Marxism in the middle east.

[R_P_A_S]

I rarely or NEVER hear of any comrades in the middle east. there's very little talk or leftist activity in that region of the world... (AND NO ANTI-AMERICA RADICAL ISLAMIST IS NOT REVOLUTIONARY) anyways. why do you guys think this is?

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

Didn't the US oust a socialist in Iran and replace him with the Shah?

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 09:37 am
Didn't the US oust a socialist in Iran and replace him with the Shah?
No. The ousted guy Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh was no way a socialist. He is a democratic Nationalist and he was the Prime Minister to shah.He just kept shah more a symbolic ruler and held himself all power. Th US helped UK to oust him bnecause he natoionalised Anglo-Persian Oil company and its properties.


**************************************************

The main problem of Communists in the middle east is the religion. They have made a historic blunder in th early days by propaganding Atheism first. Another trouble is pseudo socialist Pan-Arab movement which rose up in 50's which provided an alternative refuge to workers and peasants.

[ComradeR]

I remember hearing that both Iraq under Saddam's regime and the Iranian theocratic republic have violently repressed communists.
Also let's not forget the socialist state that existed in afghanistan until the US backed Mujahideen overthrew it.

[BobKKKindle$]

The Kibbitzum communities in Israel are of interest to socialists as possible models on which a socialist society could be based, due to their highly egalitarian distribution of wealth and collectivist social relations. However, very few explicitly advocate Communism as a political ideology.

[Schleppy]

Also, you have to understand that when we're discussing Marxism, we need to think in terms of stages of development. In Marxism, you can't just skip industrialist capitalism and expect things to work out.

[( R )evolution]

Leftist movements are very hard to gather in the middle east because the religion factor is very hard for people to get over. Most Arabs are grown up in very religious Islamic families and one of the most principal things of Marxism is the anti-religious materialism (and other things) which differs from Islamic ideals. Most of the middle-east is very religious and leftist anti-religious ideas are shunned upon within the school system and within the very society itself.

[Devrim]

I wonder if those pontificating about the reasons for the lack of Marxists in the Middle East have ever actually been there. When comparing to the west, I don't see a lack of 'Marxists' in the Middle East. Maybe the reason you feel that is because not many of them post here. I would put that down to the fact that this is an English language forum. Although other people in our organisation can speak some English only two of us, Leo and ,I have the English to regularly write on here.

Devrim

[ComradeOm]

There have been, at various times, sizeable Communist organisations in both Iraq and Iran. Throughout the rest of the region the more general Arab Socialism was the preferred ideology with organisations such as the PLO having a secular, and leftist, base.

So, unless we discount a massive increase in the importance and popularity of religion in the Middle East in recent years, the argument that political Islam is actively hindering the growth of class consciousness can be said to be false. Simply writing off Arab populations as simply more susceptible to religious brainwashing is lazy in the extreme

[( R )evolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 11:18 am
There have been, at various times, sizeable Communist organisations in both Iraq and Iran. Throughout the rest of the region the more general Arab Socialism was the preferred ideology with organisations such as the PLO having a secular, and leftist, base.

So, unless we discount a massive increase in the importance and popularity of religion in the Middle East in recent years, the argument that political Islam is actively hindering the growth of class consciousness can be said to be false. Simply writing off Arab populations as simply more susceptible to religious brainwashing is lazy in the extreme
My family is from Iraq, I speak Arabic and I was a Muslim before I became a atheist. I was in Iraq no less than 6 months ago and I have been in Syria and Morocco for months. I have looked up leftist movements in Damascus and Casablanca and I did not see that many organizations. I am not saying that Arabs are more susceptible to religious brain washing. I am simply saying that a young kid who has grown up in a very religious family and there whole society is very religious is not going to atomically jump to Marxism. Arab Socialism which was a very popular movement within the middle-east was based off the rejection of Marxism. In order to reach the Arab population we cant go in, like alot of leftist want to do, and say your religion is wrong, Marxism is right. If we do this than none of the masses will listen to you.

[manic expression]

This might be way off topic, but if anyone's seen "Reds", the Bolsheviks send activists to the middle east. I never knew the historical basis for this, but perhaps there was a communist movement there.

Oh, and really, not only is it a mistake to start telling people that their religion is wrong, it's completely unnecessary. I honestly don't care if a comrade is Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, strong/weak atheist or anything else, it really doesn't matter one bit; you can overthrow the bourgeoisie just fine while the guy next to you is praising Allah.

