Russian Antifacist in coma after facists attack

[mac1905]

Anti-fascist in Coma in Izhevsk


Yesterday 11 PM in Izhevsk of Udmurtian Republic, in Street of Communards 222, close to city council of Izhevsk few dozen Nazis attacked against a small group of antifa. 18 year old Stanislav Korepanov was seriously wounded, and is currently in coma in a very serious condition, fighting for his life. He has open brain injury, a neuro-chirurgical surgery has already been made to save his life.

Four 17-19 year old Nazis were arrested the same day. It is not known yet if they are still arrested.

This is not first time Nazis are assaulting anti-fascists in Izhevsk – in February of 2004, anarchist Oleg S. was so seriously wounded that it took more than a year for him to recover.


source:
http://www.avtonom.org/index.php?nid=796

[luxemburg89]

we should open some form of donation or at least all contribute a name to a long letter to him. I sincerly hope our comrade recovers.
I also hope the bastards responsible will be made to pay.

[Red October]

im really sorry to hear this. i've been doing some research on the anti-fa in russia and the situation for them is terrible over there. i agree that we should draft a letter of support for this comrade and find a way to get it to him. does anyone speak russian well? i take russian in school, but i'm nowhere near good enough to write the letter.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 01:47 pm
we should open some form of donation or at least all contribute a name to a long letter to him. I sincerly hope our comrade recovers.
I also hope the bastards responsible will be made to pay.
I wish we could set up a donation system for these poor people. Unfortunately, it happens more often then what appears on the news, and it would take the combined effort of every active member to help give money. a card is always nice, though. I would send one if someone could get me this persons address (although after being attacked by nazis i don't think he's so willing to give out his address)

[Red October]

there may be members here who have contacts in the russian anti-fa who could help out with that

[luxemburg89]

yeah - i mean if we can't send money then at least an email to show our sympathy and support. i dunno how we'd set up a huge email though

[luxemburg89]

oh btw my mum speaks quite a bit of russian - i could ask her to help but im not sure how good she's be - if there was someone on here who speaks it really well that's be better.

[redcannon]

i don't think money would be needed, but an email isn't simpathetic enough. a real letter would be great. how great would you feel if thousands of people from other countries cared about how you were doing after such an ordeal? a simple letter would be perfect.

[luxemburg89]

we could all sign an email set out as a letter and get a comrade in russia (there must be one on here) to print it off.

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 04:33 pm
we could all sign an email set out as a letter and get a comrade in russia (there must be one on here) to print it off.
the admins would probably know if there were any russians on here.

[mac1905]

The attacks will continue as groups as Format 18 or Rama Skins in Russia has more proffessional sources of finding personal informations than any redwatches.

[welshred]

is there a similar site as redwatch but with fascist adresses on?

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by redcannon+March 29, 2007 01:35 pm--> (redcannon @ March 29, 2007 01:35 pm)
[email protected] 28, 2007 01:47 pm
we should open some form of donation or at least all contribute a name to a long letter to him. I sincerly hope our comrade recovers.
I also hope the bastards responsible will be made to pay.
I wish we could set up a donation system for these poor people. Unfortunately, it happens more often then what appears on the news, and it would take the combined effort of every active member to help give money. a card is always nice, though. I would send one if someone could get me this persons address (although after being attacked by nazis i don't think he's so willing to give out his address) [/b]
I agree, I wish there was a group set up to help them as fascist attacks on antifascists seems to be a serious problem in Russia. I remember the case of the two communist siblings attacked by fash - they were also ethnic minorities I belive.

If anyone knows of any such network, please let me know!

[Anton]

my native language is Russian,
If you guys make up the letter, i will be willing to translate it.

[luxemburg89]

yeah cool - mac1905 you posted the thread, would you like to write the letter?

[Djehuti]

31st of March 2 AM Stanislav Korepanov died in hospital from wounds
resulting from a fight with Nazis in Tuesday 27th. One of his friends has recognized one of the attackers, but there is still nothing known about four persons arrested in Tuesday. Funeral will be held next Tuesday. Stanislav was 18 years old.

http://www.avtonom.org/index.php?nid=803

[Red October]

fucking pigs. this probably wont be investigated and the fuckers who did it wont ever be caught.

[Aurora]

Fuck.

:banner: :redstar:

[redcannon]

Oy. those fucking fash pigs...

and its all true. the thing won't be investigated, those fuckers will get away with it. it makes me sick and angry at the same time

[RedArmyFaction]

it's no suprise to me it happened in Russia

[Cybercide]

...damn :angry:

[Djehuti]

Anarchist killed in Angarsk, Siberia. A protest camp was attacked by armed nazis while sleeping, several seriously injured and one anarchist killed.

[1968]

Ulger, (Ilya), an anarchist from Vladivostok, died this night in hospital. He has been killed during a Nazi’s assault to an Eko camp in Angarsk (Siberia).
The call of the camp was made by Baikal Ecological Wave - an ecologist libertarian association - and Autonomous Action of Irkutsk.
No doubt more news will follow. We also believe a number of comrades have been very seriously injured.





http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/PunkDub/a2.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/PunkDub/a1.png

RIP.

