I'm confused

[RGacky3]

I've been told by some that its a class system ruled by a dictator and is basically fashism. I've also been told that, stalinism is the same as all other types of communism only with a riged authoritarian government. I'm leaning toward beleiving the second explanation becouse thats what the stalinists tell me. but none the less please explain.

[Xvall]

Yes.

[Michael De Panama]

No.

[Xvall]

Here. I will give you advice, but not personally. Someone wrote about this subject in a song. Here, you should try to download the song if you can - Here are the lyrics.

Flew in from Miami Beach BOAC
Didn't get to bed last night
On the way the paper bag was on my knee
Man I had a dreadful flight
I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boy
Back in the U.S.S.R.

Been away so long I hardly knew the place
Gee it's good to be back home
Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case
Honey disconnect the phone
I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boy
Back in the U.S.S.R.

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the West behind
And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
That Georgia's always on my mind.

I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boys
Back in the U.S.S.R.

Show me round your snow peaked mountains way down south
Take me to your daddy's farm
Let me hear your balalaika's ringing out
Come and keep your comrade warm.
I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boys
Back in the U.S.S.R.


(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 10:01 pm on July 9, 2002)

[guerrillaradio]

Dunno.

[Michael De Panama]

Well then fuck you, GuerrillaRadio. Do you wanna go?

[peaccenicked]

Stalinism is complex, it is the form of counter revolution
that defeated and betrayed the Russian revolution. There has been more written on the USSR by the left that any other subject. Some argue it was a class system, some a bureaucratic layer but most of the left, if we discount apologists for Stalinism as being left-wing that it was a brutal regime akin to fascism and in some degrees worse than Hitlerism. In Glasgow, where I live
Hillell Ticktin is a lecturer at the uni, his views challenge previous conceptions.
http://www.hrc.wmin.ac.uk/guest/radical/RC-USSR.HTM

[guerrillaradio]

fuck u miahecl de pamanana i rip yo ass out and trhow it to ym cumrads in maiami yo waek mahn i srtong stalen was good cos he did shit like kil poeple i like deeth cos its comunissm n sutff im gonan bring yall revulotoin from maima and kill all the us cos i haet them all capis are dubm i am intelilgetn

[Xvall]

Flowers are Pretty.. Eat them..

(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 10:17 pm on July 9, 2002)

[Michael De Panama]

state your source, Gurella radio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Abolishin of privaite property is communism i believ this and so wat am I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im taking a college course in communism, you fucking stuipd fuckign idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahaha you probably get ur ass kicked every day by tuff guys like me it makes me laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes!!!!!!!!! MOTHER FUCKER111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!stalinism is communism cuz of private proeperty in the manifesto i stated my sourse, now wheres YOURS?!!!!!!!!!!! you got none, isn't that right? WHY DON'T YOU GO TO A GAY STRIP NAKED WIGGLE CLUB!!??

ahahahahahahahaha i know so much more than you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

(Edited by Michael De Panama at 10:30 pm on July 9, 2002)


(Edited by Michael De Panama at 10:31 pm on July 9, 2002)

[Xvall]

c0mrades calm down we should work 2gether not be fiting each other liek animals. we are all comards including the stalinists wether we like it or not vuz we need to work together. everyone just relax and be cool!!!1

P.S we should revive lienin and mao cuz theyre preserved!

[guerrillaradio]

fuck you mihclea i set my fuckin army on u were gonan satrt comuniszm and u cant do neting buot it peplle liek u desevre ot hvae a fuckin ditty bmob i tihkn thta osaam is ym freidn cos he wanna kill ameirca jus lkie me seriuoulsy mcihela im goana fukcnig kili u ocne my reovluiton has hapened u fucking pussy i beat yo qss if u eevr come dwon ot maiama

[Xvall]

guyz calm down i told you that u should not be fighting each other!!!22 u know better than this comrades we need to work together in peace!

