Atheism

[anarhosocijalist]

How many of you people are atheists? And why Marxism-Leninism so strongly oposes idea of supreme being, and violently crushes any form of religon? ? ?
I think that they want to give more confidence to mankind by saying: We dont need no God. I am personaly against that kind of violence.

[Marxist1848]

i am an athiest. They oppose the fact of a supreme being for the sole purpose of clearing the publics head of the little invisibe man in the sky...this way dismounting religion from reign and having a population that devotes itself to SOCIETY and ECONOMICS and ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES other than a mystical character.

[canikickit]

my head is messed up. I am an atheist in some ways.....its too difficult to explain right now.....later maybe...

[komsomol]

I am an Athiest, but i wouldnt percecute theists, just mock them for fun. I am that way, I think they are funny.

[Anonymous]

i am atheist yet some of my family are devoted christian! and i make fun of them, yet its not my intencion of taking theyr beliefs! but i always criticise theyr religion!

[Mazdak]

Lol, you all know how religious i am.

[Sasafrás]

How can you people be atheists? I'm a strong believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and I worship Him every day. I make it my duty to go out and preach the gospel of God on a daily basis to everyone I see. I hand out tracts and give people Bibles all the time... All you people who aren't believers are going to fry in hell like an egg in Death Valley.







No, I'm just kidding. I'm agnostic. :)

[Mazdak]

I was about to say...... wow. Until that last line, i was going to flame you. You sounded so convincing. congratualitions. You can impersonate fundamentalists.

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from Mazdak on 4:11 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
You can impersonate fundamentalists.Is that considered a talent?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 6:53 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
i am an athiest. They oppose the fact of a supreme being for the sole purpose of clearing the publics head of the little invisibe man in the sky...this way dismounting religion from reign and having a population that devotes itself to SOCIETY and ECONOMICS and ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES other than a mystical character.



you know you never did reply to me on that logic you wanted me to post.



I'm asking why you make fun of other people's beliefs?

If they try to force them on you then do it.

But if I am talking to you and somehow you learn that I believe in God.

Why would you mock me?

If I'm not forcing it on you and I'm not continually bringing the topic up what point do you have for mocking me?

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 10:36 pm on Aug. 28, 2002)

[Michael De Panama]

I'm agnostic too.

[canikickit]

I believe in God and Jesus and all that shit.

I think that God, in fact I know that God exists on this earth, because when somebody you know goes to mass, and they pray, who are they praying to? God! You see where I'm coming from, God exists as an entity, whether it is this omnipitent diety that people think I don't know but I know he exists. Just not for me.

God exists because God effects you, like it or not.

Let us imagine an atheist is killed by an Islamic extremist, no let's say a Buddhist extremist for the sake of originality, well in this case Buddha has had a direct influence on that persons life.
Anybody who was in New York around this time last year also has been diretly influenced by Allah. If my Mother was killed in a car crash on the way home from Mass....etc., etc., etc. you get the picture....

y'know

another thing, I think that there is power in religion and the Bible is full of little nuggets of wisdom, anybody who has appreciated the lyrics of more than a few Bob Marley songs can attest to that. So maybe this is God. I think God exists but only on this earth. I think when you are dead, you are dead; y'know ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

I also think the idea of prayer and organised Religion is bullshit, but only for me, for other people to involve them selves in the likes of that is a good thing. Unless they don't know any better.
I'm also very full of shit. I think every contradicts themselves many, many times...

I bet no one responds to this, everyone always ignores me. I blame Jesus.

[anti machine]

God is either dead or evil. THe problem w/ christianity is the belief that God is loving, that it was necessary for him to take on human form and die. A loving god would not have created this place, nor would he allow his "beloved" to go to Hell. It is all bullshit propaganda used as a tool of oppression.

Surprisingly, my father is a United Methodist minister. I am steeped in theology and the bible-i had no choice. BUt because I have an understanding, a firm grip on the claims of this religion, I am most certain athiesm is the only truth.

[Anonymous]

strang but the mongols have always been atheists and they still exist, and many other christian/pagan/islamic etc civilizations disapeard! So thsi is just one among many other pratical exemples that religion is just bulshit!

[canikickit]

Quote: from the anarchist on 1:48 am on Aug. 29, 2002
strang but the mongols have always been atheists and they still exist, and many other christian/pagan/islamic etc civilizations disapeard! So thsi is just one among many other pratical exemples that religion is just bulshit!

that is not proof at all.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from anti machine on 1:38 am on Aug. 29, 2002
God is either dead or evil. THe problem w/ christianity is the belief that God is loving, that it was necessary for him to take on human form and die. A loving god would not have created this place, nor would he allow his "beloved" to go to Hell. It is all bullshit propaganda used as a tool of oppression.

Surprisingly, my father is a United Methodist minister. I am steeped in theology and the bible-i had no choice. BUt because I have an understanding, a firm grip on the claims of this religion, I am most certain athiesm is the only truth.



your claims of opression are against people not religion.

Second who said that because one believes in the same God as Chrisitanity we believe that Jesus died for our sins?

God's word has been corrupted be humans.

Not to mention that God created this world out of love, but humans make there own choices.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from the anarchist on 1:48 am on Aug. 29, 2002
strang but the mongols have always been atheists and they still exist, and many other christian/pagan/islamic etc civilizations disapeard! So thsi is just one among many other pratical exemples that religion is just bulshit!


The mongols also wered skilled warriors and conqured much of Asia and part of Europe.

Yet the religions remained.

Not to mention the Mongol empire was over in about 400 years.

Also the races that are affiliated with such religions still exist

[Mazdak]

So the religious debate goes from one board to the next, does it not? The Mongols were eventually absorbed into Muslim Culture, however, they were for the most part Nestorian Christians. So they weren't atheists, they just didnt make a big fuss over religion.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 5:33 pm on Aug. 29, 2002
So the religious debate goes from one board to the next, does it not? The Mongols were eventually absorbed into Muslim Culture, however, they were for the most part Nestorian Christians. So they weren't atheists, they just didnt make a big fuss over religion.

fine no more religous debate.

And I agree with Mazdak....as odd as that sounds on the Mongol issue.

See mazdak not everyone forces religion down peoples throats or makes such a big deal of it

[Mazdak]

Yes and guess what happened to the mongols? After converting to Islam, they fiercly persecuted anyone not of their religion.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 10:41 pm on Aug. 29, 2002
Yes and guess what happened to the mongols? After converting to Islam, they fiercly persecuted anyone not of their religion.


well mazdak you want to kill or brainwash anyone not atheist so I wouldn't argue that point

[Mazdak]

Islam=Religion
Religion+ enlightenment=0

Atheism + enlightenment=perfect.
So i justify it.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 10:58 pm on Aug. 29, 2002
Islam=Religion
Religion+ enlightenment=0

Atheism + enlightenment=perfect.
So i justify it.

enlighenment is enlightenment

not to mention that you defenitly aren't enlightened and you aren't perfect it is impossible for any human to be perfect

by the way you left out one part


Atheism=Arrogance,

[canikickit]

atheism = arrogance

That's bullshit.
I don't think not believing in a supreme being means you think you are superior to people.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from canikickit on 11:05 pm on Aug. 29, 2002

atheism = arrogance

That's bullshit.
I don't think not believing in a supreme being means you think you are superior to people.


my fault

Mazdak's Atheism=arrogance


Alot of the atheists here are arrogant about their belief though.

[BOZG]

Atheist aswell. Until someone proves to me that god exists than I refuse to believe in it. And even if someone can prove to me that god exists, which I sincerely doubt, I refust to dedicate my life to anyone or anything.



Alot of the atheists here are arrogant about their belief though.

I find that people who believe in religion are much more intolerant of atheists than atheists to believers.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 11:29 pm on Aug. 29, 2002
Atheist aswell. Until someone proves to me that god exists than I refuse to believe in it. And even if someone can prove to me that god exists, which I sincerely doubt, I refust to dedicate my life to anyone or anything.



Alot of the atheists here are arrogant about their belief though.

I find that people who believe in religion are much more intolerant of atheists than atheists to believers.

I meant on this forum.

But the problem is that both sides are at fault

Religous people often act as if they must do everything in their power to convert an atheist wether or not the atheist wants to hear this all the time.

And Atheist often treat us like we are stupid and they are so much superior to us.

Religous people wont take no for an answer

and athiest act superior

its not always this way but the extreemes on both sides always act this way

[Nateddi]

mazdaks ideas for an atheist theocracy is fucking bullshit. he is a fucking opportunist who has no respect for anyone that opposes him, and a 14 year old! i tend to lean conservative on many issues, but I hate the utter arrogance of mazdak. he does not care about the working class, just about authoritarianism.

my agnostism is a personal belief, i respect conservative [non-extremist] religious practices 100%

[Anonymous]

Alot of the atheists here are arrogant about their belief though.
almost all religions (including christianism) preach taht non-belivers go to hell and we are arrogants?

[canikickit]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 11:14 pm on Aug. 29, 2002


my fault

Mazdak's Atheism=arrogance


Alot of the atheists here are arrogant about their belief though.


no its cool.
I see exactly where you are coming from.

But......


almost all religions (including christianity) preach that non-belivers go to hell and we are arrogant?

.....this is also true, it does work both ways.

[ratm545]

i do believe in God, but i do think that believers are worse then atheists, atheists don't have anything to put in your face, they believe in nothing, so what can they go around trying to convert us too, if i was an atheist i wouldn't give a fuck about believers, no skin off their back, in their point of view we're all just wasting our time

[Son of Scargill]

http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/.Pictures/undergod.jpg

(Edited by Son of Scargill at 10:03 am on Aug. 30, 2002)

[Mazdak]

Nateddi you shithead,
1. Atheist theocracy? Thats a new term considering a theocracy tends to be religious. and shut the fuck up about my age. I am 15. You, as i know, are 16. wow. So let me get this straight, next year I am usddenly going to change my views.

Not authoritarianism. Religion is a wrong and atheism isnt arrgoance.

to say religon keeps order now is bullshit too
1. Do atheists blow up abortion clinics? No
2. i never saw an atheist show up at a gay funeral with signs that say "God hates fags." Have you?

Your ideas that we can all live together in peace are stupid. The only way the ignorant masses will actaully unite is if they feel they are uniting with people similar to them. Without nationalism and religion, you have a united world that stands little chance of dividing. But don't take my word for it. Why not see what marx had to say about religion?

Atheists have to be arrogant. That SOB Bush sr. said we weren't true citizens of this coutnry.

[PunkRawker677]

"Religion is a wrong and atheism isnt arrgoance. "

I am an Athiest, But why is it that most athiests think that religion is ONLY evil? Religion has done good. It instills morals in people, it gives a sense of right and wrong. Religion is not evil, just some religous fanatics.

"1. Do atheists blow up abortion clinics? No "

But an Extremist athiest (the opposite of a religous fanatic) could blow up a church or mosque and kill massive amounts of people. Not all religous people go around blowing shit up.

"2. i never saw an atheist show up at a gay funeral with signs that say "God hates fags." Have you? "

Again, this is just a circumstance. NOT ALL religous people do this.

[Conghaileach]

What's the difference between religion and superstition?

