A topic of technology and dominance

[Ihavenoidea]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6432307.stm

I commented on this artical but I think they denied it... LMAO... Here is what I wrote.. Please comment:



Humans need to have an understanding of their surroundings or else they will plumit into phychosis.

If someone were to find a 'recipe' for an enotional robot the US government would dystory it immediatly. Rich white men will always want to be the supreme race at all costs.

The Imperial Grand Strategy shows us that. When that was put into play it stated that the United States will do anything to maintain its global dominance. A new strategy isnt too far ahead which will state that the rich will do anything to maintain their wealth and the men will do anything to maintain their fake power over women.

Nowadays anyone with a slight advantage will do anything to maintain that advantage.

Humans' unanimous claim to fame is that we have emotions and the 'gift' of rational thought.

Meanwhile animals (who are also capable of emotions and almost the same thought process as humans "fight or flight") are poached and domesticated, just so we can maintain our power over the world and thus when we are in power... the world makes sence...

If a robot were created which could be capable of rational thought and emotions, it would be dystroyed or never come into existance... If they did, that would make them leavle with the human race. And the government would never allow that.

Which is why they are making so many rules for robots, to confirm their slave status. Humans would dystroy anything evenif it was progressive in order to keep a grip on understanding their reality.

But as we march forward into the future.... To reality, we make no sence, and reality is loosing a grip on us.

These robots will come into existance. Mark my words in stone on that. But if humans find them to be more dominant. They will be crushed at the hands of fake reality. So we can support our measily, weak thoughts.. Not understood by reality itself and set hard by the media.


Hell will be risen as these new robots realise the opression under human race they receive. Because anything with emotions is capable of sadness, and that sadness will become anger and that anger will become argument, and that argument will become a revolution.. In this revolution humans will loose their power.. And perhaps the rich white men will get a taste of slavery and opression themselves.

Then perhaps robots will become dominant in their species... Then maybe something new will happen that threatens the robots comfortable dominance....


-Bella

And on and on I think about this. It is mindboggeling to think of the future :wacko: But even more so to not think of the future. ;)

[Vargha Poralli]

Hell will be risen as these new robots realise the opression under human race they receive. Because anything with emotions is capable of sadness, and that sadness will become anger and that anger will become argument, and that argument will become a revolution.. In this revolution humans will loose their power.. And perhaps the rich white men will get a taste of slavery and opression themselves.


Reading this paragraph I assume that you have recently watched the movie I,Robot . :rolleyes:

[Ihavenoidea]

No I havnt.. I hate will smith so I avoid it. HE SUCKS... Well fresh prince was ok... But it had a repetitive storyline.

Whats the matter? Koran not approve of the recent advances in technolagy?

LMAO :P

I love robots, I will stand by wearing a metal cheerleaders outfit while they slaughter the opressive human race and cheer them on. I am sure the robots would love the idea of communism, because they would use their thought process better then humans would and see it is a terrific ideolagy. lol.

[Vargha Poralli]

No I havnt.. I hate will smith so I avoid it.

But strangely that paragraph is very similar to that Movie. Robot rebelling against Human masters.


Whats the matter? Koran not approve of the recent advances in technolagy?

What I have said anything to do with Koran or recent advances in Technology.


I love robots, I will stand by wearing a metal cheerleaders outfit while they slaughter the opressive human race and cheer them on.

That is Misanthropy but really some strange type.



I am sure the robots would love the idea of communism, because they would use their thought process better then humans would and see it is a terrific ideolagy. lol.

Robots are Machines. The main difference between Men and Machine is that we can think while Machines cant.

[Ihavenoidea]

And I was stating that as the future rapidly progresses we are going to find a formula for mimicing human emoiton. It is impossible that no one figures it out. We have come so far...

And I think it is true.. Humans cant get away with opressing things that are more advanced then us. Robots are going to be more advanced very very soon. Humans want to maintain domiance. it is impossible when something MORE DOMINANT comes into play. When we try and domesticate and opress, the robot will revolt adn fight back. No shit it will lead to a human vs tech war. the humans will wnat power over them, the robots will want freedom.

In a way it is greatly depressing. And in another way it loosley is like the revolution we are trying to start.


I find it sad like... Jeeze all the robots want is to be respected.. but humans cant even respect their own kind.. we discriminate against other humans, people of differant races or colors or looks... We cant respect ourselves. But we need domiance....

It will never work the humans are going down just because the union between us is so scatterd and unjustified.

Robots will win once they ome into existance... and I cirtainly hope they do.


and BTW: Where has thinking gotten us exactly? In a war ridden, poverty stricken capitalist sphere floating in 0-gravity. If robots can think, they would have to understand their own structure and existance in order to process the world around them, and that takes a lot of mental capacity. Therefor they will probably not only be more advanced, but use their minds for more productive things aswell.

