Its frightening really...

[Ihavenoidea]

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/

-THIS SITE is a slideshow/movie packed with quotes and saying from various islamic teaching and leaders.... Please watch the whole thing and read the whole thing.



http://islam-watch.org/index.html

-THIS SITE is a site made and compiled by ex-muslims, with stories on why they turned away, Islam and sexism, how to leave the faith and much much more.

I found these to be quite good... I wont comment because most of you know my stand, but I will continue to compile an opposition. For the record.. I am against all religions. they are a rediculous security blanket of DOOM (control and opression), but this is just me, what about you?

[Vargha Poralli]

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/


This whole site is ridiculous on many issues. Number one Muslim Brotherhood is not the single controlling body of Islam.

It forgets comforatbly the fact this same followers of Muslim brotherhood(Zawhahiri and Osama) received funds from the USA for their efforts to help the Mujhahedden fighting against the Soviet Controlled Afghanistan.

There are many Zionist lies too. Pity this site didn't know that Hamas was no where near power in early days of palestinian struggle and initially received funding from Mossad to to break up the Paletinisn struggle between it and PLO.

It never mentions a thing about the most reactionary Muslim Regime Saudi-Arabia which receives a hell a lot of support from the US.

Yet another thing is this "IslamoFascist" Jihadis are do not have as much support among Muslims as they are portrayed by this website.There are hell a lot of Muslims in the country I live in and I am yet to meet a Islamofascist.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Ihavenoidea

You do know how hysterical you are?

you have totally fallen for all the bourgeoisie's propaganda.

The vast majority of Muslims in this world are totally upstanding people who are just trying to get on with their lives.

How about attacking western Christians, it would seem much less racist.

[Vargha Poralli]

http://islam-watch.org/index.html


I really don't know about others who have renounced Islam mentioned in this site but Taslima Nasreen still considers herself to a muslim. She just calls for reforming Islam from within and still continues to work for upliftment of Muslim Women in WestBengal.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 12:49 pm

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/


This whole site is ridiculous on many issues. Number one Muslim Brotherhood is not the single controlling body of Islam.

It forgets comforatbly the fact this same followers of Muslim brotherhood(Zawhahiri and Osama) received funds from the USA for their efforts to help the Mujhahedden fighting against the Soviet Controlled Afghanistan.

There are many Zionist lies too. Pity this site didn't know that Hamas was no where near power in early days of palestinian struggle and initially received funding from Mossad to to break up the Paletinisn struggle between it and PLO.

It never mentions a thing about the most reactionary Muslim Regime Saudi-Arabia which receives a hell a lot of support from the US.

Yet another thing is this "IslamoFascist" Jihadis are do not have as much support among Muslims as they are portrayed by this website.There are hell a lot of Muslims in the country I live in and I am yet to meet a Islamofascist.
what do fundings and support from the US have to do with anything in this thread?


Ihavenoidea

You do know how hysterical you are?

you have totally fallen for all the bourgeoisie's propaganda.

The vast majority of Muslims in this world are totally upstanding people who are just trying to get on with their lives.

How about attacking western Christians, it would seem much less racist.

islam is a race?

and assuming it is, christianity isn't and therefore attack on it aren't racist?

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 11:49 am

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/


This whole site is ridiculous on many issues. Number one Muslim Brotherhood is not the single controlling body of Islam.
Yeah, like that. The real problems that Islam and other religions have are one thing - the hysterical exagerrations geared up to justify imperialist persecution of Muslims are another.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 07:53 am
islam is a race?

and assuming it is, christianity isn't and therefore attack on it aren't racist?
No Islam is not a race, this counters every Islamic teaching, yet, attacks on Islam comming from Western Christians or Christian Apostates is intransically akin to Racism.

Why?

Because in this part of the world, fear of Islam is blanketted over the masses as a form of scapegoating and channeled prejudice. We are taught, by mainstream society, that the biggest threat to our lives is a bunch of crazy fanatics comming from some far off desert to kill us because they are jealous of our way of life. They do not use these exact words, but watch FOX news or CNN for a minitue and see if thats not what they are implying. Most White Westerners do not have the cultural education to differentiate "Islamic" and "Arabic", so an attack on Islam becomes an attack on being Arab. Do you think a non-Muslim Arab has it any easier at an airport than a practising Arab Muslim? Hell, get a White Muslim and an Arab Atheist at an Airport and see who recieves the random search. Islamophobia is racism, even if Islam is not a race. Islamophobia breeds racist anti-Arab Xenophobic fears, especially if it is handed to a society which is as culturally unaware as White America tends to be. Point in case, after 9/11, the first random person to be killed in a racist "retaliation" was not a Muslim, but a Sikh, the dumbshit racist Islamophobes couldnt tell the difference, and they saw brown+turban=terrorist. This is why Islamophobia is racism. In the west, we do not deal with radical Islam very much, and it deffinately doesnt need to be priority #1 for us as it is for many FOX-heads. We should support people who struggle against radical Islam in places where such a struggle is needed, but not be so chauvanistic to say that the duty falls on us "civilized westerners" to deal with the problems of cultures we largely do not understand.

