Irish water tax

[PRC-UTE]

Daly / Mc Namee Cumann
Press Release
5th March 2007


*FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE*

Belfast IRSP representative, Gerard Foster today called for the public to be courageous in the face of the impending Water Tax due to come into play in April.

Speaking at the launch of the IRSP "Water - Don't Pay Twice!" campaign in Belfast this evening, Mr. Foster expressed his unconditional support for the massive non-payment campaign.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6402/dalymcnameebillboard600ll3.jpg

"The IRSP call on the wider public to stand strong and to show the courage they have repeatedly shown over the years in the face of British adversity.

The Water Tax is just another form of British oppression.

He went on to add, "The working class people of West Belfast are already paying for their water. It is a widely known fact that 37% of your rates bill goes towards Water and Sewerage. Why people should then have to pay a further levy for this service is pure extortion.

"Water is being sold off for profit by the British government. Along with this is your human right to have access to a pure and clean water supply. The government and those who would support the Water Tax are abandoning your human rights and are trying their best to scare and intimidate people into paying this tax, by claiming that they will no longer be able to obtain credit if they refuse or default with their payment. This is an absolutely ludicrous claim to be making.

"All of the mainstream parties (SF, SDLP, DUP and UUP) have signed up to this stealth tax during their periods in the Executive regardless of their feable claims of opposition to the Water Tax. Every single one of them. It is time that the people wakened up to the constant lies and rants of these self seeking party leaders.

Mr. Foster speaks out at a time when the north of the country are about to be plunged into the middle of the Election campaign for the Devolved Legislative Authority of the British Empire and the Stormont seats which are up for grabs. Parties such as SF and the SDLP have consistently expressed their opposition to the Water charges, but both parties will not support the non-payment campaign. SF are intending to petition the British Chancellor of the Exchequer for relaxed methods of payment, and a change to the so called "phasing scheme" of the British government.

"We must stand together and resist this Tax of the Working Class. It is the working class who will suffer, and who will have to pay time and time again. Small business and multi-national corporate orgainisations alike will also have to pay increased water charges as a result, but we all know that this will be passed onto the consumer and not soaked up by the profit margins of these companies.

"The only way to beat this tax is to stand together, let our opposition be heard and refuse to pay the Water charges come April! We need a campaign of mass support. They cannot jail us all."

To contact the IRSP in your area in relation to the Water Tax call, +44 (0) 28 9032 1024. Otherwise, email IRSP - Don't Pay Twice! and label subject as "Water Tax", stating your name, contact details and nature of your query.


Statement Ends.

[quirk]

The people of the north have to join forces and stand up to this. Irish natural recources are being given to foreign and multinational companies to be sold back to the Irish people, with the complete agreement of all the constitutional political parties.

I think we need to oppose this by forming broad based "dont pay" groups, which reach across the political spectrum. I know one has been formed in Newry which is recieving massive support, and there are plans to organise in south armagh and south down, as soon as the elections are over.

I think republicans must also point out that this is indeed part of a much wider campaign, and is about more than water. It is about the theft of our natural recources and the denial of our national sovereignty.

[Cheung Mo]

Radical republicans should turn their words and their bullets at Sinn Fein as punishment for betraying the Irish people and selling out to Anglo-Saxon capitalism.

[Redmau5]

Good to see. I definitly think we'll beat these charges, if the sentiment on the streets is anything to go by.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 06, 2007 02:52 pm
Radical republicans should turn their words and their bullets at Sinn Fein as punishment for betraying the Irish people and selling out to Anglo-Saxon capitalism.
Not to come across as an attack on you at all, comrade, because this certainly isn't, but there are plenty of Anglo-Saxon Republican heroes and martyrs like Wolfe Tone, Willie Orr, McCracken, etc. Republicanism is not narrow nationalism that is hostile to Anglo Saxons but about uniting the different traditions and breaking the connection with England and 'cherishing all the children of the nation equally, oblivious to the differences carefully fostered by an alien government which have divided a minority from a majority in the past.'

[LTPS]

Suppose it's a good thing more parties are jumping on the anti-water charges campaign.

One question though, why did it take the Irps so bloody long while the Socialist Party has been pushing the We Wont Pay campaign for several years now?

The SP/WWPC deserve most of the credit for making sure that this issue is top of the agenda in this election instead of the usual old shite.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Tiocfaidh Ár Lá@March 06, 2007 09:05 pm
Suppose it's a good thing more parties are jumping on the anti-water charges campaign.