[Nateddi]

>>1. Atheist theocracy? Thats a new term considering a theocracy tends to be religious.

A theocracy is a government that imposes one [religious] belief and bans all others. You are proposing making Atheism the official religious belief and banning all others. Khomeni imposed Islam as the only legal religious belief and banned all others, you propose the exact same system, Atheism and nothing else.


>>and shut the fuck up about my age. I am 15. You, as i know, are 16. wow. So let me get this straight, next year I am usddenly going to change my views.

My point was that you have made little or no attempts to criticize capitalism, to support workers struggle, and so forth. All your meaningful posts were those advocating for despotic government and control over personal beliefs. Such is very uncommon for a young person discovering their views. It seems you have the immature idealist emulation to have the society model after you, and have those that do not wish to participate to be “dealt with”.


>>Religion is a wrong

Blatant opinion. There is nothing wrong with religion as long as it is not extremist. I am myself an agnostic person, I tend not to believe in god. A conservative [as in non-extremist] faith is nonetheless healthy.


>>and atheism isnt arrgoance.

I’ve never claimed that it was arrogance. I am a bit of an atheist myself. What I did claim was that your theocratic ideas for an atheist government controlling people’s personal beliefs is arrogant.


>>to say religon keeps order now is bullshit too

I’m a bit confused on what your point is. Religious freedom keeps order by allowing people to believe as they wish, I agree with that.


>>1. Do atheists blow up abortion clinics? No

Extremists blow up shit. Does every one of the two billion Christians on this earth blow up clinics? No they don’t. You say that religious people are terrorists based on a few bombs, I can make a better case stating that Arabs are terrorists based on the more common suicide bombings. I do not believe either of these mindless assertions is true of course.


>>2. i never saw an atheist show up at a gay funeral with signs that say "God hates fags." Have you?

Your utter rhetoric is getting on my nerves mazdak, these arguments are simply insensate. A minority of people with religious convictions are extremists, as in your examples. However, your solution is to ban the whole religion, giving the state the authority to control a personal belief. I will not support that.

Considering I am myself agnostic, I agree with a lot of your critiques of religion. My fight is however with your arrogant idea of persecuting those that wish to practice a faith.


>>Your ideas that we can all live together in peace are stupid.

ROFL

You have no idea what my views are so don’t try to pretend that you do. I am not an Anarchist, I am not the least bit libertarian.


>>The only way the ignorant masses will actaully unite is if they feel they are uniting with people similar to them.

Ahem mazdak. If they wish to unite, they shall do it along the basis of their class. They will simply ignore their personal beliefs in their struggle for the simple reason that the beliefs are personal.

>>without nationalism and religion, you have a united world that stands little chance of dividing.

Great idea I am in agreement with. If people become class conscious they will simply overcome any possible bigotry toward each other that they may have had. Forced atheism isn’t the solution. Remember the Christian socialist Sandinistas? Remember that your hero Fidel is a catholic, and even invited Pope John Paul II to Cuba in 98 (who simply must be an abortion clinic bomber).


>> But don't take my word for it. Why not see what marx had to say about religion?

ROFL

I actually read Marx. I know of his whole philosophy on religion, and I am more or less a believer in what he wrote on it. Did you know Marx was also an Anti-Semite (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/)? If you are so dogmatic about putting into practice all of Marx’s personal views, I suggest you set up concentration camps to solve the Jewish Question.


>>Atheists have to be arrogant. That SOB Bush sr. said we weren't true citizens of this coutnry.

LOL. You act as if you are talking to a right-winger. Nevertheless i’ve got to hand it to Bush. He actually spoke his mind. He simply spoke his opinion on atheists, he didn’t even purge them. Bush is a puppy dog compared what you would do to those that do not share your faith.

(Edited by Nateddi at 9:33 pm on Aug. 30, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from the anarchist on 1:42 am on Aug. 30, 2002

Alot of the atheists here are arrogant about their belief though.
almost all religions (including christianism) preach taht non-belivers go to hell and we are arrogants?


I believe in God and I don't believe that everyone who isn't Christian will go to hell.

I believe as long as you were a good person you will go to heaven.

[Iyana]

because then u would be an idealist. which is strictly religions. comapred to dialectical materialism which is philosophy and science in one !
u need a reason behind everythng not a creator. thats were science comes ina nd provs religions wrong.


Quote: from anarhosocijalist on 11:44 am on Aug. 28, 2002
How many of you people are atheists? And why Marxism-Leninism so strongly oposes idea of supreme being, and violently crushes any form of religon? ? ?
I think that they want to give more confidence to mankind by saying: We dont need no God. I am personaly against that kind of violence.

[Nateddi]

Welcome to the board Iyana.

Âû ãîâîðèòå ïî-ðóññêè?

[Mazdak]

You realize you could have found out that information about marx being an anti semite right from Rhys at the Phora.

Immature? Try Realistic. As long as religion exist, there is extreme diversity and disunity. Atheism isnt a religion wtherefore you can't call it theocratic. I know waht a theocracy is and if they are so immature, how come they worked out so well for Vlad the Impaler? I do not think killing people for insignificant things is necessary, and i never said i would purge anyone. I would simply try to educate the youngsters.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Iyana on 12:41 am on Aug. 31, 2002
because then u would be an idealist. which is strictly religions. comapred to dialectical materialism which is philosophy and science in one !
u need a reason behind everythng not a creator. thats were science comes ina nd provs religions wrong.


Quote: from anarhosocijalist on 11:44 am on Aug. 28, 2002
How many of you people are atheists? And why Marxism-Leninism so strongly oposes idea of supreme being, and violently crushes any form of religon? ? ?
I think that they want to give more confidence to mankind by saying: We dont need no God. I am personaly against that kind of violence.




proves religion wrong? You guys still can't prove that God doesn't exist but I do have logic as to why there is a possibility that God exists

the only way that the Universe at its core begining is of cause and efect would be an oscilatting universe.

IE. Big Bang, expand, expand, expand, Contract, contract, coontract, Big Crunch, Big Bang, expand, expand, expand, contract, contract, contract, Big Crunch, Big Bang.

However ask most physicists and they will tell you the theory of a contracting or oscialting universe isn't very likely.

The universe doesn't and will not have enough matter to contract on its self.

And even if it did the weight of the universe is infinetly spread out.

The weight isn't held in a center location. It expands from the outside even further.

Now if it sread from the center out then the cause and effect of the universe would be complete.

However since their is no possible way for the universe to contract then it can't oscillate.

Then the big bang had to be caused by some other force. The matter had to be created some other way.

The matter cannot be infinite, because there is no other possibility for how the matter came into existence.

Explosions don't happen for no reason at all. And the only possibility I can come up with is that deep with in the matter a reaction occured when one type of matter came in contact with another.

But that only suggest how the explosion occurd but there is no explation of how the matter came into being.

Not to mention how can matter so tiny or large (depend on what stage of the universe you look at) exist within its self?

It has to reside insome thing. THen you must ask your self what does this matter that the Universe resides in, where does it reside.

There always must be something, and to suggest that it resides with in its self is a concept that promotes GOd.

No matter which way you turn the concepts have some concept that is similar to that of God.

God: exists within himself

God: is infinite, has no begining or no end.

Isn't that really the concept of infinity? People assume infinity just means that the numbers continue on forever.

But that isn't just it. Numbers continue on forever negativley also.

No begining or no end= God.

THe highest number you can think of there is also a negative equivilant.

However numbers are a concept, they can continue on forever and ever forwards and backwards.

Matter however can't. Matter does not just exist for the sake of existing it is cause and effect.

Only some that needs no cause and effect GOd, another concept can create something that needs cause and effect.

Before the concepts of numbers was created it was still infinite.

Before we knew the Earth revolved around the sun, the earth still revolved around the sun didn't it?

So how can an infinite concept like God be so farfetched?

Did we need to believe in him for him to exist if he truly is infinite?

And did we need to create numbers for them to be infinite?

Matter is only partially infinite. It needs a starting point. Shown in the diagram.
God(A concept)
Has no Starting point, or needs of one.
<------------------------------------------------------------------->
Numbers(A concept)
Continues on in either direction forever.
<------------------------------------------------------------------->

Universe(Matter)
While the universe expands in all directions that is only because it is three dimensional. It still has a center which does not expand, the center is the same as it was when the universe was small. Since it is matter it cannot continue infinetly in all forms. Matter cannot contract and expand at the same time.
o---------------------------------------->


To be infinite you must be able to expand and contract at the same time, endless.

Matter can not Expand and contract at the same time its impossible.

The universe cannot exist within its self then.

The universe isn't infinite, it was created at its core begining.


If the universe can not exist and not exist how can it be infinite?

Matter can not always be, because mattre must be created.

All matter in the universe is cause and effect.

We know the effect but science still can't prove the cause.

it is impossible to prove a cause because for matter to be infinite you would be using somewhat of speculation which is one of the reasons people don't like the idea of God.

because it is specualtion (nowdays).

Matter cannot reside within its self. Something cannot be produced from nothing.

All existence is cause and effect.

Matter cannot simply be for the sake of being.

There must be a cause.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:52 am on Aug. 31, 2002
You realize you could have found out that information about marx being an anti semite right from Rhys at the Phora.

Immature? Try Realistic. As long as religion exist, there is extreme diversity and disunity. Atheism isnt a religion wtherefore you can't call it theocratic. I know waht a theocracy is and if they are so immature, how come they worked out so well for Vlad the Impaler? I do not think killing people for insignificant things is necessary, and i never said i would purge anyone. I would simply try to educate the youngsters.


so your saying there should be no diversity?

We should all be the same?

And what should we all be Mazdak.

Blonde Hair, blue eyes, white skin.

You gonna kill anyone different?

Cuz different=diversity

[Nateddi]

>>You realize you could have found out that information about marx being an anti semite right from Rhys at the Phora.

I was the one who converted Rhys from Nazism to National Bolshevism. He is basically the same person with the same views, so its not the best success, but nonetheless it was me. I knew of the Jewish Question long before Rhys did, because I actually read Marx. Are you denying that he wrote such a work or something? Whats the point?

You are not a dictator yet, you can’t tell me what I believe or where I got my information from. For the second time you “assumed” completely wrong about me.


>>Immature? Try Realistic. As long as religion exist, there is extreme diversity and disunity.

Well I guess all the examples I gave you of religion and socialism mutually coexisting, which I am doubtful you have read, surely prove your point.


>>Atheism isnt a religion wtherefore you can't call it theocratic.

Why do you come back with the same old refuted arguments?? I’ve already stated that if you impose a certain religious belief (of which Atheism is a religious belief of no god), you are turning a country into a theocracy.


>>I know waht a theocracy is and if they are so immature, how come they worked out so well for Vlad the Impaler?

I called your ideas of atheist-only government immature, I couldn’t care less for Vlad. I would not wish to live in walachia during his time. Many practices ‘work’, yet they are wrong, slavery and capitalism just to name a couple.


>>I do not think killing people for insignificant things is necessary, and i never said i would purge anyone. I would simply try to educate the youngsters.

You have mentioned numerous times that you wish to outlaw religion. Furthermore, the youngsters you are trying to ‘educate’ are already socialists they will still unite with anyone who is not of their faith. This only proves my point (that is, if you read it).

