcore menshevik, and so to claim Stalin was a menshevik is pretty damn fucking laughable coming from a trotskyist.

That said, Trotsky did write some very valuable things. Trotsky's speeches were highly influential on Mao. I'm just saying.

Also, how does a party become a class?

Janus

6th April 2007, 01:59

But CPN(Maoist) has now became a ruling class. From now on we can't expect any workers revolution from them.
Right, they've become part of the ruling party/gov. like the CPI(M). Over time, they'll probably follow the same general trends that the CPI(M) went through unless of course something drastic happens.

Tekun

6th April 2007, 03:24

This shit sorta reminds me of the changes and "improvements" that some Central American countries experienced during the early to mid 1990's
After decades of civil war in countries like Guatemala and El Salvador, the URNG and FMLN were allowed to enter mainstream politics with the condition that they give up the armed conflict against the state
They acquiesced, and both the URNG and the FMLN entered the political arena respectively with the intention of "revolutionizing the country" through political means
15 years later both these countries are miserable, poverty ridden markets from where multinational corporations get their cheap labor and products from
Both these parties have failed to truly change and improve their countries
Furthermore, the top leaders of both these parties are among the wealthiest politicians in their respective countries
Once most working class and peasant families looked to these revolutionaries for help and leadership, now most of the population is just as sick of them as they are of right wing politicos
Its a fucking disgrace
And that's what I believe will go down in Nepal
The leaders will enter politics, forget about the ideals of revolution, and sell themselves out for a fat paycheck and a seat in parliament
I've seen this movie many times....

combat

6th April 2007, 03:33

Left Henry please grow up. You are writing non sense. Maoism is simply nationalism painted in red and the CPN was never a marxist party. Now it has revealed its rue face.

Vargha Poralli

6th April 2007, 13:24

Originally posted by LeftyHenry
Also, how does a party become a class?

I should have made it clear. Some Members of the party became the part of the ruling class. There can be no any pro-workers action from them. As Janus said this clearly parallels the path of CPI and CPI(M).

Severian

7th April 2007, 09:32

Originally posted by blazeofglory+April 03, 2007 09:54 am--> (blazeofglory @ April 03, 2007 09:54 am) THE MPRF is backed by THE ROYALISTS AND THE KING, THE HINDU EXTREMISTS AND FUNDAMENTALISTS (which justifies India and BJP involvement). [/b]
Evidence for this conspiracy theory?

Originally posted by blazeofglory+--> (blazeofglory)Now, we are in a generation where INTERNAL news can be easily accesible worldwide. What you read and hear is the same I read and hear.[/b]

If you don't have any information the rest of us don't, why did you make such a big deal about being from Nepal?

[email protected]
no one is supporting the "democratic" republic or the kerensky government

Except, of course, for the CPN(M), which is part of the Interim Government. Exactly as the Mensheviks and SRs joined the Provisional Government.

Prachanda has gone further by calling on the bourgeois state to ban the MPRF. Obviously, for the bourgeois state to ban a political organization sets a repressive precedent which can be used against others. So right there the CPN(M) has taken a stand well to the right of the reformist and liberal parties.

I've said before that for the reactionary CPN(M) it would be an improvement to become reformist. This is a good example of why.

che diwas
from the interview[/url]
Dr Mathura Shrestha: Madhesi People's Rights Forum (MPRF) had made an announcement through mikes five days ago for holding a public meeting in Gaur at 11 am on last Wednesday. The Madhesi Mukti Morcha (MMM) set up the stage for the carnage after it, too, decided to hold the public meeting on the same ground at the same time on the same day.

The MMM is a front for the CPN(M). So right there this guy admits the CPN(M) set out to have a confrontation by calling a rally at the time and place the MPRF had previously chosen to have a rally. This after numerous armed clashes between the two, the earlier ones reportedly beginning by attacks on the MPRF by the CPN(M). Obviously when you do this you have to expect combat - they just didn't expect to lose.

News reports on this clash have indicated killed and injured on both sides, though mostly on the CPN(M)'s side.

