Discrimination against the mentally unwell

[Yazman]

I have just finished reading the autobiography of a friend (Woodshedding to Recovery, by Michael Ellem - I suggest it if you can get a hold of a copy!) and after having discussed this with others I know who haveworked with schizophrenic people before - it seems in the psychological health sector there is an extremely negative view of people with these problems.

How many people here know about this sort of discrimination? I am curious as I have only found out about the discrimination by staff in the psychological health sector relatively recently (in the past year or so).

What is to be done?

[hoopla]

writing an essay on anti-psychiatry at the mo. i won't be very good, but i can post up in, 3 weeks? its up to others...

i'm schiz, an o0lder brother of mine is schiz. its hard, just lack of status/money/always being bugged by mhs. i couldn't give a shit if the mhs think i'm scum tbh. fuck em, someone to talk to one you're paranoid, innit?

[Black Dagger]

There was an article on this general topic in the feb issue of Mutiny, people might find interesting..

I’M NOT CRAZY YOU’RE
THE ONE WHO’S CRAZY!!!!!!!
By Creative Insane


Hello people! This is just a short article on what is according to the media
a growing social problem; mental illness. Having experienced it for eight years
now I have become aware that it is rarely portrayed from the eyes of those who
have been labelled mentally ill and even then only when they follow the psychiatric
establishment’s point of view. Believe me it is a bit weirder and stranger than what
they may have you believe.

So what type of mental illness do I suffer from? Well it’s difficult to say as
my diagnosis and medication has changed many times over the years and this is not
uncommon. I started off being labelled as suffering from drug-induced psychosis
and now it is labelled as a mild case of schizophrenia (at its peak it was anything
but mild) although I did not discuss everything that was going through my head (I
know how judgemental mainstream society can be and would probably have been
taken too seriously). I just see it as a different way of looking at things, as well as
maintaining a sense of humour about it all. That is a major way of people fucking up,
taking it all too seriously, which I must admit I have done in the past. Schizophrenia,
by the way, has to do with hallucinations without being under the influence of drugs.
Most commonly aural, then visual and other senses as well, although this is less
common. Personally I experienced hallucinations with all five senses…

Schizophrenia is often seen by many people as having to do with having
multiple personalities, like who the fuck doesn’t? Even psychiatrists disagree with
this. It is similar to having an extremely bad, strong trip in which you never come
down. At its peak my illness, if you can call it that, was anything but mild. One
thing about life under psychosis is that from the second you wake up to when you
fall asleep it’s never dull but always a great adventure. Even if nothing is really
happening in your life or in the real world, a hell of a lot of shit is happening on the
mental plane. At its peak my psychosis was a weird mix of sex, spirituality and radical politics (although it is only our society that separates the three), with different groups and individuals competing for my headspace. It was often full of contradictions, if one was to think rationally that is, which is maybe where the misrepresentative description of Schizophrenia as multiple personality disorder comes in.

One sad thing I noticed while hanging out at community centres on open
days for those suffering mental illness is how much they tend to lack in self-esteem.
I guess it’s another sad indictment against our society. I suppose it’s because there is a lot of prejudice going on. People are taught to fear those with mental illness on
one hand and on the other to treat them with scorn and see them as an object to be
ridiculed. Truth is it could happen to anyone particularly those who use drugs. Mostly
it’s hereditary, although no-one in my family tree had a mental illness but then again
I’ve indulged in more illicit substances than anyone else in my family. I guess the
reason for the sufferer’s low self-esteem is that they no longer see themselves as
being normal, like that’s such a bad thing. I guess maybe it hits those with mainstream values more because now they are different and have always believed that being different in whatever sense is bad or wrong. All I can say is get over it. I am lucky I have had such a supportive family and network of friends however, which other people might not have. Most people cannot tell I have a mental illness because even if I do have an apparent hallucination I don’t over-react. It’s a trick you can learn with time. However, one friend did act with a certain amount of hostility towards me, but only because strangely enough she shared my hallucinations – weird but true.