[ecoanarchist]

This is why our petty differences dont matter!

This is why im sick of all of the internal arguing. Sure, argue over theory, but is there any reason for personal attacks on each other?

Why cant we all just realize who our real enemy is?

[R_P_A_S]

i dont understand how there could be a neo nazis in Russia. out of all places

[ecoanarchist]

From what I've heard, its one of the worst places, but I geuss that could be attributed to its size.

What is the reaction to this?

We have dead brothers. Killed in the night.

Fuck. :(

[Djehuti]

Their latest murders!
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/14/news/execute.php

The actual video, it is fucking sick! Do not watch if you're not sure you can:
http://www.flurl.com/item/Video_Executed_2...gestan_u_270205 (http://www.flurl.com/item/Video_Executed_2_Immigrants_from_Tajikistan_Dagest an_u_270205)

Another video of brave russian nazis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scMKyAYd92k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaucyLyZRdY


Iam so damn angry!

[partizan604]

a year ago those motherfucking facists killed my friend, who lived in Moscow. those were so called skin-heads.

Russia is at war.and we are overpressed by now. because our people don't give a fuck.

[An archist]

I just saw the report on the beheadings.
Sick, I fear for antifa and foreigners in Russia

[Djehuti]

What we really should to is to organize an "antifa-crusade" to Russia. Really.
Like we organize resistance against G8 summits etc.

Imagine several hundred antifascists from all Europe (and probably some from elsewhere as well) coming together in, say Moscow for a week or two. All sorts of activities in buildings as on the streets, and possibly schools, work places etc. As well as confrontations and other actions against fascist individuals and groups.

Honestly, in most countries there are quite a lot engaged in militant antifascism (and much more interested in it) even though the threat is quite small (at the moment atleast). Here in Stockholm for example we allready have several groups of militant antifascists and many more wanting to participate even though there is no need for more antifascists in Stockholm: Radical socialists rarely encounter any problems with fascists and fascist activities are quite few. What we need is more general socialist initiatives, there is never enough of those. I guess the situation is similar in most western countries. In Russia however, there is a dire need for antifascist activities. Russian antifas are severely outnumbered and they need every support they can get.

Antifa groups in all the world should really organize an antifascist week (or more) in Russia. A week full of events which would put light on the situation, encourage and inspire people in Russia aswell as elsewhere.

[luxemburg89]

Have the men been identified. This is horrific. I think we should hold a two minutes silence when they are identified this week. I feel so sad, thank you for posting - this serves to remind us that Capitalism is not our only enemy, that we have to fight on two fronts, and that the world is still terrible at times. I want revenge - as I'm sure the whole world does - but no revenge will be enough for this. This post is basically rambling, I'm really lost for meaningful words.

[1968]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 07:58 pm
What we really should to is to organize an "antifa-crusade" to Russia. Really.
Like we organize resistance against G8 summits etc.

Imagine several hundred antifascists from all Europe (and probably some from elsewhere as well) coming together in, say Moscow for a week or two. All sorts of activities in buildings as on the streets, and possibly schools, work places etc. As well as confrontations and other actions against fascist individuals and groups.

Honestly, in most countries there are quite a lot engaged in militant antifascism (and much more interested in it) even though the threat is quite small (at the moment atleast). Here in Stockholm for example we allready have several groups of militant antifascists and many more wanting to participate even though there is no need for more antifascists in Stockholm: Radical socialists rarely encounter any problems with fascists and fascist activities are quite few. What we need is more general socialist initiatives, there is never enough of those. I guess the situation is similar in most western countries. In Russia however, there is a dire need for antifascist activities. Russian antifas are severely outnumbered and they need every support they can get.

Very interesting idea.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 09:58 pm
What we really should to is to organize an "antifa-crusade" to Russia. Really.
Like we organize resistance against G8 summits etc.

Imagine several hundred antifascists from all Europe (and probably some from elsewhere as well) coming together in, say Moscow for a week or two. All sorts of activities in buildings as on the streets, and possibly schools, work places etc. As well as confrontations and other actions against fascist individuals and groups.

Honestly, in most countries there are quite a lot engaged in militant antifascism (and much more interested in it) even though the threat is quite small (at the moment atleast). Here in Stockholm for example we allready have several groups of militant antifascists and many more wanting to participate even though there is no need for more antifascists in Stockholm: Radical socialists rarely encounter any problems with fascists and fascist activities are quite few. What we need is more general socialist initiatives, there is never enough of those. I guess the situation is similar in most western countries. In Russia however, there is a dire need for antifascist activities. Russian antifas are severely outnumbered and they need every support they can get.

Antifa groups in all the world should really organize an antifascist week (or more) in Russia. A week full of events which would put light on the situation, encourage and inspire people in Russia aswell as elsewhere.
It is so temporarly. You can't stay there forever as an international group. You must eradicate the roots and that will take time. That's why we are radicals (radex = root). Fascism, especially amongst youngsters, gains support because of Putins attacks on the working class and the betrayal by the "communist" party.

