Lula and Bush

[R_P_A_S]

I'm sure most here have heard of George W. Bush being down in South America, promoting alternatives for dependence on Oil. He was in Brazil yesterday and today. and spoke about the issues as Brazilian President Lula joined him.

What do you guys think of this? Hugo Chavez claims this is an other imperialist strategy to divide latin america. and ways for the American government to grip Latin America away from Venezuelan's oil dependence.

Why is Lula all up Bush's ass...again? This guys seem sort of close. and yet he has the never to stand next to Hugo Chavez. doesn't this make him a hypocrite?

thoughts and comments. thank you!??

[UndergroundConnexion]

I agree, but then I think that Lula's thing with Bush is purely economically, while the Lula probably is more agreeing ideawise with Chavez. Also Lula is friends with Fidel. But I do still find it fukd

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Well, it's pretty explicit that he wants to weaken the Mercosul with bilateral agreements and form what North Americans have called a "Pan-Americanism" in order to combat the influence of and contain socialist governments like Cuba and Venezuela through unity among the rest of the continent. Both politically and commercially. I think this idea will fail miserably on both counts.

He also wants to buy Brazilian ethanol whilst maintaining high tariffs. He also wants our "know-how" on ethanol production.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 07:40 pm
I'm sure most here have heard of George W. Bush being down in South America, promoting alternatives for dependence on Oil. He was in Brazil yesterday and today. and spoke about the issues as Brazilian President Lula joined him.

What do you guys think of this? Hugo Chavez claims this is an other imperialist strategy to divide latin america. and ways for the American government to grip Latin America away from Venezuelan's oil dependence.

Why is Lula all up Bush's ass...again? This guys seem sort of close. and yet he has the never to stand next to Hugo Chavez. doesn't this make him a hypocrite?

thoughts and comments. thank you!??

Why is Lula all up Bush's ass...again?

Because Lula wants the US to purchase ethanol and reduce its tariffs on it.

Commentators have been critical of Bush for "neglecting" Latin America, by focusing too much on the Middle East. They blame this for the rise of left leaning leaders, specifically Chavez, but also Morales, Kirchner and Ortega. And the US fears more left leaning politicans will come to power.What these commentators don't seem to realize is that Latin America's move to the left is really a reaction to the failure of neo-liberal market reforms to make any significant improvement in the lives of the average Latin American citizen, not lack of attention from the US.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 08:23 pm
What these commentators don't seem to realize is that Latin America's move to the left is really a reaction to the failure of neo-liberal market reforms to make any significant improvement in the lives of the average Latin American citizen, not lack of attention from the US.
THAT IS a BIG nail in the coffin my friend! well said!

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I think the North Americans realize that and believe that more "attention" given to Latin America can influence us to stick more to neoliberalism and stray away from socialism. Example: recently, American companies have begun to invest more capital in Brazil, the risk of investment in Brazil has decreased, Bush has offered us a hospital boat and help for Brazilian workers to advance through the free market. He announced to the impoverished workers of South America that they have an ally in Washington.

This is the kind of attention that they think will counter the leftist rhetoric of Chavez and Castro. They don't understand the radical differences in political culture between the United States and Latin America. He will never "win over" the Brazilian public. The Brazilian politicians, on the other hand, he can surely win over quite easily with ethanol deals. But let's see what's gonna go down before making more predictions.

[molecular transmutation]

I still yet to understand why Bush will not support other means of energy... he is too closely tied to too many big oil companies! He uses to much personal interest over logical decisions, therefore he one of THE shittiest presidents thus far. Germany has Hydrogen powered engines in all public transit buses in Berlin and two other major cities. Since Reagon, government support of altenate energies have declined substantually! Even with all the evidence of global warming Bush still has not done a thing to help. Since this country likes to act as big and mighty as they wish, why encourage alternate energies!

AND, frankly, i do think this country is an IMPERIALIST one!!

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by molecular [email protected] 10, 2007 12:41 am


AND, frankly, i do think this country is an IMPERIALIST one!!
hi..welcome to the forum.. and why dont you think this?

[Janus]

With all the strong anti-American and anti-Bush sentiments running through Latin America, I had hoped that Bush's visit would turn out like Nixon's 1958 "Goodwill tour". :D

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 04:13 am
With all the strong anti-American and anti-Bush sentiments running through Latin America, I had hoped that Bush's visit would turn out like Nixon's 1958 "Goodwill tour". :D
what happened?

[Janus]

Nixon was faced with protests and had his car stoned while in Caracas, Venezuela. He ended up having to shorten his tour.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 05:36 am
Nixon was faced with protests and had his car stoned while in Caracas, Venezuela. He ended up having to shorten his tour.
LOL.. is there pics of this?

