Does Religion have a credible basis

[thebigcom]

there have been many dominant religions dating through the ages, and if you look at them closely enough they are exactly the same. judiasm and christianity denounce the worship of many gods, or the belief of gods watching over or being part of a specific aspect of our life. Christianity has "patron saints" which are the saints that are attributed with certain aspects of our lives. the gods of roman culture and the god of christianity both have mothers, one being a titan, the other the virgin mary (virgin my ass). but most importantly are the stories that we now call myths. back in roman times those stories were th equivalent of scripture. i believe its only a matter of time before the bible is looked on as the most enduring collection of myths. finally we must accept both faiths were continued on blind faith, the bible is far too old and distorted at this stage to be considered credible, which means the religions share a common heritage. the heritage of being mans only way to explain his seemingly pointless existence on earth.


(let it be noted that the previous text was original and not used or stolen from any scholar, and duplication of sed material is incidental)

[Fires of History]

Thebigcom,

Great! I am glad you're thinking historically. :) And I agree with you that each of us is awash in an endless sea of meaninglessness. I like that actually, but others don't. I think if things are truly meaningless, we can create our own meaning. But that's another thread entirely my friend.

There is, however, an older tradition from which most monotheistic religions are based on: Paganism. Paganism, as RedCeltic (thank you!) has helped me discover, is actually the basis for most traditions, practices, and beliefs of what eventually became monotheism.

You're right though, religion emcompasses the unknowable. And for that reason it will always be.

However, I think that Paganism is the closest form of honesty, in terms of religion, that exists. Paganism sees a natural equilibrium with nature, rather than the dominant model of nature that monotheist religions prescribe.

And while I am not a very 'religious' man, Paganism's philosophy has shown me the true mystery of our existence here on this little rock on one of the most distanct galaxies in our universe.

I guess I better let RedCeltic take it form here...

[Linksradikaler]

My website is http://www.churchwatch.org

I do quite a bit of thinking about religion from a dialectical point of view. An interesting fact: religion did not seem to become monotheistic until nation-states were invented.

Top-down state, top-down religion. "If our 'tribe' (or village, or kingdom, or race) has boundaries and a tough male leader, so must the Universe." Voila. God is born.

[ratm545]

you can't denounce something because of its credibility. thats the faith part of religon, believing in what you cannot prove or see. and i am christian, and we don't have saints. thats the catholics, a branch from the christian church. even if i am wrong about there being God and his son Jesus. it's not a big deal when i die. nothing will happen to me. but if an atheist dies and there is a God he's kinda fucked......

[Supermodel]

Just be careful not to confuse
a) organized church doctrine
B) a true faith and relationship with one's maker
c) spirituality.

Lot of talk about all three in this thread.

You can be a committed Christian or Jew without being involved in any way in the church. You can be spiritually connected to the earth and heavens without defining yourself as religious.

Faith is defined as believing in something that cannot be proven.

Each of us needs to consider why we are here, where we go next

Each of us needs to consider why things happen, how colonies of ants form, why the ocean evaporates and turns into snow.....curiosity over these questions leads eventually to some form of faith in the unknown that is beyond human consciousness.

[deadpool 52]

Once you said "think about it" I knew this was garbage.

I guess this whole thread is not about religion in general, but about Christianity and Judaism.
I do not know if any of you read The Book of Enoch or the Dead Sea Scrolls, but much of Christian and Jewish religion is based upon myth, but still, you do not need to read those in order to figure that one out.

And there is still Zoroastorism.

[Fires of History]

Quote: from Linksradikaler on 2:28 pm on July 17, 2002
An interesting fact: religion did not seem to become monotheistic until nation-states were invented.
Top-down state, top-down religion. "If our 'tribe' (or village, or kingdom, or race) has boundaries and a tough male leader, so must the Universe." Voila. God is born.


Linksradikaler,

Well you know how to get to the heart of the matter, well said. Just as nation states are dependent on hierarchy and domination, so does organized religion. I might have more respect for monotheism if it wasn't the conceptual equivalent of a beehive.

RATM545 said, "even if i am wrong about there being God and his son Jesus. it's not a big deal when i die. nothing will happen to me. but if an atheist dies and there is a God he's kinda fucked......"