Russia today is comparable to Germany in the late 20s and 30s. Despair amongst the workers and middle classes made many turn towards national socialism. Hindenburg was a bonapartist, a strong figure who was able to keep "democracy" strong during deep crisis. Putin is also a Bonapartist. There is no real crisis in Russia's economy, but their is a social crisis. Any many turn their hopes towards fascism.

The only solution in the long term is a socialist alternative that has it's roots in the working class of Russia. It will mean a guide to social revolution. I know that it is hard to set up such an alternative in Russia, but it is definately not some sort of anti-fascist group ready to confront nazis and stay their for some weeks. It should be a strong and lasting organisation. Anarchist and/or communist, ready to confront fascist ideology with newspapers, speeches, rallies. It must be able to link fascism to the social crisis and the attacks of the putin regime on the working class.
I hope nobody will come up with the idea to confront the fascists themselves with some sort of huge antifa squad in order to take them out fysicaly.

[Slavija_Bogu]

If you think Russian skinheads are your biggest concern you are sadly mistaken. The Cossacks are back! They have been given new authority and have formed new groups.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5211193698484595084

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1083193262895229896

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6937562.stm

Watch the two videos and read the bbc report.

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 05:44 pm
Another video of brave russian nazis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scMKyAYd92k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaucyLyZRdY


Iam so damn angry!
Funny. If these were Antifas beating up Nazis, then their actions would actually be considered in high regard. Violence is violence. End of story.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Pia Fidelis+August 27, 2007 06:19 am--> (Pia Fidelis @ August 27, 2007 06:19 am)
[email protected] 15, 2007 05:44 pm
Another video of brave russian nazis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scMKyAYd92k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaucyLyZRdY


Iam so damn angry!
Funny. If these were Antifas beating up Nazis, then their actions would actually be considered in high regard. Violence is violence. End of story. [/b]
Of course it is. And black is black and white is white.

One thing you need to realise is that the world is not black and white, but many shades of grey. Besides, if we just acted like soft liberals, we'd be massacred all over the globe.

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+August 27, 2007 05:26 am--> (Red_Anarchist @ August 27, 2007 05:26 am)
Originally posted by Pia [email protected] 27, 2007 06:19 am

[email protected] 15, 2007 05:44 pm
Another video of brave russian nazis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scMKyAYd92k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaucyLyZRdY


Iam so damn angry!
Funny. If these were Antifas beating up Nazis, then their actions would actually be considered in high regard. Violence is violence. End of story.
Of course it is. And black is black and white is white.

One thing you need to realise is that the world is not black and white, but many shades of grey. Besides, if we just acted like soft liberals, we'd be massacred all over the globe. [/b]
You misinterpreted my point totally.

I am just saying that one set of violence is found abhorrent, whereas another is praised. Neither is honourable, and neither is beneficial to any element of any movement.

[Red October]

Whether between countries or not, this is a war. The Fascists are not interested in peaceful cooperation towards a better society, they are trying to exterminate us and many others. Sitting in a circle singing kumbaya and being nonviolent will never stop them, it only makes us easier targets. In order to defend ourselves, we need to be able to respond to them with violence.

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 27, 2007 08:34 pm
Whether between countries or not, this is a war. The Fascists are not interested in peaceful cooperation towards a better society, they are trying to exterminate us and many others. Sitting in a circle singing kumbaya and being nonviolent will never stop them, it only makes us easier targets. In order to defend ourselves, we need to be able to respond to them with violence.
When did I say anything about peace and non-violence? I am talking about common sense and rational tactics.

I was referring to the cowardly tactics, which both sides endorse. Why not draw lines and fight? Why resort to dishonourable swarming? Especially when Antifas outnumber Nazis about 10 to 1, and whose message has the public and government's support? Neither guerrilla or gorilla tactics are what should be used.

Why use degenerate "protests" and resort to petty terrorism like the Black Bloc? What ever happened to having self-respect and regard for the PEOPLE? How good does it look when there are a group of gutter-punks standing around screaming with signs and throwing rocks?

The general western public is anti-racist, so are western governments, so why are Antifa disliked and arrested at protests? Acting like degenerate miscreants, no matter what your political backing, will OPPOSE general support.

If you see a Nazi, don't bother him/her, and especially do not act violent. If he attacks, of course, defend yourself, but do not incite anything - do not make him/her the victim. Allow THEM to make the mistakes, and allow the state to arrest them for illegal acts. Vigilantism is not condoned or supported by the public. It is NOT illegal to be a Nazi, it is to attack someone - remember that! A plan of attack is not defense, and is especially not SELF-DEFENSE!