Now I would like to talk about illegal drugs which personally I have a love-hate
relationship with. Since I have begun accidentally to collect friends with mental illness I can see the correlation between mental illness and drugs, although mental illness has been around longer than drug use amongst those of European descent and others. Obviously not every hardcore meth abuser gets psychosis either or for that matter every pothead. The psychiatrist, case-managers and everyone else in the health industry will do their best to scare you off drugs for life. I would like to offer another perspective but in the end if you have a mental breakdown it will ultimately be up to you as no-one else can live your life for you. I did have several months break from all drugs, while taking my medication, swearing never to indulge again and not even drinking much alcohol. However I drifted back into pot and then other substances only to work out when I needed a break when things got to hectic. Its true however, that drugs can bring back psychosis. For me at least it was more mild, possibly due to medication, as well as the fact I knew that what was not real was not to be trusted, so it was more easily handled and my mind kind of moved beyond it. I know all my friends with mental illness who use drugs have learnt how to handle it, so it is possible to continue using whatever you love, but there is a risk. Please be careful though, if you have had some form of psychosis, apart from all the other problems drugs can cause, you might have another one that can be far worse.

Now a word about the medical profession; my major gripe is that they want you to be a person who is not only completely normal in every way but to be completely free of any problems. The type of person that doesn’t exist anywhere. They keep on zeroing in on whatever does not make you completely happy or any of your concerns or worries, then try to prescribe you anti-depressants doing their best to make you a fully compliant member of society, even if you never have been and are quite happy not to be. The medication itself always has its side effects from sleeping 14 hours a night, putting on weight, not being able to ejaculate or at worst making the psychosis worst. There are many others. My advice is to keep on asking to change your medication until you find one your happy with, maybe threaten to stop taking it, they finally changed mine because I carried out this threat and according to others, although I’m not so sure, begun acting a bit weird. What many people do when they reach a balance is they wean themselves off the medication with the psychiatrist’s permission. Remember with most people mental illness is just a phase and something they outgrow. If you stop taking it yourself not only do you risk a relapse but what is worse is that you could be given a community treatment order whereby you get forced to take an injection every month which can be humiliating but also means it’s then very hard to legally travel or even move.

So why do most people believe their hallucinations after a time when it should be obvious you’re just crazy? Well it’s not simple to explain, particularly if you’re an overly sceptical type of person. Quite often it starts off with some form of psychic experiences, like being able to read someone’s thoughts, the knowledge that someone has read your thoughts, knowing what is about to happen and it does or quite a number of other genuine psychic experiences. The problem is one becomes gullible and believes everything – even if you think it’s bullshit at first, there is always a way to rationalize it out, so eventually it makes sense. It’s funny how you can believe the craziest things. There isn’t enough time to think things through as there is too much going on in one’s head. Don’t tell anyone in the medical profession that you don’t believe its all bullshit as they absolutely freak. One problem however, is that some people might believe your psychosis is based on fact as happened to me. I told a couple of people about it and word got back to me from an unconnected source what people believed about me and it was like ‘shit, so that’s how you see me’. Oh well nothing much you can do.

From: http://www.mpi-web.net/mutiny/

[Inithias]

How many people here know about this sort of discrimination?

those ppl are always discriminated, isn't it ?

[RevMARKSman]

OK. So, I am against labeling people with different ways of thinking (antisocial, avoidant, other "personality disorders") as disordered as long as they can justify their positions.

BUT - people with psychoses such as multiple personality disorder, OCD, and anxiety, especially if they want to get rid of them, seriously need help. I personally was completely resistent to getting medication for my OCD, which I thought was keeping me "safe" from germs, etc. I was not being rational about it. Some people simply need coercion to get over their irrationalities...because their irrationalities are self-perpetuating.

