God is a safetly blanket

[R_P_A_S]

The other night an ex girlfriend of mine were on the phone talking about politics. she is not the type that enjoys this sort of conversation. but surprisingly she was asking questions about Socialism.
I guess she just had to since I always talk about it or make references to it.

After an hour or so she took a like in the idea. and wanted to know more about this socialist society and how it would function. the more i explained the more she was interested and curious. Her questions eventually led to religion and god.

"would religion be banned"
"can people worship god still"

I told her this stuff would most likely not be banned, or illegal. but that most people will see that is no longer necessary and slowly it will dissolved. (and went into other detail but that would take to long to explain)

She told me she believes in God, and that she is going to heaven. I asked her why she believes in god? and she didn't have any logical explanation. I challenged her really good I asked her things such as.

How can you believe in something you never seen?
There's no proof that god exist. (we talked about coincidences vs faith)

she could never give me a logical, reasonable answer, obviously. It was just her repeating her self "i believe in god, because... i feel him, he guides me, there's just something good for me when i die and I know he is going to give me the answers i been looking for, etc. etc.

Among all things we talked about history of humans and civilization. How hundreds of years ago people believed more in religion and god because they couldn't figure out certain things. there was no answers to things we have answers to now. So they made shit up. and slowly humans are starting to believe in scientific proven facts as opposed to believing ignorant shit that was pumped in peoples brains in the age of faith and before. etc.

However the idea of GOD has remain.

we might not believe that a comet in the sky is a sign of god being angry!

or that people with tourette's syndrome ARE possessed by the devil.

BECAUSE as the human race progresses and develops we have scientific explanations for all these things.

The more and more examples I gave her the more she stuck to her answer. BUT she actually gave up and said.. "i just want to believe in something ok?

Then I asked her. "Ok so basically you personally would feel empty and without a purpose if you don't believe in something that you can't touch or see?"

she said. "well i just want to believe that there's someone out there that will lead me to the answers of life and that he has a better place for me, somewhere.. and I want to go to heaven and live happy"


So even though you acknowledge that lots of things and stories, passages from the Bible and religious beliefs can now be thrown out the window because we have logical explanations for them, yet you still want to believe this god who "taught this to his children" exist?
You refuse to believe that there were dishonest, opportunistic people back then who took advantage of others by making all this shit up? the fear of hell, faith, god words?

"I don't know, I just want to believe"

I say: "so you admit religion is fucked up and it's slowly becoming obsolete as man evolves and we find answers to things and become socially conscious?

"well, yes no particular religion is right. Only god is. man have screwed up and misuse his word and gospel. god should not be blame for the mistakes committed by man on his name"

"but religion is a product of our society... man live in this society and they created religion. this religion was were god came from... so man didn't invented god?

"i don't know, I just want to believe ok?"



---------

i think i did a decent job! I mean how can you "still believe" AFTER SO MUCH LOGIC, AND BULLET PROOF EVIDENCE has been thrown at you?
hopeless.. :(

[ichneumon]

why does it matter to you? she's happy, she wants to support socialism, and now she won't. what did it accomplish? are you angry that she's happy? do you want to hurt her?

she's well adjusted. you're a goober.

this is actually a beautiful example of the failings of classical marxism. she has *personal* religion, not organized. it's not a social function. it's psychological. and you just can't let it go. you absolutely have to shove your beliefs down everyone's throats? did you expect a medal for this?

WHY do you want her to be an atheist? honestly, why? how are you different from any other zealot with a mission?

[luxemburg89]

Percy Shelley's 'the necessity of Athiesm' poses some questions about religion that will really stump religious people. Marx also strongly believed that Shelley would have been a real revolutionary and a socialist - but his life was tragically cut short, awesome poet though.
However i believe the important question is not whether he exists or not, but whether worshipping god is of any benefit to society.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 09:35 pm
why does it matter to you? she's happy, she wants to support socialism, and now she won't. what did it accomplish? are you angry that she's happy? do you want to hurt her?

she's well adjusted. you're a goober.
nah hell nah. im not angry calm the fuck down. damn. I dont hate her and want her to be miserable. I wanted an explanation. what the hell is wrong for asking questions? damn.

it's just strange to me that there's no logical answer to her belief. thats all.

go troll elsewhere.. damn! :blink:

[Bright Banana Beard]

If just that we can believe without evidence, then we can, but NOBODY knows what really happen outside of the physical world except to believe because we can. We burp because of logical reason? no u just want to do and to enjoy it. religious answers outside the question of objective reality(we don't know the truth yet, but we can believe), and yet man experimented with it in daily life. I simple just believe that material is the real world. There will never be logical explanation that question outside of objective reality.

