Hinduism

[RedStarOverChina]

I want to gain a degree of understanding about Hinduism. I know the basics of it, like the caste system, reincarnation and all that jazz.

Please give me some insights into the nature of the religion---Especially if there are some Indian atheist comrades around. Otherwise, a link would do just fine.

Thank you. :)

P.S. If you have stuff on Sikhism or Jainism, show me that also.

[manic expression]

I've learned a lot about Hinduism (much of it growing up in an area with a considerable Indian community), and I'll try to share what I know.

OK, you should first know that "Hinduism" is a very general term. The saying goes that if you ask 10 Hindus the same question, you'll get 20 different answers. Hinduism is a VERY diverse and non-dogmatic religion (if you can even call it a religion).

The first key concept is that everything is divine. You, your friend, the rain, the rock outside are ALL divine. Everything IS god, and god IS everything (so yes, according to Hinduism, you are god). So an important part of this is that everything is connected and ultimately one.

This has to do with reincarnation. Hinduism recognizes that the physical world works in cycles: things begin, exist and end. However, the divine does not die at all, it transcends this cycle of birth, life and death. Think of the law of conservation of matter/energy: nothing really begins or ends, it simply continues in a different form. The divine soul manifests itself in physical form; therefore, your body is simply the physical manifestation of what you really are, and you took the forms of countless bodies before.

By the way, the fancy word for "soul" is atman.

Next, the concepts of Karma and Dharma are VERY important. Karma is just like the third law of motion: every action has an equal and opposite reaction. There are consequences to your actions, and what you do will ultimately come back to you. This can get pretty complicated, but one thing that you should remember is that Hindus do not try to figure out what a person's karma is, not even wise men can do that. If someone is born into a life of poverty, Hindus do not say that they "deserved it"; why? Because there are many explanations as to why that would happen, and it would be unreasonable to make assumptions about someone's life.

Dharma translates roughly to "duty". Dharma is what you need to do in this life. Hindus believe that everything has its purpose, just all parts of the ecosystem play a vital role, so do we in our environment.

Now, Dharma used to be applied to the caste system, which is simply a feudal system that developed relatively recently (it actually developed in a similar way to the European feudal system). Hinduism had been around for a LONG time before the caste system came into being, and Hinduism exists without it both in "modern" parts of India and in immigrant populations abroad. The caste system was something that came about because of invasions and other events, but also because of economic changes. There are a few things that most people don't know. First, caste was not and is not a fixed thing. The Indian government is constantly reshuffling the definitions of different castes, because they keep shifting in society. Secondly, caste is just the practice of passing one's occupation down the paternal line. Third, those highest on the traditional caste system are teachers and priests, not rulers and soldiers. It did have terrible parts to it, including the treatment of the dalits, but things have radically changed today (where capitalism has taken hold).

Those are just a few things about Hinduism. Sikhism is basically a fusion of Hindu thought and Islamic thought (although Sikhs and Muslims are not on very friendly terms, since the Muslims persecuted them a LOT back in the day). Jainism is all about non-violence. Jains do not eat meat OR any plant that needs to be killed during harvest (so they don't kill anything). Jainism has affected Hinduism heavily, as Hindus in the Western parts of India are mostly vegetarian as a result of Jainism's influence (other parts of India aren't nearly as vegetarian).

I hope that helps.

[Vargha Poralli]

Hinduism cannot be said to be a religion in the sense Christianity,Islam and other religions are classified. It is a collective name given to at least some 10 different religions. The Name Hindu is derived from Farsi which means people who live beyond Sindhu(Indus in Pakistan today) river.

The nature of Hinduism itself is very much complex. Some practices are believed to be surviving from the time of Indus Valley civilization. Some new practices are added even today.Hindus even worship Jesus and Allah if they are allowed to by Church and Mosque aithorities.This church allows Hindus and Muslims to worship there without converting from their faith. (http://www.vailankannichurch.org/)

Caste system originally developed as a division of Labour. The Brahmin or preist class has a specific job, the Kshatriyas are warrior and soldier caste , the Vaishyas or traders class and the Shudras which comprised of farmers,workers etc.