[hoopla]

rev: but the type of helping being offered to them?

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 03:47 am
rev: but the type of helping being offered to them?
Medication. No reason to just keep people locked up without actually trying to get rid of their psychosis. Therapy is entirely subjective. Medication has a much better track record.

[Sand Castle]

I've seen people discriminate against those with depression, anxiety, ADD, etc. They say those conditions don't exist and just make fun of the people who have them. They say they (people with the stated conditions) just want attention when really they have these conditions due to brain and neural problems. People can be complete dicks sometimes. They say I'm emo just because I'm sad and want comfort. I'm not emo, I really do hurt sometimes. If I was emo I would wear all black and talk about death all the time. blah blah blah.....

[Yazman]

Medication. No reason to just keep people locked up without actually trying to get rid of their psychosis. Therapy is entirely subjective. Medication has a much better track record.

Neither is truly effective. Medication has little bearing on issues of the mind and therapy is often ineffective anyway.

[RevMARKSman]

Medication has little bearing on issues of the mind

In the brain there is one particular hormone that regulates emotions and moods - seratonin. Usually, mental illnesses are caused by chemical imbalances such as a shortage of seratonin. Medication can work to fix this.

[LSD]

Remember with most people mental illness is just a phase and something they outgrow.

Yeah, people "outgrow" schizophrenia every day... :rolleyes:


One sad thing I noticed while hanging out at community centres on open days for those suffering mental illness is how much they tend to lack in self-esteem. I guess it’s another sad indictment against our society. I suppose it’s because there is a lot of prejudice going on. People are taught to fear those with mental illness onone hand and on the other to treat them with scorn and see them as an object to be ridiculed.

I think you've highlighted right there the critical social problem facing the mentally ill community, namely the issue of stigma. Even if you change the name, even if you give it a very antiseptic sounding label like "mental illness"; people are still scared shitless by the thought of being crazy.

Our minds are our identities and so losing that is a more fundamental injury than any physical illness. It also alientates us more than any physical handicap could.

Nobody "hates" the mentally ill in the sense of despising them or wanting them hurt, it's just what they represent is so deeply frightening.

We've all experienced pain so we can imagine what it might be like to be shot or to lose an arm. We may be wrong in our imaginings, but we can imagine nonetheless. Mental catastrophes, however, cannot be so easily simulated.

We can't "imagine" what it would be like to be anorexic or schizophrenic. And because of that, we have trouble empathizing and so instead of seeing the mentally ill as victims of disease, we see them as potential threats.

Some people react to that "threat" by avoiding, some by attacking, but it's the same fear at the root of it all; and it's a fear that, unfortunately, is not likely to go anywhere soon.


Neither is truly effective. Medication has little bearing on issues of the mind

How so?

As someone who's taken a fair share of medications, both legal and otherwise, I can tell you that they have an enormous "bearing" on the mind.

And why wouldn't they? After all, the notion that the brain cannot malfunction and/or that such malfunctions cannot be localized is an entirely absurd notion. It's deeply counter-materialist to assert that all behaviours and thoughts are nescessarily "choices" as it assumes that human consciesness has some sort of metaphysical "uniqueness" to it.

Well, it doesn't. Our "minds" are nothing more than electrical signals in our brains. Sometimes they fisfire, sometimes they are cross-wired. Now, we are nowhere near having a solid enough understanding to tackle these problems directly, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try.

Psychiatry isn't perfect by a longshot, but for the moment, it's easily the best we've got.


and therapy is often ineffective anyway.

Actually that's patently false.

Well, "often" is a very fuzzy term, so I suppose depending on how you're using it, you could be technically correct, but the clear implication of your statement is that that therapy is not, in general, an effective treatment and nothing could be further from the truth.

Obviously therapy doesn't always work, but it's by far the best option we've got at present.

That's primarily because, of course, our understanding of the human brain is rudimentary at best.

