President of Gambia speaks with ancestors in dream

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

At the only hospital in the capital of this tiny West African nation, a 3-year-old AIDS patient named Suleiman receives his daily dose of medication -- a murky brown concoction of seven herbs and spices served out of a bottle that once contained pancake syrup.

The boy is told a spoonful a day will make him better. His mother, Fatuma, takes the same concoction, as do several dozen other AIDS and HIV patients here. Adults take two spoonfuls.

"It's amazing," Fatuma says. "Two weeks ago, I was very ill, weak and couldn't eat without vomiting."

This has become the treatment for HIV/AIDS patients here since early January, when Gambian President Yahya Jammeh announced he had discovered a cure for the disease that has wreaked havoc across Africa. He made that announcement in front of a group of foreign diplomats, telling them the treatment was revealed to him by his ancestors in a dream.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/03/15...rica/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/03/15/koinange.africa/index.html)

Is this guy trippin' or this is this thing for reals?

[Vanguard1917]

Yes, this was in the news a couple of weeks ago. Western commentators should not flatter themselves though. Wackos like President Yahya Jammeh may be easy to criticise, but his suggestions are not all that different from, say, fairly mainstream demands in British middle class circles that the NHS should fund 'alternative' and 'complementary' medication.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The linked article is from today.

[Comrade J]

Well any effects are surely placebo effects. It may seem good, as the AIDs sufferers have a certain level of hope and relief, but it just means less pressure on drug companies and organisations to provide real effective medicine.

[Boriznov]

Why wouldn't herbs be able to cure a sickness ? Nature has been and still is full with cures for diseases. It could be a placebo effect but we will see with time.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 02:09 pm
Why wouldn't herbs be able to cure a sickness ?
Some herbs can help cure sickness, yes but a collection of herbs told to some nutjob in a damned dream is not exactly my number one in the list of things with which to cure AIDS. I'm afraid things like cancers and aids need a bit more than some mumbo-jumbo soup.


Nature has been and still is full with cures for diseases.

No one is denying this, but to treat AIDS with this crap is just insane.


It could be a placebo effect but we will see with time.

Of course we will fucking see with time. We'll see people die of AIDS because they went for this idiot "cure", hell there may even be an increase in AIDS sufferers as a result of people having unprotected sex under the placebo-induced delusion that they are disease free.

[Janus]

If this guy seriously believes this, then this nation has a lot more to worry about then just a fake placebo.

The only known/tested treatment for HIV at the moment are antiretroviral drugs and they certainly aren't herbs yet few people in Africa can afford this kind of treatment.

[Sentinel]

Well as this is 'cure' is quite obviously bullshit, based on superstitious beliefs, I think the Religion & Theology forum might be a far more appropriate place for this discussion than Sciences and Environment.

It is indeed alarming that the head of a nation comes up with claims like this, potentially spreading this modern plague even further on a continent already severely ravaged by it.

The damage his statements may cause is however unlikely to come even close to that pope John Paul II did back in his time by speaking against the usage of condoms -- as his audience is counted in billions. :(

[CodeAires]

Hey, any kind of real relief is good relief. It may be for real, we don't know.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 01:46 pm
Hey, any kind of real relief is good relief. It may be for real, we don't know.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/Jazzratt/normal_no.jpg' alt='' width='400' height='320' class='attach' /> (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/Jazzratt/normal_no.jpg)
it is NOT good enough to say this kind of thing. The cure will not work, AIDS is a very complex disease which is not cured by some silly soup what's more is this is dangerous as I pointed out before, people will take this believe that they are cured and then [i]go on to have sex believing themselves "safe" and thus infecting more people.

[wtfm8lol]

Some herbs can help cure sickness, yes but a collection of herbs told to some nutjob in a damned dream is not exactly my number one in the list of things with which to cure AIDS. I'm afraid things like cancers and aids need a bit more than some mumbo-jumbo soup.

if you dont mind me asking, where did you go to medical school?

[razboz]

I don't think anyone knows for sure whether or not this can work. But the chances of it actually being a cure are very low. It would be safest not to take that shit. I wouldn't be surprised if the mixture was some psychotropic potion that doped the patients into thinking they were cured. Or something.