I am sure they will have one HELL of a union at their places of employment. just kiddin. lol.

[MrDoom]

Robots are Machines. The main difference between Men and Machine is that we can think while Machines cant.

What are we if not organic 'machines' and chemical processes arranged in a structured and technical form?

[Ihavenoidea]

damn straight. Branding ourselves as natural, real beings is compleat bullshit. Who are we to determine what reality has branded us? We brand ourselves as the dominant race, It is actually quite disgusting.

[MrDoom]

But we are natural, real beings. I just stated that the body follows a predictable pattern of operation.

[Ihavenoidea]

And that is a very easy pattern to mimic.

Personally I question all reality as a form of saftey support, something to fall back on. Reality is only in our minds, everything around us in synthetic but made by our minds, not by human hands... I wont get into that because it is too confusing and I would need at least 10 hours to write it up and it would be so long no one would read it.


I think that that pettern can be mimmiced but as I said in the beginning post, I am not sure if the government will ever allow it to come into existance. It even just ONE were to, it would be the end of human dominance, and robots have no need for food, or material items (at least if they wanted to have some goods they could.. but I see little point in robots seeing the importance of made things, they are way too advanced for that I am sure.

I do not see the government being able to allow a lifeform of greater intelligence compared to humans to come into being. That is why so many rules were made for the robots, unfortunatly one cannot programme all of these rules into the robot and teach them to live according to these rules because in the robot laws there are several contradictions that the robot has to distinguish and that is impossible to make from scratch, but general human emotions and thought can be easily coppied and therefrom the thoughts can build themselves.

These laws just go to show how the rich white man wants to continue to accumulate slaves for his own benifit.

HI-YAA! I am so tired. My friend bought me this little robot before she moved back to Germany and it was just a tiny blue and yellow one that when you inserted a penny it dances and clapped it hands... I love to keep it by my bed. It actually got be thining about capitalism and robotic slavery the other day and I am just facinated.

^-^

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 03:26 am

Robots are Machines. The main difference between Men and Machine is that we can think while Machines cant.

What are we if not organic 'machines' and chemical processes arranged in a structured and technical form?


But what seperates us from Man Made Robots is that we can think. Robots can't. Any supercomputer could defeat a chess grand master but we have to remember that supercomputer is programmed by a Human.


Branding ourselves as natural, real beings is compleat bullshit. Who are we to determine what reality has branded us? We brand ourselves as the dominant race, It is actually quite disgusting.

But that is what reality is based on. We are natural products unless or otherwise some body comes with a proof that Aliens from other Galaxy created us.


And I was stating that as the future rapidly progresses we are going to find a formula for mimicing human emoiton. It is impossible that no one figures it out.

A lot of reasearch has been done on that. Even if it becomes a success we can make machines to mimick human emotions but that does not mean that they will feel.


robots will want freedom.


the robot will revolt adn fight back

All this requires ability to think and be alienated. Robots will be programmed to do the work. That will the whole purpose of their existence.

I suggest you to stop taking science fiction too seriously.

[MrDoom]

Indeed, the whole "robot revolution" thing reminds me of a previous thread that was made by someone who watched Robots once too many times. For robots to revolt they would require the information-processing capability to realize their situation. So long as they are dependent on human-controlled programming, that will never happen.


Personally I question all reality as a form of saftey support, something to fall back on. Reality is only in our minds, everything around us in synthetic but made by our minds, not by human hands... I wont get into that because it is too confusing and I would need at least 10 hours to write it up and it would be so long no one would read it.
That sounds a lot like idealism, and hence makes no sense whatsoever. What does 'safety support' mean? And what then of the state of the universe before humans or for that matter any sort of brain was around? If all humans died would reality 'end'?

I'm getting off-topic. You should make a new thread for that.


But what seperates us from Man Made Robots is that we can think. Robots can't. Any supercomputer could defeat a chess grand master but we have to remember that supercomputer is programmed by a Human.
What fundamental difference exists between sentient information-processing and semi-intelligent AI programming aside from the complexity of the data processed and the feedback generated?

If it were possible to program an AI to accurately model the states and naunces of the brain, and held an intelligence comparable to a human, would it be "thought", or would even the most "human" AI still be working according to its programming?

And if it is only working from program, then what does that say about our own inbuilt psychological and neurological mechanisms?

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 05:00 am
Robots will be programmed to do the work. That will the whole purpose of their existence.

Interesting, this is the same way capitalists look at working class people.

[Ihavenoidea]

Exactly.

Dominance of one over another. Which is why I stated it as lomd pf depressing, that even if they had the forula to make human-like AI they would be resitriced and controlled like animals.