That's not spirituality, that's just playing it safe.

"I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time," said Friedrich Nietzsche. And he's right. If monotheistic texts teach us one thing about 'god,' it's that he is vain, conceited, self-centered...just like the men who invented him, thinking then that Earth was the center of the entire universe lol...

Deadpool52,

Yes! Based on centuries of myth...nothing more.

(Edited by Fires of History at 9:08 pm on July 17, 2002)

[samaniego]

I think your point is weak. You can't prove or disprove God. And if life is meaning less to you guy's why in the fuck are you here on che lives? If life is meaning less enjoy it buy everthing you want and ignore every thing if it's all meaning-less.

[PunkRawker677]

From bottom up -

Sam: One does not need to believe in good to want change. I believe in Humanity, and not an all-mighty entity. Humanity is not waste and meaningless without god. It is still beautiful, complicated, and somewhat fragile and still worth fighting for.

Deadpool: "but much of Christian and Jewish religion is based upon myth". The pagans in the mesopotamian area invented Noad and the Ark (the great flood) and many other bible stories in most religions..

Supermodel: I'm gonna spend a bit longer with you =)..
"Just be careful not to confuse
a) organized church doctrine
B) a true faith and relationship with one's maker
c) spirituality. "
This i agree with, there is definitly a difference in all three of these and although they can be easily confused, they should not be. NOW --
"Each of us needs to consider why we are here, where we go next"
No we don't. We may opt to, but we do not NEED to consider these things. And god is not the only way of considering these things (not that i am saying you were inclining to say that, because i dont know), there is also science. What if you dont care WHY you are here? I, personally, do care and i don't believe in god at all..

ratm45:
"even if i am wrong about there being God and his son Jesus. it's not a big deal when i die. nothing will happen to me. but if an atheist dies and there is a God he's kinda fucked...... " As Fire of History said, that is not faith at all, that is just playing it safe.. Thats like saying: I'll never go in the water because theres a possibility i will drown, so if i never go in, i can never drown.. or better yet: I will never eat food again cause i might get poisoned, so if i dont eat, i cant get poisoned... ???

im tired.. thats enough for now..

[thebigcom]

ratm545 what the hell are you talking about? im not denouncing religion. im merley trying to make people think about what they blindly believe in everyday. saying that you believe in god just in case there is one is easily the most spineless thing i've ever heard. thats not faith thats fear. oh by the way i said christian because catholocism is not a sect, its the original christian church, all others are modifications by those who felt that they could still have christ without obeying his rules from the bible.


deadpool, of course this thread is about judiasm and christianity, name one other religion that plays as big a part as these two do. my point is every religion is simply a modification of another one. also if you knew it was garbage why did you bother reading it? and i dont belive i have had the time to read the book of encoch or the dead sea scrolls, perhaps you could enlighten me. and while your at it explain the principles of zoraostorism

[Lardlad95]

ok did anyone consider the fact that Noah and the ark may have actualy occured because there are many different acounts from different areas?

Also who gives a damn what religion is based on none of the muthafuckas who try to prove or disprove God's existence can prove their case so who gives a shit.

[stick person]

Quote: from ratm545 on 5:20 pm on July 17, 2002
even if i am wrong about there being God and his son Jesus. it's not a big deal when i die. nothing will happen to me. but if an atheist dies and there is a God he's kinda fucked......


That's called Pascal's Wager, and it is absolute garbage. When you die, you are wagering that there is a God and that that god is the one you have been worshipping, and that you have been doing it correctly. What if you have been worshipping that god incorrectly? What if your incorrect worship has pissed that god off? What if you have been worshipping the wrong god? What if the only true god is Cthulu, and the destination of your soul is his stomach? Arguing for your religion on the basis of Pascal's Wager is foolish, since there are too many variables. Have your religion because you like to have it and it makes you feel happy, not because you can prove it in anyway or because you are a frightened little mouse afraid that a supernatural being may slap you down later. My friend, if fear is all that is keeping you religious, it is high time to become an atheist.

[Lardlad95]

what about people like me who don't believe in God out of fear but believe because they believe?

[El Che]

Its not meant to have a "credible" base... It has the base it has, nothing more nothing less. But anyway this discussion is old