If this is a war, then it is being fought very poorly from the side of the Antifas: all the advantages, but still no victory.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 01:45 pm
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/PunkDub/a1.png

RIP.
We have to do something about this. We cannot let our Comrades fall without justice. I am willing to begin some sort of campaign to grant Leftists fair trial (because it is certainly why these people are getting away with it, because the victims are Revolutionaries), if you are interested message me and we'll figure something out.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Scribe+August 28, 2007 08:11 pm--> (Scribe @ August 28, 2007 08:11 pm)
[email protected] 23, 2007 01:45 pm
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/PunkDub/a1.png

RIP.
We have to do something about this. We cannot let our Comrades fall without justice. I am willing to begin some sort of campaign to grant Leftists fair trial (because it is certainly why these people are getting away with it, because the victims are Revolutionaries), if you are interested message me and we'll figure something out. [/b]
No, what needs to be done is for that same picture to be taken, but with a swastika on the t-shirt.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by Fawkes+August 29, 2007 01:25 am--> (Fawkes @ August 29, 2007 01:25 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 08:11 pm

[email protected] 23, 2007 01:45 pm
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/PunkDub/a1.png

RIP.
We have to do something about this. We cannot let our Comrades fall without justice. I am willing to begin some sort of campaign to grant Leftists fair trial (because it is certainly why these people are getting away with it, because the victims are Revolutionaries), if you are interested message me and we'll figure something out.
No, what needs to be done is for that same picture to be taken, but with a swastika on the t-shirt. [/b]
A splendid idea for my "campaign".

Change in plans. Go kill a Nazi.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Scribe+August 28, 2007 08:43 pm--> (Scribe @ August 28, 2007 08:43 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:25 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 08:11 pm

[email protected] 23, 2007 01:45 pm
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/PunkDub/a1.png

RIP.
We have to do something about this. We cannot let our Comrades fall without justice. I am willing to begin some sort of campaign to grant Leftists fair trial (because it is certainly why these people are getting away with it, because the victims are Revolutionaries), if you are interested message me and we'll figure something out.
No, what needs to be done is for that same picture to be taken, but with a swastika on the t-shirt.
A splendid idea for my "campaign".

Change in plans. Go kill a Nazi. [/b]
The thing is, the government doesn't give a fuck if some anarchist is killed, and their court system is sure not going to do that person justice.

[Fawkes]

What are gun laws in Russia like?

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 02:02 am
What are gun laws in Russia like?
This source (http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/9283-10.cfm) explains.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Ah, the source is about two years old. Laws could have since then changed. it was the first result on google.

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 01:25 am
No, what needs to be done is for that same picture to be taken, but with a swastika on the t-shirt.
Go ahead and do it. Sink to the level of a murderer.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by An [email protected] 15, 2007 06:53 pm
I just saw the report on the beheadings.
Sick, I fear for antifa and foreigners in Russia
I saw the beheadings.

Really slow knife...

[Tower of Bebel]

I saw beheadings of Iraqis by sectarian groups, but this one was the worst I ever saw. It made me feel bad. The beheadings by the nationalists are seen by some media as a so called revenge for the beheadings of "whites" by fundamentalists in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Coggeh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 05:44 pm
Their latest murders!
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/14/news/execute.php

The actual video, it is fucking sick! Do not watch if you're not sure you can:
http://www.flurl.com/item/Video_Executed_2...gestan_u_270205 (http://www.flurl.com/item/Video_Executed_2_Immigrants_from_Tajikistan_Dagest an_u_270205)

Another video of brave russian nazis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scMKyAYd92k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaucyLyZRdY


Iam so damn angry!
i cant see the video , its like not coming up , can only see comments .. whats teh deal ?

[ComradeR]

The people who committed this need to be rounded up, shot through the gut and left to die, it's the lest they deserve.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Pia Fidelis+August 28, 2007 11:23 pm--> (Pia Fidelis @ August 28, 2007 11:23 pm)
[email protected] 29, 2007 01:25 am
No, what needs to be done is for that same picture to be taken, but with a swastika on the t-shirt.
Go ahead and do it. Sink to the level of a murderer. [/b]
I live in the U.S., not Russia. Are you suggesting that when Nazis murder Antifas in relatively large numbers, we should not respond with violence? Obviously, simply attacking fascists is only one of many tactics that needs to be utilized to successfully combat fascists, but it is one that needs to be used nonetheless.

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by Fawkes+August 30, 2007 12:11 am--> (Fawkes @ August 30, 2007 12:11 am)
Originally posted by Pia [email protected] 28, 2007 11:23 pm

[email protected] 29, 2007 01:25 am
No, what needs to be done is for that same picture to be taken, but with a swastika on the t-shirt.
Go ahead and do it. Sink to the level of a murderer.
I live in the U.S., not Russia. Are you suggesting that when Nazis murder Antifas in relatively large numbers, we should not respond with violence? Obviously, simply attacking fascists is only one of many tactics that needs to be utilized to successfully combat fascists, but it is one that needs to be used nonetheless. [/b]
Please show me these "large numbers". Last time I checked, Antifas are more numerous then ANY Nazi movement in both sheer numbers and public support. Remember, it is about what the people want. Vigilante justice does nothing, nor will it ever, except turn more people against any Antifa movement.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Well, Fidelis, what would you have us to do? Put flowers in the barrels of the Nazi guns and sing "I love you, you hate me, we'd make a good sitcom family!"? We should attack THEIR gathering places, kill THEIR kamerads, and knock THEM into comas, not sit around and wait for the Nazis to attack us while we sing cheesey revolutionary campfire songs.