It seems quite idealist, however, to imagine that the human brain is "incapable" of getting sick or that illness cannot strike in cognitive-behavioural areas.

Yes, most known neurological diseases show wide effect, but that's because our current level of analsys is only capable of detecting wide effects. Perhaps in a few decades time, we'll hone our instruments and will be able to analyze with greater precision.

Besides, I think that it's artificial to say that biological and psychological are seperate issues. Our brains are phsysical organs. So regardless of where depression or anxiety comes from it has a biological manifestation.

Are SSRIs or tricyclics the best way to adjust that biology? Maybe not, but they're the best we've got now. And while some studies do show that they are marginally effective, others show that in select groups they can be reasonably effective.

As I see it, the only "problem" with psychopharmaceuticals is that the expense is crippling. That's not a problem with psychiatry, however, it's a problem with capitalism.

If Paxil or Zoloft or Prozac doesn't work for you, don't take it. But in a money-less society, there would be no harm in trying it out.

There is also some rather convincing evidence that a good deal of orthomolecular treatments are far more effective than standard psychopharmaceuticals or even "talk therapy".

But because there's no money to be made, no one's really interested in investigating.

Again, it's a problem of capitalism, not the "evils" of psychiatry.


I've seen people discriminate against those with depression, anxiety, ADD, etc. They say those conditions don't exist and just make fun of the people who have them.

Which, incidently, is also the postmodern approach to mental illness. Not the making fun of part, but the denying their existance part.

And, subjectivist blather aside, the former pretty much always assures the latter. 'Cause if mental illness isn't "real", why not make fun of them? After all, we rib each other for all sorts of things, if depression/anxiety/psychosis/whatever is just a "choice" or a "perspective", why not mock it as well?

Rejecting the biological reality of mental illness inevitably leads to the further disenfranchisement of the mentally ill. Period.

[fashbash]

As a student nurse studying Mental Health, I feel I should stand up for the NHS. We aim to provide 'patient-centred care', which essentially means tailoring the treatment a patient recieves to his or her circumstances, personality and cultural/religious background. Also, a patient's care need not neccessarily begin and end on a Mental Health ward. Social Workers, carers and psychiatric nurses can all help patients in their own homes, should the patient feel they need it.

Also, no one individual can section a person. That decision must be made by a group of people, including social workers, mental health nurses, psychiatric workers and other health and social care proffessionals. Every patient is treated individually. Whatever mistakes have been made in the past, today the patient is treated, not the symptoms. Treatment does not just mean electrotherapy (which is not as bad as it sounds) or drugs, it means discussion, therapy and positive changes to lifestyle.

[chicaoftherevolution707]

I suffer from major clinical depression with schizophrenic and obsessive compulsive symptoms as well as severe anxiety. I am on a lot of medication and people discriminate against me every day. Life is rough for someone with mental illnesses and the only thing that can be done is to have people not be so afraid of what they don't know and then the stigma will disappear.

[Sand Castle]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 06:29 am


I've seen people discriminate against those with depression, anxiety, ADD, etc. They say those conditions don't exist and just make fun of the people who have them.

Which, incidently, is also the postmodern approach to mental illness. Not the making fun of part, but the denying their existance part.

And, subjectivist blather aside, the former pretty much always assures the latter. 'Cause if mental illness isn't "real", why not make fun of them? After all, we rib each other for all sorts of things, if depression/anxiety/psychosis/whatever is just a "choice" or a "perspective", why not mock it as well?

Rejecting the biological reality of mental illness inevitably leads to the further disenfranchisement of the mentally ill. Period.
I figured that would be obvious. What are these bullies' (not the mentally ill people) problem? Do they think it makes them look tough when they pick on people like that?