According to eyewitnesses, the MPRF cadres used socket bombs and small firearms, besides sharp weapons and cleft bamboo sticks. I think MPRF had hired notorious higher killers.

His opinion on the last may be accurate or inaccurate - he doesn't really support it by anything definite. But lemme point out the "socket bombs" were a typical CPN(M) weapon.

And reportedly:
A well-placed local source claimed that the Maoists had planned to kidnap Forum chairman Upendra Yadav when he attended the meeting in Gaur, but the plot was discovered and a counter-attack was coordinated by the two factions of JTMM, along with the Terai Cobras. There is no hard evidence to back up this theory, but a deputy commander of one of the JTMM factions did claim responsibility for the bloodshed later that day.
Source (http://www.worldpoliticswatch.com/article.aspx?id=667)

The JTMM split off from the CPN(M) in order to create a Madheshi organization, claiming there was discrimination against Madheshis within the CPN(M). They've had armed clashes with the CPN(M) before. So it wouldn't be surprising that they'd side with the MPRF in a clash with the CPN(M). And of course they'd have socket bombs, small arms, and other typical Nepali Maoist weapons.

So all in all a more credible explanation than unsupported conspiracy theories about Indian gangsters.

Dr Shrestha: What I have been advocating for the past several months is that we should not have opposed MPRF-organized protest programs. The main reason that let the Maoists oppose the MPRF organized protest movement is that the SPA gave up its stance on addressing the Madhesi problems. First, the SPA gave up its stance on federalism in the interim constitution. Second, it gave up its stance on proportional representation. Third, it raised the issue of public opinion and later it gave it up. All this disappointed the Madhesis and other ethnic groups in the hill and mountain.

Now we must realize that democracy did generate hope but doubts are undermining our hope for democracy. I see this is the emergence of people's resentment. It is there in Madhes, hill and mountain. The movement in Madhes was not started by MPRF but by Nepal Sadhbhawana Party (Anandi Devi). MPRF shot into the fame only.....The Gaur carnage is an outcome of Maoist pride and the anarchy let loose in the country.

Would you agree with that, Che Diwas and blazeofglory?

RNK

7th April 2007, 11:07

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 02:33 am
Left Henry please grow up. You are writing non sense. Maoism is simply nationalism painted in red and the CPN was never a marxist party. Now it has revealed its rue face.
And you have elephant ears and a purple nose 3 feet long.

Just because I say it doesn't mean it's true. CPN(M) comrades fought, bled and died for a decade while armchair socialists like you pick your noses and criticize every move they make from the comfort of your posh western homes. Maoists like them are out there dying, and the best you can do is hand out papers and leaflets and call yourself "revolutionary".

But lemme point out the "socket bombs" were a typical CPN(M) weapon.

I didn't realize you'd stoop so low as to make low-handed implied allegations against revolutionaries you don't agree with.

The MMM is a front for the CPN(M). So right there this guy admits the CPN(M) set out to have a confrontation by calling a rally at the time and place the MPRF had previously chosen to have a rally.

Wow. First, the MMM is affiliated with the CPN(M). Then the MMM is a front for the CPN(M). Then they become one and the same?

Obviously when you do this you have to expect combat - they just didn't expect to lose.

Here's some tidbits you didn't seem to copy & paste from that article:

Reports differ as to how the violence was sparked. Some say people who appeared to come from the Forum side of the field set fire to the Maoist's stage. Other accounts say that Maoists disrupted the Forum meeting. Shots were fired and the small group of Maoists was set upon by people wielding bamboo sticks split lengthwise to create surprisingly sharp-edged swords.

Within a few minutes, several people were killed on the field, while others who sought shelter in nearby houses were dragged out and hacked to death. A dozen Maoists were chased for more than 5 kilometers before being caught and killed in the village of Hajmonia and dumped in a canal.

"What is heinous is that five of the women were raped in public," said human rights activist Mathur Shresthra, who interviewed witnesses. "Later their breasts were chopped off and [their bodies] burnt to deface their identity."

Glad to see these are the types of people you support, Sev. Actually it's not surprising.