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 02:32 am
Well, Fidelis, what would you have us to do? Put flowers in the barrels of the Nazi guns and sing "I love you, you hate me, we'd make a good sitcom family!"? We should attack THEIR gathering places, kill THEIR kamerads, and knock THEM into comas, not sit around and wait for the Nazis to attack us while we sing cheesey revolutionary campfire songs.
Of course, that is completely logical: one can either oppose by supporting murder or doing nothing whatsoever. Apparently, there is only black and white.

Please tell me, how many Antifas are being killed? How many of the board members (yourself included Zhou) are constantly threatened by Nazis? Is it right to attack them? Of course not. Everyone here condones the attacks committed by Nazis, but has no problem whatsoever supporting the attack and murder of a Nazi. How does that make sense? Please explain this to me. A murder is a murder, no matter what the political beliefs of the person. The murder of an Antifas is the same as a murder of a Nazi; both are equally wrong.

I think everyone is over-reacting to this whole situation, especially those who do not live in Russia. In EVERY country, the Antifas outnumber Nazis 10 to 1. In Russia, they outnumber them 8 to 1; therefore it is a Nazi takeover?

So, will I defend myself if someone attacks me? Of course. Will I go out of my way to seek someone out to attack them? NO! I am not a criminal, nor will I ever be.

I think that there is too much pent-up youth anger being vented in this thread, because I highly doubt that anyone here is capable of taking someone else's life over such meager things as political preference. Would anyone here be so heinous as to decapitate someone in the same manner as was posted in the video earlier? I doubt it, and if you will, you are just as bad as ANY Nazi.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Pia Fidelis+August 30, 2007 09:26 pm--> (Pia Fidelis @ August 30, 2007 09:26 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 12:11 am

Originally posted by Pia [email protected] 28, 2007 11:23 pm

[email protected] 29, 2007 01:25 am
No, what needs to be done is for that same picture to be taken, but with a swastika on the t-shirt.
Go ahead and do it. Sink to the level of a murderer.
I live in the U.S., not Russia. Are you suggesting that when Nazis murder Antifas in relatively large numbers, we should not respond with violence? Obviously, simply attacking fascists is only one of many tactics that needs to be utilized to successfully combat fascists, but it is one that needs to be used nonetheless.
Please show me these "large numbers". Last time I checked, Antifas are more numerous then ANY Nazi movement in both sheer numbers and public support. Remember, it is about what the people want. Vigilante justice does nothing, nor will it ever, except turn more people against any Antifa movement. [/b]
In 2005, neo-Nazis were responsible for 28 murders across Russia and in 2004, they were responsible for 46. Source. (http://www.exile.ru/2006-February-24/scared_skins.html) Considering the political climate today, that is by all means a high number.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Please tell me, how many Antifas are being killed? How many of the board members (yourself included Zhou) are constantly threatened by Nazis? Is it right to attack them? Of course not. Everyone here condones the attacks committed by Nazis, but has no problem whatsoever supporting the attack and murder of a Nazi. How does that make sense? Please explain this to me. A murder is a murder, no matter what the political beliefs of the person. The murder of an Antifas is the same as a murder of a Nazi; both are equally wrong.

Hm. I've been threatened for being a communist every day on my school bus when it's school time. I don't care. Condone, I believe, means support. Condemn is more like it. Would you like it if one of your comrades were shot down? No! You would condemn it like the Nazis would if I shot one of their kamerads. Therefore, it's necessary to strike back. No fucking kidding that we support the killings of Nazis; WE HATE THEM. They started a war and a genocide that in total (combined) equalled almost 100 million people. They are the worst type of capitalist, and they will take up arms for their type of insurrection. Us? We are revolutionaries. We are willing to take up arms for OUR type of insurrection. We aren't CPUSA pussies; we will fight back. That means taking up arms with the fist, the knife, and the bullet, and striking back against their fists, knives, and bullets.


I think that there is too much pent-up youth anger being vented in this thread, because I highly doubt that anyone here is capable of taking someone else's life over such meager things as political preference. Would anyone here be so heinous as to decapitate someone in the same manner as was posted in the video earlier? I doubt it, and if you will, you are just as bad as ANY Nazi.
[quote]

If they can shoot someone over political ideology, then so are we. Comrades before us have, and we shall too. What do you think a revolution is? It's an armed revolt against the ideology of capitalism and those whom adhere and fight for it against us.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

No reply. Fear my infallible omniscience! :-O

[Red Scare]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 07:55 pm
If you think Russian skinheads are your biggest concern you are sadly mistaken. The Cossacks are back! They have been given new authority and have formed new groups.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5211193698484595084

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1083193262895229896

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6937562.stm

Watch the two videos and read the bbc report.
:angry:
fuck....