I don’t know if I should continue doing this, considering you ignored the bulk of my last post.

[Reuben]

I am an athesist,.

I do see religion as a reactionary force, but I do not see that the liberalisation of Cuban laws on the church having a disastrous effect on their society

[Nateddi]

exactly reuben.

i am also a tolerant agnostic/atheist; and i do not wish for the whole society to be imposed atheism as the official religious belief.

[Vide]

By Mazdak on The Phora:

Re: Religion should be banned

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mazdak
Religion is not just the opiate of the people, it is the peoples oppressor as well. Like nationalism, it divides humanity. It holds back progress and tries to have people cling to obsolete and ancient traditions. It should be done away with. Why have obsolete conversations on something as relevant as the tooth fairy or Santa Claus? We might as well start debating the proofs of hercules' existance..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmm.. let's see. Religion is somehow the people's oppressor yet it's a lifestyle they choose of themselves because they so desire it. Of course, your fascist policies couldn't possibly be the people's oppressor because they only strip people of their right to free thought, expression, belief, speech, assembly, and association!

Why debate the existence of God, or of any mythological figure? Why debate anything that cannot be proven? We should abolish philosophy and art as well, since these abstracts are irrelevant in the world of dialectical materialism. We must ban music, burn books, retool education so that only menial labour skills are taught. We shall have no culture, no traditions, no practices. We shall be like those in Plato's myth of the cave (except we won't know about that of course), living in externally imposed intellectual ignomy and misery. All the world shall know is the glorious party line, irrevocably seduced by Huxleyian SOMA until a few of them start ominously chanting "DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER" in their sleep and your little house of cards topples.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i wouldn't ban all religon straight away. first i would make them targets of political attacks in the media to turn the people against religion. then i would maybe hire thugs to burn synagogues or something. then mosques, and finally churches. then i would ban organised religion and possibly purge religious leaders.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


How quaint. All I can do here is point out how decadent you must feel every day to be granted the freedom by your government to espouse such tripe day after day. If Blair decided to do the same to Communists in Britain tomorrow, I'd feel scant sympathy for your ilk.

[Ymir]

Where've you been Vide? I haven't seen you in a long time.

And on with the topic...


Religion is somehow the people's oppressor yet it's a lifestyle they choose of themselves because they so desire it.

That is very illogical of you, Vide. People are usually born into a religion. My father is an atheist, so I became an atheist. His views were instilled into me. Had my parents both been something else, I would have grown up with different religious beliefs.
I am not saying that children do not control their
own ideals and views on life, but there is a great deal of peer pressure and parental guidance involved.

So in a nutshell, religion is not always choice.

[Nateddi]

Ymir,

I do not see how that is a justification of forced state-controlled atheism. Vide does a good job of explaining how it is a hypocritical alternative.

[Ymir]

Nateddi, I am not justifying forced atheism I am just pointing out the problem in Vide's statement.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Ymir on 4:21 am on Aug. 31, 2002
Where've you been Vide? I haven't seen you in a long time.

And on with the topic...


Religion is somehow the people's oppressor yet it's a lifestyle they choose of themselves because they so desire it.

That is very illogical of you, Vide. People are usually born into a religion. My father is an atheist, so I became an atheist. His views were instilled into me. Had my parents both been something else, I would have grown up with different religious beliefs.
I am not saying that children do not control their
own ideals and views on life, but there is a great deal of peer pressure and parental guidance involved.

So in a nutshell, religion is not always choice.


It is only not choice when someone doesn't think for themself.

If you grow up in an openminded environment then its all up to you.

Are you atheist becasue your father is?

So really it isn't your belief system

[Mazdak]

You see, people at the Phora are far more receptive of authoritarian ideas so i don't have to downplay my views in the least. But now that i know Malte has his secret police like Vide aftrer me i'll have to slip into the shadows again.


Anyway, atheism inst religion. So no matter how much you try to think it is, it isn't.


And lardlad, how come i knew something stupid like that would be typed somewhere along the line? What do people's physical appearance have to do with their religious beliefs?

[deadpool 52]

What is the correlation between races choosing generally one religion and what are we talking about now?

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from Son of Scargill on 4:01 am on Aug. 30, 2002
http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/.Pictures/undergod.jpgAH! That's scary! :( Make it stop, please!!

[Nateddi]

>>You see, people at the Phora are far more receptive of authoritarian ideas so i don't have to downplay my views in the least.

Please do. If you actually have a bearing of confidence in your views, do not downplay them. Lack of self confidence is a horrible excuse for avoiding poignant remarks.


>>But now that i know Malte has his secret police like Vide aftrer me i'll have to slip into the shadows again.

ROFL

Lets see:
- first you “assumed” incorrectly that I believe the idea that “we can all live together in peace”.
- subsequently you “assumed” incorrectly that I “could have found out that information about marx being an anti semite right from Rhys”
- in a different thread (about evolution), you “assumed” incorrectly that I was a creationist. I corrected moskitto’s definition of evolution with a more scientific definition because he had a fallacy in his.
- now you are “assuming” that the evil dictator malte with his secret police is sending vide after you. LOL

Vide is Potyondi from the phora. I’ve been talking to him on Yahoo about your dumbfounded ideas. This thread came up in the discussion, I gave him a link, he decided to post. Surprise surprise, Mazdak’s assumption is wrong again.

I am wondering, when will Mazdak stop inventing events that benefit him; he isn’t the Stalin-controlled soviet education curriculum quite yet.


>>Anyway, atheism inst religion. So no matter how much you try to think it is, it isn't.

Atheism is a religious belief that denies the existence of a god or gods. It is a personal view on faith. Some people have a personal view of believing in Jesus as a Savior. Others believe in Mohammed as a prophet of Allah. Others believe in nature as a God. It is all variant. As an atheist, you simply do not believe in a God. Western democracies are not atheist, they simply acknowledge the fact that it is not up to the state to control your faith. You wish to take that freedom away by controlling what people believe in.


Mazdak is two for two in taking posts; ignoring the bulk of them, and responding with an annoyingly already refuted argument. You win.

http://potyondi.netfirms.com/winnar.jpg

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:14 am on Sep. 1, 2002
You see, people at the Phora are far more receptive of authoritarian ideas so i don't have to downplay my views in the least. But now that i know Malte has his secret police like Vide aftrer me i'll have to slip into the shadows again.


Anyway, atheism inst religion. So no matter how much you try to think it is, it isn't.


And lardlad, how come i knew something stupid like that would be typed somewhere along the line? What do people's physical appearance have to do with their religious beliefs?


I was reffering to your anti diversity position not to religion.

Because you said that religion creats divirsity and ununity.

You obvioulsy hate religion and saying diversity is a product of religion means you hate religion.

So I was asking since you hate diversity how were you going to get rid of it.

Are you going to kill anyone of nuter anyone not fitting in your perfect image of humans?

[canikickit]

Congratulations Mazdak.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Nateddi on 1:06 am on Sep. 1, 2002
Some people have a personal view of believing in Jesus as a Savior. Others believe in Mohammed as a prophet of Allah.

Technically Muslims also believe that Jesus was the messiah just not the son of God.

Its actually pretty interesting that the two religions have so much in common yet everyone wants to be seperate.


But I'm betting you could give less than a rat's shit about this

[Mazdak]

Nateddi, i meant that i had to downplay them as not to get banned. I am quite confident about most of my views.

I could have assumed that Vide and poytondi or whatever his name is are the same person, but i didn't. Because i didnt really care.

I was exaggerrating about the secret police thing, goddammit i can't believe you didnt see it.

I didn't assume you thought we could live together, but for someone who claims to be authoritarian, you seem to defend the liberals far too much.

Religion involves faith, atheism doesn't.
http://members.aol.com/nogodhere/christianbs.html

Lardlad- i am anti diversity only when the diversity is a problem. Diversity can cuase disunity and that is one of the most important aspects of maintaining the world's state of peace. (this is after revolution and socialism is in place). Extreme diversity leads to racism, nationalism and war. I don't mind everyone's individuality, but like i said even if not now, eventually, religion will cause problems. Better to get rid of the problem sooner then later when it becomes uncontrollable.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 5:26 pm on Sep. 1, 2002
Nateddi, i meant that i had to downplay them as not to get banned. I am quite confident about most of my views.

I could have assumed that Vide and poytondi or whatever his name is are the same person, but i didn't. Because i didnt really care.

I was exaggerrating about the secret police thing, goddammit i can't believe you didnt see it.

I didn't assume you thought we could live together, but for someone who claims to be authoritarian, you seem to defend the liberals far too much.

Religion involves faith, atheism doesn't.
http://members.aol.com/nogodhere/christianbs.html

Lardlad- i am anti diversity only when the diversity is a problem. Diversity can cuase disunity and that is one of the most important aspects of maintaining the world's state of peace. (this is after revolution and socialism is in place). Extreme diversity leads to racism, nationalism and war. I don't mind everyone's individuality, but like i said even if not now, eventually, religion will cause problems. Better to get rid of the problem sooner then later when it becomes uncontrollable.


religion has been in the world since the time of the Neanderthals

I think its done all the damage it can.

Its when people discriminate that there is a problem.

When you push someone they are gonna push back...you should think more carefully about your beliefs

[canikickit]

I think its done all the damage it can.

Definitely not. But its not religion that causes the problems its people who feel their view is right, and everyone else's is wrong, like our good friend Mazdak here...

Mazdak:

I don't mind everyone's individuality

Then why don't you accept people's individuality, by acknowledging their right to live their lives as they see fit?


Extreme diversity leads to racism, nationalism and war.

No, extreme stupidity leads to racism. Nationalism and War have their good sides, but are not caused by "diversity"...at least not directly.

They are indirectly caused by it, so why try and destroy the indirect cause, when it makes more sense to get rid of the direct causes?

(Edited by canikickit at 9:52 pm on Sep. 1, 2002)


(Edited by canikickit at 9:55 pm on Sep. 1, 2002)

[Nateddi]

>>Nateddi, i meant that i had to downplay them as not to get banned. I am quite confident about most of my views.

Che-Lives only bans two types of people: racialists and spammers. Spammers are obvious, racialism is simply a view too extreme for che-lives. Authoritarians are not banned. Yuriandropov isn’t banned, lenin isn’t [officially] banned, thine stalin was banned for being a racialist: he was tolerated for months until we found out that he considers himself a nazi as well as a communist.


>>I could have assumed that Vide and poytondi or whatever his name is are the same person, but i didn't. Because i didnt really care.

Your first suspicion was some anti-authoritarian figure who has some connection to malte. By the same logic I could very well assume that you are a spy for the CIA, but I don’t.


>>I was exaggerrating about the secret police thing, goddammit i can't believe you didnt see it.

I in fact understood that the comment about a “secret police” was deliberately fallacious; nevertheless it is obvious you assumed Vide was in some way connected to malte.


>>I didn't assume you thought we could live together

Quote: from Mazdak on 4:21 pm on Aug. 30, 2002

Your ideas that we can all live together in peace are stupid
I for one am noticing high levels of self-contradiction


>>but for someone who claims to be authoritarian, you seem to defend the liberals far too much.

Lets see, all political tests label you as the liberal.