Severian

8th April 2007, 00:57

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 04:07 am
Just because I say it doesn't mean it's true. CPN(M) comrades fought, bled and died for a decade while armchair socialists like you pick your noses and criticize every move they make from the comfort of your posh western homes. Maoists like them are out there dying, and the best you can do is hand out papers and leaflets and call yourself "revolutionary".
If fighting with weapons made anyone a revolutionary then George W. Bush would be the leader of the world revolution.

Glad to see these are the types of people you support, Sev.

Straw man, obviously. I compared them with the CPN(M) and suggested CPN(M) splitoffs had a lot to do with this shootout; how is that supporting them?

Severian

21st April 2007, 07:41

Update: Investigation of Gaur tragedy completed.

The UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights - Nepal has completed its investigation of the tragedy and issued a report blaming the Nepali government, the Communist Party of Nepal(Maoist), and the Madheshi People's Rights Forum.

full text of report (http://www.nepalmonitor.com/2007/04/guar_massacre_was_pr.html)

A highlight:

MPRF supporters (estimates range from 1500 to 4000) arrived in Gaur from the surrounding villages during the morning of the rally, many of them in procession, armed with bhaatas [See note 2.] raised aloft. Children were also present in the procession, some of whom also carried bhaatas. OHCHR’s investigations show that the MPRF were preparing themselves and their supporters for an armed confrontation with the CPN-M cadres, that this time they would be prepared to meet force with force if attacked by the CPN-M.

At the same time, OHCHR has established that at least some of the CPN-M cadres present were armed with slingshots, at least one firearm and socket bomb, as well as detonation equipment, some of which were used on the day. As with the MPRF leadership, even though it was clear that tensions were rising and that there was an expectation of violence, the local CPN-M leadership and representatives of the CPN-M sister organisation Madheshi Rastriya Mukti Morcha made no attempt to reach a compromise that would avoid the expected clash.

While the MPRF supporters congregated on the Rice Mill field and their rally commenced, a CPN-M procession was ongoing in the centre of the town before it was scheduled to proceed to the field. CPN-M cadres had been arriving in Gaur from Chitwan, Makwanpur, Bara and other Central Region areas in the two days prior to 21 March and were staying at local guest houses. The CPN-M procession (of several hundred) was led by Young Communist League (YCL) cadres, a few with backpacks, some carrying sticks or bhaatas. Older supporters, probably local residents, took up the rear of the procession, some of them also carrying sticks.

At around 1.45pm, a group of ten to 15 young males attacked the unattended CPN-M stage. An appeal to stop the destruction of the stage made over the microphone from the MPRF stage was ignored. Although the police stated that they attempted from the edge of the field to prevent the destruction by summoning the young males, this is not supported by any other source. In response to the attack, CPN-M cadres charged across the Rice Mill field from the north-east corner in the direction of the MPRF stage, some of them using slingshots and throwing stones at the retreating MPRF crowd.

During the charge, some shots were also fired and a small number of explosions were heard. It has not been possible to establish who fired the first shots or who was responsible for the explosions. However, information gathered by OHCHR shows that at least one shot was fired in the air by a CPN-M cadre during the initial charge. At the same time, it has been alleged that individuals linked to the MPRF, criminal or other elements in the crowd were also armed and may also have been responsible for firing shots, which subsequently subsided. Police also told OHCHR that they fired numerous shots, which contributed to the confusion. [page 3 ends here]

As the charging CPN-M cadres reached the MPRF stage, the MPRF supporters who had been congregating near their stage left the field by the south-east and south-west access/exit points on either side of the Rice Mill building. CPN-M cadres then began to destroy the vacated MPRF stage. At this point, according to police, the police present behind the Municipality compound to the north-east of the field reported the situation to the District Police Office, but the police did not intervene.

A number of those who had dispersed upon seeing the CPN-M charge then returned to the field. It is at this point that the CPN-M cadres came under violent attack from the MPRF crowd wielding bhaatas. Outnumbered and unable to defend themselves, 27 individuals linked to the CPN-M were killed over the following two hours in the ensuing violence, including four women and a 17-year-old girl. Many more were injured, mostly on the head according to hospital records.