[Red Radical]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 02:15 pm

Please tell me, how many Antifas are being killed? How many of the board members (yourself included Zhou) are constantly threatened by Nazis? Is it right to attack them? Of course not. Everyone here condones the attacks committed by Nazis, but has no problem whatsoever supporting the attack and murder of a Nazi. How does that make sense? Please explain this to me. A murder is a murder, no matter what the political beliefs of the person. The murder of an Antifas is the same as a murder of a Nazi; both are equally wrong.

Hm. I've been threatened for being a communist every day on my school bus when it's school time. I don't care. Condone, I believe, means support. Condemn is more like it. Would you like it if one of your comrades were shot down? No! You would condemn it like the Nazis would if I shot one of their kamerads. Therefore, it's necessary to strike back. No fucking kidding that we support the killings of Nazis; WE HATE THEM. They started a war and a genocide that in total (combined) equalled almost 100 million people. They are the worst type of capitalist, and they will take up arms for their type of insurrection. Us? We are revolutionaries. We are willing to take up arms for OUR type of insurrection. We aren't CPUSA pussies; we will fight back. That means taking up arms with the fist, the knife, and the bullet, and striking back against their fists, knives, and bullets.


I am with Koretsu on this if they kill one Antifa i believe we should take two nazi lives. They are not people ,did you not watch the video of the beheadings they have no regaurd for human life they will kill you. They dont care, if your not one of them your on their hit list. Is killing wrong? I believe thats a grey area. Are you saying even if a nazi killed a close comrade of yours you would not retalliate with violence? I dont care if we fight with fists or bullets nazi facism must be silenced. :angry:


*sorry about my spelling*

[kracken]

an eye for a eye makes the whole world blind.

killing nazis will not stop the nazis, just like killing anti fascists will not stop the anti fascists.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 11:05 am
an eye for a eye makes the whole world blind.
Your pacifistic mantra spewing is not going to change the facts of the world no matter how often you repeat it.


killing nazis will not stop the nazis, just like killing anti fascists will not stop the anti fascists.

It certainly helped stop the first lot of nazis, I don't know if you recall a little scrap called World War II but it involved a lot of violence and eventually the nazi support was intensly diminished.

Lessening the number of fascists in the world is a good thing and don't you ever fucking forget it kiddo.

[kracken]

you wont lessen the number of fascists by trying to kill them all off. first lot of nazis? did they ever go away? nazi support diminished more because of their own actions than anything the allies did.There has always been antisemitism, racism ect if you want to stop fascism you need to stop what causes fascism.If we become focused on killing fascists we arnt any better than they are. nazis arnt a race of people. we cant stop them by slowly weeding out their gene pool.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

you wont lessen the number of fascists by trying to kill them all off

They said the same thing about the buffalo when they were widespread, they shot the buffalo every time a herd appeared, now they're almost extinct.

[kracken]

but like i also said, they arnt their own race.they are our race. so unless we plan on purposely wipeing ourselves out...

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 02:34 pm
but like i also said, they arnt their own race.they are our race. so unless we plan on purposely wipeing ourselves out...
I know, but there isn't exactly a way to destroy an idea. There are ways to suppress them, not destroy them. Kill their believers.

[kracken]

but as long as the idea is alive there will still be belivers...i hate fascists as much as anyone else on this board but i cant agree with killing as a means of dealing with them

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 08:42 am
you wont lessen the number of fascists by trying to kill them all off. first lot of nazis? did they ever go away? nazi support diminished more because of their own actions than anything the allies did.There has always been antisemitism, racism ect if you want to stop fascism you need to stop what causes fascism.If we become focused on killing fascists we arnt any better than they are. nazis arnt a race of people. we cant stop them by slowly weeding out their gene pool.
I highly doubt that anyone here is suggesting that antifas solely attack fascists. Most antifas agree that a two-pronged approach is needed: educate their potential support base (white, working class) and fight them hand-to-hand to prevent them from gaining control of the streets, which is what they've done in Russia. Once they gain control of the streets, they can attack people at will, and the next step is turning their movement into a "legitimate" one and gaining political power.

[kracken]

hmmm good point. i just dont like the idea of murder as a solution

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 09:50 am
hmmm good point. i just dont like the idea of murder as a solution
Nor do I.

[Coggeh]

Originally posted by Fawkes+September 02, 2007 02:52 pm--> (Fawkes @ September 02, 2007 02:52 pm)
[email protected] 02, 2007 09:50 am
hmmm good point. i just dont like the idea of murder as a solution
Nor do I. [/b]
I do



Well at least for the guys who made that video ,dirty scum :angry:

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Coggy+September 02, 2007 10:06 am--> (Coggy @ September 02, 2007 10:06 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 02:52 pm

[email protected] 02, 2007 09:50 am
hmmm good point. i just dont like the idea of murder as a solution
Nor do I.
I do



Well at least for the guys who made that video ,dirty scum :angry: [/b]
Well, of course I would support the killing of them by antifas, but I still would rather that it did not have to happen in the first place.