[Inithias]

they think it's the survival of the fittest 8-)

[hoopla]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 10:21 pm
I suffer from major clinical depression with schizophrenic and obsessive compulsive symptoms as well as severe anxiety. I am on a lot of medication and people discriminate against me every day. Life is rough for someone with mental illnesses and the only thing that can be done is to have people not be so afraid of what they don't know and then the stigma will disappear.
cool man. i have been diagnosed with dep, anx (?) and shiozophreina. hows things at the mo, how long diagnosed, whats the boggest problems you have etc.

would be interesting to talk.

[coda]

The mental health profession is known to over-diagnose

[hoopla]

yeah... once you have 1 it doesn't really matter how many others they pinon you - just better ways to avoid work.

[hoopla]

i would have been turoughly annoyed it they hadn't added a diagnosis of depression/anxiety... its v confusing and upsetting not knowing why you feel so bad and having no way of dealing with it. very frustrating trying to commuicate that yes you really wouldlike some valium to make the shittiness go away now thankyou.

[hoopla]

apart from people with personality disorders... they suck ;)

[anti_fa01]

I have a form of autism ....which i think is a gift because i can see things most ppl can't But it also causes a learning disability for me....I Don't Learn the way most people do...I cant seem to find the help i need in order to make in threw college....i dont feel discriminated against but i do feel like left behind by the system......

[Social Greenman]

LSD wrote: Nobody "hates" the mentally ill in the sense of despising them or wanting them hurt, it's just what they represent is so deeply frightening. There are quite a few people who hate the "mentally ill" and mentally disabled desiring to kill them off. Then you have others who believe the mentally ill and mentally disabled person's family should take care of them without any sort of public insurance or institutions to help.

Now, there is a better attitude in existence here on this forum. At least I would like to think so. Despite the control freaks there are those here who have a genuine concern for people right down to those who are disavantaged. That gives me some hope that the future society won't be authoritarian.

[hoopla]

I feel very strongly, and am very sure at the moment, that communism could not be really good unless all medical treatment were to be voluntary. its just not right!

[LSD]

There are quite a few people who hate the "mentally ill" and mentally disabled desiring to kill them off.

Really? So... where are these people? Cause I've got to tell you, I've been working in this field for a while now and I haven't met 'em.

I know a lot of people were scared of the mentally ill and a lot of people who are disturbed by the mentally ill. I know many people honestly hate them in the sense of hating him personally, in the sense of wanting to hurt them personally.

I mean yeah there're psychos out there, who, I suppose, may want to hurts people who are mentally ill, but you're talking about ,aybe one in 10 million. Certainly they're not significant in a discussion on the status of psychological medicine.

And my point regarding the general population definitely still stands


Then you have others who believe the mentally ill and mentally disabled person's family should take care of them without any sort of public insurance or institutions to help.

For the most part, the people who believe in that sort of thing do so for ideological or political reasons. It certainly isn't a personal thing.

[StealthyCat]

I've been dx'd with major depression, various anxiety disorders, and used to have anorexia nervosa. There is little that bothers me more than people who have never experienced severe mental health issues telling me that psychiatric medication is a form of social control, or that depression or psychosis are merely reflective of 'alternative ways of looking at the world'. Being unable to get out of bed due to depression is miserable, and climbing the walls with anxiety are miserable experiences, and I am yet to meet a depressed or anxious person who wishes to maintain their condition. Certain medications are helpful to certain populations, as has been mentioned - the major problem, I think, is the fact that stigmatisation and anti-psychiatry discourage people from seeking treatments that *may* help.

I completely agree that it is ludicrous to suggest that neurons cannot 'misfire' in the same way that any other cell can. The problem is that so many people, including atheists, sometimes, have this notion of a 'higher consciousness', when in fact our experience of the world is a result of chemical and electrical signals.

I'm on the fence with regard to involuntary treatment. If someone is at risk for severely injuring themselves, for example, then perhaps they should be prevented from doing so. Plenty of people with eating disorders resist treatment, and die as a result. Perhaps allowing people to die due to neurological misfiring is as much a human rights violation as involuntary treatment.