The caste system was not originally meant to be rigid system. A Brahmin can become a Kshatriya or a Vaishya can become a Shudra and a Shudra can become Brahmins etc. It was belived to be rigidised later shortly before the rise of Maurya's and the fifth class Outcastes or Dalits were formed during the said period which originally comprised of outcastes from all castes as the system became rigidised and any body who would deviate or challenge it become outcastes.

The caste system became a parasite as it spread throughout India and it even managed to affect the monotheistic Islam and Christianity. The caste system became out of bounds to Hinduism even every attempt to get rid of it from within have not met with success during the British rule.

Some sects such as Advaitis,Vishiadvaitis and Kabalika sects are very much monotheistic they recognise all other deities except Brahman as manifestations of the Brahman. All human beings are atmans who sole aim must be acheving oneness with Brahman through meditation,deed and lifestyle.

Tantric belief system preaches that a person must achive oneness with the soul by leading a perfect life.

But with recent Industrialisation during both British and Capitalist Indians rule the spread of education and modernity have made the divisions to blurr greatly. The Knock out might come with socialist revolution.

The nature of Hindusim is diverse and that is the reason i suspect that despite its ineffiencies it managed to survive some 7 centuries of Islamic rule and 3 centuries of Christian rule. So even for atheists it would be very hard to knock it down with out knocking down the material conditions which enables all religion to gain power.

Jainism is an offshoot of Hinduism more or less equal to Buddhism. It was founded and bases on the principles of a sage Vardhmana Mahavira.The only difference between it and Buddhism is that it didn't spread out of India like the later more because it is very much demanding in morals,practice and ethics.

Sikhism is a religious sect which was based on the teachings of 10 Gurus during the Mughal period.I don't know n\much about it.

************************************************** *


*Other sources I have read off is Biased in either way. What I have given is my own observation and understandings as Hindu myself.Some of the points may contradict "official sources" about Hinduism. Each sect claims itself as superior to others so it is difficult to anybody outside this system to understand.

* I would also like to know about how you have understood reincarnation. There are more than a dozen explanations given regarding it and I myself don't know about everything much.

* I don't consider myself an Atheist but more as an Agnostic.

[RedStarOverChina]

First of all, thank you for your informative reply. I learn a lot, and here are some of my thoughts:


Dharma translates roughly to "duty". Dharma is what you need to do in this life. Hindus believe that everything has its purpose, just all parts of the ecosystem play a vital role, so do we in our environment.

Now, Dharma used to be applied to the caste system, which is simply a feudal system that developed relatively recently (it actually developed in a similar way to the European feudal system).

A lot of Hindus to this day believe in this.

They say, businessmen have to do business, policemen have to do policing, workers have to work. What's implied, of course, is that slaves have to keep being slaves. That's probably why the problems of the Dalits are still unresolved.

I find this idea most disgusting. And I hope you will agree that the role of Hinduism in Indian communities is that of a extremely reactionary one.


The first key concept is that everything is divine. You, your friend, the rain, the rock outside are ALL divine. Everything IS god, and god IS everything (so yes, according to Hinduism, you are god). So an important part of this is that everything is connected and ultimately one.

What effects does this particular belief has on Indian communities and the mentalities of Hindus?


Jainism is all about non-violence. Jains do not eat meat OR any plant that needs to be killed during harvest (so they don't kill anything).

:blink: What DO they eat?

[Vargha Poralli]

What DO they eat?

Full vegetarian stuff just like 70% hindus.

The main diffrence between Hindu and Jain diet is Jains don't take Onions(2 reasons one the chemical which is released when peeling it off will kill micro organisms) and generally all root vegetables like potato,radish etc. and they don't use leather products as far as possible.

All hindus and Jains take milk and though unlike vegans of the west.


