The American "Democracy"

[EricDHobo]

Democracy (not socialist democracy) is total bullshit. It lasted for about ten years til some capitalists decieded that there was nothing stopping them from ripping off workers and starting a big company. Today these capitalists have occupied every American gov seat there is and the ignorant people of the country just sit back a say "hey, we're a democracy, what could go wrong." They have no idea. The are the only idiocic nation that wouldn't start a revolution when given the perfect chance. And also what is this shit about Americans hating those "commie bastards"? The americans should be supporting these people who are just trying to get away from the opression and bombing the hell out of France and Brittan. Don't they remember anything from their founding fathers? If any american revolutionaries were to see the current conditions they would go commie in a secound provided that the original founders weren't just capitalists in disquise as leftists. Here's a fun fact for everyone: George Washington kept several black female slaves around the white house that were there for him to rape whenever he was in the mood. Does this sound like the actions of a leftist? If we have so many here, who I assume mostly live in America, than we should take action immediatly. websites like this are great places for us leftists to meet and confer but this wont effect a single naive or ignorant democrat. Get people interested in the system that effects their entire life and make them realize that this is more imortant than starting a revolution at your school to lengthen the lunch period.

[Revolution Hero]

Totally agree with you on the issue of the bourgeoisie democracy. The only true democracy is the socialist one.

If you are from the states, then you have done a real progress.

[Marxman]

Good. You'e from the States. Because the States are the best place for a socialist revolution to ignite, the bet place. Why? Even Karl Marx said that the best place for a revolution is the advanced capitalist state and USA is the most advanced capitalist state, which means that proletariat are the numerous and strongest. USA is the heart of capitalism and if the revolution strikes there with a genuine marxist programme like it was in the Ocotber revolution, then the fire of revolution can immediately spread to other continents. And that's the point of all this - world wide revolution. Of course, all 'democratic' states are actually burgeois democratic, which is not so good, considering burgeois can do anything (from firing proletariat to financing political campaigns). Trotsky said:"Socialism without democracy is like body without oxygen." USA is ripe before it's too late, before another WW takes out and Bush is a great candidate for making it.

[Revolution Hero]

I am sceptical about socialist revolution in the USA. It will never start.

[Marxman]

Well, it's not necessary that it starts in the USA, although it's the best. BUT it must start in the advanced capitalist country and it must immediately spread to another advanced capitalist countries. Trotsky's permanent revolution is very helpful here and it's the only thing that can save genuine socialism. But the first step of evrything is that we EDUCATE, we must read books in order to educated the proletariat.

[Revolution Hero]

Yeah, we need to educate proletariat and peasantry also. True communists have to teach the masses about marxism-leninism and to criticize Trotskysm.

[Marxman]

No, not to criticise Trotsky. Look, what do you have against Trotksy? Have you read any non-stalinist books lately to confirm that Trotsky was against what Lenin was? Why do many people have against Trotksky? It is exactly what Stalinists want you to think. Don't you see? You're being brainwashed by the stalinists. You're saying that Lenin and Trotksy were nothing but idiots. If you critisise Trotsky, you're critisising Lenin. That's the simple equation.

[Nateddi]

Socialist revolution will not start in the US I am 99.9% certain.

[Marxman]

If you're a marxist, then you must claim that it's 99.9 percent that is starts there.

[marxistdisciple]

It's scary, but what if it doesn't start at all? I think that it must....but look at how little people realise about what is happening and how it is to convince most people??

[munkey soup]

Nateddi is 100% right. If there was a revolution in the U.S. it'd be put down (secretly, of course) in a blink of an eye. Don't stick so close to your ideology that you can't see the truth.

[Nateddi]

marxman,

we need to look at marx objectively and not dogmatically. we need to adjust his views for the 21st century. a lot of what he says is correct, while most is only good for 19th century politics. the US has a strong middle class and most of the exploitation is made in third world nations across the globe, not at home. this makes the overall lives for the US citizens not as miserable as they were in the 19th century, the class system is completely different now. the workers cannot simply take back the factories and form a new society, it isn't as simple now. on this issue, marx is unfortunately outdated. america will never lead a socialist revolution.

[Revolution Hero]

Quote: from Marxman on 3:08 am on Sep. 8, 2002
No, not to criticise Trotsky. Look, what do you have against Trotksy? Have you read any non-stalinist books lately to confirm that Trotsky was against what Lenin was? Why do many people have against Trotksky? It is exactly what Stalinists want you to think. Don't you see? You're being brainwashed by the stalinists. You're saying that Lenin and Trotksy were nothing but idiots. If you critisise Trotsky, you're critisising Lenin. That's the simple equation.


Wrong equation. The right one is the following:
If one defends Trotsky, it means that this person attacks Lenin and Leninism!!!

Listen, Marxman. I have read many soviet books on marxism-leninism. I am sure that they don't contain any stalinist propaganda. In contrary, there are a lot of criticism of the stalinist regime. The oldest of these books was published in 1974 and the most recent one in 1983. According to these books , Trotsky was the enemy of the whole marxist-leninist movement.
Also , all of my friends ( and they are not even leftists) were surprised when I told them what kind of things you had posted here. They are not leftists, but they know history well, so even they can point out your mistakes.

[Revolution Hero]

Quote: from Nateddi on 3:28 pm on Sep. 8, 2002
marxman,

we need to look at marx objectively and not dogmatically. šwe need to adjust his views for the 21st century. ša lot of what he says is correct, while most is only good for 19th century politics. šthe US has a strong middle class and most of the exploitation is made in third world nations across the globe, not at home. šthis makes the overall lives for the US citizens not as miserable as they were in the 19th century, the class system is completely different now. šthe workers cannot simply take back the factories and form a new society, it isn't as simple now. šon this issue, marx is unfortunately outdated. šamerica will never lead a socialist revolution.


I agree with Nateddi.

Marxman is just too ultra-left, crazy Trotskyst.

[Anonymous]

Revolution on USA will never hapen, and even if it hapens it will have catastrofic results, since there will be a huge civil war that will drown all world powers into it, and so a 3 orld war will apen, and a global war will mean global disaster! so expect the worst if USA will ever divide it self on a revolution that will revert into civil war!

[Revolution Hero]

I always respected realists.

[Revolution Hero]

I respect people with the realistic view on the present social-political moment.