One question though, why did it take the Irps so bloody long while the Socialist Party has been pushing the We Wont Pay campaign for several years now?

The SP/WWPC deserve most of the credit for making sure that this issue is top of the agenda in this election instead of the usual old shite.
It didn't take us long. The IRSP were involved in the water charges campaign for years, before the SWP, I believe. We hadn't been as active on it for a bit, so we've re-engaged the issue, but this isn't the first time at all.

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by PRC-[email protected] 06, 2007 08:42 pm
Not to come across as an attack on you at all, comrade, because this certainly isn't, but there are plenty of Anglo-Saxon Republican heroes and martyrs like Wolfe Tone, Willie Orr, McCracken, etc.
More of them would have been of Scottish descent than of Anglo-Saxon descent if that's the way you want to look at it, but they all considered themselves Irish.

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by Tiocfaidh Ár Lá@March 06, 2007 10:05 pm
Suppose it's a good thing more parties are jumping on the anti-water charges campaign.

One question though, why did it take the Irps so bloody long while the Socialist Party has been pushing the We Wont Pay campaign for several years now?

The SP/WWPC deserve most of the credit for making sure that this issue is top of the agenda in this election instead of the usual old shite.
Actually, the Irps were out on the water charges issue before the SP, and way before the We Won't Pay Campaign was set up. The problem was that there were several umbrella organisations and some folded and some coalesced and it all got very confusing for a while.

Undoubtedly the Socialist Party has been very active with its We Won't Pay group, which also includes a handful of anarchists, but unfortunately its influence has been limited to say the least. And the same could be said for the Communities Against Water Tax, which is a broader organisation politically.

The problem the We Won't Pay campaign has, and the same was true for a number of other groups, is that they tend to parachute into an area, organise a meeting, then head on to the next area for the next meeting and so forth. They have no strong footing in working class areas. CAWT to its credit has done more work, IMHO, to get local people in the communities to organise themselves against the water charges. Another problem is that We Won't Pay, in several meetings I've attened, have demanded that everyone join their organisation on their terms, which really isn't feasible.

The best bet, again IMHO, is for the trade union organisation to work in conjunction with local community activists to get workers together to fight the water charges. What the TUs will do as this drags on is anybody's guess, but working class communities will undoubtedly bear the brunt of this unjust tax and will be at the centre of the fight against it.

[The Grey Blur]

The main objective of the WWPC is to beat water charges, if more groups join this broader struggle then that is only a good thing.

Despite this there are some criticisms to be made - I think this is politically opportunistic. If the IRSP were serious about fighting water charges they would have been helping to build a mass non-payment campaign for a whole year as the SP has been. Not just throwing out calls for a non-payment campaign when the charges are less that a month away from introduction.

This is what also annoys me about Sean Mitchell as well, who is claiming to have helped build opposition to water charges when I never saw once on the street doing anti-water charges work.


The problem the We Won't Pay campaign has, and the same was true for a number of other groups, is that they tend to parachute into an area, organise a meeting, then head on to the next area for the next meeting and so forth. They have no strong footing in working class areas
I don't agree with that at all, we have done our best to spread the campaign and wherever members exist we have leafletted and organised meeting. This would incorporate most of West Belfast, and Belfast as a whole.


CAWT to its credit has done more work
It hasn't. The WWPC has offered concrete support and advice to working-class people whereas the CAWT has really been little more than an SWP front without any real analysis or advice.


Another problem is that We Won't Pay, in several meetings I've attened, have demanded that everyone join their organisation on their terms, which really isn't feasible.
How is building a mass non-payment camapign "unfeasible"?

I really don't understand your criticisms...the WWPC is the biggest, most active and most radically-minded as opposed to the myriad other campaigns (which have almost all died off now). Other nationalists like yourselves have worked with us without problems.

I'm not sure if that is what you're suggesting but Community groups alone can't be relied on to fight the charges as they recieve a lot of their funding from the government itself.

In the end I welcome the IRSP in fighting water charge - we should beat the water charges as the working-class already have a determind non-payment attitude. The WWPC has played a but significant role in developing this attitude through our concrete actions (stalls, leafletting, meetings) over the year past.

[Redmau5]

Actually, the Irps were out on the water charges issue before the SP, and way before the We Won't Pay Campaign was set up

Can I have info on when the Irps set up their campaign on water charges? Because this is the first I've heard of it.


They have no strong footing in working class areas.