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...um=22&topic=824 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=824)

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:44 am on Aug. 14, 2002
WTF

Economic Left/Right: -5.88
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -1.85

How Come i Always end up not authoritarian?! This test is retarded!
My most recent scores (of the last 1-2 months) on this test have been –8.82 / -0.30. I actually support morality in society, I can quote you opposing government control of morality. I’ve seen you scapegoating social problems on religion in this thread: justifying a ban on personal belief as a result of “God hates fags” incidents. This is a symptom of a typical center-left liberal who isn’t quite enlightened with the wrongs of capitalism. The only authoritarian aspect of your politics I have noticed was the support of a secret police and the banning of religion.


>>Religion involves faith, atheism doesn't.

This is overly obvious, your link was not necessary. Atheism is the belief that there is no higher power in the world. You wish to ban all other beliefs that assume there is a power. You have no respect for anybody’s personal thoughts and thought privacy. On the progressive scale, this is one step forward, two steps back. The problems that are created by state-imposed atheism are far greater than any negatives that religion may bring.

[Mazdak]

The political tests, as you have seen are retarded. Nateddi. I think we both know that, so your argument there is useless.

and as for your noticing my self contradiction, i dont see it anywhere in your paragraphs.

i never assumed vide "worked" for malte, goddammit you are even more mechanical/robotic then i am not to see my jest.

And nateddi, tahts right, you found me, i am a CIA agent. After apache failed to find your whereabouts, i was dispatched to "clean up" che lives.and if you didnt notice, as i bet you wont, i am sarcastic).

I dont think the government should control peoples individuality/ their sex lives (unless they have stds or are a threat)

[Nateddi]

>>The political tests, as you have seen are retarded. Nateddi. I think we both know that, so your argument there is useless.

“The political tests are retarded”?? This is a useless opinion, shared mainly by….. you. In any case, the political tests are equally retarded for us both. There is a common variable mazdak. This isn’t a case of you taking the retarded tests and myself taking the good tests. We took the same tests, we got different results on both of them.


>>and as for your noticing my self contradiction, i dont see it anywhere in your paragraphs.

Lets learn how to read.

Mazdak on Aug 30.:
Your ideas that we can all live together in peace are stupid

Mazdak on Sept 1 (referring to the when I debunked your Aug30 ‘live together’ post):
I didn't assume you thought we could live together

If you have any further doubts, its all in this thread, read it.


>>i never assumed vide "worked" for malte,

I’ve never said that he “worked” for anybody. I simply said that you assumed “Vide was in some way connected to malte”

I’ve already stated I was aware that you overreacted. This isn’t some extreme covert anti-mazdak conspiracy, however it seems to me (as I have stated in previous response), you do believe that malte was connected with the reappearance of malte.


>>goddammit you are even more mechanical/robotic then i am not to see my jest.

I try my best to get rid of your shit ideas, if it is the robotic behavior that had caused you to shift this thread from banning religion to mazdak doing personal attacks on me (this & last post), ill be more or less happy to see mazdak abandoned his beliefs.

I simply consider my style a great deal more honest. I leave nothing uncovered, therefore standing strong with my beliefs. Whereas your replies have been full of rhetoric, and ignored the bulk of my posts.


>>And nateddi, tahts right, you found me, i am a CIA agent. After apache failed to find your whereabouts, i was dispatched to "clean up" che lives.and if you didnt notice, as i bet you wont, i am sarcastic).

Mazdak, I highly suggest you learn to be patient and to read through the whole response instead of skimming. So I will post what I wrote again:

By the same logic I could very well assume that you are a spy for the CIA, but I don’t.

This is a ridicule of your logic, not my personal opinion. Any 10 year old that has patience to read through will notice that. Furthermore, I intentionally added “but I don’t” in the end, to prevent such bunk coming you in the riposte.


>>I dont think the government should control peoples individuality/ their sex lives (unless they have stds or are a threat)

Yet you believe that we should ban all religion. This is what the discussion was about when I joined, hence it is overly obvious that I was referring to religion when I stated “You have no respect for anybody’s personal thoughts and thought privacy”.

[Mazdak]

There is a difference betwen individuality and religion. I didnt think one could be this thickheaded.

And you for some reason still think i think vide is connected to malte. I dont. My god, i dont.

And you yourself complained about the political tests. And then you tried to my marks against me when you yourself said it was messed up. Now tell me how that is a valid argument on your part again? It isnt.

[Nateddi]

There is a difference betwen individuality and religion. I didnt think one could be this thickheaded.

LOL

Religion is a belief one chooses. It is an individual thought that varies from person to person. It is you the one who wants to take individuality out by imposing a collective thought doctrine by banning religion.

>>And you for some reason still think i think vide is connected to malte. I dont. My god, i dont.

That’s not what you said at first, but I am not going to call you a liar . Ill take your word for it.


>>And you yourself complained about the political tests.

Indeed correct, it’s a good observation. The Political Compass is liberal biased and the WSPQ is libertarian biased.


>>And then you tried to my marks against me when you yourself said it was messed up.

We are both more authoritarian than the test labels us. It is indeed biased.


>>Now tell me how that is a valid argument on your part again? It isnt.

It sure is because we both took these same tests. If it was a case of you taking a biased test, and myself taking an unbiased test; in that case you would have a legitimate point. However we took the same tests, they were equally biased to both of us. The results on both tests were different between us, and they showed the same prevailing trend.

[Mazdak]

So, using your logic, taking away religion means taking away, individuality. Does this mean all atheists are exactly the same. No! Your argument makes little sense.

[Nateddi]

Individuality is a large concept. We are all different people. It is ludicrous to assume that religion is the only belief that makes up one's individuality. Religion is individuality as it should be, however individuality is by no means limited to religion. This is overly obvious, I cannot believe I have to say this.

You limit personal diversity in beliefs by allowing only one doctrine of belief (the one that claims there is no god), and therefore you take away the individual choice in having a different personal opinion. You take away the individual choice to have your own belief on a matter as private and unsocial as spirituality.

I am sick of debating this. I would love to see what other people think of this idiocy.

[Marxist1848]

"This is overly obvious, your link was not necessary. Atheism is the belief that there is no higher power in the world. "
No its not. Athiesm is lack of faith in a higher power. It says nothing about what you should believe. It is LACK OF FAITH OR BELEIF. And now i know people are going to look up the damn word in some dictionary and its going to say -"belief in no god", well guess what. This dictionary was writin by CHRISTIAN men a LONG time ago. Not a good source.

"Religion is a belief one chooses. It is an individual thought that varies from person to person"
NO
Religion attracts people with bribes and scares them with threats. The ignorant few who actually believe that by going into this oocultish life style and behavior are thee people we see every day in church. REAL PRODUCTIVE....HUH???

Religion is not indiviualtiy.
I am forced to go to a catholic school. I see clones all day long. there is absolutely no sense of individuality WHATSOEVER. Everymorning we have to say the pledge and a prayer. I dont. I get yelled at all the time for it and get calls at home and am sent to church to ask for forgiveness. We are forced to go to church ALOT. na dif we dont get those repulsive little bread shits we are yelled at. Religion a choice? NOT THESE DAYS MY FRIEND, NOT THESE DAYS!!!
I have to dress like everyone else (uniforms), have my hair "acceptable" (not too long, not too short, and no "outragious" hair) I have a double mohawk over the summer and i am gnna tell you all what they say tomorrow when i go to school.
If you are different then they yell at you. There was no "other" slot on the form i had to fill out for religion. So i wrote NONE in the spot next to it. I was suspended for this. they said it was derogitory towards them they said i was a child coorupted by the media and i would go to hell if i didnt "repent".
Forceing religion doesnt exist????
These schools are the reasoin for soooo many people being religious these days. They force reigion on everyone when they are young and refuse for children to grow their own personality but the make them idolize a guy who was executed for introducing an ILLEGAL cult to his area. (for those that dont know - jesus)
This is pathetic and needs to be stopped. Without this, children would be able to go to religion on their own! This way they make it their own choice and not someone elses!!! If this was the case.....believe me...religion would not be as popular. Most of the kids my age and younger in school just belt out prayers and religious facts and have NO idea what they are saying or praying to!

[hawarameen]

I too am an atheist, my view on religion is thus-

at the height of the religious age 90%+ of the worlds population lives in complete poverty, they had no hope, life or future, hence a supreme being was concucted for people to have a little hope in that whatever happened on earth, if they were good, they would go to paradise.
this also suited the ruling classes as it encouraged people to behave.

there are 60+ religions around the world and for each one there are hundreds of religions that have failed.

religion breeds hostility and war. religious wars go back to the dawn of time, the crusades are just one example and this is still happening today. everywhere i go i get people trying to talk me in to signing up to their ranks, conversations start from asking directions to inviting me to church to me telling them to go fuck themselves.

what gives anyone the right to impose any views on another, its all political not religious with a 'my party has more members than yours' attitude.

so while i agree with Mazdak that all religion is flawed, i do think that it stupid for people to suggest we should all have the same beliefs and make anybody's beliefs illeagal as such.

[Moskitto]

Religion is not indiviualtiy.
I am forced to go to a catholic school. I see clones all day long. there is absolutely no sense of individuality WHATSOEVER. Everymorning we have to say the pledge and a prayer. I dont. I get yelled at all the time for it and get calls at home and am sent to church to ask for forgiveness. We are forced to go to church ALOT. na dif we dont get those repulsive little bread shits we are yelled at. Religion a choice? NOT THESE DAYS MY FRIEND, NOT THESE DAYS!!!

You're a fool, your suggesting that because you are being forced to follow religion, then everyone else who follows a religion is as well. What about people like Supermodel who believes in god independantly of any religious upbringing?

What would you do if you were forced to be atheist?

[Mazdak]

actually, we are making a point of what nateddi said. According to him, religion makes up ones individuality. Sure it limits individuality, but why would you want homopbic KKK fundamentalist people in the world anyway?

[Lardlad95]

well I believe in God mazdak, does that make me a KKK Homophobic fundamentalist?

[Nateddi]

>>No its not. Athiesm is lack of faith in a higher power.

Wrong. Atheism is the belief that there is no higher power at all. Agnosticism would be a lack of a faith in a higher power without necessarily spurning the possibility of the existence.

>>It says nothing about what you should believe.

Atheism is not religious manumission, it does indeed tell you what you must believe; you must believe that there is no higher power. Period. One cannot be an atheist if one believes even the contingency of a higher power.


>>It is LACK OF FAITH OR BELEIF.

Wrong. You are not the dictionary king. Feel free to invent your own language, English is taken.


>>And now i know people are going to look up the damn word in some dictionary and its going to say -"belief in no god", well guess what. This dictionary was writin by CHRISTIAN men a LONG time ago. Not a good source.

So Christians invented the English language?

Who died and gave you the right to invent definitions?? I cannot believe I am wasting my time arguing with such an utter moron that believes in a Christian conspiracy of dictionary definitions.

Do me a favor, provide some objective evidence that shows Christians wrote the latest edition of the Oxford English dictionary, and with premeditated bias in favor of Christianity.


>>NO
Religion attracts people with bribes and scares them with threats.

Since when are you paid to be a Christian?? Your unproved speculations go completely beyond the point of idiocy.