[Janus]

Yes.
Nixon "Good will" tour pics (http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/nixon.htm)

[R_P_A_S]

damn.. what do you guys think would happened if the FARC kills Bush in Colombia???????????????

[ComradeR]

With all the strong anti-American and anti-Bush sentiments running through Latin America, I had hoped that Bush's visit would turn out like Nixon's 1958 "Goodwill tour".
Bush greeted by clashes in Brazil (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6430951.stm)


In Sao Paulo, about 10,000 people spilled out along one of the city's broadest avenues, in the heart of the financial district, banging drums, waving red flags and carrying banners reading "Bush Go Home".
:D

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 06:44 am
damn.. what do you guys think would happened if the FARC kills Bush in Colombia???????????????
Well there would be a very nasty backlash against us leftists here.

[Kamraten]

I agree with what everone is saying, though i just wanna point out. dont speak about bush as a man calling the shots , this is not true. He does not know shit, he does what he is told. A puppet in strings, the people controlling him is ofcourse his father and their money connections, the people that funds his rally campaigns the oil companys and so forth.

After six years in the whitehouse George W Bush have just started to figure out how to use the pencil sharpener in his office..

I saw a documentary yesterday of how USA trained and funded most of the millitary dictatorships that has risen in Latin america, and about the massmurders in panama/nicaragua. US presidents should be banned to enter central/south america 4-ever, nothing good will ever come in their footsteps. Psychopaths..

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 10:00 am
I agree with what everone is saying, though i just wanna point out. dont speak about bush as a man calling the shots , this is not true. He does not know shit, he does what he is told. A puppet in strings, the people controlling him is ofcourse his father and their money connections, the people that funds his rally campaigns the oil companys and so forth.

After six years in the whitehouse George W Bush have just started to figure out how to use the pencil sharpener in his office..

I saw a documentary yesterday of how USA trained and funded most of the millitary dictatorships that has risen in Latin america, and about the massmurders in panama/nicaragua. US presidents should be banned to enter central/south america 4-ever, nothing good will ever come in their footsteps. Psychopaths..
what documentary is this??

[Tekun]

Good to see all the protests out there
Though typical of the bourgeois media: they're painting the protests as anti-American, when they're really anti-Bush
Lula is typica Lula, he needs that US funding to keep his country more or less "running," and the ethanol is a perfect way to get the Americans to deal
Yet, he's also an ideological ally of Latin America's leftist leaders
He's on the fence, in order to benefit from Chavez's oil and Bush's foreing investment
(So are others....)
I found this quote to be one of the funniest things I ever read, see if u agree:

“I don’t think America gets enough credit for trying to help improve people’s lives,” Bush said at a joint news conference with Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva. “My trip is to explain as clearly as I can that our nation is generous and compassionate.”
Awwww, boo-hoo!! :lol:


Next up for Bush, Uruguay
Where for interesting reasons, doesn't and won't have the same protests as in Brazil,....according to this unnamed publication I was reading

Then Colombia and that parrot Uribe
Where Uribe has been able to vilify the FARC throughout the population
Last I heard, the Colombian military has accused the FARC of orchestrating an attack during Bush's visit, what a surprise! They're always blaming and accusing the FARC for everything
There's a holdup in Bogota, its the FARC
THere's a murder in the countryside, its the FARC
A man has a heart attack, the FARC made him have a heart attack
Therez an eclipse, its the FARC that's responsible
:rolleyes: :lol:

Then on to Guatemala and Mexico
Where Im sure he'll get a warm greeting from the ppl, and two heads up his ass: Berger and Calderon's to be precise

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 10:11 am
Good to see all the protests out there
Though typical of the bourgeois media: they're painting the protests as anti-American, when they're really anti-Bush

We did burn a couple of American flags.


Lula is typica Lula, he needs that US funding to keep his country more or less "running," and the ethanol is a perfect way to get the Americans to deal
Yet, he's also an ideological ally of Latin America's leftist leaders
He's on the fence, in order to benefit from Chavez's oil and Bush's foreing investment
(So are others....)