And the IRSP do? Please don't take this as any kind of personal attack, it's just I have never, ever came across anyone from the IRSP in my area, and I'm from the lower Falls.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 12:46 am
Can I have info on when the Irps set up their campaign on water charges? Because this is the first I've heard of it.
I was glancing through the IRSPs website and seen a few articles on Water Charges over the past few years though none seem to mention any particular campaign group. I could be wrong now, that was just my take from glancing over them.



Irish natural recources are being given to foreign and multinational companies to be sold back to the Irish people, with the complete agreement of all the constitutional political parties.

It is about the theft of our natural recources and the denial of our national sovereignty.

So what if they're foreign and multinational companies? Does the theft and exploitation of natural resources by Irish/British capitalism make it better? This is a question of theft by capitalism, not of specific capitalist classes.

[BOZG]

By the way, I'm not saying they're not involved in any groups, just didn't notice any specific references. Also, PRC & Conghaileach, have you read the WWPC's pamphlet? If so, what do you think of it?

[LTPS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 12:46 am
And the IRSP do? Please don't take this as any kind of personal attack, it's just I have never, ever came across anyone from the IRSP in my area, and I'm from the lower Falls.
As Makaveli said this mural on the site of the old barracks is the first I've come across the IRSP working on water charges.

I'm from the lower Falls as well, we know there were (are?) Irps down here, but to say they have a working-class footing is absolutely ridiculous, even in Divis now they do little-to-nothing.

CAWC is a dead duck, the WWPC has consistently raised the issue time and time again until now where the main parties are feeling the pressure and take out full-page adverts in the papers. The Trade Unions got on board with their own campaign, and now Sean Mitchell, that urban guerilla that he is, is looking elected on an anti-water charges ticket.

I don't want to be seen to big myself up, but I dare say I've done more work than that goon. The best example I can remember is when the WWPC picketed the BBC when Hain was due on Let's Talk. Freezing cold, pishing down and we (a small enough group I'll be honest) made a hell of a lot of noise and even got the audience queing up to join in.

Half an hour passes and then over walks Mitchell and a hand-full of other SWP'ers, grab a poster each and stand there, 5 minutes later they decide it's a bit too cold and wet for this non-payment crap and fuck off to a bar.

The material the SWP are passing out to people is also ridiculous, especially the one where they try to give people advice on how to avoid the charges, if I was an ordinary Joe reading it, I would not be filled with much confidence to be honest, they sounded like they were out of their depth.

''You could just tag the water companies along until they threaten to take you to court, then pay....''

How the fuck is that a non-payment campaign?

Remember folks, Votail Mitchell #1

Aye right!

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 07, 2007 12:32 am
Despite this there are some criticisms to be made - I think this is politically opportunistic. If the IRSP were serious about fighting water charges they would have been helping to build a mass non-payment campaign for a whole year as the SP has been. Not just throwing out calls for a non-payment campaign when the charges are less that a month away from introduction.

If it's been our position for a few years now, I can't see how it's opportunistic. Once again this isn't the first time we've been involved in this campaign, just the latest.

No need to be territorial about which campaign you're involved with - our spokesman said he supports the massive campaign unconditionally. We support everyone involved in this struggle.

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 07, 2007 01:32 am

The problem the We Won't Pay campaign has, and the same was true for a number of other groups, is that they tend to parachute into an area, organise a meeting, then head on to the next area for the next meeting and so forth. They have no strong footing in working class areas
I don't agree with that at all, we have done our best to spread the campaign and wherever members exist we have leafletted and organised meeting. This would incorporate most of West Belfast, and Belfast as a whole.
Even where members don't live you have leafletted and organised meetings. What I'm saying is that the WWPC has not done enough follow up work in these areas. Getting 80,000 people to sign an anti-water charges petition is good, but when it actually comes to organising to fight against water charges, well this ties into the point below.



CAWT to its credit has done more work
It hasn't. The WWPC has offered concrete support and advice to working-class people whereas the CAWT has really been little more than an SWP front without any real analysis or advice.
You're quoting me rather selectively there. What I actually wrote was "CAWT to its credit has done more work, IMHO, to get local people in the communities to organise themselves against the water charges". I've been to several meetings in West Belfast organised by several anti-water charges groups, and from what I've seen the CAWT has been doing the most to make sure that there's a least a core group of local people who are going to organise in each community.




Another problem is that We Won't Pay, in several meetings I've attened, have demanded that everyone join their organisation on their terms, which really isn't feasible.
How is building a mass non-payment camapign "unfeasible"?
That's not what I said. What I stated was unfeasible was the demands of the WWPC, a small group made up of the SP and a handful of anarchists, that everybody - the trade unions, the other water charges groups, local community activists and ordinary people - fall in behind their lead. The SP are not a vanguard that the workers are going to follow.