I understand that religion does carry potential side effects (looking to the afterlife instead of action in this world), but that can easily be avoided and made meaningless, so IMO, blindly criticizing people's beliefs is something that doesn't need to happen.

[Fodman]

i heard the leader of the Iraqi Communist Party was killed by the Americans in the first few months of the Iraq war in 2003 - 'by mistake'

[Pirate Utopian]

do any of you peeps think it's a factor that Marx was of Jewish ancestry?

[More Fire for the People]

Worker-Communist Party of Iran (http://www.wpiran.org/English/english.htm)
Worker-Communist Party of Iraq (http://www.wpiraq.net/english/index.htm)
Federation of Workers Councils and Unions in Iraq (http://www.uuiraq.org/)
Iraqi Freedom Congress (http://www.ifcongress.com/English/)

[The Grey Blur]

There has actually historically been a large Marxist movement in the Middle East. Some examples have been given such as the Iranian CP which became quite large, with membership in the hundreds of thousands. Other Stalinist CPs grew quite strongly as well, reflecting the proleteriat desire for revolution which was unfortuantely channelled in unproductive ways.

Today there is still a Marxist movement in the Middle East - the PFLP in Palestine, the numerous Socialist groups in Israel, the Iraqi Freedom Congress in Iraq, etc.

The Middle Eastern working-class is no more nor less susceptible to the opium of religion than those in other countries - Abandoning all hope in the left forces there is an abandonment of the working-class!


In Marxism, you can't just skip industrialist capitalism and expect things to work out.
Are you actually suggesting there is no Middle Eastern working-class? :wacko:

http://k43.pbase.com/u25/yalop/upload/19837842.L9527.jpg

[RedKnight]

In much of the middle east the Communist party, if not all political partys, is banned. Ironicly the only country which has never banned the Communist movement is Israel.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 07:58 am
In much of the middle east the Communist party, if not all political partys, is banned.
If you are making an assertion you should properly back it up with sources. True there are countries like Saudi-Arabia and Iran but also there are countries like Lebanon,Yemen etc.


Ironicly the only country which has never banned the Communist movement is Israel.

That fact should not be used to Justify Israel , its apartheid policies and its historic crime crime making the lives of Palestinian miserable which continue still today.

[( R )evolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 02:28 am
In much of the middle east the Communist party, if not all political partys, is banned. Ironicly the only country which has never banned the Communist movement is Israel.
Israel doesn't allow the exuection of people does that stop them from killing innocent civilians and putting thousands of innocent people in jail for there whole lives? Dont use this to justify Israel actions against the Palestine people.

[RedKnight]

Which was why I used the words ironicly, and much of. Doesn&#39;t anyone have good reading comprehension anymore.:huh: This is at least the second time I&#39;ve posted something and someone else misinterpreted what I was conveying, taking my words out of context. <_<

[RNK]

There isn&#39;t any lack of Leftists in the Middle East as far as I can tell. They may be a little more obscure than we are in the West, but they are still there. The fact that Saddam had thousands of Communist members and supporters killed is direct evidence of the existance of it... although today it is different. But even so, there are even Maoist movements preaching people&#39;s war in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

[L.C.P]

Lebanese communist party... :blink:
Popular front for the liberation of palestine...

[L.C.P]

...

[( R )evolution]

I know of the Lebanese communist party. Next time I am in Lebanon I need to visit there headquarters.

[Janus]

I rarely or NEVER hear of any comrades in the middle east.
Little media focus on communists in those areas with one of the reasons being their relatively low numbers. However, there definitely are communists in most of the Middle East including Lebanon, Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, etc.


there&#39;s very little talk or leftist activity in that region of the world... (AND NO ANTI-AMERICA RADICAL ISLAMIST IS NOT REVOLUTIONARY) anyways. why do you guys think this is?
There&#39;s always been a greater focus towards Europe, North America, and South America over Africa and Asia by the general communist movement.

[Devrim]

Little media focus on communists in those areas with one of the reasons being their relatively low numbers. However, there definitely are communists in most of the Middle East including Lebanon, Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, etc.

I am not sure that this is true. I have lived, and worked in different countries in both Europe, and the Middle East, and from my observations we in Turkey certainly have a more visable &#39;left&#39; than the UK for example.

Devrim

[( R )evolution]

I know Turkey has a very strong leftist movement. Maybe not as strong in early decades but it is still very strong.

[Janus]

I am not sure that this is true. I have lived, and worked in different countries in both Europe, and the Middle East, and from my observations we in Turkey certainly have a more visable &#39;left&#39; than the UK for example.
Turkey is definitely an exception in terms of its secular, political structure as well as its European/Western influence.