One female and five male CPN-M members were killed immediately on the Rice Mill field itself. Others were killed as they fled away from the field. One woman, whom it is believed sustained injuries in an alleyway adjacent to the field, died in hospital in Gaur a short time later. Another six male CPN-M cadres were also fatally attacked in Gaur itself: one was killed directly in front of the APF HQ where between 30 and 35 personnel were on guard duty and must have seen what was happening; three sustained injuries outside Chandra Guesthouse and died after being taken to hospital; and two died later on their way to Chitwan for medical treatment.

At one location during the time CPN-M cadres were fleeing, one of two non-Madheshi persons, said to belong to the CPN-M, threw a socket bomb into a room occupied by four persons who had refused entry to them. Although the bomb’s ignition mechanism was activated, it did not explode.

An unknown number of CPN-M cadres managed to escape the Municipality and were chased into surrounding villages to the east and north-east of Gaur (see map in Appendix II). Fifteen CPN-M cadres were killed in surrounding villages: eleven in Hajmaniya, one in Sirsiya and three in Laxmipur. In Hajmaniya, eleven cadres (including two women and the 17-year-old girl) were captured by a crowd and, after about 30 minutes in captivity, were brutally executed at the site of a temple by lethal blows to the head from bhaatas, sticks and heavy stone slabs according to witnesses and other evidence. In Sirsiya, a CPN-M cadre tripped and fell while trying to escape a chasing crowd. He was caught by his pursuers and killed at that location by lethal blows to the head from a bhaata. Three others were killed in Laxmipur in as yet unclarified circumstances.

As of 18 April, 26 bodies had been identified, all of them linked to the CPN-M (see Appendix III.) The identity of the 27th body remains unconfirmed. None of those who died were from the town of Gaur itself. Nine were from other parts of Rautahat District, 17 from other Central Region districts. Two CPN-M members reportedly remain unaccounted for.

OHCHR confirmed that one of those killed was a 17-year-old girl who had joined the CPN-M in November 2006. Her death highlights why the inclusion of minors in political activities where violence is possible is not acceptable according to international standards.

According to forensic reports carried out on 25 of the victims in Kathmandu, the cause of death of 24 was one or more fatal blows to the head with an instrument consistent with the weight and contours of a bhaata, the exception being one male who died as a result of multiple shrapnel injuries to the face and head sustained because of a bomb explosion which occurred in circumstances which have not yet been clarified. Several of the victims, both male and female, also had burn injuries, but these were not the cause of death. All the victims sustained multiple injuries to the head and other parts of the body as a result of striking blows from more than one [page 4 ends here] type of instrument. The injuries are reported to be consistent with the use of bamboo bhaatas and lathis and wooden sticks.

Although one individual had a bullet wound, this was reportedly not the cause of death. No deaths as a result of bullet injuries were recorded. In the two remaining cases, the two males who died while being taken to Chitwan, OHCHR visited Makwanpur where they died and where post-mortems were carried out. According to the available information, they also died as a result of head injuries caused by blunt instruments.

There have been a number of allegations that some or all of the five female victims were raped and/or were sexually mutilated before being killed. As indicated above, they died after being attacked in three different locations: one on the Rice Mill field, one just outside the field and three in Hajmaniya village. During its eight initial days in Gaur, during a subsequent visit to Gaur and Hajmaniya in April and in the course of its many interviews there and in Kathmandu, OHCHR did not receive any eye-witness account of rape or sexual mutilation. None of those who made the allegations and who were interviewed by OHCHR were able to provide evidence to support their allegations. OHCHR staff saw two of the women’s bodies, which showed no signs of sexual mutilation. According to the post-mortems, two of the five women had contusions on the breasts as well as on other parts of the body. These injuries were similar to injuries suffered by both male and female victims resulting from the beatings and blows from bhaatas and lathis. At the same time, according to medical experts, there were no external signs of rape on any of the female victims.

OHCHR is concerned that the public dissemination of allegations of rape and sexual mutilation without proper verification is likely to have added to the distress and agony of relatives of the victims.