You want to struggle against religion, try struggling against one that actually holds sway over the country you lived in, and I have never ever heard George Bush say "Allah Bless America".

Just because it is anti-religious does not mean it isnt horribly reactionary. We do not need simple minded leftists spouting out rightist fear-mongering tactics like this site does.

[Ihavenoidea]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 06:03 pm
Ihavenoidea

You do know how hysterical you are?

you have totally fallen for all the bourgeoisie's propaganda.

The vast majority of Muslims in this world are totally upstanding people who are just trying to get on with their lives.

How about attacking western Christians, it would seem much less racist.
Sure I have buckeroo.

I dislike muslims for my own reason, and statistics, quotes, and ACTIONS speak for themselves, ok?


cooool. I dont know if I am reactionary. I dont think I am or support the reactionaries, perhaps I should post a detailed list of my likes and dislike spollitically/socially and let you guys help me out.

<_<

[вор в законе]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 04:57 pm
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/
Damn, does anyone know what&#39;s the name of that song? I think it was in Matrix, not sure though&#33; :blush:


Regardless of what Islam stands for, the sites are a right-wing propaganda that intends to justify a possible Imperialist intervention against Iran and Lebanon.

[Ihavenoidea]

But it is indeed rediculous for everyone to call people whoa re against islam for one reason or another, reactionary or right wing.. It is fucking insane.

Its like no one can hate the muslims without being pushed into a group of people who hate the muslims because of white media propaganda. I dont listen to that shit.... well I do.. and then I look it up and read about it if it is worth doing so. then formulate my opinion.

I find it just baffeling that I am immediatly right wing or submitting to the right if I do not like muslims because the statistics are unimaginable...

And yeah the song is good... hmm I dunno about the matrix.... but if it was used for the matrix is the martic right wing and reactionary :lol:

[вор в законе]

I didn&#39;t said that you are a right-wing, I said those who made the web sites are right-wing, you can clearly see that it in the second link (yes I read the websites) where someone&#39;s stamping wikipedia as a &#39;&#39;communist site&#39;&#39; because it doesn&#39;t consider Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist organizations. :rolleyes:

I am not fond of Islam either or any other religion for that matter. Nobody is.

The question is: would you support an Imperialist intervention against Iran by a let&#39;s say secular country, yes or no?

Your answer will determine whether you are right-wing or not. ;)

[Ihavenoidea]

Well gosh I dunno...

I do not support any kind of imperialist interventions on any countries because you can look at africa or others and see how damaging it is, the states sucks with that, just another attempt at trying to colonize THE ENTIRE WORLD. Which is compleatly wrong.

I think that if Iran blew up the entire world in a cloud of atomicness, it would be deserved, and I do beleive that if you live in a country doing something imperialist-and hurtyness on another country you are responsible no matter if you are left, conservative or whatever&#33; You are responsible for your country.

Anyhoo, I think it is wrong, realigious or not a country, to invade another in the name of WHATEVER.

As much as I do not like muslims, the usa or any other "Secular" country (becaue lord knows there really isnt any, there is always one religion on top of anothers ass), to invade someone else, intervention for whatever.

I think that the only troops we should have.. Are cooking troops&#33; Armed with sptulas and deliciousness to feed the masses. No guns and only if a country needs help and asks for it.

If a country is threatening another country with weapons in the name of the almighty whatever, leave it alone.

I do beleive the people in a country who are not wanting to be part of that religion or government should get assistence getting out and of course that would create some problems.. But they need to think about the people here, and if those peopel want help from US. let us give them help. In a calm, respective way. I know that many people who have tried to escape the clutches of islam have wound up dead. And this shouldnt happen.

but if a country is being all bazzerk, we should be focusing on how to get the people safe, and bargan respectfully. You all know I dont beleive religion should run a country, but it is inevitable right now in the world... unfortunatly.. But No.. no imperialistic intervention with our wealth and accumulation of masses and property in mind. Its wrong, no matter the religion or secularness.

Ther should be times when peaceful, non-government or polotics help is offered such as food and clothing and escape. But nothing along the lines as:

"We are here from ___ and we are here to liberate you..." (scariest words ever&#33;)

i just got home from work so my mind is BLOWN, BLOWN i say&#33;&#33; So just tell me if you need to know anything.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Ihavenoidea you are a racist little fucker aren&#39;t you&#33;

but first i will respond to colonelguppy



islam is a race?

This begs the question, what exactly a "race" is.

40 years of scientific research has shown that the biological make up of humans from different parts of the world cannot be grouped into "races".

So, race is a myth.

But, racism, that is not. Racism is targeting people based on a number of characteristics.

The notion of "race" is actually part of Racism.

Ihavenoidea is targeting Muslims based on a number of characteristics.




I dislike Muslims for my own reason, and statistics, quotes, and ACTIONS speak for themselves, ok?