Religion is followed as a result of good morals in its teachings. There are no bribes, there are no threats. Perhaps such a practice was commonly performed by the CPSU, but not by any church.


>>The ignorant few who actually believe that by going into this oocultish life style and behavior are thee people we see every day in church. REAL PRODUCTIVE....HUH???

ROFL

The ignorant 6 billion+ are followers of some sort of non-atheist religion. Most of the atheists are concentrated in Communist China, where they have little choice to practice a faith openly. A policy that is advocated by a fellow member Mazdak.

Here is a screen shot from Encarta 2002 encyclopedia showing a table graphic of world religions. The ignorant few do not seem to be the Christians.
http://revolucion42.netfirms.com/christ.gif

By the way, speaking of the ignorant few, I am quite ambiguous to how many people share your conspiracy theory of dictionary bias toward Christianity.

>>Religion is not indiviualtiy.

Boycotting the dictionary I see.


>>I am forced to go to a catholic school.

You are a minor. Guess what, you are not in control of your life, your parents are. They provide and will continue to provide you with their best quality food, clothing, shelter, nurturing, advice and well being. As a parent, you have a right to raise your child the best way you see fit raise you the way they see it fit. Stop being trying to be a rebel and get over it. There is no government institution that forces you to be in a catholic school. It is your parents’ choice, and quite frankly, I am 100% supportive of parents’ right to raise children as they see fit. You may not enjoy it now, but trust me, after several years of mental maturity you will understand.


>>I see clones all day long. there is absolutely no sense of individuality WHATSOEVER.

It is not my problem to see students be acceptable of the curriculum being taught. You may call them clones, I frankly don’t give two shits. You have complete individuality, if you did not, you would not be an atheist right now. There is no control over your mind, no thought police. As long as you are a minor and enrolled in private school, you are not a sovereign citizen, you will have to obey to the desires of your parents by attending an institution you may not agree with, however you will still be free to have your own mind.


>>Everymorning we have to say the pledge and a prayer.

Policy of the institution as approved by your well-meaning parents. Grow up or deal with it.


>>I dont. I get yelled at all the time for it and get calls at home and am sent to church to ask for forgiveness.

The institution has set the rules, it is a private institution. If you break a rule, you will be punished. I hope that does not come as a surprise to you.


>>We are forced to go to church ALOT.

This is not a state policy. This is the what your parents believe is best for you, and repeating myself, you are not independent yet, deal with it. When you turn 18, you officially become a full sovereign citizen of the United States, a country that does not control your thoughts or persecute those that vocally do not obey with religious institutions. It was the first country to do so.



>>na dif we dont get those repulsive little bread shits we are yelled at.

What the hell are you trying to say? I seriously cannot understand such utter meaningless slapping of keyboard.


>>Religion a choice? NOT THESE DAYS MY FRIEND, NOT THESE DAYS!!!

Not these days children were treated a lot worse if a hint was let out that a child may not be a believer. These days rebellious shits such as yourself are free to believe in whatever you wish, and your beliefs are protected by the state. You violated school policy by your constant rebelliousness, be happy you are still enrolled. As a matter of fact, be happy you are not physically whip or tortured for you beliefs, something that is no longer done these days.

You are the property of your parents because the state does not recognize adulthood until you are 18 years of age. You have little individual sovereignty, however it does include freedom to think as and believe into whatever you wish.


>>I have to dress like everyone else (uniforms), have my hair "acceptable" (not too long, not too short, and no "outragious" hair)

I fully support the private school to raise children as it wishes. The private school does not steal children as slaves, the parents pay their own money over sending you to a free public school because they wish to see morality taught. Rebelliousness should not be tolerated at a private school, it is one of the main reasons why parents choose to send children into such institutions. If I were you, I would put up with this until it is over. You are obviously a member of a rich family, for they can afford to send you to private school. Don’t fuck this up because you will need to go to college and learn. Poor people that have to go to underfunded public schools in shitty neighborhoods often to do not do well as a result of their situations. You are a fucking Bush. You have the golden road paved for you as a result of being bourgeois, you are wasting it in the name of being a rebel without a cause.

>>I have a double mohawk over the summer and i am gnna tell you all what they say tomorrow when i go to school.

LOL a mohawk? What a rebel! Is there a certain cause for your mohawk? Or do you simply enjoy getting the attention for your misbehaviors? The school has set its moral standards. You know these standards. You choose to disobey them for the purpose of being a rebel. You fully deserve to get dealt with because you are breaking a policy.


>>If you are different then they yell at you.

As they have a right to do so. You are underage, you are in a public institution, their punishment is supported by your parents. End of story. Grow up, you will be free than. I don’t know your level of stubbornness, if I were you I would already notice that such rebelling will not be tolerated at your school. I do not even go there, and I already know this.


>>There was no "other" slot on the form i had to fill out for religion.

It seems common sense for a Catholic school to solely promote the Catholic faith.


>>So i wrote NONE in the spot next to it. I was suspended for this.

What did you expect, rebel? Did you expect for them to obey your glorious religious view. It is a private school, they have rules, you knew the rules.


>>they said it was derogitory towards them

It is common sense that openly supporting atheism toward a religious group of people, as a student of their organization is very derogatory. How would you feel if you set up a private organization of Marxists, and one of your students decided to have fun with the administration by rebelling against everything in an immature matter. This is basically the same scenario. I cannot believe you are not smart enough to realize how offensive and derogatory your actions were.

Let me simplify this for you. You go to a private religious institution; and without a merit you start to complain about religion. ROFL


>>they said i was a child coorupted by the media

By observing your writing and spelling skills, it is obvious you are not the most educated of people, definitely not a great fan of books in my opinion; literature is not the cause of your shift to militant atheism. Furthermore it is the media that pollutes liberal messages such as atheism very often. I would say the school made an excellent hypothesis that shows the root cause of your views radical views.


>>and i would go to hell if i didnt "repent".

Do you believe hell exists? I assume you do not believe so. In that case, why are you wasting your time complaining about it?

ROFL. It’s like getting on a fast ride at an amusement park, and complaining about motion sickness. It’s like going to get a hair cut and asking for a short trim, and then complaining afterwards about how all your hair got cut off. It is like buying a cup of hot coffee, sipping it, burning your tongue, and complaining about it.


>>Forceing religion doesnt exist????

Let me get this straight, you believe other people have the ability to think for you? That someone else can control your mind? ROFL. That is beyond ridiculous. You yourself are a living example of such a fallacy, its beyond idiocy that you are making such an argument.


>>These schools are the reasoin for soooo many people being religious these days.

ROFL

I am guessing the 6 billion+ religious people in this world, out of the population of 6,234,250,000 have went to private school.

By your logic, 90% of American children must be atheist; because 90% of children go to public, non-religious schools.


>>They force reigion on everyone when they are young and refuse for children to grow their own personality but the make them idolize a guy who was executed for introducing an ILLEGAL cult to his area. (for those that dont know - jesus)

Are telling me that Jesus exists?? Atheists don’t believe in any “religious propaganda”, and now you are trying to re-write or re-interpret Christianity in order to suit your argument. ROFL

Lets get this straight. Your argument is that the schools are forcing children to believe Christianity. This presupposes that someone else other than the children can think for the child. Learning requires a volitional process of thought. No one else can think for the child - make him accept Jesus Christ.


>>This is pathetic and needs to be stopped.

You admitted yourself that most children in your schools adhere well to the principals being taught. Your idea is therefore useless.


>>Without this, children would be able to go to religion on their own!

No one can force a child to be religious – period. You are the living proof.


>>This way they make it their own choice and not someone elses!!!

The reasoning behind this is ludicrous, - for your entire argument presupposes a child cannot think for himself; that learning is involuntary.


>>If this was the case.....believe me...religion would not be as popular.

This is a logical fallacy. If you wish to learn about religion voluntarily, the learning institution you are using the services off can be passed off by people such as yourself as an agency of unfair indoctrination. You do not choose where you are born, you do not choose your parents, and therefore you do not choose the methods of teaching used by your parents. You consider yourself unlucky that your parents try to lead you to the way of Christ, this is their voluntary action for you, and this is not indoctrination. If this is indeed indoctrination, the same argument could be used for anything else that seems more voluntary, as what you propose; for to learn about religion you need teachers and schools, which can be labeled as institution of unfair indoctrination regardless of how one starts learning at the school.

>>Most of the kids my age and younger in school just belt out prayers and religious facts and have NO idea what they are saying or praying to!

You are you and your rights pertain only to yourself - not onto others. Furthermore this is an extremely subjective and opinionated statement, not requiring of any purposeful evaluation.

[canikickit]

Go here (http://www.m-w.com/) to learn the truth about the latest evil Christian plot to take over the world. We are all doomed run take cover, abandon all hope.

[Mazdak]

LoL, nateddi, i agree iwht you on the mohawk issue. It is stupd. However, isn't it a bit nazi to have everyone learning/thinking the same?

And lardlad once agian, you challenge me with pointless quuestions, so just to humor myself, i will say, yes, Lardlad, you are a homophobic KKK fundamentalist.

[Nateddi]

>>However, isn't it a bit nazi to have everyone learning/thinking the same?

LMAO

You are the one who wants to ban religion, now that is an excellent example of everyone thinking the same way. I am supportive of religious freedom for anyone to be atheist, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish (maybe), and so forth. Moreover, I am 100% supportive of parents’ right to raise children as they see fit. I would outlaw abuse and other mistreatments of course, but the parents will have the choice of the schooling for their child. I do not support everyone thinking the same, you do.


>>And lardlad once agian, you challenge me with pointless quuestions, so just to humor myself, i will say, yes, Lardlad, you are a homophobic KKK fundamentalist.

Last response from Lardlad was short and excellent. It pointed out your hypocrisy and generalization.

ROFL

Are all Muslims terrorists? By your logic they must be, since all Christians are KKK fundamentalists. All my Christian friends oppose the Klan for many different reasons. There is a difference between fanaticism and moderate religion. You need to stop generalizing as you are.

World statistics
Klan Members: 5,000
Christian People (of all branches): 3,000,000,000+

oh by the way, lardlad is black.


(Edited by Nateddi at 9:45 pm on Sep. 5, 2002)

[munkey soup]

I agree with almost everything Nateddi said, especially the issue on parents controlling their kids lifes and having mandatory school uniforms. I believe people should believe in what they want, but I will say this:

I there is a higher power, I challenge him/her/it to a duel, they'd probably win, but at least I'd die knowing I was my own man.

[canikickit]

Faith can heal, it has been proven. (http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/faith.htm)
I don't believe all the mumbo jumbo of the prayer directly influencing your health but the rest makes perfect, undeniable sense.

Stick that in your pipe and ban it, Mazdak (http://www.seaworld.com/).

[Mazdak]

So, once again, i am not controlling peoples individuality and their minds. I am simply ending superstition and the divisions caused by religion.

I know lard lad is black. He has made it clear 10000 times. But since he wants to right away play with my words, i will humor him.

Canikickit, you don't seem to be the most trustworthy source, you yourself said that the only things important to you are music and cannabis. You arent asking to be taken seriously at all.

and I am saying, that religion breeds muslim terrorists and christian fundamentalists. atheism doesnt.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 11:44 pm on Sep. 5, 2002
So, once again, i am not controlling peoples individuality and their minds. I am simply ending superstition and the divisions caused by religion.