[guerrillaradio]

fuck you darke3 i don wan no fuckin paece i wanna see ded bodyes evrywere liek in the moveis xcetp i want them all to b ameiracn i haet amierac nad aemricans epsciealy ones in maiam wear i live i beet yo wsss wtih my comonusm commraeds draek lil btich

[Michael De Panama]

Your just jealus!!!!!!!!!!! cuz i know more About communist than YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 we are the reel communists Because we wan't abolishin of propearty!!!!!!!!!!! Vlamdyr Lenin calld me an the phone the other day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and he told me That Gueraile Raido is a big dumb fat gaybo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and if you didnt know, Lenin was the guy who CREATED COMMUNISM, you GEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you dont know anything becuz your STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahahahaha ahahahsdhfgahghahhahaeuhuehuehueheu!!!!!!!! but dont worry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, i'll be sure to pound your face in if i see you aruodn!!!!!!!!!!! I gave you my source I sad that it was in the communist manifesto now you cant because you pull things out of your ass!!!!!!!!!!!! LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STALIN WAS COMMUNIST BECAUSE OF ABOLISIHHN OF PROPETRY STATE YOUR SOURCE MUTHA FUCKAAAA!!!!!!!! why should i listen to yoiu when your the Idiot? hahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Edited by Michael De Panama at 10:53 pm on July 9, 2002)

[Xvall]

plz d00d u shouldn't insult me cuz im probably older than u and u no that u should respect ur elders!!!!! besides that u no nothing about good bands like I do by the way does ne1 no of any bands that are cool other than my band cuz my band rox!

[Michael De Panama]

hahahahahaha!! THE TIDES HAVVE TURNED NOW!!!!!!!!!!! I found this speech by a hardcore commie named Ronalld Reagan who says that communism is the evil empire!!!!!!!!!!! SEE?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111 Communism's supposed to be EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! haahhahahahahahahhaha!!! YOU STUPID IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Xvall]

dude r u serious1!!!!11 cuz i did not no that ronals ragen was a comrade of ares cuz everyone on the bord seems to hate him so much! i never had much problem with the guy cuz he just makes those mcdonals commercials and has the big red hare right?

[guerrillaradio]

yeah man regens a commie hes col fuck u rdake waht the fukc do u no buot comunism if u lsitne to music then u ain no fuckni comime ur a fcuikgn caip only cpais litsne ot msuic i gte my comreads in maiam to baet yo qas if u eevr coem down heeer

[Xvall]

dudew garila radi0 u dont have 2 be meen to me cuz im just anyother 1 of ur friends i dont C Y we alwayz have 2 B fiting wit each other we can all work together and make the world a peaceful place besides:

HIPPIE - I LOVE EVERYONE
INSDUSTRIAL - I AM EVIL

u dont get it itz a personal joake!

[Michael De Panama]

state your source!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

FUCK YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YURI KNEW SO MUCH MORE THAN YOU!!!!!!!! Don't be a hater becuz your dumb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you can take yor communizm to the wiggle my willy factory while i Go spread the revolution becuz i know more than u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111 look at what i found in Capital vol.3: "i...hate...g...u...e...ri...lla...rad...io...he is a...big...hom...o...and...i...hate...hom...os" BY MARX!!!!!!!!!!!!! *****!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i pick up *****es on da weekends unlike you1!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CHE WOULD HAVE POPPED U IN THE FACE IF HE SAW YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

long live STALIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Michael De Panama]

oh yeaah, if you didn't kno who Marx is (loser), he's the guy who invented all formes of economy!!!!!!!!!!!!! STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Xvall]

d00d i will say it 1ce m0r3 u need a flower or sumthin cuz ur just acitng out of line, maybe if you listened 2 sum hippie musik u would get into the groove, not need to be a h8er!1

[guerrillaradio]

fuck you maxr dident rite books he was to bizy doing comiunst reovluiton in cuba he did invnet all types of ecomony tho aaprt rfom cpaitalism wich aint an ecnoomy its fukcni ded i wish oasma has bolwn pu all us not kust new yrk so all aemriacns cud ve dyd not jsut the evli caips in werd trad cneter

[Xvall]

k u guys letz just smoke some kronik and make peace and stuff cuz one day were gonna forget any ofthis happened, just keep cool comrades!!1 Peeace out

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 10:39 pm on July 9, 2002
c0mrades calm down we should work 2gether not be fiting each other liek animals. we are all comards including the stalinists wether we like it or not vuz we need to work together. everyone just relax and be cool!!!1

P.S we should revive lienin and mao cuz theyre preserved!