Like, this is a racist statement, since Muslims are on the whole black or brown or south east Asian and very small proportions of white Muslims.

yet, Ihavenoidea (and she clearly doesn&#39;t have any idea) feels she has enough evidence to hate Muslim&#39;s. (note the plural, meaning she hates Muslim people, not specifically the religion.)


cooool. I dont know if I am reactionary.

Yes, what you have said in this thread is very reactionary.


As much as I do not like Muslims,

why because they are black and brown?


THIS IS NOT A RACE BLIND CRITIQUE OF ISLAM, THIS IS PART OF AN ATTACK ON PEOPLE WHO "LOOK" MUSLIM

its a new way of expressing racism.

[ComradeRed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 09:54 am
Ihavenoidea is targeting Muslims based on a number of characteristics.
There is no proof of this other than your assertion; IHAVENOIDEA has yet to be "hateful" of one particular group of muslims based on physical characteristics.

IHNI has expressed a contraversial opinion; perhaps s/he&#39;ll be able to justify her/his stance perhaps not.

That does not, however, equate to racism.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 04:57 pm
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/
Now I dislike Islam, a lot - it&#39;s a stupid theistic system and therfore should not exist but "terrorismawareness.com" is not likley to be the best source of information on Islam as a religion and a hyperbolic title such as "islamic mein kampf" is not filling me with any confidence either.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Its racism that&#39;s hidden behind "Islam is not a race"

but nothing is a race since they don&#39;t exist&#33;&#33; doesn&#39;t mean there is not such thing as racism.

[Ihavenoidea]

why cant one be left wing and dislike muslims? lol, you guys and I mean everyone I express my opinion on this subject to tell me I am right wing.

Meanwhile people shit on every other religion and they have "a right to their own opinion"

So I suppose it isnt me who is falling into any kind of propaganda brainwash, its you. lol.

I am left wing, I dislike muslims among many religions. I am not a paradox. It is not impossible for me to exist. There are many communist comrades I know who are against islam just because of the vary same reasons (statistics, the recent activness of many muslim-based hate crimes and terrorism). They are shoving their religion on the rest of the world and then claiming racism when you citisze them for doing so. Women have to be a cirtain way we have to worship their god and respect their culture, even when it is vastly interupting with moral and PEACE.

Fuck I am against all religion, but islam was a huge mistake to whoever was smoking up when they made it.

They need everyone to respect their religion.

They need everyone to never insult them.

They want non-muslims to help them get rid of the infidels.


Fuck that shit. I am sorry but I will always dislike islam. there are statistics and there are reports made why i dont. You guys can blindly follow it based on 3 peices of info you heard, but me, I went a bit further and I stated all my sources at least 4 or 5 times on this forum. Statistics, news, video and feed of the situation there and their attitude is absolutly disgusting.

They kill people who convert from islam.

They kill people who are not muslim and want to live their own way outside of islam (they are killing prostitutes and models in europe and the uk).

Everyone becareful not to hurt the muslims feelings... or they will blow you up in the name of their god and we wont be able to do a damn thing about it because of "Racism" charges.

I dont beleive in allah. I hate muslims. I am indeed left wing. BEING ANTI-MUSLIM AND LEFT WING IS NOT A PARADOX, IF YOU WERE TRULEY LEFT WING YOU WOULD BE AGAINST ALL FORM OF JUSTIFICATION FOR VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF RELIGION, RELIGIOUS HATE CRIMES AND RELIGION PERIOD&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Have a good one comrades.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 01:56 am
why cant one be left wing and dislike muslims? lol, you guys and I mean everyone I express my opinion on this subject to tell me I am right wing.

Meanwhile people shit on every other religion and they have "a right to their own opinion"

So I suppose it isnt me who is falling into any kind of propaganda brainwash, its you. lol.

I am left wing, I dislike muslims among many religions. I am not a paradox. It is not impossible for me to exist. There are many communist comrades I know who are against islam just because of the vary same reasons (statistics, the recent activness of many muslim-based hate crimes and terrorism). They are shoving their religion on the rest of the world and then claiming racism when you citisze them for doing so. Women have to be a cirtain way we have to worship their god and respect their culture, even when it is vastly interupting with moral and PEACE.

Fuck I am against all religion, but islam was a huge mistake to whoever was smoking up when they made it.

They need everyone to respect their religion.

They need everyone to never insult them.

They want non-muslims to help them get rid of the infidels.


Fuck that shit. I am sorry but I will always dislike islam. there are statistics and there are reports made why i dont. You guys can blindly follow it based on 3 peices of info you heard, but me, I went a bit further and I stated all my sources at least 4 or 5 times on this forum. Statistics, news, video and feed of the situation there and their attitude is absolutly disgusting.

They kill people who convert from islam.

They kill people who are not muslim and want to live their own way outside of islam (they are killing prostitutes and models in europe and the uk).

Everyone becareful not to hurt the muslims feelings... or they will blow you up in the name of their god and we wont be able to do a damn thing about it because of "Racism" charges.

