Best ways to study Marxism?

[R_P_A_S]

I was wondering if you guys could recommend the best ways to study Marxism.
I've decided to do this 3 days a week. each day 2 to 4 hours of reading and then discussing it here with you guys.

I know there's 3 aspects of Marxism, Philosophy, Economics, and History correct? so what are the best works I could start off with? lets say levels 1 to 3. for each of the three subjects.

[Vargha Poralli]

That could really be good. I find much less time time reading in my current job situation anyway.


I know there's 3 aspects of Marxism, Philosophy, Economics, and History correct? so what are the best works I could start off with? lets say levels 1 to 3. for each of the three subjects.

You need not be a master of those subjects .It is enough you have basic understanding in them . You make it more easy to study and understand key concepts I would recommend this collection of study guides from marxists.org (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/guides/index.htm) which involves key works which could help understand what marxism is about. I would be very much delightd if we could start a Study group here.

[R_P_A_S]

lets do the study group.

[Political_Chucky]

I try and find time to study all this information, but sometimes it just gets so overwhelming. :|

[ComradeRed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 09:44 pm
I know there's 3 aspects of Marxism, Philosophy, Economics, and History correct? so what are the best works I could start off with? lets say levels 1 to 3. for each of the three subjects.
In my experience, philosophy has been least important (as a matter of fact, I would assert that you could remove it from the list all together).

Historical Materialism and the "tools of Marxism" are the important things to learn, as well as Marxist economics of course.

I would suggest to read and critically think about what you are reading. Is this stuff sensical, is it applicable, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't matter who said or created an idea, what matters is whether it's a good idea!

Then again I'm "Old School" in this matter.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by ComradeRed+March 15, 2007 06:37 am--> (ComradeRed @ March 15, 2007 06:37 am)
[email protected] 14, 2007 09:44 pm
I know there's 3 aspects of Marxism, Philosophy, Economics, and History correct? so what are the best works I could start off with? lets say levels 1 to 3. for each of the three subjects.
In my experience, philosophy has been least important (as a matter of fact, I would assert that you could remove it from the list all together).

Historical Materialism and the "tools of Marxism" are the important things to learn, as well as Marxist economics of course.

I would suggest to read and critically think about what you are reading. Is this stuff sensical, is it applicable, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't matter who said or created an idea, what matters is whether it's a good idea!

Then again I'm "Old School" in this matter. [/b]
thanks for reminding me, reminding me to THINK about what I'm reading. the reason this stuff makes so much damn sense to me is because I actually think about what I'm reading and its always pretty dead on to the truth. some things are not really all there for me. but most yes.

[Raúl Duke]

What about Marxist sociology?

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 06:16 am
What about Marxist sociology?
I think this fits into philosophy.

[Janus]

I think this fits into philosophy.
No, Marx's sociology views are incorporated into most of his socio-political analysis.

As for studying, read Marx's works as well as more recent analysis and check out study guides or help forums if you have any questions.

[Ander]

Ah, my mistake.

I study a little Marx in my sociology class, although I do have to defend him from my teacher.

[Raúl Duke]

I ask sociology becaue I think I'm interested in majoring in sociology (well, actually; I'm going to try to get a student-designed "concentration" of social science but most of it would be concentrated on sociology.)

[Ander]

Originally posted by J[email protected] 15, 2007 08:41 pm
I ask sociology becaue I think I'm interested in majoring in sociology (well, actually; I'm going to try to get a student-designed "concentration" of social science but most of it would be concentrated on sociology.)
Sociology is extremely interesting, I was thinking about getting into it in university. But be careful, there is a lot of reactionary bullshit involved with it.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Just get thre Marx & Engels reader, it has most of the highlights, and its organized into sections. I read too many books at once, and I've skipped around in that, and read other works on-line before getting the reader. The only part I've been consistant with is the Early Marx and it really does help you understand how his theories grew and crystalized.

I seen that you've read or are are Reading Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts on 1844, this too is in there, and this is pretty much the core of his theories and he expands on this later.

I doubt you're not so new to Marxism, but those who are, aswell as getting the Reader I also suggest Marx- By Rius, its a bit like a comic book but it gives you the general idea. For those who havent read it already, the Communist Manifesto is in the reader, so after reading Rius, go onto reading that,then start from the beginning.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Jello+March 15, 2007 11:43 pm--> (Jello @ March 15, 2007 11:43 pm)
[email protected] 15, 2007 08:41 pm
I ask sociology becaue I think I'm interested in majoring in sociology (well, actually; I'm going to try to get a student-designed "concentration" of social science but most of it would be concentrated on sociology.)
Sociology is extremely interesting, I was thinking about getting into it in university. But be careful, there is a lot of reactionary bullshit involved with it. [/b]
Well at my Community College whenever anything in the book is Marx, they always have to follow it up with the failure of the USSR, and the claim that this failure discredits Marxism. Its a textbook so everything is really shallow in explaination.

[Jude]

This is a really good idea. We could have a designated book for everyone to read, or parts of one. We could have a thread for each "assignment", and the first post in the thread would be places where you can get the book, or links to a text or pdf file of the book. Each book discussion would be lead by someone who has read and understands the book, preferably someone who has taken a class on it. Each book can be followed up by a third party book which either explains or expands on the book.