[MrDoom]

^Mainly because concerning ourselves with what 'is' outside of material reality (the only reality, as far as we are concerned) is pointless nonsense.

And we do burp for a logical reason. It has to do with the stomach.

[Severian]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+March 09, 2007 02:50 pm--> (R_P_A_S @ March 09, 2007 02:50 pm) she said. "well i just want to believe that there's someone out there that will lead me to the answers of life and that he has a better place for me, somewhere.. and I want to go to heaven and live happy"

....

i think i did a decent job! I mean how can you "still believe" AFTER SO MUCH LOGIC, AND BULLET PROOF EVIDENCE has been thrown at you?
hopeless.. :( [/b]
What do you want, a computerized girlfriend? People have emotions. We're not purely rational machines. It's pretty irrational to expect people to behave like machines.

At least she's rational enough to know she's believing it for emotional reasons. A lot of people - including a lot of atheists - believe things for emotional reasons, then invent phony rational-sounding reasons to justify themselves.


ichneumon
this is actually a beautiful example of the failings of classical marxism.

Nope. Marx was perfectly well aware that most people have an emotional need for religion - it's "the sigh of the soul in a soulless world", he said, as well as the opiate - that is, painkiller - of the masses.

Most people will only stop being religious when they no longer need it for emotional survival under a heartless system where nothing matters unless it can be measured in cold cash. That's "classical Marxism" if "classical Marxism" has anything to do with Marx.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 08:18 pm
And we do burp for a logical reason. It has to do with the stomach.
Did you see the Mythbusters episode where they mixed soda and Pop Rocks inside pigs' stomachs? Those stomachs needed to burp, all right.

[RedStarOverChina]

What do you want, a computerized girlfriend? People have emotions. We're not purely rational machines. It's pretty irrational to expect people to behave like machines.

I dont think R_P_A_S did anything wrong.

I have these discussions with my girlfriend too.

"Having emotions" is no reason to act out by being superstitious. Just like having emotions is not a sufficient excuse to turn into a Nazi. It's right to correct people, especially when they haven't gone to the point of no return, even if it "hurts" for a while, it's still the right thing to do.



Nope. Marx was perfectly well aware that most people have an emotional need for religion - it's "the sigh of the soul in a soulless world", he said, as well as the opiate - that is, painkiller - of the masses.

There are a lot of "non-toxic" substitutes for painkiller too---Love, being the most obvious one.

I do think it is a responsibility for a communist to do whatever he/she could to combat superstition. Even if that means you have to be an ass once in a while.

[Zero]

I chat a lot with my best friend about her religious leanings.

With more Liberal theologians it is better to take the spiritual route rather than the Athiestic route. If you've ever read 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins the first chapter describes why he calls himself a "Religious Nonbeliever" and goes into this.

Just make sure not to press people into corners to "justify" or "explain" the non-justifiable or the un-explainable. These personal religions keep people going in a very real sense. Shaking the fundamental grounds of people's belief structure could lead to a very real breakthrough, however it could very well also lead to a mental breakdown with very real side effects.

This is how people base their worldview. If you do want to challange this view, for their sake, do it gently.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 07:56 pm
I chat a lot with my best friend about her religious leanings.

With more Liberal theologians it is better to take the spiritual route rather than the Athiestic route. If you've ever read 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins the first chapter describes why he calls himself a "Religious Nonbeliever" and goes into this.

Just make sure not to press people into corners to "justify" or "explain" the non-justifiable or the un-explainable. These personal religions keep people going in a very real sense. Shaking the fundamental grounds of people's belief structure could lead to a very real breakthrough, however it could very well also lead to a mental breakdown with very real side effects.

This is how people base their worldview. If you do want to challange this view, for their sake, do it gently.
its pretty deep stuff i guess.
I try to look back now at my self. why I used to pray and why Id get on my knees and ask god for answers. why did i do it?

I think is just because so many people did it too, and its all over the place. you just sort of believe its true.