I wouldnt put it past a president to do that. Maybe a first step towards creating a cult?

[wtfm8lol]

you make conspiracy theorists across the world ruin their pants

[razboz]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 04:45 pm
you make conspiracy theorists across the world ruin their pants
why?

[wtfm8lol]

I wouldn't be surprised if the mixture was some psychotropic potion that doped the patients into thinking they were cured.
Maybe a first step towards creating a cult?

[razboz]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 05:39 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if the mixture was some psychotropic potion that doped the patients into thinking they were cured.
Maybe a first step towards creating a cult?
Haha.

Crazier things have happened. i mean seriously tkaing a mixture of herbs defnitely sounds dodgy to me. If the patients say they feel "better" after the cure then what does that say about its effect? It shows that the cure makes the patient feel better, which (unless it actually cures AIDS) means that it causes them to think its cured them Which would tend towards my theory that the cure might be a psychoactive drug. there are plenty of wild plants that have some pretty crazy effects on your mind.

Also anyone who invents the cure for aids is bound to have some weight and if he wanted to use it he could have a legions of loyal supporters just because they think he has a direct line with the ACnestors and can deliver miracles to them. Once again crazier things have happened (Catholicism anyone?)

[freakazoid]

Have they actually checked the patients to see if they still have AIDS? I wonder if he will even let testing be done.

[wtfm8lol]

Originally posted by razboz+March 28, 2007 12:53 pm--> (razboz @ March 28, 2007 12:53 pm)
[email protected] 28, 2007 05:39 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if the mixture was some psychotropic potion that doped the patients into thinking they were cured.
Maybe a first step towards creating a cult?
Haha.

Crazier things have happened. i mean seriously tkaing a mixture of herbs defnitely sounds dodgy to me. If the patients say they feel "better" after the cure then what does that say about its effect? It shows that the cure makes the patient feel better, which (unless it actually cures AIDS) means that it causes them to think its cured them Which would tend towards my theory that the cure might be a psychoactive drug. there are plenty of wild plants that have some pretty crazy effects on your mind.

Also anyone who invents the cure for aids is bound to have some weight and if he wanted to use it he could have a legions of loyal supporters just because they think he has a direct line with the ACnestors and can deliver miracles to them. Once again crazier things have happened (Catholicism anyone?) [/b]
i dont mean to argue that the drug isn't screwing with their minds; it very well could be. im arguing that its quite unlikely that the president of the gambia is doping aids patients into joining a cult.

[razboz]

why not? it makes sense.

[wtfm8lol]

and that line of thinking is why i said you make conspiracy theorists across the world ejaculate inside their pants.

[Vanguard1917]

Yes, we all know that the Gambian President is wrong: there is no scientific evidence that his special potion is effective in treating HIV/AIDS, whereas there is plenty of scientific evidence that antiretroviral drugs are. Africans desperately need adequate access to antiretroviral drugs to control the AIDS problem - a disease which is largely under control in the developed world. It is an outrage that millions of people in the world suffer needlessly from a treatable disease.

But such anti-science and anti-rationalist attitudes are fairly prevalent in the West also. There is some support in the Britain, for example, for National Health Service funding for 'alternative medicine'. We're seeing an increase in university courses in subjects like 'homeopathy science' (link (http://education.independent.co.uk/news/article2381073.ece)). There are people in Britain (like Prince Charles) who call for Gerson Therapy (which consists of 'fresh organic carrot apple or broccoli juice, vegetarian food, weekly injections of liver extract and vitamin B12, and five coffee or camomile enemas a day') instead of chemotherapy for treating cancer. As one cancer specialiast points out, such alternative medication is 'very popular among the higher end of the middle classes, partly because it's expensive and because there's an element of religious mania to it.' (link (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1248282,00.html))

The truth is that the world leaders in irrationalism today are Western, not African. The sad thing is, of course, that the people who suffer the most from such irrationalism are the world's poorest and most deprived - not priviledged Westerners.

[ichneumon]

for once, you have a point - i was reading about the homeopathy stuff in Nature. please start a new thread.

[Publius]

Well, I'm glad that problem is solved.