EXACTLY, this is what I've been supporting, unity with all communists, all alike. Perhaps now I have an ally in my goal :).

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 10:16 pm on July 9, 2002
Flowers are Pretty.. Eat them..

(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 10:17 pm on July 9, 2002)


I see your a fan of MITRS as well, :) . "I found jesus, he was behind the couch all the time"

[Xvall]

UH, we're all just kidding Gacky.. Don't take what we're saying too seriously. You ARE aware that our grammar isn't THAT bad aren't you? Were were all just joking around!

[RGacky3]

you know what fuck communism and socialism why dont' we all just toke up and be happy.

[RGacky3]

just to make things clear to any idiot that did'nt allready know, I was joking

[Xvall]

lol.. We know Gacky..

[Xvall]

lol.. We know Gacky..

[Mazdak]

I spent all of last night looking up Ronald reagan and came to this conclusion-

YOu are all fulla shit!! Reagan wasn't communist, he called the USSR the evil empire becasue he was against communism. And Stalin never said anything bad about reagan. S0 why dont we put aside are differences and love one another right now.

And, what ever happened to learnign about stalinism here?

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 5:00 pm on July 9, 2002
Here. I will give you advice, but not personally. Someone wrote about this subject in a song. Here, you should try to download the song if you can - Here are the lyrics.

Flew in from Miami Beach BOAC
Didn't get to bed last night
On the way the paper bag was on my knee
Man I had a dreadful flight
I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boy
Back in the U.S.S.R.

Been away so long I hardly knew the place
Gee it's good to be back home
Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case
Honey disconnect the phone
I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boy
Back in the U.S.S.R.

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the West behind
And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
That Georgia's always on my mind.

I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boys
Back in the U.S.S.R.

Show me round your snow peaked mountains way down south
Take me to your daddy's farm
Let me hear your balalaika's ringing out
Come and keep your comrade warm.
I'm back in the U.S.S.R.
You don't know how lucky you are boys
Back in the U.S.S.R.


(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 10:01 pm on July 9, 2002)
how dere u kwote the beetles they were cappies jus like elvis and hiter . . . che hates u. so do jon, pol, jorj and da other guy. i can kik the shit otta elvis.

But seriously, that's a wonderful song. Their Beach Boys imitation is brilliant. I love them.

Lindsay

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:25 am on July 10, 2002
I spent all of last night looking up Ronald reagan and came to this conclusion-

YOu are all fulla shit!! Reagan wasn't communist, he called the USSR the evil empire becasue he was against communism.

regen was the bigist comie fukc u mzakd

I knew someone wouldn't get the joke...

[guerrillaradio]

You wanna learn about Stalinism?? I'll tell you a joke.

What's the difference between a Stalinist and a Nazi??
A Stalinist has a bigger moustache.

[Michael De Panama]

I think we answered your question. THAT'S what a Stalinist is.

Mazdak, Stalin never said anything bad about Reagan because Reagan was only like 40 when Stalin was in power, and wasn't the president until the 1980's, well after the death of Stalin. Did you really spend all night to figure out that he isn't a commie? I find that greatly amusing.

[Xvall]

Mazdak we were kidding around! Of course Raegan wasn't a communist! We were making fun of board members who have been jerks..

[Mazdak]

lol!! i had u goign there. Sure i look up reagan, but i knew he was an asshole the whole time. haha. I am noit that stupid!!!

And Nazis sometimes have mustaches. Himmler did! and so did hitler. So what if stalinists have bigger mustaches?? that isnt political anyhow!!

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:31 am on July 12, 2002
And Nazis sometimes have mustaches. Himmler did! and so did hitler. So what if stalinists have bigger mustaches?? that isnt political anyhow!!

Jesus...did you have a lobotomy or something?? I can't work out how you could be gormless...nevermind, I guess you've kinda proved Mikey's point about Stalinists.

[RGacky3]

Look can I have a semi detailed description of stalinism by a stalinist, I know you liberals hate stalinism, and think its fashism, I just wan't to know exactly what it is, from a stalinist.