I know lard lad is black. He has made it clear 10000 times. But since he wants to right away play with my words, i will humor him.

Canikickit, you don't seem to be the most trustworthy source, you yourself said that the only things important to you are music and cannabis. You arent asking to be taken seriously at all.

and I am saying, that religion breeds muslim terrorists and christian fundamentalists. atheism doesnt.



Why would ATHIESM breed MUSLIM TERRORISTS and CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS?

Of course atheism doesn't breed that there is no way that it could

However I'm willing to bet the majority of muslims in the world don't want to strap bombs to them selves and blow up Israli buildings.

Bad can come from anything, however you seem to believe that only bad can come from it.

Good and bad can come from everything.

Religion has breed both Jerry Falwell and Mother Teresa

Jerry Falwell hates gays and is ultra conservative

Mother Teresa was compassionate and helped out all those she could.

Good and bad, when you talk about the bad you must also reember that good is also there.

[canikickit]

You said Religion should be "banned". This is one reason why it shouldn't be.

You are wanted here, Mazdak (http://www.seaworld.com/)


and I am saying, that religion breeds muslim terrorists and christian fundamentalists. atheism doesnt.
I have read you saying many times about "excecution" and "murder". You are an Atheist, you are illogical, you must be exterminated be your own rationale. I think you should commit self-slaughter.

[hawarameen]

Quote: from canikickit on 11:20 pm on Sep. 5, 2002
Faith can heal, it has been proven. (http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/faith.htm)
I don't believe all the mumbo jumbo of the prayer directly influencing your health but the rest makes perfect, undeniable sense.

Stick that in your pipe and ban it, Mazdak (http://www.seaworld.com/).


I am sorry but this is the most bizzare statement i have ever read. exactly what proof can you give me i must have missed that breaking news on the tv.

whilst i dont agree with mazdak on many issues i agree that religion breeds conflict and has done since the dawn of time.

i dont think religion should be banned, it too big to ban and i think people should follow whatever religion they choose but what gets on my nerves is all the unsubstanciated bollocks that is thrown about, I am the son of god, all other religions are bad and you will go to hell etc. etc.

[Iyana]

Its funny Islam is the only religion to really accept all other religions, so it says in the Q'uran. Still doesnt float my boat. No religions do.

[canikickit]

I am sorry but this is the most bizzare statement i have ever read. exactly what proof can you give me i must have missed that breaking news on the tv.

You obviously didn't go and read the link, so I don't really see why you are asking the question. However.

1. Most religious people do not drink or smoke as much as others, therefore if you become religious it will start a healing process on your body, in many cases.

2. Prayer, much the same as meditation (indeed it is a form of meditation), can relax the mind and therefore the body, in this way it is both a physical and mental healer (not to mention spiritual). It is well known that heart problems and so forth can come from stress, if your mind is at ease, so will your heart be.
3. From Reader's Digest (http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/):
"Longer Life. A study of 21,000 people from1987 to 1995 found a seven year difference in life expectancy between those who never attend religious services and those who attend more than once a week.
Good Mental Health. Psychologists from Sheffield Hallam University found that people who pray more have lower rates of depression and anxiety."
That's not all, but its more than enough.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should fall to their knees and start singing God's praises, I don't believe in God myself. I'm just proving (as opposed to trying to prove) to idiot like Mazdak that the idea that religion is somehow wrong is completely ludicrous. Its probably a waste o time because Mazdak is obviously incapable of intelligent argument, but hey.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Iyana on 4:53 pm on Sep. 6, 2002
Its funny Islam is the only religion to really accept all other religions, so it says in the Q'uran. Still doesnt float my boat. No religions do.


technicaly yes...but it still says Jesus will only accept Islam when he returns.

And that God will only accept Islam when you die.

Personally I think God really could care less aslong as you are a good person.

Did anyone see that Episode of Futurama wheer bender becomes God...tehn he meets God? I love that one.

God, "If you've done something rihgt, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

[EricDHobo]

One would have to be a fool to listin to Jesus. If you look at the facts he was some stoner who went out in the desert, tripped out, and came back telling every one that he was the son of god. Don't believe the shit the bible says just because your ancestors did.
P.S. should a communist government be opposed to anyone who is religious? why or why not?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from EricDHobo on 7:21 am on Sep. 7, 2002
One would have to be a fool to listin to Jesus. If you look at the facts he was some stoner who went out in the desert, tripped out, and came back telling every one that he was the son of god. Don't believe the shit the bible says just because your ancestors did.
P.S. should a communist government be opposed to anyone who is religious? why or why not?

and you are basing this on what facts?

Second Jesus never actually said he was the son of God, St. Paul said that

[hawarameen]

firstly, i dont have to be religious to obstain from alcohol or nicotine, why not just discourage them, religion is unneccesary.

secondly i dont need relegion to relax.

i just believe that religion has become a fashion that cannot stop, it had its place at some point in time but it is in my opinion obsolete.

[Dynatos]

''should a communist government be opposed to anyone who is religious? why or why not?'' Why make an enemy whan you can make a friend

[canikickit]

Quote: from hawarameen on 7:31 pm on Sep. 7, 2002
firstly, i dont have to be religious to obstain from alcohol or nicotine, why not just discourage them, religion is unneccesary.

secondly i dont need relegion to relax.

i just believe that religion has become a fashion that cannot stop, it had its place at some point in time but it is in my opinion obsolete.


Nobody said you need it. But this proves that religion can do good for people.
It is not unneccessary, because it helps people.
Just read my fucking other posts, I'm sick of repeating myself.

I wasn't talking about you. Are you really that self-centered?
This shows that people are made happier by their religion, I don't really give a fuck how you feel about your......ah fuck it.

[Marxman]

Religion is the opium for the people - by Karl Marx

Religion in communism will not be abolished but will have no meaning, just like money will have no meaning nor family nor greed nor lust not gluttony.

[Mazdak]

Religion an do good for people??? You talk about Stalin's evils are no match for gods.

[Anonymous]

ok here i go again insult religion! J/k!!!

well i will talk about christianism since its the only religion wich i am familiarized with!

First christianism is imposed in people trough fear, if you dont pray you go to hell, if you arent faithfull you go to hell, you need to pray in order to achieve heaven, you cant sin because sinners go to hell, you cant masturbate because masturbation is a sinn, you must not have bad thoughs in church because it tis a sin, you must not eat meat in sacred days becasue it is a sinn, etc etc etc..... Iits the true, most people pray and go to church not because they love theyr God, neither becasue they like doing it! they simply do it becasue they dont want to go to hell, and becasue they want to have a bether life not by themselfs, but by praying to a (in my case unexistent) God, you may say " i am religios becasue i like etc etc" i will belive but the majority fears its god so they pray! now dotn say " you dont know what you are talking about you arent baptized you dont go to church etc" Bulshit, i´m not baptized, and i almost never go to church (only at weedings) yet i live on a family of religiuos people and my grandmother and other memebrs of my family always told me " God is great, he who doest follow the words of God shall go to hell; this is a sin, that is a sin: pray to go to heaven; you must be baptised in order to go to heaven etc..." and that bulshit really pissed me off, because i know i aint the only one that was harassd with that crap in is life! i alwasy resisted taht, but most of my friends didnt! in fact most of my friends went to church were baptized etc etc, and there is another factor taht pushes you to religion, the social factor, when i was younger (much younger) all of my friends went to chirch, but i dint becasue i wasnt a believer, yet they always told be that i should go to churche and pray and that crap! but i never believed! and now here i am laughing very hard at theyr faces ebcasue they never go to churhc now, now they dont fear the church so they dont havea religious life!

Admit it! Most people are forced to be religious by fear! like it was during the midle ages, only taht today there is that hypocritical shit of "you are free to belive in wat you want (but if you dont believe in God you are going to go to hell!)"

[Marxman]

Religion can be a guidance, that's the only good thing. But a limited guidance with not good answers. Religion was created to be easy for us, for us to feel relaxed. Religion was also abused for a weapon of exploitation (middle ages and even now) and the same people that are abusing the christianity, are the same people who baptize us and force us to believe in it. A discrepancy, goddamn.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxman on 5:13 am on Sep. 9, 2002
Religion can be a guidance, that's the only good thing. But a limited guidance with not good answers. Religion was created to be easy for us, for us to feel relaxed. Religion was also abused for a weapon of exploitation (middle ages and even now) and the same people that are abusing the christianity, are the same people who baptize us and force us to believe in it. A discrepancy, goddamn.


How many people put a gun to your head and said pray to God?

None? Then don't say they are forcing you to do or believe anything

[MJM]

But Lardlad, religion lives on fear and so it does force those who are afraid to follow the rules, there by breaking their natural instinct of free will.
1)
The fear of death, perfectly reasonable fear here. We all think of ourselves as special and worthwhile creatures that deserve better than death, we're better than common animals right?
2)
The fear of hell, totally unreasonable and created merely for the purpose of scaring those who can handle mortality into fearing the devil and hell. With the fear of hell people will follow just in case there is a hell and they do end up in a firey pit of damnation.

The second fear is created to force people into xianity and religion in general, it was created by religious leaders not by anyone else.
I'd rather have a gun at my head than the threat of a lake of fire for all eternity.

[Lardlad95]

I'm scared of the CIA killing me but does that mean they are outside my door?

No

if you don't find it reasonable don't believe.

If people are stupid enough to go against their own beliefs its their fault

IF you don't believe in God but you go to church you are a moron

if you believe in god but don't claim to you are a moron

You control your own fate and beliefs

[Anonymous]

but those peopel believe in god, and they not only believe but they also fear god and expecially Hell, they go to church to purify theyr souls in order to go to hell ,not becasue they enjoy it, most religions are based on fear, and christianism is one of them!

[Nateddi]

such "free thinking" theory can only come from an atheist. If you believed, you would because of different.

[Lardlad95]

we all know I believe in GOd yet I ahte organized religion

Organized religion causes fear...not the belief that Jesus is the son of god it's self

[abstractmentality]

hmm....i cant honestly say that i read every word of every post in this thread, but i did get to most of it.

to begin with, allow me to say i am an atheist, for those that dont know. the prefix "a" meaning without, and "theist" meaning belief, therefore i am "without belief." but to be an atheist because of the prior wrongs of religion is, IMO, not reason enough. by the rationale of being atheist because of its past is to be anti-leftist because of the wrongs brought about in the name of "leftism." now, i dont think that most of us would follow along those lines of rationale. i will be honest, i do not know where we all came from, or how the universe began, but i do not think that not knowing necessitates the existence of a god. i do not believe because i have not "felt the prescence" of god (as many people i talk to say they have), and i have not been proven the existence of a god (which i dont think will ever happen).

and the idea of banishing all religion is frightening to me. religion is not wholly horrible. most of the homeless shelters in my community, as well as the feeding centers for the homeless are religious facilities. im not sure how they work all to much, but im sure they may give you a little religious spew every now and then, but none the less, you are getting a nights sleep and food.

the only religious people i take issues with are the ones that cant accept the fact that i do not believe and insist on telling me they pray for me every night, and the ones that are constantly trying to convert me.

yes, religion does in some ways enslave people to do things they normally wouldnt (as MJM alluded to), but if their is a god, is that the will of that god, or of religion? and thats where i believe the line is drawn, religion may have done some fucked up things (some good stuff as well), but does that eliminate the possibility of a god? no.

i have stated why i am an atheist, and that is where i stand as of now.