There have been numerous allegations that the killings in Gaur were pre-meditated and planned. OHCHR has not yet found evidence to substantiate claims that the killings themselves were pre-planned and the individual identities of those responsible or any possible affiliations have yet to be established. Nevertheless, it is clear that many individuals associated with the MPRF rally were armed with bhaatas which, if used, could – and did – have lethal consequences.

There have also been a number of allegations that other armed groups were involved either in planning or carrying out the violence and/or the killings. Some sources allege that MPRF leaders had hired armed men as security personnel, possibly from India. JTMM leader Jwala Singh claimed that there were JTMM members present at the MPRF rally, though he also claimed they were not armed. Other sources also told OHCHR that JTMM members and armed criminal elements were present in or near the rally. The scope of OHCHR’s investigations did not enable it to determine the individual identities of those responsible for the incidents in Gaur. Whether the above groups were indeed present and involved in planning the violence, and whether they were linked to the subsequent killings must be the subject of subsequent state investigations into the incidents. Given the amorphous composition of the MPRF as described above, links with the MPRF cannot, however, be ruled out. [page 5 ends here]

Besides the determination of facts, the report also makes a number of value judgements and recommendations.

I have to disagree with one of those: organizations of oppressed nationalities have the right to defend themselves and their rallies from physical attack by racist gangs. Especially when the cops have repeatedly shown themselves unwilling or unable to do so.

The facts laid out in this report make it clear that the Gaur "massacre" was an act of self-defense. It's as if a civil rights rally was attacked by Klansmen - only the civil rights demonstrators successfully defended themselves. Perhaps somewhat overzealously, even - but that's understandable given the history of violence they've been subjected to.

Joseph Ball

21st April 2007, 20:11

Severian-the MPRF do not just oppose the Maoists they oppose the whole of the 8 party alliance fighting for democracy in Nepal. Their suppossed demands for autonomy are demands the Maoists would meet anyway if they were in power, they are part of the Maoist program.

Quite clearly the interests of national minorities lie in the success of the republican movement. Are they likely to be realised in a reactionary monarchy? Why are the MPRF trying to destabilise a government that is the result of the April movement against the King? Obviously, because the leaders of the movement couldn't give a damn about the rights of national minorities. They are just a front organisation set up by the reactionary Hindu supporters of the Fascist Indian BJP and royalists. This is why the government arrrested leading royalists for the terrorist actions of the MPRF before the Maoists joined the government. See http://www.nepalmountainnews.org/news.php?...t_from=&ucat=5& (http://www.nepalmountainnews.org/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1170127076&archive=&start_from=&ucat=5&)

I don't think there is much hope for Severian but other Trotskyists reading this might want to wonder what you are doing. Here we have what was likely to be an albeit fairly intense brawl turned into a vicious massacre in which youths (who go on violent demonstrations in all countries where such demos happen) and women were beaten to death by reactionaries backed by Fascists and the most backward reactionaries on earth. And a Trotskyist compares the Fascist gang to civil rights demonstrators...

Don't any of you see a pattern here. Why do we see Trotskyists always siding with reactionaries and imperialists. In the UK the Socialist Workers' Party backed the CIA funded 'revolution' that overthrew Milosevic, they supported 'Solidarity' in Poland that led to the current mix of mass unemployment and crypto-Fascist government in that country (try googling the 'League of Polish Families' if you don't believe me or go to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4754079.stm) they also support the western funded MDC in Zimbabwe that collaborates with white settlers who have had their land expropriated by the black people of Zimbabwe and wants to impose IMF austerity measures on an already impoverished country. And oh yes Trotsky himself in the 'Revolution Betrayed' called for the overthrow of the Soviet workers government in 1937 as the Soviet people desperately prepared for Fascist invasion. Who would this 'revolution' have helped? Well the Serbian 'revolution' led to the colonisation of their country by the EU and the other western powers as did the Polish 'Solidarity' movment and as would the MDC, if they were ever successful. Well, there was no EU in 1937 but there was the Nazi regime in Germany....

Axel1917

21st April 2007, 21:07

This is the price to be paid for adopting Menshevik "theories."