I really don't understand your criticisms...the WWPC is the biggest, most active and most radically-minded as opposed to the myriad other campaigns (which have almost all died off now). Other nationalists like yourselves have worked with us without problems.

I'm not sure if that is what you're suggesting but Community groups alone can't be relied on to fight the charges as they recieve a lot of their funding from the government itself.
I never said community groups, I said community activists. It is community activists where I live who are at the head of the anti-water charges struggle here. So if we organise ourselves as a community against water charges, and we share the same slogans as the WWPC, CAWT and trade unions - no double tax, no privatisation - and we believe that non-payment is currently the only possible way of defeating the charges, why should we have to align ourselves to or fall in behind any group at all?



In the end I welcome the IRSP in fighting water charge - we should beat the water charges as the working-class already have a determind non-payment attitude. The WWPC has played a but significant role in developing this attitude through our concrete actions (stalls, leafletting, meetings) over the year past.
The WWPC has indeed done its part, as have others. The anti-water charges campaign does not belong to the WWPC, to suggest otherwise would be nothing more than politically sectarian (not to mention untrue).

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 01:46 am

Actually, the Irps were out on the water charges issue before the SP, and way before the We Won't Pay Campaign was set up

Can I have info on when the Irps set up their campaign on water charges? Because this is the first I've heard of it.
The IRSP never set up their own campaign. They were involved in one of the many umbrella groups that were set up, I could be wrong but I think it was Communities Against Water Charges, and they organised a good contingent of people for the 2004 May Day rally in Belfast and they all wore shirts and handed out leaflets on the water charges issue. Then they did fall quiet for a while, except for in North Belfast I think.




They have no strong footing in working class areas.

And the IRSP do? Please don't take this as any kind of personal attack, it's just I have never, ever came across anyone from the IRSP in my area, and I'm from the lower Falls.
You'll have to ask someone from the IRSP about that I'm afraid.

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by Tiocfaidh Ár Lá@March 07, 2007 10:43 am
I don't want to be seen to big myself up, but I dare say I've done more work than that goon. The best example I can remember is when the WWPC picketed the BBC when Hain was due on Let's Talk. Freezing cold, pishing down and we (a small enough group I'll be honest) made a hell of a lot of noise and even got the audience queing up to join in.
I was there too, comrade. I took some photos and put a piece on Indymedia about it...

Belfast Water Charges protest (http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80010)

[The Grey Blur]

Even where members don't live you have leafletted and organised meetings.
We shouldn't have done this? We have tried to expand the campaign at all times and have had success.


You're quoting me rather selectively there.
Sorry 'bout that.


I've been to several meetings in West Belfast organised by several anti-water charges groups, and from what I've seen the CAWT has been doing the most to make sure that there's a least a core group of local people who are going to organise in each community.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I've seen the WWPC do more work and on a much more regular basis. We acknowledged the critiscisms you made, in fact we always stressed the need not to just hold meetings and move on but create a key group of activists. I've seen this tactic work as well.


What I stated was unfeasible was the demands of the WWPC, a small group made up of the SP and a handful of anarchists, that everybody - the trade unions, the other water charges groups, local community activists and ordinary people - fall in behind their lead. The SP are not a vanguard that the workers are going to follow.
That's never been the "demands" of the WWPC. We in fact secured support from the trade unions before we did anything. A good part of our funding has come from NIPSA. The WWPC is actually the largest anti-water charges group and is made up of a lot more than "the SP


I never said community groups, I said community activists.
I never said you did. I didn't understand your original point so I just pointed out that fact.


It is community activists where I live who are at the head of the anti-water charges struggle here. So if we organise ourselves as a community against water charges, and we share the same slogans as the WWPC, CAWT and trade unions - no double tax, no privatisation - and we believe that non-payment is currently the only possible way of defeating the charges, why should we have to align ourselves to or fall in behind any group at all?
Of course not. The point is that a wide non-payment campaign is neccessary - the WWPC offered this, a ready-made network funded and ready to provide resources and manpower to community activists.


The WWPC has indeed done its part, as have others. The anti-water charges campaign does not belong to the WWPC, to suggest otherwise would be nothing more than politically sectarian (not to mention untrue).
:rolleyes: I never said that you had to "fall-in behind" us, that's a total strawman.

I stated the fact that the WWPC has been the widest, biggest and most effective group in fighting the water charges. We have also at all times tried to link this up with Capitalism and how the charges are an attack on the working-class. It doesn't "belong" to us, as I said I welcome any movements willing to fight water charges, concretely.