[RGacky3]

Look can I have a semi detailed description of stalinism by a stalinist, I know you liberals hate stalinism, and think its fashism, I just wan't to know exactly what it is, from a stalinist.

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 9:32 pm on July 9, 2002
I've been told by some that its a class system ruled by a dictator and is basically fashism. I've also been told that, stalinism is the same as all other types of communism only with a riged authoritarian government. I'm leaning toward beleiving the second explanation becouse thats what the stalinists tell me. but none the less please explain.

There's no real difference in these two explanations except for the wording. The Stalinist just puts more color into his explanation by saying it's "just like all other forms of communism, only authoritarian". This is a pretty accurate description, except for the fact that authoritarianism completely contradicts communist ideology. The basis of communism is equality. A classless society. If there is an authoritarian structure, there is a class system between the ruled and the ruler, similar to any class division between the oppressed and the oppressor, the host and the parasite, the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

The Stalinist does not wish to eliminate the bourgeoisie, he wants to become the bourgeoisie.

If all economy is centralized in the communist fashion, and this is combined with a distinct division of classes, this is identicle to fascism. The state controls EVERYTHING!

[Mazdak]

hey, guerillaradio, i was just joking. You cant possibly think i am that stupid once again.

[komsomol]

Its funny how peoples spelling gets REALLY shitty when they are angry.

[RGacky3]

Panama I see your point, now I want to hear the stalinists response.

[Michael De Panama]

Well, it looks like all the Stalinists are gone finally. Except for StalinSoldiers, who doesn't really know what he's talking about. I hope StalinSoldiers never leaves.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Mazdak on 4:20 am on July 15, 2002
hey, guerillaradio, i was just joking. You cant possibly think i am that stupid once again.


*snorts* Er yeah, I could...

[Mazdak]

I have the feeling that i am universally being mocked....

[Michael De Panama]

Now where would you come up with something crazy like that? ;)

[andresG]

You guys would not believe how confused I was. A perfect imitation of StalinSoldier.

[Mazdak]

I personally support many of his ideas. still. I talked to him and realized how similar my ideas were to his(except for a few minor disagreements). StalinSoldier isnt at all stupid in my opinion.

[maoist3]

RGacky3: don't get frustrated! That's what fascists want. They want you to get frustrated by the discussion so you reach for something stupid like "Kill all the Jews!"

We Maoists are pro-Stalin. Let me answer your question, by asking you some.

What do YOU think is important?
1. Are you hearing that Stalin is fascist because he
named too many people criminals and had them
imprisoned or shot? Is that your standard?

2. Or are you afraid that fascism should apply only
to genocidal movements?

3. Are stupid Trotskyists and humanists like Tucker saying he is fascist because
of his idea of "socialism in one country"?

Here is how we define fascism by quoting from the Stalinists of the 1930s:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?E27633071

If you go by imprisonment, do you want to
establish a cut-off beyond which a country imprisons
too many people and is therefore fascist?
http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/freecoun.html

Or is it that you don't care if people waste their lives
in really long sentences in prison, but you care about
executions? How many executions before you
say a country is fascist? Here you have a good chance
of naming Stalin fascist if you define fascism as a lot
of executions. But I would point out that Stalin's executions cleared the way to double the life expectancy of the Soviet people--COUNTING the
executions.

Are you afraid that anyone nationalist is "fascist"?
Then many, many people are fascist, but Stalin's
"socialism in one country" idea led to socialism in
more than one country while Trotsky's ideas did not.

We at MIM believe that fascism is a product of imperialism and cannot apply to a socialist country.
That's why contrary to what Liberals say, fascism is coming back, especially in Europe right now--
because we still have imperialism, something the Liberals never helped us get rid of.

The capitalists have an incentive to crackdown on
workers when there is a profit crisis. Stalin's incentive
to crackdown on workers was to prepare for the Hitler
invasion.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from andresG on 3:16 am on July 27, 2002
You guys would not believe how confused I was. A perfect imitation of StalinSoldier.


Why thank you...

[Mazdak]

Keep it up maoist. I dont care if they call it spamming, it is pro stalin spamming

pro stalin spamming= not spamming, enlightening

[boadicea88]

ROTFLMFAO!! The first 3-4 pages of this thread were... awesome. Hahaha.