(Edited by abstractmentality at 9:55 am on Sep. 12, 2002)

[hawarameen]

just by suggesting that jesus is the son of god you yourself are condemned to hell under many religions.

religion is nothing but contradictions.

[Nateddi]

i agree with abstractmentality

the hardest religion bashers have all went to private catholic school. lol their mummies did them good. marxist1848 and mazdak, both utterly destroyed. religion bashing is indeed the most moronic thing one can do.


@hawarameen

only atheists believe this kind of ideas. i am agnostic for the most part because of these ideas. religious people are not all idiots as it may seem, they actually believe in what they believe in, this is why it is impossible to have a religious debate or convert someone to atheism.

[hawarameen]

i completely agree relegion is the sort of thing that people have fixed views about, only under exceptional circumstances can one be converted from one belief to the other.

i am not trying to 'convert' anybody just expressing my views.

[Mazdak]

REligion has been the reaons for oppression in the past. Religion bashing? Why not. All they do is bash us. I have gone to catholic school all this time. That means i am not ignorant of the concepts they try to convey. It is just so funny. How could people actually believe it. It wasnt leftism that attracted me to atheism, but the other way around. I never believed in god, and i was quite happy to see Marxist theory, which i agreed with, to bash religion the way it did.

[hawarameen]

im with mazdak on this, i too have been brought up to follow islam but instead of following others views i have found that religion is neither logical nor feasible.

[Anonymous]

there is always someon saying "God bless you" or "As god wishes" to you ,and taht really anoysme since they put theyr religion on my way! My granmother has ofered me money if i baptized!!! And dont you dare to amke the tiniest joke about jesus god or something religious becuase you will hear murmurs, you will see fer, and even tears!

[munkey soup]

"im with mazdak on this, i too have been brought up to follow islam but instead of following others views i have found that religion is neither logical nor feasible."

Amen hawarameen, not that i'm for abolishing all religions, but I do think the world would be a better place without religion.

Check the second part of the sig!!!
[]
[]
[]
/
/

(Edited by munkey soup at 11:12 pm on Sep. 12, 2002)

[Mazdak]

Then what is everyone's problem? Why did everyone criticize me on this whole thing in the first place?

[munkey soup]

"'cause no one likes ya, monkey boy."

(10 points to whoever names the band and song)


(Edited by munkey soup at 12:20 am on Sep. 15, 2002)

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:07 pm on Sep. 13, 2002
Then what is everyone's problem? Why did everyone criticize me on this whole thing in the first place?


i think that religion can bring about some good things, but non-reilgious organizations can do so as well. i wouldnt mind a world without religion, but the fact of the matter is that it is here, and it is oh so widespread, that in order to rid the world of it, you would have do some things that i dont agree with (like you have mentioned mazdak), and that is where the dissagreement comes into play.

[canikickit]

The reason I critisised you Mazdak was because you advocate "banning" religion, by force if neccessary.

This goes against my belief that people should be able to do what they want as long as they don't bother others.
It's also impossibly unrealistic.

[hawarameen]

although i do agree with you mazdak, this 'banning religion idea' is nonsense and i think this is where most people disagree with you.

religion breeds hostility and i think the world would be a better place without it but it is here and far to big to ban and in any case people seem to like it, they need someone to blame for their misfortunes.

[Mazdak]

I am banning organized religion, not spirituality. Although i care little for either.(once again, speaking hypothetically

[canikickit]

I don't see what difference that makes.
Some people want their organisation. Who are you to tell them (hypothetically) that they are wrong.
True religion has caused problems, but why try and abolish the whole thing? That is just taking the lazy, and easier route. That is not good leadership.

[Mazdak]

It may be easy, but after a while, it will work. It just takes patience and persistence. The Romans failed because they didnt have either.

[canikickit]

It may be easy, but after a while, it will work.

Isn't this a bit of a silly statement? If I'd said it was difficult....

But anyway, I don't think it should (or would) work. By banning organised religion you are infringing on people's rights of assembly and freedom of expression. Why would you choose to do this? Why?

[Mazdak]

because it is not people's freedom that counts. It is their living conditions.

And i meant, it may be difficult, i dont know why i put easy instead.

[Austrian]

I'm no atheist! Of course i hate the catholic church for it's history and it's discrimination of jews, women, and so on! But there has to be a higher force, than we can imagine! What was before big bang? Is the universe really eternal? there has to be a beginning of all this stuff!

[Mazdak]

No.... there was a large dead star.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 9:43 pm on Sep. 27, 2002
No.... there was a large dead star.

No wonder I stopped posting here...I got sick of your lies

[Iepilei]

Humans are not all knowing. We do not know the will of God/The gods. We've no proof he exists, and we've no proof he doesn't.

Agnostic all the way (though I lean towards atheism on occasion). I don't agree with structured religion myself, I think it to be the highest form of blasphemy. You shouldn't believe anything regarding the will of any god, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have ideas.

[canikickit]

It's funny the way you say you are agnostic, but think organised religion is blasphemous.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

EVERYBODY HAS A RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN. IT SHOULDN'T BE SEEN AS A PROBLEM

[Iepilei]

Quote: from canikickit on 11:31 pm on Sep. 27, 2002
It's funny the way you say you are agnostic, but think organised religion is blasphemous.

What's so funny about it?

I think it's wrong to totally negate the existance of some spiritual form, and think of it as ultimately true... just as I think it's wrong to totally accept the existance of some spiritual form and convince yourself what you're saying is right - on either front.

Bottom line, we don't know if there is or isn't a god/s. So to negate, in full, or support is simply the wrong stance to take on it. There is no difference between an atheist shouting "there is no god!" and a fundamentalist quoting bible verses.

[abstractmentality]

i thought this thread was in the process of dieing.

guess not.

[canikickit]

What's so funny about it?

I suppose you had to be there.

what you said there is a lttle clearer. I meant that if you do not know whether there is a god or not how can you consider it disrespectful for people to worship this hypothetical (to you) being in a structured form.
I think the idea of having some structure and organisation would be flattering to the almighty.

Regardless, I agree with what you said after that.

[Iepilei]

well, after reading I see where you may have thought I was only referring to religion.

My apologies.

[hawarameen]

Quote: from abstractmentality on 6:53 am on Sep. 28, 2002
i thought this thread was in the process of dieing.

guess not.


it has been ressurected!!

i couldnt resist it

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from hawarameen on 1:35 pm on Sep. 28, 2002

Quote: from abstractmentality on 6:53 am on Sep. 28, 2002
i thought this thread was in the process of dieing.

guess not.


it has been ressurected!!

i couldnt resist it

lol. nice one.

now let it die...:)

[LeninCCCP]

No God.....
thats a fact
But some of the bible is still good reading
AND...all great wars are based on religion and beliefs so lets not fight on this issue unless someone starts being a jerk about it.

[Marxman]

Bible is enriched with morale stories. It can teach you a lot about life, I mean, it includes some stories of reality. But basically I see Bible as a gigantic novel, written by hundreds of novelists.

[evil chris]

"No God.....
thats a fact "

taint unless you can prove it either way.
Man you're gay.

[honest intellectual]

The bilble is about 30% moral law and 70% religious/ ritual law. The ten commandments for example:

1. I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me.
2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not kill.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Only 6, 8 and 9 are actually moral laws

[Lardlad95]

so honoring your father and mother isn't moraly right?

[Mazdak]

then, Lardlad, you tell me your idea of what was there before the big bang please.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 5:36 pm on Sep. 29, 2002
then, Lardlad, you tell me your idea of what was there before the big bang please.

NO! not again i posted my theory several times through out this entire forum

but no, no one takes teh time to read them

You want my thoughts fuckin find them

[hawarameen]

i was gonna start a new thread on this but ill post it here instead.

Can you be a socialist and be religious at the same time.
the idea of religion is that there is a supreme being, an all mighty, all powerful entity that controls your future and your present ie 'the will of god' etc.

is this not anti-socialist in nature? religion does not have a classless system indeed it was said that kings and queens were appointed by god making them a 'better' class of person.

does anyone understand were im coming from?

i personally think that religion and socialism cannot go together but this is just my oppinion.

[Lardlad95]

Who said God controls you?

Ever hear of free will?

[abstractmentality]

the free will concept can be debated back and forth. here is ths usual one:

atheist: if god knows all past present and future, and he already knows what we are going to do, and therefore we have no free will.

theist: but according to armenian predestination, god has the power to choose not to know what we are going to do. therefore, we have free will.

atheist: but if he chooses not to know, he is choosing to not know something, therefore the something he is choosing not to know is already planned. thus, no free will.

etc.

EDIT: Lardlad, you are converting to Islam? just wondering why and what you would consider yourself before your conversion.

(Edited by abstractmentality at 2:36 pm on Sep. 29, 2002)

[hawarameen]

religion is a dictatorship, rules or guides (i prefer to use the term laws) are set out in holy books, what we should do, what we shouldnt do. ok there is no instant punishment by god but the idea is there that we will go to hell if we missbehave.

for me god is a dictator, religious people do things in order to praise him, people will not tolerate abuse towards him, they sing songs about him, he is all powerful and controls our very existence and our eventual death. this for me goes against the basics of socialism and i think you cannot be both religious and a socialist. is it any wonder why the farthers of leftist politics were atheists?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from hawarameen on 12:19 am on Sep. 30, 2002
religion is a dictatorship, rules or guides (i prefer to use the term laws) are set out in holy books, what we should do, what we shouldnt do. ok there is no instant punishment by god but the idea is there that we will go to hell if we missbehave.

for me god is a dictator, religious people do things in order to praise him, people will not tolerate abuse towards him, they sing songs about him, he is all powerful and controls our very existence and our eventual death. this for me goes against the basics of socialism and i think you cannot be both religious and a socialist. is it any wonder why the farthers of leftist politics were atheists?


You explanation only reffers to organized religion

[Iepilei]

If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.

Why would your God deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where God says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

If your God requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your God. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time. Someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your God. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

...not to push against any forms of religion, just questions that help break up the 'I'm right' stance. Like stated, noone is right. Noone has ever been right. Is there a god? We don't know.

If there is, we don't know his will.

If there isn't, we've yet to create a logical theory on where the first superdense particle originated.

Either way, we can never be sure. It's never best to side with one extreme on a question you can't answer.

[hawarameen]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 12:34 am on Sep. 30, 2002

Quote: from hawarameen on 12:19 am on Sep. 30, 2002
religion is a dictatorship, rules or guides (i prefer to use the term laws) are set out in holy books, what we should do, what we shouldnt do. ok there is no instant punishment by god but the idea is there that we will go to hell if we missbehave.

for me god is a dictator, religious people do things in order to praise him, people will not tolerate abuse towards him, they sing songs about him, he is all powerful and controls our very existence and our eventual death. this for me goes against the basics of socialism and i think you cannot be both religious and a socialist. is it any wonder why the farthers of leftist politics were atheists?


