The U.S. Military

[sarixe]

For several years now, my parents have been bugging me about my life, my future, and how I'm going to live it. I have only recently started to consider my life after high school, and for me it looks pretty uncertain. I am failing almost every class in school, my teachers know me for my poor work ethic rather than my intelligence, my parents treat me like an idiot, and i'm completely miserable. I have no chance of getting into any colleges at this point.

My brother recently pointed out to me that the U.S. Military will pay for college tuition. Of course, to anyone in my position, this would seem like a godsend. But I, not believing in either god OR my country, turned this down, saying that 1) If I were sent into battle, I would have a high likelihood of dying, 2) I would be serving my country, which I have no faith in, and 3) I do not have good enough grades to get into college, even if the military is funding it.

I thought it over more, though, especially after he responded with some facts. He said that I could enlist as a non-combatant, and be safe behind a computer, not even fighting at all. He also said that I would have lifetime military benefits. But what really got me was his justification of serving in the military, even while opposed to America. He said that I wouldn't be fighting for my country, but fighting for myself, and for a better life. I really couldn't think of anything to rebut this.

So after thinking about it, I really can't decide. What do you think? Should I join the military?

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 06:43 pm
ut what really got me was his justification of serving in the military, even while opposed to America. He said that I wouldn't be fighting for my country, but fighting for myself, and for a better life.
I understand about the money, but I don't understand this argument at all.

Whatever your subjective motive for joining, you do what you're ordered. You fight for whatever they order you to fight for.

Also, whatever promises the recruiter makes, about noncombat positions or training or whatever - those promises are not necessarily binding. Once you're in the army, they can order you to do whatever they want.

[Jude]

NO! And my rebutal is this: If you do NOT join the military, you are fighting for something far more important... your principles.

And a lifetime of benefits? Please. They can't even provide a mold- and disease-free hospital!

[( R )evolution]

The only way I would join the military is to get training for the future revolution :)

[Chicano Shamrock]

What you would be doing in the army is helping kill poor people. Whether you are at a computer finding positions to bomb or you have an M16 in hand you are helping kill poor people.

Joining the military will not give you a better life. Go to an alcoholics anonymous meeting and ask how many are veterans. You can make better money without having to kill people. Plus your grades don't matter if you aren't trying to get into Yale or USC or something. If you don't get a diploma go get your GED. To get a GED you take a couple really easy middle school level tests. You can go to community college without even having a diploma or GED. Then from community college you can transfer to a University. High School will not make or break your life.

When ending high school you can have a lot of anxiety and you may feel that you are uncertain about the future but if you join the military you could be throwing your life away. Once you sign the contract they own you and there is no pulling out. If the US starts a war with Iran tomorrow and there aren't enough infantry troops guess where you will be serving.

[ExpansiveThought]

I'm sure even as a 'cyber-soldier' youll still be subject to basic training which'll suck unless your in shape/want to be. Furthermore, as has been pointed out, the point of the military is innately to learn to kill, train to kill, and to kill. Especially in the modern USA's imperialist quest for global hegemony. I think the binary opposite, and much wiser choice is to adopt a life of buddhism. Read some self help books and think about applying to college as a mature student. Take time off and find out what YOU actually want to do. Not that i know where your coming from or whatever im just saying man killing people is wrong (unless in order to exact signifigant political change in circumstances where democratic means have clearly proven futile) and its important to be true to yourself.

[manic expression]

From what I've heard, they'll use anyone in combat zones now. I was talking to someone whose son was part of a bridge-repair company, but didn't see one bridge his entire tour of duty in Iraq.

Recruiters will say ANYTHING to get you to sign on the dotted line. And once you do, you are basically their property for the next 4 years (or more). The job of a military recruiter is to lie, especially today.

Those are a few things off the top of my head, but even though my future doesn't look too solid, the fact is that the military is not a sound choice at this point.

