A communist society.

[ComradeJunichi]

How are you sure that people won't slack off? And every job occupation will be filled?

[Nateddi]

If you slack off you get punished appropriately, what makes you think you wont be?

Every occupation wont be full, society innovates itself creating more occupations; space is the final frontier, occupations will never be full.

[Revolution Hero]

People will be highly councious in a communist society, they will be responsible for themselves and in front of all other people.
Work will become life necessity, something a man will do, because he likes it and can't live without it.

[Conghaileach]

The people will know that they work towards helping people and helping society. They'll have "moral incentives" as Che put it.

[Comrade Revolution]

hi ppl. today i'm not in a good mood.. maybe i'm a little bit sad today... and i think.. would it work? cause ppl r so different.. maybe it wouldn't work cause there's allways bad ppl.. and even if they are punished, will it work..
well.. just cheer me up today ppl..
i'm a communist, and i know i have to fight for a better world, and i'll try.. when i'm back from this mood..
think: HLVS!

[stick person]

So what if some people slack off? Most people enjoy having something to do; even slackers generally only goof around for a short while before they are completely bored. Maybe they could be on an "on-call" list for emergency work--fighting forest fires, rescuing flood victims, whatever. As for all occupational categories being filled, there is no guarantee of that now. Financial incentives for taking difficult jobs are less important to the people who take them than the satisfaction they get from the work, or the ability to work a flexible schedule, or whatever. Those non-financial incentives would be more attractive to more people in a truly communistic society, where basic security is assured for all.

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from Comrade Revolution on 2:53 am on July 27, 2002
maybe it wouldn't work cause there's allways bad ppl.. and even if they are punished, will it work..



that is sort of what I think. I don't think that there will always nescesarily be bad people but more like greedy people. And there will always be lazy people. Not everyone is willing to help the community because he feels he has a moral responsibility to do so. i feel this way, personally but not everyone does. And punishment will not always be a proper solution. Where do you draw the line? What punishment is proper punishment? do you cut off their hands or do they not get desert? By promoting punishment you are promoting legalism. Punishment is not the answer. People shouldn't be payed more than others but they do need an incentive to work other than "benefiting the people" I mean common...let's face it. Not everyone wants to help others. do you really want to work knowing that you get to help pay for your neighbor who lives across the street that you don't like? No. People need some sort of incentive other than money. i have tried to examine this question thoroughly and frankly I have came up with this much. i agree with Mikhail gorbachev that people need to promote oppenness among themselves. People who work must have a say in the descisions that the government make. The people must have a right to critiscize what they feel is unjust or backwards in society. When people are listened to and no longer treated like instruments of production as in capitalism, then they will work. their incentive will be that they have an individual voice and their own say in society. they will work because they know that they are making a difference and not just augmenting the profits of a company and trying to move up the corporate ladder. That is why I feel communism will work and has NOT worked in the past. Communist countries in the past have been quite frankly, very oppressive. I don't feel I need to cite examples. I am sure you all know of Stalin and Mao as well as others. Communism will work when the people are heard and the U.S. stops fucking other countries over with the blockades. Then and only then will communism work.

(Edited by man in the red suit at 7:31 am on July 28, 2002)

[marxistdisciple]

That's really true MITRS, and I think people will care more about their society when they are in one which supports each other and doesn't encourage competition for jobs and money. Have you seen what kids are like nowadays? Every generation gets more andm ore selfish, and I believe these are products of capitalism. It creates devision between people who would normally see eye to eye, it vreates misstrust and jealosy, it creates poverty.

As for an incentive to make people work - most people like to do something anyway. I know people who sit around all day, they have a system that supports that. I think that in order to encourage people to work have a set of rules - firstly, people who are working get better benefits. I.e. people who don't work get basic necessities etc, people who do work get nicer food and more alcohol, stuff like that. There is also the question about differences in "pay" that people always bring up. If someone is higher in the organisation, should they therefore get btter benefits for being there? How about making benefits proportional to need/responsibility. I.e. someone who drives for their job gets a nicer car than someone who only uses it at weekends...these kind of things. In order to encourage people to get involved in society, they must realise they have real influence on the way it is run and it will be very hard for people to adjust to a change s big as this. That's why I think it will happen over a long time, and generatiosn will need to become naturally more socialist. I don't think it can happen by a revolution, because to keep control then, the government must become opressive. We could firstly evolve away from profit making industry, any excess would go to the state and be spent on public services.

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 12:17 pm on July 28, 2002

As for an incentive to make people work - most people like to do something anyway. I know people who sit around all day, they have a system that supports that. I think that in order to encourage people to work have a set of rules - firstly, people who are working get better benefits. I.e. people who don't work get basic necessities etc, people who do work get nicer food and more alcohol, stuff like that. There is also the question about differences in "pay" that people always bring up. If someone is higher in the organisation, should they therefore get btter benefits for being there? How about making benefits proportional to need/responsibility. I.e. someone who drives for their job gets a nicer car than someone who only uses it at weekends...these kind of things. In order to encourage people to get involved in society, they must realise they have real influence on the way it is run and it will be very hard for people to adjust to a change s big as this. That's why I think it will happen over a long time, and generatiosn will need to become naturally more socialist. I don't think it can happen by a revolution, because to keep control then, the government must become opressive. We could firstly evolve away from profit making industry, any excess would go to the state and be spent on public services.



yes! definitely, I agree with you on your points on work being proportional to basic nessescities. I also agree that communism can not be put into effect properly through a revolution. I believe that it takes time and evolution for socialism to be put into its full beneficial form. Creating an economy takes time and paticence. you must be determined and hardworking, but you must not rush everything at once. Socialism will have a snowball effect, in my opinion. I believe that as time continues, socialism will progress and gain momentum until it can be implemented into a society correctly without the majority of negative effects seen in socialist societies of the past.



(Edited by man in the red suit at 11:00 pm on July 29, 2002)

[Comrade Revolution]

I think you are both right. i agree with that - ppl who work get more benefits, or something like that, i.e. ppl are rewarded for working; right?

but i think that's the ideal of communism right?
that's all we communists want. a better world, a fair world, where no one will explor ppl, and no one will be exploited.

but do you realy think, that ppl today would agree with that, i mean: the capitalists? (or others like them).

a think they will fight for their sistem (and they are allowed! and ppl should have that right.)

i'm saing this cos.. capitalist use such methods to achieve their meanings (like, lie, and.. u know!..)

but it's true, if we achieve communism, we have passed the worst. and we'll be more than capitalists..

but i keep thinking that will be difficult to achieve communism. But i'll be fighting for it too!

and to achieve real communism, it will take a lot of time, a lot of decays, i think.. but of course we should fight for it. allways for a better world, to us all and for the future.

Well.. final words:

i think, that if we get to a communist society, then it wont be hard to live like that, if we don't have ppl from other contries (like the hypocrite usa) doing what they do now..

and i think it will take time to get there, cos capitalist are cheating on ppl, they lie. and a lot of ppl can't see the true.


i hope you can understand what i say, sorry my bad english :P

but what it's important is:

that we stay united!
and we think like che: Hasta la victoria siempre!
and quoting someone from this community:

"I'm gonna change the world one day! Or, maybe i wont, but i'll be damned if i dont try."