You explanation only reffers to organized religion


i am prepared to conceed this.

however i do not see un-organised religion as religion. i see advocates of unorganised religion as meer spiritualists.

if someone says they are religious and they do not believe in god this is completely contradictory in my opinion.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Iepilei on 9:13 pm on Sep. 30, 2002
If your God wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn't free will.

Why would your God deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where God says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

If your God requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your God. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time. Someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your God. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

...not to push against any forms of religion, just questions that help break up the 'I'm right' stance. Like stated, noone is right. Noone has ever been right. Is there a god? We don't know.

If there is, we don't know his will.

If there isn't, we've yet to create a logical theory on where the first superdense particle originated.

Either way, we can never be sure. It's never best to side with one extreme on a question you can't answer.


First of all son, when you try and talk to the Lad make sure you aren't goin up on some misinformed shit.

I don't believe Jesus was the son of God I'm converting to Islam genius we only believe he was a prophet.

Next Hardening Pharoah's heart isn't a sin. The fact that he wasn't complying with Moses' requests doesn't mean that he was sinning he simply said "no"

The concept of hell isn't even taken literally anymore.

The Jewish believe its temporary like the Catholic pergatory

There are even priests who don't belive hell exists, they believe you simply cease to be.

Please don't assume to know my beliefs again.


To hawarameen Not necassarilly true technicaly while I am going to follow Islam and Buddhism (yes you can follow both) I'm not identifying my self with an order

[RedRevolutionary87]

if you follow any monotheistic religion you are submitting to a monarch (god, allah, judah)

"if got really existed it would be necessary to abolish him".....mikhail bakunin

[Iepilei]

well I will admit I didn't read all the way through the posts, so I just made the guess you were christian based on the few posts I did read.

Regardless, religion is religion. I don't care either way, so don't bother getting all pissy over something minor - I wasn't attacking you. The questions were taken from a test dedicated to hardcore-holyroller types, which there are many sadly.

I'll believe what I believe, and you'll believe what you believe. As long as we can come to terms and agree to this point, everything is a-ok! :)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 2:40 am on Oct. 1, 2002
if you follow any monotheistic religion you are submitting to a monarch (god, allah, judah)

"if got really existed it would be necessary to abolish him".....mikhail bakunin


God is not forcing you to do anything so technicaly he isn't a monarch, he isn't presiding over your life

Now I suggest you look into Deism i think you may find the concept interesting

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 12:18 pm on Oct. 1, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Iepilei on 3:59 am on Oct. 1, 2002
well I will admit I didn't read all the way through the posts, so I just made the guess you were christian based on the few posts I did read.

Regardless, religion is religion. I don't care either way, so don't bother getting all pissy over something minor - I wasn't attacking you. The questions were taken from a test dedicated to hardcore-holyroller types, which there are many sadly.

I'll believe what I believe, and you'll believe what you believe. As long as we can come to terms and agree to this point, everything is a-ok! :)


Well there aren't that many hadcore christians here I'm the only one who usualy defends religion

I suggest you look into Deism also

[hawarameen]

god is a monarch, if you sin or if you do not believe in him you may not b punished in this life but you will have eternal punishment in hell.

i do not belive you can follow a religion without also following the particular god. the supreme being is at the forefront of any religion, here is your dictator.

Lardlad i hope you do not take offence but you cannot convert to islam and not believe in allah.
i dont know about budhism but as a former muslim i know that islam and allah are synonymous and i think most muslims will take great offence at this suggestion and many will consider it blasphemy.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from hawarameen on 3:27 pm on Oct. 1, 2002
god is a monarch, if you sin or if you do not believe in him you may not b punished in this life but you will have eternal punishment in hell.

i do not belive you can follow a religion without also following the particular god. the supreme being is at the forefront of any religion, here is your dictator.

Lardlad i hope you do not take offence but you cannot convert to islam and not believe in allah.
i dont know about budhism but as a former muslim i know that islam and allah are synonymous and i think most muslims will take great offence at this suggestion and many will consider it blasphemy.


I never said I did not believe in Allah. I do believe in God.

However you can be Buddhist and still believe in God, Sidahatta Gotama (buddha believed in God's)

Budhhism is simply a search for inner enlightenment

I don't agree with Reincarnation but I do agree that one must look within one's self for inner peace

Once again I want to state that I de belive in Allah

as far as Deism goes, Deism is simply the belief that God exists but that he has left us to our selves he has no interference in our lives

Though I'm not a Deist

[LeninCCCP]

Quote: from evil chris on 4:33 am on Sep. 29, 2002
"No God.....
thats a fact "

taint unless you can prove it either way.
Man you're gay.

Fuck You, you hate mongering asshole you can kiss my godless ass!

(Edited by LeninCCCP at 5:37 pm on Oct. 2, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Now Lennin is that the Christian thing to say?


(You guys don't know how hard I want to laugh t what I just said it so damn stupid)

[Mazdak]

Good, as long as the religions hordes are disorganized, it would be easy to crush them. I hope the stalinists move quickly and crush them all. I am going to do a StalinSoldiers rant.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:40 am on Oct. 4, 2002
Good, as long as the religions hordes are disorganized, it would be easy to crush them. I hope the stalinists move quickly and crush them all. I am going to do a StalinSoldiers rant.

well mazdak you keep thinking that

[hawarameen]

seriously mazdak your comments make me laugh sometimes.

right now im trying to find out where lardlad live so i can crush him!

[peaccenicked]

God. I wonder How is it possible to believe in something?
Surely it is only possible to believe [/i]about[/i] something, anything.
And surely this must mean that the only possible thing to believe about god is that he does not exist.
he/she/it only ''exists'' because of irrational faith or desire. A phantom friend or saviour.

[mentalbunny]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I will jsut give my opinion:

Logic tells me that any supreme being has lost interest in us by now. I think that something must have started off creation but I think that's all it was, some unexplained energy or process we cannot understand as yet, or probably ever. The universe is so huge, and we probably evolved from microbes anyway, so what makes us so special?!

However I still pray soemtimes, I still liek to believe in some higher purpose or being, and I see the Christian God, the Muslim Allah and the Hindu Brahman and the same thing in a different package (although they are supposed to be infinite in many ways, the human brain is limited and so it limits even the omniscient etc). I was borught up as a Christian (Anglican) which is what my parents are, my brother is agnostic and my siste is atheistic/ solipsistc (ion some sens eof the word anyway, I'll explain her thoguhts when I have more time).

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from hawarameen on 1:30 pm on Oct. 4, 2002
seriously mazdak your comments make me laugh sometimes.

right now im trying to find out where lardlad live so i can crush him!


Please tell me how a search for inner enlightenment is blasphemy?

I sitll believe in Allah however I agree that one must look within one's self for inner peace.

I don't believe Buddha (Siddahata Gotama) was a God

I don't believe in Reincarnation


Now please tell for what reason you are going to (attempt and fail misrebly at) crush(ing) me

[hawarameen]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 10:58 pm on Oct. 4, 2002

Quote: from hawarameen on 1:30 pm on Oct. 4, 2002
seriously mazdak your comments make me laugh sometimes.

right now im trying to find out where lardlad live so i can crush him!


Please tell me how a search for inner enlightenment is blasphemy?

I sitll believe in Allah however I agree that one must look within one's self for inner peace.

I don't believe Buddha (Siddahata Gotama) was a God

I don't believe in Reincarnation


Now please tell for what reason you are going to (attempt and fail misrebly at) crush(ing) me

i really dont know how im going to crush you but maybe mazdak has some infantile ideas

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from hawarameen on 11:12 am on Oct. 6, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 10:58 pm on Oct. 4, 2002

Quote: from hawarameen on 1:30 pm on Oct. 4, 2002
seriously mazdak your comments make me laugh sometimes.

right now im trying to find out where lardlad live so i can crush him!


Please tell me how a search for inner enlightenment is blasphemy?

I sitll believe in Allah however I agree that one must look within one's self for inner peace.

I don't believe Buddha (Siddahata Gotama) was a God

I don't believe in Reincarnation


Now please tell for what reason you are going to (attempt and fail misrebly at) crush(ing) me

i really dont know how im going to crush you but maybe mazdak has some infantile ideas

Thats not what I asked I asked why you wanted to crush me

[ID2002]

I am Buddhist, but I believe that my duty lies with the leader of the country and its people #1. Buddhism is a-political....and that is the way it should stay.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from ID2002 on 1:55 am on Oct. 7, 2002
I am Buddhist, but I believe that my duty lies with the leader of the country and its people #1. Buddhism is a-political....and that is the way it should stay.

All I'm trying to say is that Theravada Buddhism doesn't neccasarily mean you can't believe in a God.

Siddaharta gutama (SP?) believed in Gods yet he didn't feel that it was essential to worship them so a buddhist can believe in God's and still be buddhist

yes there are types of Buddhist that worship Buddha but that isn't always true

[evil chris]

LeninCCP - you can come to my house for tea you witless nonce.

[ID2002]

GOD is god...Buddha is Buddha...GOd therefore is not Buddha but human being. Do I believe in re-encarnation? Yes.
Does this effect my strong socialist attitude? Yes. It makes me consider socialism as an even stronger political ideology than anything else. It is natural in my view to have a socialist order.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from ID2002 on 5:51 am on Oct. 8, 2002
GOD is god...Buddha is Buddha...GOd therefore is not Buddha but human being. Do I believe in re-encarnation? Yes.
Does this effect my strong socialist attitude? Yes. It makes me consider socialism as an even stronger political ideology than anything else. It is natural in my view to have a socialist order.



ok hawraweeman just so you know I agree with the above mentioned quote with the exception of reincarnation.

I believe buddha was a person not a god

I believe that Allah is God

[Mazdak]

Yes, Allah is god, and god is fake, so allah is fake.

I have debated this far long. Allah is probably worse, if anything could be worse, than the mass murdering imperialist illusion "god." They cant even think up a nifty name for him like Zeus, or Hera, just plain old god. Christianity is so boring. It isnt even a fun religion to practice. >:(

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 10:26 pm on Oct. 8, 2002
Yes, Allah is god, and god is fake, so allah is fake.

I have debated this far long. Allah is probably worse, if anything could be worse, than the mass murdering imperialist illusion "god." They cant even think up a nifty name for him like Zeus, or Hera, just plain old god. Christianity is so boring. It isnt even a fun religion to practice. >:(

you haven't debated shit you've come up with a bunch of generic Atheist remarks

nothing deep, nothing scientific, no evidence

just the same old bull shit you been spouting since I met you

[Mazdak]

Yeah, because i have nothing else to say. This is utterly pointless, since you seem to be converting to different religions as fast as you change clothes. What will you be next week? A Shintu?

[hawarameen]

and it is that same god that i dont believe in, whichever religious party he belongs to.
for me religion is nothing more than politics. that head of state, the all powerfull supreme leader goes against the basics of socialism, this is my point, religion and socialism do not mix

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:53 am on Oct. 10, 2002
Yeah, because i have nothing else to say. This is utterly pointless, since you seem to be converting to different religions as fast as you change clothes. What will you be next week? A Shintu?



What the hell are you talking about?