The first key concept is that everything is divine. You, your friend, the rain, the rock outside are ALL divine. Everything IS god, and god IS everything (so yes, according to Hinduism, you are god). So an important part of this is that everything is connected and ultimately one.


No it is the principle of Advaithis not all Hindus. It has a very small following as they don't preach their doctrines.

[RedStarOverChina]

Thank you for the background information. I have little to agree or disagree with you about, because of course, much of what you said is history and some are news to me.


* I would also like to know about how you have understood reincarnation. There are more than a dozen explanations given regarding it and I myself don't know about everything much.

I understood it through Buddhism--Which agrees with the (mainstream, perhaps?)Hindu notion of reincarnation.

When I was in China I lived 10 mins away from a famous religious "relic", a Buddhist temple. Some 60 years ago a couple of Buddhist monks obtained by hiring street thugs to kick out the Daoists who previously occupied it. They say it was quite a fight. :)


But I digress.

The Buddhist abbot always emphasized to me how "reincarnation is a fact"---Whenever I'm not shooting at him with my slingshot, anyways.

Reincarnation according to the Buddhists who claim to have learned it from the Hindus, is basically the continuing cycle of "rebirth". When you are a good Buddhist/Hindu and do good deeds in this life, you will be rich and famous in the next. If you are bad, then you are going to have an agonizing existence, or even worse---you might become an animal or an insect in your next life.

However, Buddhists say life is painful even if your karma in the previous life is good. And their ultimate goal is to escape reincarnation and become "buddhas".


What are some of the other "version" of reincarnation?

[manic expression]

A lot of Hindus to this day believe in this.

They say, businessmen have to do business, policemen have to do policing, workers have to work. What's implied, of course, is that slaves have to keep being slaves. That's probably why the problems of the Dalits are still unresolved.

I find this idea most disgusting. And I hope you will agree that the role of Hinduism in Indian communities is that of a extremely reactionary one.

Yes, when someone supports a given system, their application of dharma will be reactionary (as it mandates that people do what they do). At the same time, this does not make dharma itself reactionary, since a Hindu could easily say that their dharma is to change society (ie Phoolan Devi). Today in India, the elitist mentality is such that poverty is the new untouchability. It is definitely a problem, but an individual's view of dharma will change as their view of present society changes.

Where'd you get slavery from? The caste system is only strong in uneducated, rural and very poor areas, and that is where you find caste abuse. In the cities and places where people are educated, it is MUCH different. Basically, India today is all about capitalism, and so you'll find that Hindu ideas are applied in a bourgeois way; if the economic system changes, you can bet the family farm that the application of Hindu ideas will change with it.


What effects does this particular belief has on Indian communities and the mentalities of Hindus?

Well, it has a lot of effects. For one, Hindus are pretty tolerant and open-minded about other religions. To a lot of Hindus, dividing lines between religions are inconsequential, since every way of praying to god is praying to god.


:blink: What DO they eat?

All fruits and any vegetable that isn't rooted (so I think corn is OK, for example, while potatos are not).

[manic expression]

No it is the principle of Advaithis not all Hindus. It has a very small following as they don't preach their doctrines.

My mistake. Two things: I thought that kind of view was more Vaisheshika than Advaithi. Second, don't other Vedanta schools think roughly the same thing?

[seraphim]

The one thing I do Like about Sikhism as I understand it is that they are under a devine command to protect people who are weeker and less fortunate than themselves. If for example you were getting your ass kicked by a bunch of other people and a Sikh were to walk past they would get stuck in, in your defense no matter how outnumbered. That can't be a bad thing.

[RedStarOverChina]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 12:11 pm
The one thing I do Like about Sikhism as I understand it is that they are under a devine command to protect people who are weeker and less fortunate than themselves. If for example you were getting your ass kicked by a bunch of other people and a Sikh were to walk past they would get stuck in, in your defense no matter how outnumbered. That can't be a bad thing.
Actually, don't bet on it. :)

I have a Sikh friend and he's not exactly the kind of person I could count on. :rolleyes:

With religious people, they always boast how their religion makes them a better person. But I have yet to meet some religious person more willing to help others than myself.