[peaccenicked]

fleas upon fleas ad infinitum.

[Michael De Panama]

I think I'll answer your little questions there, Maoist fuck, even though they weren't directed specifically to me.

1. Are you hearing that Stalin is fascist because he
named too many people criminals and had them
imprisoned or shot? Is that your standard?

What kind of nonsense is that? That's not being a fascist, that's being a murdering lunatic. There are much better reasons why Stalin is a fascist. Hell, I don't see how it's not just plain obvious. Do you want to know my standards for what a fascist is? Here's my standards:

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/...ks/fascism.htm/ (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mussolini/works/fascism.htm/)

I'm sure Benito Mussolini's definition is quite accurate. The only difference I see between fascism and Stalinism is just that fascism is bourgeois and Stalinism is proletarian. In Mao's case, this cannot be said, because Mao was bourgeois.

Once you go off and recreate a bourgeoisie within the government like Stalin did, and then assume absolute power, this becomes fascism. Nothing with as wide of class gaps and as significant of class antagonism as the USSR had during Stalin's reign of terror could constitute as anything BUT fascism. Proletarian fascism. Red fascism. Or Stalinism, as you wish to call it.

Stalin's actions while assuming his fascist power are not what makes him a fascist, jackass. It's the way his regime itself is run, which is no different from fascism.

2. Or are you afraid that fascism should apply only
to genocidal movements?

What kind of genocidal movements? Like Stalin killing the Jews off?

3. Are stupid Trotskyists and humanists like Tucker saying he is fascist because
of his idea of "socialism in one country"?

Yeah, that's what they're saying. That's what I'm saying too. After all, nationalist socialism is what the Nazi party is founded on.

Or is it that you don't care if people waste their lives
in really long sentences in prison, but you care about
executions?

Why would I "not care" that millions of innocent people would be wrongly punished, even if the punishment isn't the executions that Stalin made? I would care in any case if some paranoid lunatic who assumed absolute power came and took people out of their homes with no real substantial reasoning other than paranoid suspicions of treason or whatever.

How many executions before you
say a country is fascist?

Again, fascism isn't about the number of executions you make, it's about the political regime itself.

Here you have a good chance
of naming Stalin fascist if you define fascism as a lot
of executions.

Yeah. Too bad NOBODY defined fascism as simply "a lot of executions".

But I would point out that Stalin's executions cleared the way to double the life expectancy of the Soviet people--COUNTING the
executions.

Hahaha. It depends which Soviet people we're talking about, of course. You certainly would live a lot longer than me, for the simple fact that you'd be the one licking Stalin's crotch.

Are you afraid that anyone nationalist is "fascist"?
Then many, many people are fascist, but Stalin's
"socialism in one country" idea led to socialism in
more than one country while Trotsky's ideas did not.

What the crap are you talking about? Trotsky's whole deal was the "world proletarian revolution". Read a fucking book, smarty.

We at MIM believe that fascism is a product of imperialism and cannot apply to a socialist country.

Unless this "socialist" country happens to be as imperialistic as Stalinist Russia was, of course. Yes, that's right, I called a socialist country imperialist. The National Socialists were also imperialist.

The capitalists have an incentive to crackdown on
workers when there is a profit crisis. Stalin's incentive
to crackdown on workers was to prepare for the Hitler
invasion.

So you understand that Stalin is really no better than the bourgeois capitalists? Great comparison. You proved my point, fascist.

Seriously, all these Stalinists have been creeping in the second I turn my back, haven't they? Sneaky little fucks.

[maoist3]

Quote: from Michael De Panama on 10:46 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
2. Or are you afraid that fascism should apply only
to genocidal movements?

What kind of genocidal movements? Like Stalin killing the Jews off?


maoist3 replies: Evidence?

Try what Stalin actually said:
http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/classics...talinonjews.txt (http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/classics/text.php?mimfile=Stalinonjews.txt)

[Michael De Panama]

Is that really all you got? What a way to defend the Multiple Insane Maoists or whatever that little organization of yours is called. I guess I really shouldn't be surprised. Well, at least now I'm sure you'll quit *****ing about being called a fascist, seeing as in actuallity you are closer to the level of a fascist than a communist. Great job, fascist.