I dont beleive in allah. I hate muslims. I am indeed left wing. BEING ANTI-MUSLIM AND LEFT WING IS NOT A PARADOX, IF YOU WERE TRULEY LEFT WING YOU WOULD BE AGAINST ALL FORM OF JUSTIFICATION FOR VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF RELIGION, RELIGIOUS HATE CRIMES AND RELIGION PERIOD&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Have a good one comrades.
im quoting this post so it cant be deleted.

You totally worded it like a classic racist would.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Ihavenoidea+March 19, 2007 04:26 am--> (Ihavenoidea @ March 19, 2007 04:26 am)
[email protected] 17, 2007 06:03 pm
Ihavenoidea

You do know how hysterical you are?

you have totally fallen for all the bourgeoisie&#39;s propaganda.

The vast majority of Muslims in this world are totally upstanding people who are just trying to get on with their lives.

How about attacking western Christians, it would seem much less racist.
Sure I have buckeroo.

I dislike muslims for my own reason, and statistics, quotes, and ACTIONS speak for themselves, ok?


cooool. I dont know if I am reactionary. I dont think I am or support the reactionaries, perhaps I should post a detailed list of my likes and dislike spollitically/socially and let you guys help me out.

<_< [/b]
There&#39;s a big difference between disliking Islam, and disliking Muslims. If you do the latter, you&#39;re either stupid (because you&#39;re essentialiing a whole group of people) or racist (because a LOT of racism these days is couched as being a reaction against Islam).

Or you may have expressed yourself badly, in which case SAY it and be done with it. Also, I&#39;d reconsider where you&#39;re getting your sources about Islam from, like Jazzratt said.

[RNK]

I dislike muslims for my own reason, and statistics, quotes, and ACTIONS speak for themselves, ok?

You&#39;re right. Well, not about quotes. But statistics and actions are wonderful things. Like how 100,000,000 innocents have been killed in the last hundred years by "Christian" states. That&#39;s an average of 1,000,000 a year. Imagine if Muslims were responsible for killing 1,000,000 in a single year? Why, if that happened, I&#39;m fairly sure that every square inch of dirt from Morocco to Indonesia would at this very moment be nothing but molten, irradiated ash.

Yes, I do indeed love statistics and actions. And right now, I&#39;d love nothing more than to see someone act and restrict your miserable, nazi-loving, racist ass, you ignorant ****.

[Vargha Poralli]

I dislike muslims for my own reason,

This statement alone provides a good reason to restrict this member.

She clearly states she dislikes Muslims because she read some bull shit imperialistr propaganda that Muslims are fascists.

Islam as a religion has serious drawbacks to modern lifestyle just like Christianity or Hinduism or Buddhism or any other religion.

But Ihavenoidea clearly states that she hates Muslims because of those imperialistic statistics.She has no reason to hate them all but she still loves to hate them.

[RNK]

I like the quote in my sig better:

"I hate muslims."

And just to touch on that point she brought up about "if I said this stuff about Christianity nobody would care". The main point of our (or atleast my) disgust at what you&#39;re saying isn&#39;t your proclamation of hating a religion. It is based on the fact that you have so horribly skewed and blurred the lines between hating the principles of religion and discriminating against the followers of that religion for an absolutely invalid reason. All religions are bad, yes; but you&#39;re no longer talking solely about a religion when you say shit like "I hate muslims" or "I dislike muslims". If someone started prancing around these boards saying "I hate christians" I would find them pretty ignorant too. There is a difference, however. Christianity is not as attached to any racial prejudices as Islam is. When you say "I hate christians", the target of that hatred is very clear. But when you say "I hate muslims", the target becomes almost irrelevant, and you are doing nothing but repeating the same discriminatory remarks made by hard-line right-wing Christian (and Jewish) fundies. The same would go if someone started running around saying "I hate jews&#33;" They would be emulating the "call" (if you want to call it that) of fascists and Nazis without taking caution to realize the historical backdrop in which they&#39;re saying that.

Anyway the point is, millions of people have been slaughtered in the name of being a jew or a muslim. It is a sensitive topic and showing such inconsideracy to the historical crimes commited against them by mimicking their slaughterer&#39;s calls is ignorant.

[Severian]

Originally posted by ComradeRed+March 19, 2007 06:18 pm--> (ComradeRed @ March 19, 2007 06:18 pm)
[email protected] 19, 2007 09:54 am
Ihavenoidea is targeting Muslims based on a number of characteristics.
There is no proof of this other than your assertion; IHAVENOIDEA has yet to be "hateful" of one particular group of muslims based on physical characteristics. [/b]
Really. So it&#39;s only when people are targeted for their physical characteristics that you have a problem?

E.g. Jews, who don&#39;t have distinctive physical characteristics. Someone pops up and says they "dislike" Jews for their non-physical characteristics - e.g. their alleged stinginess, greediness, and world-controlling conspiracies - you have no problem with this?

Or gays - also not a physical characteristic. Etc.

Some people on this board have completely lost their political bearings because they exagerrated priority they put on crusading against religion....