[RASHskins]

Yea man i know where you are coming from i got asked the same question by my parents to fight for the canadain army. Don't do it man don't throw your life away, they lie and make it seem all great that they are gonna pay for your education. But think of it this way once your dead they don't gotta pay for you.

[Floyce White]

It is not necessary to join the military in order to get money for college. Anyone can get exactly the same "tuition benefits" without doing a hitch. In some states, you can attend community college without graduating high school. Other states require a diploma or GED. It's not expensive if you take only one or two courses a semester. No need to overload yourself anyway.

If your family has low or average income, you can get federal and state financial aid for college. If they have high income, you can get aid if you live apart from your family for two years, aren't claimed as their tax dependent, and have low income yourself.

If you can't keep living with your parents after turning 18, get some stupid job and rent a room or share an apartment. That's how everybody else does it.

Saying that you "have to" join the military due to economic need is a convenient excuse. You "have to" get a job. The military is just one of many possible jobs. I'm against poor youth joining the military because I'm against poor people killing each other.

On the other hand, if you score high on the military entrance tests, you might get on the track to become a technician or clerk, and get a relatively easy job with slightly better pay after a year or so. Half of the military is in non-combat positions anyway. There are worse ways to waste your youth.

Slaves aren't responsible for what they're ordered to do. Don't buy into the nonsense where the little rich brats play superior and say that poor youth in the military are responsible for military acts. Everybody knows about the chain of command.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by Floyce [email protected] 21, 2007 10:28 pm
Slaves aren't responsible for what they're ordered to do. Don't buy into the nonsense where the little rich brats play superior and say that poor youth in the military are responsible for military acts. Everybody knows about the chain of command.
Slaves aren't responsible for what they are ordered to do but they are responsible for choosing to follow those orders.

[Tower of Bebel]

Do not join the army to become a professional soldier. There's nothing good about it, certainly when you're eather marxist or anarchist. If you're not very conscious or smart then the military will certainly brainwash you.

[( R )evolution]

Originally posted by Floyce [email protected] 22, 2007 06:28 am
Slaves aren't responsible for what they're ordered to do. Don't buy into the nonsense where the little rich brats play superior and say that poor youth in the military are responsible for military acts. Everybody knows about the chain of command.
Waiitttt a minute. Just because someone joins the military because they are poor does not mean that they should be atomically given free pass to kill. I understand why poorer people would join the military and I am strongly against them joining the military because I see that there are better routes to excel in life than joining the military. The poor youth have no control over what commands are given to them but they do have the responsibility for choosing to follow the command.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

I am failing almost every class in school, my teachers know me for my poor work ethic rather than my intelligence, my parents treat me like an idiot, and i'm completely miserable. I have no chance of getting into any colleges at this point.




Actually, I don't know how much school you have left, but ummmm...is there a chance you could work on those grades a bit? Maybe try and improve stuff?

I know this sounds stupid but ummm...if you need help with homework, PM someone who could help. :(

Actually, no, try and look at the other options that people have mentioned. Community colleges and all...surely there's SOME way out?

I thought you guys get financial aid from the state. I mean, you don't have to join the best college in the world, now do you?

[Tekun]

Not all of us are natural students or scholars, not all of us need college to thrive and enjoy life
College is for those who choose to study at a higher level, its not made for everyone, and as such not going shouldn't determine how you live your life
College in most instances does not improve nor bring into focus a person's life, therefore the way u better your life does not depend on a higher level of education
And living your life is the least you'll be able to enjoy if u join the military
When u join the armed forces, you become a government slave
You're told when to eat, when to speak, when to shoot, who to shoot
Why do u need the military to improve your life? If anything, they'll ruin your life
Combat or not, if you're not told who to shoot (which is not a gurantee if u join), that obedience to a higher rank takes away from your identity and independence
What is it about the military that gives us the opportunity to fight for a better life?
Its a fallacy, nothing at all
You could fight just as much without enlisting
Don't fall for the typical emotionally-laced arguments that recruiters throw out there, regardless of who repeats them