[Rawthentic]

I'd love to do this comrades, it would solidify my theory a bit.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by EL KABLAMO+March 16, 2007 01:36 am--> (EL KABLAMO @ March 16, 2007 01:36 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 11:43 pm

[email protected] 15, 2007 08:41 pm
I ask sociology becaue I think I'm interested in majoring in sociology (well, actually; I'm going to try to get a student-designed "concentration" of social science but most of it would be concentrated on sociology.)
Sociology is extremely interesting, I was thinking about getting into it in university. But be careful, there is a lot of reactionary bullshit involved with it.
Well at my Community College whenever anything in the book is Marx, they always have to follow it up with the failure of the USSR, and the claim that this failure discredits Marxism. Its a textbook so everything is really shallow in explaination. [/b]
here i go on my giant learning curve again.. is there any threads or books or web sites on how the failure of the Soviet Union does not discredit marx?

[( R )evolution]

RPAS, The USSR was not a communist society. It was as Trosky stated "A degenerated workers state" Marx wrote Das Kapital in England for a reason, England was very industrialized. Russia was not. In order to achieve real communism you need to be very industrialized. Marx argued for a stateless, classes society and the USSR was a big ass fucking state and still had classes. If you have seen any Marx principles and then viewed the USSR you would realize they are opposite. The USSR was ruled by the communist party, while in real communism it is run by the workers not a group of people in a party choosing everything for everybody. And the list goes on, do a few searches and you will find more specifics if you seek them.

RPAS, I know you know all of this shit already but you just cant seem to connect it sometimes. I know you have read all of the countless threads in which people argued that the USSR was never a communist society. Just try to remember this shit and focus your mind. You can read all the Marxist books and shit but it is useless if you cant connect it.

Also, I would love to be apart of this little study group. I personally focus only on the economic and political structure described the communist fathers rather than any philosophy. I try to study information that will help the struggle in todays age not back in the 19th century.

[Jude]

Is there anyone who has taken any classes on Marxism? Or any of his works specifically? Once we find someone who has, we can get started! Jolly good show, eh?

[Ander]

Count me way in if a study group arises from this.

[UndergroundConnexion]

me too

[Janus]

It's nice to see a study group spontaneously form like this. I only hope that this enthusiasm will last rather than simply diminish over time (which has happened with all the study groups to date).

As for the study group itself, I suppose someone can make some kind of announcement in the member's fourm and then start a book nominations thread in the Study group subforum. We'll see how it goes from there.

[More Fire for the People]

I said this before but my post got deleted. I would start off with some introductory / easy texts such as the Communist Manifesto to get familiar with the terminology used in Marxist theory — proletarian, bourgeois, etc. Then I would tackle a tract like State & Revolution, Leninism or Marxism?, Wretched of the Earth, etc. [ Personally I'm trying to finish Wretched of the Earth and start Kamenka's Ethical Foundations of Marxism ]. Then I would go back to easy texts to re-examine them with gained knowledge, then harder ones, then easy, etc.

[UndergroundConnexion]

to keep some structure (and keeps things going) , I think that using the study guides on marxists.org would be efficient.

I'd personally indeed recomend to start with the communist mafniest.
also the texts should not be too long as that would maybe be fukd for the people who dont have the books and have to print out 200 pages.

[Raúl Duke]

If someone starts a leftist basic sociology/social science study group count me in.

[UndergroundConnexion]

sooooooooooo waddup

how is this going to be organized?
what works will be studies

[Jude]

We will begin with Das Kapital for a look into Marxist economics. The post will be made in the Learning forum, and we will read Chapter 1 first for an in-depth discussion of Commodity. Discussions will last 1 week per chapter.

[UndergroundConnexion]

is this the final decision??

I hope that you aware that with this tempo then, its gonna take about a year to read as kapital, and i do not many will bear with us that whole time

I think that other workds would be more appropiate to start with.

Let's start with the communist manifest i'd say

[( R )evolution]

I think we should do communist manifesto first Das Kaptial would be a very hard read because of the outside knowledge (economics) needed to understand it. Most people who are interested in the study group understand terms like bourgeois and etc. so it would be a easier read and more of a beginner text and once we have finished that we can move on towards other books. Not everyone praticapting in this study group are veteran commies.

[Machiavelli]

i prefer reading all available matter on a subject, for and against, as this provides multiple view points on all aspects of a matter. It also enables you to counter another persons arguments if you already know what he is going to say to you

[UndergroundConnexion]

ok the majority of the people here would thus like to go for the Manifest.

How yet would we do this ? By following a study guide right?

I would suggest we do the one on marxists.org and follow do one chapter a week.
We answer the questionns, and possibly discuss them. (although the flow should be kept).

Das kapital in my opinion would take much too long.

I suggest we call the threats

MSG (being marxist study group) - (name of the work being studied)

[UndergroundConnexion]

uhm is there still interest?

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 03:29 am
uhm is there still interest?
yes check out the study groups subforum. A poll had been made about from where to begin with.

[Jude]

When will this begin?

We should all read the same copy. When the post is begun, someone should provide a link to the version we will all use.

[UndergroundConnexion]

check in the "study groups " subforum (under learning ), and look at "The principles of communism"