They forget that it&#39;s necessary to oppose every kind of prejudice and bigotry that divides the working class. It doesn&#39;t matter what basis a group is targeted for scapegoating - skin color, sex, religion, whatever. That&#39;s arbitrary. The scapegoating and division are what matter, and have to be opposed....

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 06:56 pm
They want non-muslims to help them get rid of the infidels.
"They" want infidels to help them get rid of the infidels?


They kill people who convert from islam.

They kill people who are not muslim and want to live their own way outside of islam (they are killing prostitutes and models in europe and the uk).

Who&#39;s "they"? If most Muslims were involved in that, there&#39;d be a lot more killing. No.

Ultraright groups acting in the name of Islam kill people who, etc.

Of course, so do other ultraright groups. Some of these other ultraright groups act in the name of....hating Muslims. In fact, that seems to be the main propaganda basis of most fascist groups in Europe right now.

The actions of one set of fascist-like groups are not a reason to join another set in hating Muslims.

[Question everything]

You accually believe this crap&#33;?&#33; I could but together a slide show with Israelis or Americans using the same basic terms in 10 maybe 15 minutes.


"They" want infidels to help them get rid of the infidels?

What&#39;s so confusing? Palestians, Iraqis, and every other Muslim (at least those who are being racially profiled an threatened with US bombings) needs help, they aren&#39;t trying to take over the world, they just want their land back, if I&#39;m not mistaken Infidel in Islam basically means invader, so I think that "they" simply want to be left alone.

[ComradeRed]

Originally posted by Severian+March 20, 2007 10:21 am--> (Severian @ March 20, 2007 10:21 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 06:18 pm

[email protected] 19, 2007 09:54 am
Ihavenoidea is targeting Muslims based on a number of characteristics.
There is no proof of this other than your assertion; IHAVENOIDEA has yet to be "hateful" of one particular group of muslims based on physical characteristics.
Really. So it&#39;s only when people are targeted for their physical characteristics that you have a problem? [/b]
Pardon me, I misread what BCS wrote. I thought he wrote:

Ihavenoidea is targeting Muslims based on a number of physical characteristics.

[EwokUtopia]

Firstly, being against religion does not mean hating everyone who believes in it. I have many friends and family members who are Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, whatever, and I respect their right to believe in it, even if I do not believe in it myself. Do you not have any friends or family members who you love that are religious?

What Ihavenoidea has done is essentially proven her own nickname here. She has put forth orientalist ideas of what Islam is and who Muslims are. She has judged a billion people as if they were one, and I get a sneaking suspicion that she has yet to meet one of those billion people. She is simply a victim of Islamophobic propaganda. I am not religious myself, and I oppose religious institutions, but it is a simple fact that most people in this world are religious in one way or another, and I would like to not hate most of the members of my species, but try to understand what they believe, and, yes, you will find common values shared between these people and yourself, if you look. Shutting yourself in and hating everyone who isnt a leftist is quite anti-social given the percentage of religious people in the world, and socialism wont come from anti-social behavior.

But what Ihavenoidea has done is far worse than this. She has handpicked a specific religion to hate above all others, and it just so happens that this is the religion that people are told to shake their fists at by the hegemonic American Neoconservative movement. If he came on here hating Catholics, it would be particularly productive, but it wouldnt be racist because I dont see Catholics being checked all the time at the Airports, or thrown into concentration camps (of course theyre not called that, but its essentially the same) for stuff they say over the internet.

You want to understand Muslims, Ihavenoidea, then get a bloody idea, why not actually meet one or two, and if you can hold a conversation with them for 5 minitues without calling them towelheads, or mentioning some non-existant promise of 72 virgins (find that quote in the Qur&#39;an, and Ill find you a pink donkey) or calling them terrorists, you might actually learn something. certainly much more than you do off of neocon propaganda.

Muslims are people like any others. There are good muslims, there are bad muslims. there are good christians, there are bad christians. there are good atheists, there are bad atheists. there are good leftists, there are bad leftists. hell, there are even a few members of the ruling class who are good people and have contributed to left wing thought (Kropotkin, among many others), so never blanket people.

[вор в законе]

Guys, she is still 16 and her blood is boiling, she just expresses her intolerance towards Islam in a more extreme way and given that most Islamic countries treat women as second class citizens, I don&#39;t blame her. Don&#39;t do anything stupid and restrict her.

She just has to learn that there is a way of telling things.

Ihavenoidea: Nobody here disagrees with you when it comes to Islam. Its just that you need to understand that Muslims and Christians aren&#39;t to blame for the fact that they believe in nonsense, quite the contrary these people are victims of an organized propaganda.

Interestingly enough, the majority of the religious folks are actually proles. Are we going to butcher 90%+ of earth&#39;s population because of that? No, we have to convince them because there is no need in using force when you can sit and talk things.

This is what occurs when an ideological vacuum occurs, people resort to religion. Until the late &#39;70s, things were very different in the Arab world, with the exception of Saudi Arabia and their Peninsula. Arab nationalism was in fact progressive and secular, Iran was a secular republic during the Shah.