[Black Flag Rising]

Originally posted by Pia Fidelis+August 29, 2007 04:23 am--> (Pia Fidelis @ August 29, 2007 04:23 am)
[email protected] 29, 2007 01:25 am
No, what needs to be done is for that same picture to be taken, but with a swastika on the t-shirt.
Go ahead and do it. Sink to the level of a murderer. [/b]
What do you suggest the AntiFas do about Fascists killing/fatally harming Revolutionaries? As Jazzratt indicated previously, violence is the most effective solution, it is a fact of life. World War II, the perfect example. I don't support savage murder as much as the next guy, so I refer to it as "Anti-Fascist Action" :lol:.

[kracken]

but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists.
Hence the two pronged tactic, shitnugget.


if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades.

What do you mean "draw more fascists to be killed", fascism is about power and, when they're not powerful and not numerous what few fascists there are will be driven far underground. The other reason for killing fascists is that we must defend ourselves.


world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism.

They were fascist governments - Italy & Germany were both fascist states at the time and now they're not. Millions of people were fascists before the war but their numbers dwindled drastically at the collapse of the fascist governments.


Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle

No but fascists are.

[kracken]

arg fine i give up

[Black Flag Rising]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle
Okay, now... you have stated your opinion (many times). As you are becoming repetitive, I will ask a different question.

Okay, violence is not the answer. What is?

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Originally posted by Black Flag Rising+September 02, 2007 04:52 pm--> (Black Flag Rising @ September 02, 2007 04:52 pm)
[email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle
Okay, now... you have stated your opinion (many times). As you are becoming repetitive, I will ask a different question.

Okay, violence is not the answer. What is? [/b]
Nothing else is when it comes to the Nazis and fascists. You can't reason with them. They're too thick, they're too monstrous for reasoning, you have to meet them with force. Fist, firebomb, and bullet. That would be the only thing they can significantly respond to, they're that thick.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Koretsu+September 02, 2007 12:59 pm--> (Koretsu @ September 02, 2007 12:59 pm)
Originally posted by Black Flag [email protected] 02, 2007 04:52 pm

[email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle
Okay, now... you have stated your opinion (many times). As you are becoming repetitive, I will ask a different question.

Okay, violence is not the answer. What is?
Nothing else is when it comes to the Nazis and fascists. You can't reason with them. They're too thick, they're too monstrous for reasoning, you have to meet them with force. Fist, firebomb, and bullet. That would be the only thing they can significantly respond to, they're that thick. [/b]
An often fatal flaw that many people make in a competitive scenario is to underestimate their opponents' abilities. Fascist are not as "thick" as you make them out to be. They're not all drunken idiots that have no reasoning capabilities.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Originally posted by Fawkes+September 02, 2007 06:03 pm--> (Fawkes @ September 02, 2007 06:03 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 12:59 pm

Originally posted by Black Flag [email protected] 02, 2007 04:52 pm

[email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle
Okay, now... you have stated your opinion (many times). As you are becoming repetitive, I will ask a different question.

Okay, violence is not the answer. What is?
Nothing else is when it comes to the Nazis and fascists. You can't reason with them. They're too thick, they're too monstrous for reasoning, you have to meet them with force. Fist, firebomb, and bullet. That would be the only thing they can significantly respond to, they're that thick.
An often fatal flaw that many people make in a competitive scenario is to underestimate their opponents' abilities. Fascist are not as "thick" as you make them out to be. They're not all drunken idiots that have no reasoning capabilities. [/b]
What? Explain. Please, explain.

And also, aren't those kind you're talking about the minority?

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Koretsu+September 02, 2007 01:19 pm--> (Koretsu @ September 02, 2007 01:19 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 06:03 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 12:59 pm

Originally posted by Black Flag [email protected] 02, 2007 04:52 pm

[email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle
Okay, now... you have stated your opinion (many times). As you are becoming repetitive, I will ask a different question.

Okay, violence is not the answer. What is?
Nothing else is when it comes to the Nazis and fascists. You can't reason with them. They're too thick, they're too monstrous for reasoning, you have to meet them with force. Fist, firebomb, and bullet. That would be the only thing they can significantly respond to, they're that thick.
An often fatal flaw that many people make in a competitive scenario is to underestimate their opponents' abilities. Fascist are not as "thick" as you make them out to be. They're not all drunken idiots that have no reasoning capabilities.
What? Explain. Please, explain.

And also, aren't those kind you're talking about the minority? [/b]
What I mean is they're not all drunken idiots just as much as we are all not skinny, vegan punks.

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by Black Flag [email protected] 02, 2007 03:37 pm
Go ahead and do it. Sink to the level of a murderer.
What do you suggest the AntiFas do about Fascists killing/fatally harming Revolutionaries? As Jazzratt indicated previously, violence is the most effective solution, it is a fact of life. World War II, the perfect example. I don't support savage murder as much as the next guy, so I refer to it as "Anti-Fascist Action" :lol:. [/quote]
Not specifically just in response to you, but in response to all of those that are supporting murder:

You are so into this? Go kill someone, otherwise, stop sitting around venting your anger over something that you have no part of (with the exception of those who are in Russia). I would love to see how many of you guys are actually capable of the murder you praise.