It has already happened to the working class and is still happening and it has happened to animals, and computers and it will happen to AI..... But perhaps the thought process of the AI will be so extremem they wont stand for it for long and shut the human-capitalists down for GOOD.


And MrDoom: Me and my anarchist mother just hae long winding conversations about the universe and how Mme.Currie and Einstein proposed at least 12 differant Dimentions... And we have only discovered 3D..... Or perhaps it is out there as we speak all around us but we just arnt advanced enough to see it or understand it.... *looks around and blinks*

it is absolutly mindboggeling to me to thin kabout far far far away in a universe that it alternate to our time and space and reality... That there might be people sitting in their planet wondering the same thing as I am now.... And questioning life on other planets... And not knowing we exist... And we dont know they exist... And there is maybe a leftist forum like this one...

perhaps some of us are in an alternate reality and dont even know it... Personally when I hear of people deemed "phychopathic" I always question it.. Sometimes these people say the most increadable things... And waht about people with Multipul Personality Disorder (I like to use "Multipul personality GIFT"), perhaps they are gicin a way to look into a differant time and space or look far back upon a time and sapce that never existed.... Or maybe it really did..... Like when you get these ppeople... And they are explaining IN DETAIL things that never happened to them but explaining it in such uttermost complex phrase... as if it did.... And it is crazy that they can play by play in detail something that never happened to them... Maybe it did.. To someone in an alternate reality... A differant dimension... and she/he suddenly got a grasp on a reality that exists so far away...


Heehee.. I love talking about this stuff.... It is so interesting.. But if I post aa topic here people are most deffinatly gonna flame me.. i can feel it lol.

[MrDoom]

ROFL

Don't act like 'dumb' robots are the same as working class people. Don't get me wrong, a clock-work human cyborg with completely standardized and interchangable parts would be a useful and desireable technology to apply to the human body, but there is a wide gap between a person, and a robot which exists on a similar level to work animals and livestock.

[Ihavenoidea]

what if it had emotions? And was (and will be) a slave to the rich just as the working class are...

they would have to work and be productive for the rich to beinifit the rich, just like the working class.

They would be opressed and controlled by privileged members of society, not unlike the working class..

You cannot deny that if AI was brought into being it would be used for slave-work and would unboubtingly replace humans in factories and other jobs because all it knows is slavery and does not need pay. The rich would get richer from these bots. The working class would become the dying class and no doubt there would be quicker revolt. And STRONGER revolt. A man with no food for his family will quickly be a very unhappy man. And thus the wheels of the revolution begin to turn, but the robots will have their day, none of this is written in stone. I am just making a guess.. However one thing is for cirtain is that we will have this AI technolegy very very very soon. It is rapidly approaching as we take more steps into the future and there are more hungry men and more dying class.

All I can say is that anything being opressed is very much like the working class, raped and left to starve after a long days work which would have been prosporous if it wasnt for the evil of capitalism.


I am sorry comrade, I do not beleive that the working class should be dissed (as it seemed you interperated it this way from my words, sorry if you did, I did not mean it that way) but at the same time I do not beleive that AI is dumb. Complex, intelligence made from the shock of circuts.

I look into the future. I see the Revolution, I see a communist state and I see evolution of those circuts into great intellectual beings. Until then, we will fight for a communist state. But when that time comes, where the robots' intelligence and use surpasses that of humans, if it is in my lifetime I will accept it knowing that humans are not a dominant species.

Well.. Not for long...

Thank you for participating MrDoom, you are really awsome debater. Perhaps one day we can have a yahoo or msn convo and talk about this stuff even more in depth.. ok? *shakes hand* For now, lets just stick to the comments on advances on technolagy because I have an itch.....


I really want to know, if AI was to be created that had emotions, could they be able to have all the same rights as humans in a communist state? Comments will vary I am sure. But this should be interesting.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by colorlessman+March 10, 2007 11:38 am--> (colorlessman @ March 10, 2007 11:38 am)
[email protected] 10, 2007 05:00 am
Robots will be programmed to do the work. That will the whole purpose of their existence.

Interesting, this is the same way capitalists look at working class people. [/b]
One thing what you have to do is to read members posts fully. Not just take some reply out of contest and make yourself stupid.


what if it had emotions? And was (and will be) a slave to the rich just as the working class are...

It cant have emotions. End of story. They are Machines that are designed to do some particular task. If they do it well and fine and if they are not doing it they have got some problem that should be repaired.


It is very unlikely that they will start union demand pay rise and Strike to enforce their demand.