Islamic fundamentalism was significantly supported by the...&#39;&#39;guess who&#39;&#39;, back then since Arab nationalism supported many aspects of Socialism, something which made them see the Soviets in a favourable light. To counter this, the United States created the infamous &#39;&#39;Green Belt&#39;&#39;, they funded the Islamic fundamentalists -especially in Afghanistan, Khomeini was contrary to what most think supported initially since the King of Persia was becoming a little to &#39;&#39;independent - are against Socialism and secularism by nature.

The problem is that, now that the Cold War is over, this entire thing went out of control and has turned against its former master. Of course this ideological polarization serves both sides since the choice has turned into a &#39;&#39;Civilized West or Islam&#39;&#39; thing.

Of course have no reservations that I prefer to live in what we call &#39;&#39;the West&#39;&#39; rather than there, but what I am saying is that we shouldn&#39;t fall to the trap that they have set up to us. Its not West VS Islam thing.

This (http://www.newsandletters.org/Issues/2001/Nov/iran_nov2001.htm) might be helpful.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

@ I have no idea

You started with ultra-leftism and now you&#39;re taking a reactionary position. My first instinct was to totally slam you for expressing such infantile views. The only reason why I&#39;m not doing that is because you seem to be new to the revolutionary left. I also assume that you consider yourself a communist and agree with Marx on materialism and the class struggle.

Do you or do you not subscribe to the Marxian view of society?


why cant one be left wing and dislike muslims? lol, you guys and I mean everyone I express my opinion on this subject to tell me I am right wing.

Because to dislike a particular religious group is ridiculous. There are lots of Muslims, and most of them are exploited, oppressed, workers or peasants. If you hate them, how exactly do you call yourself a communist?


Meanwhile people shit on every other religion and they have "a right to their own opinion"

People "shit" on Islam too, when you talk about reactionary religious beliefs within Islam.

However, its idiotic and counter-revolutionary to shit on MUSLIMS.



So I suppose it isnt me who is falling into any kind of propaganda brainwash, its you. lol.

Actually, your sympathy for imperialist racism is not funny at all. Honestly.



I am left wing, I dislike muslims among many religions. I am not a paradox.

Err...whatever you are, I&#39;m quite sure that you&#39;re definitely very confused and very mistaken.



It is not impossible for me to exist.

No, we all believe you. You DO exist.

But your views are not anti-religion. They&#39;re anti-Worker and anti-Peasant. Consequently, they&#39;re reactionary.



There are many communist comrades I know who are against islam just because of the vary same reasons (statistics, the recent activness of many muslim-based hate crimes and terrorism). They are shoving their religion on the rest of the world and then claiming racism when you citisze them for doing so. Women have to be a cirtain way we have to worship their god and respect their culture, even when it is vastly interupting with moral and PEACE.

Fuck I am against all religion, but islam was a huge mistake to whoever was smoking up when they made it.


Perhaps you need to make sure precisely what you have a problem with. Is it Islam or Muslims that you hate?



They need everyone to respect their religion.

They need everyone to never insult them.

They want non-muslims to help them get rid of the infidels.


This is ridiculous, and it sounds just like hogswash that you&#39;ve picked up from a pro-imperialist site like "islam-watch" or "terrorism-awareness".

By their standards, I&#39;m an "ex-Muslim" too. But unlike those pro-imperialist bastards, I don&#39;t have a big splinter stuck up my ass about Islam.

Why? Because I sympathize with the millions of Muslim workers and peasants who are some of the worst sufferers under imperialism and capitalism.

YOU, on the other hand, hate these people, which makes you reactionary, anti-communist and pro-imperialist.

I&#39;m sorry, but you must reconsider your views...or else you cannot realistically call yourself a communist.



Fuck that shit. I am sorry but I will always dislike islam. there are statistics and there are reports made why i dont. You guys can blindly follow it based on 3 peices of info you heard, but me, I went a bit further and I stated all my sources at least 4 or 5 times on this forum. Statistics, news, video and feed of the situation there and their attitude is absolutly disgusting.


I&#39;ve debated you several times on this issue now.

The ONLY sources that you&#39;ve ever mentioned are blatantly pro-imperialist sources.

Give us a fucking break, please.

[Publius]

How about attacking western Christians, it would seem much less racist.

Without visiting either of those sites (I know the sort), I have to ask how opposition to Islam is racist.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 07:54 pm
Without visiting either of those sites (I know the sort), I have to ask how opposition to Islam is racist.
Then you have to scroll up, this question has been answered ad naseum.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

IHAVENOIDEA




They need everyone to respect their religion.

They need everyone to never insult them.


Look at this piece of Christian intolerance.

Sweet Jesus (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6513155.stm)

So, its not just Muslims its Christians too&#33;

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 04:41 pm
IHAVENOIDEA




They need everyone to respect their religion.

They need everyone to never insult them.


Look at this piece of Christian intolerance.

Sweet Jesus (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6513155.stm)

So, its not just Muslims its Christians too&#33;
Well, no shit.