Rawthentic

22nd April 2007, 02:22

Also, how does a party become a class?
When it controls production and all aspects of life. Like post-revolution Russia, which came to be very quick after 1917.

VeratheFastest

22nd April 2007, 02:40

Why don't they simply abolish the monarchy instead of fading it like so? It is the king's incompetence that lost him the nation, not the Maoists.

Janus

22nd April 2007, 03:10

Why don't they simply abolish the monarchy instead of fading it like so?
The present monarchy is essentially powerless and although the Maoists want to permanently get rid of the king, some of the other political parties disagree. The constituent assembly is set to vote on the ultimate fate on the monarchy.

Severian

22nd April 2007, 07:40

Originally posted by Joseph [email protected] 21, 2007 01:11 pm
Severian-the MPRF do not just oppose the Maoists they oppose the whole of the 8 party alliance fighting for democracy in Nepal. Their suppossed demands for autonomy are demands the Maoists would meet anyway if they were in power, they are part of the Maoist program.

Quite clearly the interests of national minorities lie in the success of the republican movement. Are they likely to be realised in a reactionary monarchy? Why are the MPRF trying to destabilise a government that is the result of the April movement against the King? Obviously, because the leaders of the movement couldn't give a damn about the rights of national minorities.
In other words: the oppressed nationalities should trust that the bourgeois-democratic government will grant all their demands. If they persist in independently struggling for their demands, this proves they are part of a monarchist conspiracy.

Basically this is the same as saying Spanish revolutionary workers were agents of Franco, as Joseph Ball's ideological ancestors claimed.

He also glosses over how this report disproves a number of factual claims made by CPN(M) fans earlier in this thread. Slander, slander, slander - then when your slanders are disproved, just drop them and pretend they never happened.

I did a bit of speculation earlier myself, not all of which panned out. But if anything I was harsher on the MPRF than is supported by the facts shown by this investigation.

They are just a front organisation set up by the reactionary Hindu supporters of the Fascist Indian BJP and royalists.

There's no evidence for this claim.

Since Madheshis are ethnically related to Indians, they've always been accused of not being "real Nepalis" - this is an age-old bit of anti-Madheshi chauvinism here.

When you see this type of chauvinist argument raised by the CPN(Maoist)'s fans, it's easy to see how the CPN(M) has become the vanguard of traditional Pahadi chauvinism against the demands of Nepal's oppressed nationalities - not only the Madheshis, but also the indigenous nationalities, etc.

OneBrickOneVoice

23rd April 2007, 22:59

Except, of course, for the CPN(M), which is part of the Interim Government. Exactly as the Mensheviks and SRs joined the Provisional Government.

Um actually, its called the New Democratic Revolution and is the "Chinese path" not the "menshevik" one. If it was the "menshevik" one, then why did Lenin give aid to the Koumintang in exchange for co-operation with the CPC.

Learn more about Lenin and Mao, oh wait i forgot you're not a leninist, you're an anti-communist SWPer, completly divorced from communism or socialism, completly attached to social democracy

I've said before that for the reactionary CPN(M) it would be an improvement to become reformist. This is a good example of why.

the CPN(M) is not reactionary, they have been fighting revolution for 10 damn years, and are right at the New Democratic stage, the precursor to socialism. The SWP on the other hand IS reformist, so I can understand why you say that.

Comrade_Scott

25th April 2007, 02:05

why would they do this, why sell out whe it seems that they had the peoples support? they are now going to become some corupt thing getting fat off the work of the people they once tried to help. History is not on there side and the peace deal really was a real shit deal, they should have continued the fight.

RNK

25th April 2007, 03:16

I'd say give it 6 months to a year before making judgements. Of particular importance will be the national elections in June. This is a very important time in Nepal, and the fact of the matter is, they are there, and we are not. While it's easy to pass judgement from the safety of our bedrooms while they have been fighting and dying for the past decade, I would suggest we give them the benefit of the doubt, as well as our support (one of the most ironic aspects of this is that I see many people who have supported Cuba and Venezuela bash Nepal for pursuing an electoral policy rather than continuing the violent war).