Think and act for yourself....u don't need the military to improve your life
Don't rely on others to help u, do it yourself
Rather than helping u organize and improve your life, the military will actually cripple you

[RebelDog]

Don't become cannon-fodder for the bourgeoise. When you leave the US to fight 'insurgents' in whatever country the US happens to be looting at the time, you will have left the real enemy back home. An army in a capitalist country fights for the interests of the ruling class of that country. I might be producing surplus value for them, but I'm fucked if I'm dying for the bastards.

[Tower of Bebel]

I went to what we in Belgium call the 'defence house', because where I live the army is officialy called 'defence - priority to peace'. The 'defence house' is just a recruting bureau.
As some of you might know I'm in the army reserve of Belgium, and I recently found I that I cannot combine my studies with my annual training course. Therefor I decided today to inform the army - 'defence' - that I wanted to quit and focus on my studies. I'll propably go back after I succeeded at university - that's what I said to the officer at the desk of the recruting bureau.

[Cheung Mo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 05:08 am
Yea man i know where you are coming from i got asked the same question by my parents to fight for the canadain army. Don't do it man don't throw your life away, they lie and make it seem all great that they are gonna pay for your education. But think of it this way once your dead they don't gotta pay for you.
I would enlist if we were building a strong, sovereign military to keeps us independent of Washington's influence (I consider Chavezism a superior approach to national defence than pacificism.): But since that's too radical an idea for even the NDP Socialist Caucus to entertain, it's not going to fucking happen.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 07:43 pm
For several years now, my parents have been bugging me about my life, my future, and how I'm going to live it. I have only recently started to consider my life after high school, and for me it looks pretty uncertain. I am failing almost every class in school, my teachers know me for my poor work ethic rather than my intelligence, my parents treat me like an idiot, and i'm completely miserable. I have no chance of getting into any colleges at this point.

My brother recently pointed out to me that the U.S. Military will pay for college tuition. Of course, to anyone in my position, this would seem like a godsend. But I, not believing in either god OR my country, turned this down, saying that 1) If I were sent into battle, I would have a high likelihood of dying, 2) I would be serving my country, which I have no faith in, and 3) I do not have good enough grades to get into college, even if the military is funding it.

I thought it over more, though, especially after he responded with some facts. He said that I could enlist as a non-combatant, and be safe behind a computer, not even fighting at all. He also said that I would have lifetime military benefits. But what really got me was his justification of serving in the military, even while opposed to America. He said that I wouldn't be fighting for my country, but fighting for myself, and for a better life. I really couldn't think of anything to rebut this.

So after thinking about it, I really can't decide. What do you think? Should I join the military?
What we think isn't important. Do what you want to do. Do some reaserch other than millitary.com. Talk to some vets. Read some books. Good luck.

[Lenin II]

Hmm. I posted here once, but I don’t see it now. Must’ve either not gotten through, or else I pissed the wrong people off. Well, what I said before was, you cannot control where they put you, and even if you are behind a computer you are still supporting the capitalist, imperialist aggressor war machine.
This war exists because of one thing, money, as in billions, as in no-bid contracts, as in 8.8 billion given to government contractors just disappearing, as in the largest defense budget ever, as in I believe that Halliburton is rotten to the core.

[ExpansiveThought]

go to your local library and get "All Quiet on The Western Front" by Erich Maria Remarque

[Cryotank Screams]

It sounds like your being sucked up into his clearly American military propaganda, they use the excuse of "college," and other lies, to get people like you, who haven't really figure out the future yet, sucked up into this hope, and false guidance, don't join, go to college, and if you need it, there are DOZENS of scholarships you are eligible for, that would help you out, not to mention, you can figure out what you want to do there.