The comparison between now and WWII is absurd, as there are two completely different situations. One, was a war between states (that is, two professional armies clashing), this situation is petty gorilla (I have used this purposely) warfare between two pathetic rag-tag groups both trying to "uphold" their "values" in the most appropriate Jacobian manner. I do tire of these Jacobin ideas, and I HIGHLY doubt that anyone here wants another reign of terror.

So, if you disagree with me and want to call me a "Pacifist", then, put your money where your mouth is! (pardon the capitalist slang) Go out and not be a pacifist! Go resort to the pathetic swarming techniques! Go send misguided youth to hospitals! Go kill!

[Black Flag Rising]

Originally posted by Pia [email protected] 03, 2007 12:31 am

Go ahead and do it. Sink to the level of a murderer.
What do you suggest the AntiFas do about Fascists killing/fatally harming Revolutionaries? As Jazzratt indicated previously, violence is the most effective solution, it is a fact of life. World War II, the perfect example. I don't support savage murder as much as the next guy, so I refer to it as "Anti-Fascist Action" :lol:.
Not specifically just in response to you, but in response to all of those that are supporting murder:

You are so into this? Go kill someone, otherwise, stop sitting around venting your anger over something that you have no part of (with the exception of those who are in Russia). I would love to see how many of you guys are actually capable of the murder you praise.

The comparison between now and WWII is absurd, as there are two completely different situations. One, was a war between states (that is, two professional armies clashing), this situation is petty gorilla (I have used this purposely) warfare between two pathetic rag-tag groups both trying to "uphold" their "values" in the most appropriate Jacobian manner. I do tire of these Jacobin ideas, and I HIGHLY doubt that anyone here wants another reign of terror.

So, if you disagree with me and want to call me a "Pacifist", then, put your money where your mouth is! (pardon the capitalist slang) Go out and not be a pacifist! Go resort to the pathetic swarming techniques! Go send misguided youth to hospitals! Go kill! [/quote]
Your right, I wouldn't be able to kill a Nazi. But, in all truth, I would not mind violence against them around me. Perhaps it is because I am a total armchair revolutionary, (un)fortunately(perhaps), or perhaps because I'm simply a ***** :blink:

[Black Flag Rising]

No matter a method, it is quite irrelevant, actually. When dust comes to dust, one truth remains: something must be done.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by Koretsu+September 02, 2007 05:59 pm--> (Koretsu @ September 02, 2007 05:59 pm)
Originally posted by Black Flag [email protected] 02, 2007 04:52 pm

[email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle
Okay, now... you have stated your opinion (many times). As you are becoming repetitive, I will ask a different question.

Okay, violence is not the answer. What is?
Nothing else is when it comes to the Nazis and fascists. You can't reason with them. They're too thick, they're too monstrous for reasoning, you have to meet them with force. Fist, firebomb, and bullet. That would be the only thing they can significantly respond to, they're that thick. [/b]
So you suggest we simply do nothing and let the Fascists grow?

[Comrade Rage]

Fight them by any means necessary. Russia, honestly, is cooked. They probably will become fascist unless the leftists unite.

We can't let the NSM in America or the BNP in Britain get that much power and organization.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Originally posted by Scribe+September 05, 2007 06:57 pm--> (Scribe @ September 05, 2007 06:57 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 05:59 pm

Originally posted by Black Flag [email protected] 02, 2007 04:52 pm

[email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle
Okay, now... you have stated your opinion (many times). As you are becoming repetitive, I will ask a different question.

Okay, violence is not the answer. What is?
Nothing else is when it comes to the Nazis and fascists. You can't reason with them. They're too thick, they're too monstrous for reasoning, you have to meet them with force. Fist, firebomb, and bullet. That would be the only thing they can significantly respond to, they're that thick.
So you suggest we simply do nothing and let the Fascists grow? [/b]
No, you fight them, as I just stated there.

[Saint Street Revolution]

Originally posted by Koretsu+September 05, 2007 07:49 pm--> (Koretsu @ September 05, 2007 07:49 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 06:57 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 05:59 pm

Originally posted by Black Flag [email protected] 02, 2007 04:52 pm

[email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
but it isnt....if you can meatgrind through thousands and there will still be fascists. if revolutionaries started consecutively killing fascists, it would only draw more fascists to be killed , and to kill more comrades. world war 2 was the defeat of a government, not a fascism. Fascism is not something that we directly can grab hold of, and strangle
Okay, now... you have stated your opinion (many times). As you are becoming repetitive, I will ask a different question.

Okay, violence is not the answer. What is?
Nothing else is when it comes to the Nazis and fascists. You can't reason with them. They're too thick, they're too monstrous for reasoning, you have to meet them with force. Fist, firebomb, and bullet. That would be the only thing they can significantly respond to, they're that thick.
So you suggest we simply do nothing and let the Fascists grow?
No, you fight them, as I just stated there. [/b]
Oh shit, lol, I thought you were disagreeing with force :lol: sorry...