[RedStarOverChina]

Of course, Sikhs have a long military tradition and are said to be some of the finest soldiers in India. So it depends if it's one of those guy that walks around with a ceremonial sword.

[ichneumon]

Reincarnation is not a simple physical birth of a person; for instance, John being reborn as a cat in the next life. In this case John possesses an immortal soul which transforms to the form of a cat after his death. This cycle is repeated over and over again. Or if he is lucky, he will be reborn as a human being. This notion of the transmigration of the soul definitely does not exist in Buddhism.

that being said, buddhism is what buddhist believe. many of the buddhists in the east have fallen into dogmatism and deity worship. the buddha strictly prohibited both. do i get to say that catholics are not christians because they don't follow each and every word of the new testament? no. whatever.

[paneer]

Originally posted by manic [email protected] 20, 2007 03:52 pm
I've learned a lot about Hinduism (much of it growing up in an area with a considerable Indian community), and I'll try to share what I know.

OK, you should first know that "Hinduism" is a very general term. The saying goes that if you ask 10 Hindus the same question, you'll get 20 different answers. Hinduism is a VERY diverse and non-dogmatic religion (if you can even call it a religion).

The first key concept is that everything is divine. You, your friend, the rain, the rock outside are ALL divine. Everything IS god, and god IS everything (so yes, according to Hinduism, you are god). So an important part of this is that everything is connected and ultimately one.

This has to do with reincarnation. Hinduism recognizes that the physical world works in cycles: things begin, exist and end. However, the divine does not die at all, it transcends this cycle of birth, life and death. Think of the law of conservation of matter/energy: nothing really begins or ends, it simply continues in a different form. The divine soul manifests itself in physical form; therefore, your body is simply the physical manifestation of what you really are, and you took the forms of countless bodies before.

By the way, the fancy word for "soul" is atman.

Next, the concepts of Karma and Dharma are VERY important. Karma is just like the third law of motion: every action has an equal and opposite reaction. There are consequences to your actions, and what you do will ultimately come back to you. This can get pretty complicated, but one thing that you should remember is that Hindus do not try to figure out what a person's karma is, not even wise men can do that. If someone is born into a life of poverty, Hindus do not say that they "deserved it"; why? Because there are many explanations as to why that would happen, and it would be unreasonable to make assumptions about someone's life.

Dharma translates roughly to "duty". Dharma is what you need to do in this life. Hindus believe that everything has its purpose, just all parts of the ecosystem play a vital role, so do we in our environment.

Now, Dharma used to be applied to the caste system, which is simply a feudal system that developed relatively recently (it actually developed in a similar way to the European feudal system). Hinduism had been around for a LONG time before the caste system came into being, and Hinduism exists without it both in "modern" parts of India and in immigrant populations abroad. The caste system was something that came about because of invasions and other events, but also because of economic changes. There are a few things that most people don't know. First, caste was not and is not a fixed thing. The Indian government is constantly reshuffling the definitions of different castes, because they keep shifting in society. Secondly, caste is just the practice of passing one's occupation down the paternal line. Third, those highest on the traditional caste system are teachers and priests, not rulers and soldiers. It did have terrible parts to it, including the treatment of the dalits, but things have radically changed today (where capitalism has taken hold).

Those are just a few things about Hinduism. Sikhism is basically a fusion of Hindu thought and Islamic thought (although Sikhs and Muslims are not on very friendly terms, since the Muslims persecuted them a LOT back in the day). Jainism is all about non-violence. Jains do not eat meat OR any plant that needs to be killed during harvest (so they don't kill anything). Jainism has affected Hinduism heavily, as Hindus in the Western parts of India are mostly vegetarian as a result of Jainism's influence (other parts of India aren't nearly as vegetarian).

I hope that helps.
well being a hindu myself I had no idea it was this diverse,I guess am from new delhi and most hindu guys like me are not very religious..but it was interesting to know about my religion from a different perspective