When the bills arrive can people phone up the IRSP, the CAWT, the SWP, whatever, and ask concrete details on how to fight the water charges? No they can't, the can look at billboards and be given totally misleading advice. This is what I mean by concrete actions - backing up your words with action and support. If the IRSP or community activists like yourself can offer this when the government is threatening people with court then I fully welcome them into the struggle.

[LTPS]

Originally posted by Conghaileach+March 08, 2007 03:59 pm--> (Conghaileach @ March 08, 2007 03:59 pm)
Tiocfaidh Ár Lá@March 07, 2007 10:43 am
I don't want to be seen to big myself up, but I dare say I've done more work than that goon. The best example I can remember is when the WWPC picketed the BBC when Hain was due on Let's Talk. Freezing cold, pishing down and we (a small enough group I'll be honest) made a hell of a lot of noise and even got the audience queing up to join in.
I was there too, comrade. I took some photos and put a piece on Indymedia about it...

Belfast Water Charges protest (http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80010) [/b]
Thankfully I'm just out of camera-shot in most of them this time, I'm lurking in the background of one, the SP put my pic on their Water Charges pamphlet :blush:

[quirk]

Originally posted by "BOZG
QUOTE
Irish natural recources are being given to foreign and multinational companies to be sold back to the Irish people, with the complete agreement of all the constitutional political parties.

It is about the theft of our natural recources and the denial of our national sovereignty.



So what if they're foreign and multinational companies? Does the theft and exploitation of natural resources by Irish/British capitalism make it better? This is a question of theft by capitalism, not of specific capitalist classes.


Yes you are correct, but what I was trying to get at is that we can use this argument to get more nationalist minded people on board the campaign.

[quirk]

The recent talks in London between the constitutional political parties and the British Government with the aim of postponing the upcoming water bills for the first year, is in itself an admission by the parties that they will agree to the charges after that year.

The 32 County Sovereignty Movement calls on all the people of the north to refuse to pay the new water charges if they are introduced in April, but also if they are not to use the next year to build massive opposition at a grass roots level. As we already pay for water as part of our rates bill, the introduction of these charges will mean that the people of the six counties will now be paying twice.

But more importantly this constitutes the theft of Irish natural resources by a British company, and just one more of the negative effects of the British occupation of our country.

International law states that "The right of peoples and nations to permanent sovereignty over their natural wealth and resources must be exercised in the interest of their national development and of the well-being of the people of the State concerned." (General Assembly resolution 1803)

The privatization and sale of our own water back to us however will be done only in the interests of a few company directors, and certainly not "in the interest of their national development and of the well-being of the people" of Ireland. We contest that this charge is in fact a breach of International law, and as such it is not only our right but our duty to refuse to pay.

We would call on those who have not done so already to join one of the groups set up specifically to oppose water charges, such as the "we won't pay campaign" who have done excellent work, but which can only improve with numbers.

Finally we would ask people to think what will happen if they fail to stand up and resist? Already there is talk that in the near future we will have to pay to have our bins emptied. Now is the time to take a stand against the theft and privatization of Irish natural resources and the blatant disregard for our national sovereignty.

Kevin Murphy
PRO
32 County Sovereignty Movement
South Armagh
[email protected]

[PRC-UTE]

Water charges deal may be offered to get Assembly going
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/loc...icle2353284.ece (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2353284.ece)

Tuesday, March 13, 2007

By Chris Thornton

Hopes were rising last night that the Government is prepared to hold back
water charges if the parties agree to share power at Stormont by the end
of the month.

Delegations met with Treasury officials last night to work over the
details of a possible financial package.

Talks with Chancellor Gordon Brown are expected to follow next week after
Mr Brown delivers his budget.

After initial talks with the Government yesterday, several party leaders
focused on the possibility of getting water charges - due to begin next
month - put on hold.

The Treasury has been the driving force behind the introduction of water
charges. The last functioning Executive at Stormont was threatened with
budget restrictions if they did not agree to bring in the tap tax.

Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams said his party wants to secure a "
significant peace dividend".

"We would want to use a portion of this additional money to abolish the
additional water charges being driven through by the British Direct Rule
Ministers," he said.

Ulster Unionist leader Sir Reg Empey said: "This was simply the most
significant single bread-and-butter issue when we were going around the
doorsteps."

[Goatse]

Water tax? Pffft, next they'll have meters on your mouths and they'll be taxing that too.