Islam and Christianity have very similar teachings and are both wrong.

[Comrade J]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+March 31, 2007 04:46 pm--> (Jazzratt @ March 31, 2007 04:46 pm)
[email protected] 31, 2007 04:41 pm
IHAVENOIDEA




They need everyone to respect their religion.

They need everyone to never insult them.


Look at this piece of Christian intolerance.

Sweet Jesus (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6513155.stm)

So, its not just Muslims its Christians too&#33;
Well, no shit.

Islam and Christianity have very similar teachings and are both wrong. [/b]
Aaaah but only Islam is a race... :unsure:

I agree, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism etc are all equally ridiculous and inherently oppressive, though on Revleft if you criticise just one of these in a certain thread, for some reason unknown to me, people assume that&#39;s the only religion you&#39;re against.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

OH NOES&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

leftists not liking being called up on racist remarks&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

MUMMY MUMMY&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Comrade J]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 04:56 pm
OH NOES&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

leftists not liking being called up on racist remarks&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

MUMMY MUMMY&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
What the fuck is wrong with you?

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 31, 2007 04:50 pm
I agree, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism etc are all equally ridiculous and inherently oppressive, though on Revleft if you criticise just one of these in a certain thread, for some reason unknown to me, people assume that&#39;s the only religion you&#39;re against.
It doesnt matter how ridiculous they are, you should not be prejudiced against people who choose to adhere to it unless their actions warrant such intolerance. I have never met a Muslim who wanted to kill anyone who made fun of the Prophet, or beat any woman not wearing hijab, these are just harmful stereotypes about 1/6 of the humans on this planet. It keeps us divided from one another, and therefore it is bad. We must not associate the worst of a belief with all of its believers.

Associating all Muslims with terrorists is like associating all of us with Kim Jong Il...only ignorant conservative fucks do it.

My point, basically, being against religion is one thing, being against religious people is another. Most people in the world are religious, so unless we want to isolate ourselves from most of humanity, we need to branch out to them. Where did Marx say you should hate all those who are hooked on the opiate?

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by EwokUtopia+March 18, 2007 09:02 pm--> (EwokUtopia @ March 18, 2007 09:02 pm)
[email protected] 18, 2007 07:53 am
islam is a race?

and assuming it is, christianity isn&#39;t and therefore attack on it aren&#39;t racist?
No Islam is not a race, this counters every Islamic teaching, yet, attacks on Islam comming from Western Christians or Christian Apostates is intransically akin to Racism.

Why?

Because in this part of the world, fear of Islam is blanketted over the masses as a form of scapegoating and channeled prejudice. We are taught, by mainstream society, that the biggest threat to our lives is a bunch of crazy fanatics comming from some far off desert to kill us because they are jealous of our way of life. They do not use these exact words, but watch FOX news or CNN for a minitue and see if thats not what they are implying. Most White Westerners do not have the cultural education to differentiate "Islamic" and "Arabic", so an attack on Islam becomes an attack on being Arab. Do you think a non-Muslim Arab has it any easier at an airport than a practising Arab Muslim? Hell, get a White Muslim and an Arab Atheist at an Airport and see who recieves the random search. Islamophobia is racism, even if Islam is not a race. Islamophobia breeds racist anti-Arab Xenophobic fears, especially if it is handed to a society which is as culturally unaware as White America tends to be. Point in case, after 9/11, the first random person to be killed in a racist "retaliation" was not a Muslim, but a Sikh, the dumbshit racist Islamophobes couldnt tell the difference, and they saw brown+turban=terrorist. This is why Islamophobia is racism. In the west, we do not deal with radical Islam very much, and it deffinately doesnt need to be priority #1 for us as it is for many FOX-heads. We should support people who struggle against radical Islam in places where such a struggle is needed, but not be so chauvanistic to say that the duty falls on us "civilized westerners" to deal with the problems of cultures we largely do not understand.

You want to struggle against religion, try struggling against one that actually holds sway over the country you lived in, and I have never ever heard George Bush say "Allah Bless America".

Just because it is anti-religious does not mean it isnt horribly reactionary. We do not need simple minded leftists spouting out rightist fear-mongering tactics like this site does. [/b]
so because some people aren&#39;t smart enough to distinguish between "muslim" and "arab", criticism of islam is intrinsically racist? that is a complete non-sequitor.

i&#39;m not concerned about christianities sway over my country. it is minimal and constantly waning. islamism is dangerous for the whole world, and is contrary to progress within the region which happens to be vital to the world economy.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 12:54 pm

islam is a race?

This begs the question, what exactly a "race" is.

40 years of scientific research has shown that the biological make up of humans from different parts of the world cannot be grouped into "races".

So, race is a myth.

But, racism, that is not. Racism is targeting people based on a number of characteristics.

The notion of "race" is actually part of Racism.

