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RedCeltic
11th March 2007, 15:53
Kilts, fascism and the Irish

Yesterday, I had attended a Saint Patricks Day parade and saw a disturbing scene. While walking along the sidewalk, searching for a good spot to film the parade I saw across the street from a distance some guy wearing a kilt, combat boots, and a white nationalist t shirt! I was quite offended by it and probably would have said something if I had been any closer and he hadnt disappeared shortly after I saw him.

It is interesting because just earlier a friend of mine had commented on how he thought that all the militarism in the parade, veterans, soldiers, sailors, etc was a sort of slap in the face of the Irish by endorsing US Imperialism and marching under the Irish Tricolor at the same time.

I had also seen over the years, much appropriation of Celtic and Norse symbols and cultural events such as the Scottish Games on online communities orientated to White Nationalists. While I had always found it offensive to connect Celtic culture and ancient pagan symbols to racism on the internet, somehow it pails in comparison to seeing such a disgusting display of culture theft in person.

I say Cultural Theft because somehow to me White Nationalism and Celtic heritage are incompatible. Especially if you look at the history. Only as recently as the Victorian era, while coming to New York, Boston, etc in droves, the Irish hadnt been considered as even being part of the White race by the Know-nothings and other racist ilk. They are also identifying with the KKK, which had always maintained as much hate for Catholics as they did for blacks and Jews.

I realize that such events such as small Saint Patricks day parades are considered to be more cultural events for all Irish or want to be Irish kin to the Scottish Games, and unlike the New York City parade in which the AOH had declared officially a Catholic Religious event which was merely to support their hypocrisy of keeping the GLBT groups from participating.

I was wondering what peoples thought are on this. Is Racism now an Irish/Celtic value? Or is it now an Irish-American value? And will there be a day when wearing a kilt would be kin to wearing jackboots and a swastika? Or am I just overreacting?

NewDawnForAll
16th March 2007, 00:04
Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 02:53 pm

I say Cultural Theft because somehow to me White Nationalism and Celtic heritage are incompatible. Especially if you look at the history. Only as recently as the Victorian era, while coming to New York, Boston, etc in droves, the Irish hadnt been considered as even being part of the White race by the Know-nothings and other racist ilk. They are also identifying with the KKK, which had always maintained as much hate for Catholics as they did for blacks and Jews.

I was wondering what peoples thought are on this. Is Racism now an Irish/Celtic value? Or is it now an Irish-American value? And will there be a day when wearing a kilt would be kin to wearing jackboots and a swastika? Or am I just overreacting?
[COLOR=blue]I'm sure the Irish are enjoying their achievements right now. The latest data shows a per capita income for the Irish much higher than that of the English. (42,000 USD a year compared to 35000 USD) I am estimating from memory, but no one can deny that the Irish have earned their success. Not to put down the English, because they have had their time in the sun as well.[COLOR=blue]

bloodygolfclubs
16th March 2007, 00:12
kilt, combat boots, and a white nationalist t shirt

I must admit that that is a somewhat appalling combination. Though your heritage and what you have become today often times do not match up.

RASHskins
22nd March 2007, 06:19
Yea ive been thinking about this too how white nationalists have raped all those celtic pagan symbols and using their heritage for racism. I think it's cause if you look on stormfront every second picture looks like something outa lord of the rings or world of warcraft. They are obsessed with warriors like that. So maybe thats how they use norse mythology and make scottish and irish heritage racist.

CodeAires
22nd March 2007, 19:02
Celtic "white supremacists" are so fucking lost it's pathetic. They aren't of the same historical backgroud and are persecuting their own kind. It's like many Irish-Americans here in the south who are in the KKK. Ignorance is not always bliss.

Severian
25th March 2007, 02:36
Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 08:53 am
say Cultural Theft because somehow to me White Nationalism and Celtic heritage are incompatible. Especially if you look at the history. Only as recently as the Victorian era, while coming to New York, Boston, etc in droves, the Irish hadnt been considered as even being part of the White race by the Know-nothings and other racist ilk. They are also identifying with the KKK, which had always maintained as much hate for Catholics as they did for blacks and Jews.
In part because of the Irish, Scots, and Scots-Irish Protestant background of a lot of KKKers. (Also just anti-immigrant sentiment at a time when many immigrants were Irish, Italian, or other Catholics.)

Additionally, there's a whole history of Irish anti-Black racism in this country: read up on the Boston school desegregation fight or read "How the Irish Became White" by Noel Ignatieff. Or consider how the Civil War NYC anti-draft riots were among other things an anti-Black pogrom.

This was all precisely because Irish immigrants were on the next-to-lowest rung of the ladder, competing with Black people for jobs.

So I don't think that Irish or other Celtic nationalist sentiment in the U.S. has ever been especially correlated with a progressive attitude in U.S. politics.

***

But all in all I think the main reason why white nationalists are going in for Celtic and other specific ethnic nationalisms - is just to cover their real nature.

They want to claim they're not anti-Black, or anti-anyone - just pro-white pride, pro-their own ethnic heritage. It gets easier to cover this if they focus on a specific kind of cultural past.