This notion is a little outdated.
It's believed that he kind of stepped down from the fence onto Bush's side yesterday. Comments about how North American protectionism is nefarious and whatever don't really mean much when he signs agreements with Bush without any hesitation. If he wants lowered tariffs, the obvious course of action would be to not sign any agreements until the tariffs are lowered. But no. He's a fucking puppet.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Thursday's demonstration and clash w/ pigs
http://prod.brasil.indymedia.org/media/2007/03//375135.mp4
http://chiapas.indymedia.org/local/webcast...i_bush_sp_2.mp4 (http://chiapas.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/anti_bush_sp_2.mp4)
http://chiapas.indymedia.org/local/webcast...nti_bush_sp.mp4 (http://chiapas.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/anti_bush_sp.mp4)
http://chiapas.indymedia.org/local/webcast...i_bush_sp_3.mp4 (http://chiapas.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/anti_bush_sp_3.mp4)
pictures:
http://www.midiaindependente.org/pt/blue/2...03/375065.shtml (http://www.midiaindependente.org/pt/blue/2007/03/375065.shtml)

[Guerrilla22]

Bush is just visiting countries who already have pro US governments. I'm not sure why he's visiting Urugay, Colombia, Guatemala and Mexico. The governments there are already loyal.

[Cheung Mo]

I think any attempt at painting Lula as an ally is delusional: My local bourgeois rag carried an article stating that Brazilian police fired tear gas at and clubbed 6,000 peaceful protestors (presumably under the order of civilian superiors within the Brazilian government). If the people of Venezuela were to demonstrate en masse against Bush, I suspect that the only purpose of the police would be to liquidate any far-right paramilitaries who attempt to interfere with these demonstrations.

[ComradeR]

Next up for Bush, Uruguay
Where for interesting reasons, doesn't and won't have the same protests as in Brazil,....according to this unnamed publication I was reading
This article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6438753.stm) isn't specifically about bush's trip to Uruguay, but it does mention this.

About 20 people were arrested in the Uruguayan capital Montevideo on Friday after an estimated 6,000 people took to the streets.

On Saturday, Mr Bush avoided the crowds by meeting the president at his rural retreat some 125miles (200km) west of the capital.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

With all the strong anti-American and anti-Bush sentiments running through Latin America

How can people from [South] America be Anti-American? Surely only people against the [South, Central and North] American people can be anti-american?

[Guerrilla22]

Its clear that a strong anti-imperialist sentiment exist in Latin America. that's why Bush has recieved such negative reactions from the people in the places he has visited.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 08:44 pm
Its clear that a strong anti-imperialist sentiment exist in Latin America. that's why Bush has recieved such negative reactions from the people in the places he has visited.
what do you think the fucking guy and his wife feel? I mean think about it. you go for a few hours to some country and you are hated! LOL..

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

i imagine being extremely rich and powerful compensates for a bunch of people you couldn't care less about not liking you.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 09:44 pm
i imagine being extremely rich and powerful compensates for a bunch of people you couldn't care less about not liking you.
true.. fucking turn gobbler ***** bush!

[Keyser]

I agree, but then I think that Lula's thing with Bush is purely economically, while the Lula probably is more agreeing ideawise with Chavez.

Lula's term in office has shown otherwise.

Lula has had four years in office and despite that and re-election, he has not even gone as far as other reformist leaders like Evo Morales in Bolivia and Rafael Correa in Ecuador in changing the political or economic structure of their respective countries.

Lula has courted global capitalism, multinational-corporations and organisations like the IMF and World Bank. Remember Lula played his part in Brazil trying to stop Evo Morales from carrying out the planned nationalisation of gas reserves and energy resources, because a Brazilian company had a stake in Bolivia's privatised gas economy. Police violence and brutality has increased in the shanty towns of Brazil in the last few years, all under Lula's watchful eye.

Lula is nothing more than a social democrat, a supporter of capitalism (though his only difference with other Brazilian leaders is his desire to increase the strength of Latin American capitalism against that of the US capitalist system) and a class enemy, like all other 'professional politicians'.

Like all capitalist leaders, he needs to be opposed and hopefully overthrown.


Also Lula is friends with Fidel.

So is Robert Mugabe, Thabo Mbeki, Luis Zapatero, China's capitalist ruling class and countless other agencies and individuals of the state and global capitalism.

Anyone can be a 'friend' of Fidel Castro, that says nothing about their politics or their class alliegence.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Lula has courted global capitalism, multinational-corporations and organisations like the IMF and World Bank.

True.


Remember Lula played his part in Brazil trying to stop Evo Morales from carrying out the planned nationalisation of gas reserves and energy resources, because a Brazilian company had a stake in Bolivia's privatised gas economy.

What Evo Morales nationalized were natural gas extraction and processing facilities built and operated by Petrobras, a company of the Brazilian federal government. Lula did not try to stop Morales from expropriating that property. This happened during the presidential campaign last year and Lula actually argued against his opponent in defense of Morales. Such that Evo did expropriate the Brazilian facilities and Brazil didn't retaliate in any way.