Ihavenoidea is targeting Muslims based on a number of characteristics.
i realize that race doesn&#39;t exist biologically, but is rather a social construct. however, criticizing those for practicing islam has nothing to do with the traditional notions of racism. muslims can be arab, persian, south east asian, african, even white in the balkans... from what i&#39;ve read up untill these comments, ihavenoidea hasn&#39;t targeted muslims on any of these charcteristics.

[Jazzratt]

colonelguppy while I appreciate that you&#39;re trying to knock some sense into these guys we&#39;ve already had a 4 page thread trying to persuade them that their wrong - I&#39;m afraid it just won&#39;t happen - you should put your efforts into something more fruitful like attaching wheels to tomatoes.

[gilhyle]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 05:54 pm
[

40 years of scientific research has shown that the biological make up of humans from different parts of the world cannot be grouped into "races".

So, race is a myth.


I think this may not be correct.

It is one thing to abhor racism (and I reject it in all its forms - it is a pernicious evil).

But there is a kind of liberalism that can only argue against racism (or sexism for that matter) by denying the existence of the differences that are referred to by the racist. I suspect Marxists should not settle for this kind of thinking.

It seems to me that the point about being anti-racist is to deny that the differences being referred to are or should be of any political importance (whether nor not they exist) - not to rely on denying that they exist.

I accept that these concepts of gender and race difference are fuzzy concepts around the edges; I accept that the concepts conflate nature/nurture. I am strongly of the view that in relation to both sets of difference, we exaggerate the extent of the differences - that makes sense to me: when entities live in close proximity as humans do, differences are easily exaggerated and such differences are a rich mine of nonsense for ideologies to use within class struggle.

(I admit I frequently take pleasure, in a playful way, in using the scientific evidence to try to prove that Africans are actually the most advanced homo sapiens and that I dont really believe it......though I do sorta &#33;&#33;)

But all this to me is beside the point. Liberalism often tries to define racism and &#39;identity prejudice&#39; generally as a psychological state based on false factual claims about identity characteristics. They seem to think it can be identified by looking for some deep psychological aversion to the identity in question and aiming to overcome it by proving the factual claim relied on to be false and by exorcising the aversion in some irrationalist manner of healing.

That de-politicised view of racism and prejudice generally seems suspect to me. For me these are political issues, to be tackled not be curing peoples minds or by making them enlightened, but need to be seen as political and located in the State, to be fought by the strict requirement for and enforcement of legal rights and by the elimination of structures of poverty and disempowerment that have been built up on the basis of policies depending on prejudice.

Now extend that to anti-moslem expressions. This is not strictly speaking racism, but it is a form of identity prejudice. Thus someone expresses deep aversion to Islam. Cant really disagree. But where I can disagree is if someone wants to discriminate against moslems. Is there a legitimate political basis for such discrimination ? No.

This is unlike, lets say, in a immediately post-revolution society if a decision was taken to exclude former capitalists from voting or speaking. Someone might say that was a form of &#39;identity prejudice&#39;. I would say tha that that may be so but it might be justified politically, even if it is identity prejudice.

Of course this is slightly scary. it seems to leave open a possibility that racism might be politically justified. It might feel more comfortable to prove there is no such thing as a Jew or an Aryan - if they just dont exist there cannot be any basis for a policy. True, this is attractively definitive (although I cant see Hitler as the kind of guy to be deflected by 40 years of scientific research). But it might just be factually WRONG. (for the purposes of this argument I dont care at the moment whether it is or isnt). It seems to me much more soundly based to say that whether there are Aryans and Jews or not, the proposal to build a racially pure society is crap because

a) there wont be any benefit from it
b) there will be a major loss to society by building it on the grounds of the violence required and
c) this racist policy is only be promoted to divert attention from the real issues of struggle.

[I&#39;ve left out more points that could be made.]

Racism is not about science or about emotions, its about political reason. It is theoretically POSSIBLE that it could be justifiable politically, it just happens to be the case that there is absolutely no political justification for it from a progressive point of view.....and there never will be.

One important conclusion of this view is to recognise that, for theorists and politicians of the dominant class, racism could actually make sense even if it doesnt now and that it is an attractive feature of socialism and marxism that from their point of view it never makes sense. In this way we differentiate between the resolutely anti-racist socialist and the always-potentially-racist ideologues of capitalism, disporting themselves at the moment as high minded liberals but always capable of transforming into racists. Remember the old (probably false) idea that every man could be a rapist - well this view lets us formulate an analogous idea that every capitalist could be a racist; science wont save them from the dark consequences history has in store for them because of their class allegiances.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 11:45 am
colonelguppy while I appreciate that you&#39;re trying to knock some sense into these guys we&#39;ve already had a 4 page thread trying to persuade them that their wrong - I&#39;m afraid it just won&#39;t happen - you should put your efforts into something more fruitful like attaching wheels to tomatoes.
http://209.200.118.113/starkphoto/sendbina...X.jpg&Width=250 (http://209.200.118.113/starkphoto/sendbinary.asp?path=C:%5CCommerceHelper%5CStarkPho to%5CImageFiles%5Ctomato-X.jpg&Width=250)