[midnight marauder]

I think something of importance for american comrades, which I don't think has been brought up yet (or maybe I missed it), is that a substantial portion of recruits who enter the military and leave with their life don't ever recieve many of the benefits promised by the american military complex's propaganda. This includes, especially, college tuitions:


This bonus program, known as the Montgomery GI Bill - Army/Navy College Fund, is in reality, according to an August 27, 2004 press release from the US Army Recruiting Command, only available to those who qualify with high test scores, sign up for what the military deems "critical" military specialties (critical usually means hardest to fill and least desirable), and enlist for at least six years of active military duty. Approximately 95% of those who enter the military are not eligible for this maximum amount.


In fact, 57% of the veterans who signed up for the Montgomery GI Bill (MGIB) have never seen a penny in college assistance, and the average net payout to veterans has been only $2151. Primarily, the low average net is the result of the many military personnel who the Department of Defense (DoD) declares ineligible, and of the challenges faced by veterans trying to access the promised money even if they are eligible.

Just a few statistics I pulled up from quick google search. The source on that was http://www.peaceworkmagazine.org/pwork/0506/050607.htm (I don't know how credible this is, but the facts are echoed all across magazine, journals, research studies, books, the internet...)

Here's some more sites on education and the military:

http://www.themmob.org/lmca/lmca_forms/dow...d_recruiter.pdf (http://www.themmob.org/lmca/lmca_forms/download_recruiter.pdf)

http://www.objector.org/before-you-enlist/gi-bill.html

[OneBrickOneVoice]

don't do it. What grade are you in? You should immediatly find a tutor, ask you teachers for extra credit, ask them if you can make up work etc..., you should consider getting some sort of job to save for college like babysitter, and if your smart but don't give a fuck about school; tutor. There are always community colleges which are considerably easier to get into and give you a big bonus compared to having no college education. That said there are a ton of jobs you can get without a college education.

[RNK]

There are good reasons to join the military.

None of yours are good.

Do it, and you will be turning your back on the people of the world.

[Tower of Bebel]

There are certain advantages

1. Brotherhood
2. First aid and health care
3. (If teached correctly) The ability to safely handle a gun
4. Sports
5. Discipline

Disadvantages

1. False intentions. You learn to kill, not only to safe yourself but also to kill
2. Follow orders, at all costs 'if necessairy'
3. No connection with the outher world: your only opinion is that of the State
4. You are being used by the state
5. No political view is allowed, and noone will ask your opinion.*

It's a life that can be compared to 1984 if you ask me :P
* When I was in training (reserve) the war between Israel and Libanon broke out. There's war with libanon we were told, and that's all. War seemed necessairy.

[southernmissfan]

First off, I'd like to point out to anyone and everyone that you shouldn't believe anything a recruiter tells you. And former military recruiters have told me this as well. They will make you a lot of promises but you shouldn't bank on it.

Second, I think you really have to look at your principles. Joining the Army is as bad, if not worse than being a cop or scab. While there are many reasons why some people join the military, and no doubt many were poor workers (the military specifically targets workers, especially minorities). But that doesn't change your role in society--you are an employee of the ruling class, and your job is to fight workers.

Honestly, the worst thing you could do is join the military. And I'm not just saying this from an idealogical standpoint either. Even if you don't get sent to combat, that doesn't change the fact that you essentially hand over your life to the government, and you'll learn that many of their promises are never fulfilled. Others have already mentioned alternatives. As already mentioned, look into a GED if you don't think you can graduate. If you feel college is necessary, look at your local community/junior college or a tech school. Admission is open, at least for community colleges and tuition is a lot less than 4 year universities. Also, it is much easier to transfer to a 4 year college than get admitted as a freshmen.

[sarixe]

Hey all, I have good news for you. I've decided NOT to join the military. rejoice.

[Lenin II]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 09:38 pm
Hey all, I have good news for you. I've decided NOT to join the military. rejoice.
I do, comrade. Believe me, I do.