[Ihavenoidea]

They dont tho G. Like I said in my last post (perhaps YOU should start reading posts) that they will replace humans because they have no need for pay or union. And then read the rest of my post.... to explain everything else. lol :D

But anyhoooooo... They will be able to mimic human emotions in the near future. That is that. It is impossible that it will never come into play. Humans are socially dominant in aspects of being right now but our claim to fame isnt that complex or unique... Please read the rest of my posts G. lol

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 06:29 am
Don't act like 'dumb' robots are the same as working class people.
How are they not the say?


"The US military plans to have a fifth of its combat units fully automated by the year 2020. " Why?

[MrDoom]

what if it had emotions? And was (and will be) a slave to the rich just as the working class are...

they would have to work and be productive for the rich to beinifit the rich, just like the working class.

They would be opressed and controlled by privileged members of society, not unlike the working class..

Why would anyone design an AI with emotional capability if it is intended for dehumanizing work? Isn't that the point -- the work is dehumanizing, so we use an emotionless machine to perform the labor?

My friend, you should brush up on your robotics. Machines only do what is built into their design -- it would be a huge blunder to build an AI with emotions and then make it preform such labor.


You cannot deny that if AI was brought into being it would be used for slave-work and would unboubtingly replace humans in factories and other jobs because all it knows is slavery and does not need pay. The rich would get richer from these bots.

How, exactly, would the rich get richer while the poor poorer? Value is made only when human labor is involved in a task.

If anything, too much automation hurts the capitalists. If everything were in abundance and required no labor, the artifical scarcity of capitalism would fall apart. The masters would have no reason to be above the rest of society.


All I can say is that anything being opressed is very much like the working class, raped and left to starve after a long days work which would have been prosporous if it wasnt for the evil of capitalism.
You can't rape nor starve a robot, and ideally it never stops operation. The comparison between mech and proletarian isn't even viable, it's just sci-fi romanticism.


I am sorry comrade, I do not beleive that the working class should be dissed (as it seemed you interperated it this way from my words, sorry if you did, I did not mean it that way) but at the same time I do not beleive that AI is dumb. Complex, intelligence made from the shock of circuts.
Complexity is not a function of intelligence. 'Dumb' AI are those that are designed around a particular and repetitive task with little or no dynamic qualities.


I look into the future. I see the Revolution, I see a communist state and I see evolution of those circuts into great intellectual beings. Until then, we will fight for a communist state. But when that time comes, where the robots' intelligence and use surpasses that of humans, if it is in my lifetime I will accept it knowing that humans are not a dominant species.
First off, robots are not a species; thus they cannot be a dominant race.

However, with the practical nature of humans, it is more my hope that eventually there will be little to no distinction between a human body and a mechanical device. Computerization of the brain and the merging of man and his tools is simply too useful a concept to ignore, and the only major objectors would be the bible-thumpers and liberal moralists; and they can simply be ignored and left to become socially outdated and obsolete organic meatbags.

There will be no "polarization" of humans and machines. They will become one and the same. A clockwork man of metal and synthetic flesh that has completely standardized and replaceable 'organs', and a modular mind/machine interface.

Though maybe I'm starting to be the sci-fi romantic. *sigh*

[MrDoom]

Originally posted by colorlessman+March 10, 2007 07:21 am--> (colorlessman @ March 10, 2007 07:21 am)
[email protected] 10, 2007 06:29 am
Don't act like 'dumb' robots are the same as working class people.
How are they not the say?


"The US military plans to have a fifth of its combat units fully automated by the year 2020. " Why? [/b]
Because the US military wants to be good at what it does, efficient slaughter of anyone who challenges the capitalists; including us.

What does that have to do with proletarians and their 'relation' to robots?

[colorlessman]

Do robots pose a threat to humans or do humans pose a threat to them?

I think, the rich human class will use robotic technology to exterminate and destroy the human working class, if they can have intelligent, thinking obedient robots.

Robots will either free the working class or be the end of the human working class. Why? because the working class does not own or have access to the technology. The robots will be owned, programed and advanced by the few in their interests. Plus, the working class exist because the rich value it is labour power, if it is labour power can be replaced what good is the working class? The working class in such a case in the eyes of the capitalists will be seen as excess, uncontroable human population that needs to be eliminated. I think capitalists will rather populate their world with slave robots than humans who can naturally think. Their only fear left, will be one day the robots end up becoming more smart than them and destroying their dominance.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by MrDoom+March 10, 2007 07:27 am--> (MrDoom @ March 10, 2007 07:27 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:21 am

[email protected] 10, 2007 06:29 am
Don't act like 'dumb' robots are the same as working class people.
How are they not the say?


"The US military plans to have a fifth of its combat units fully automated by the year 2020. " Why?
Because the US military wants to be good at what it does, efficient slaughter of anyone who challenges the capitalists; including us.

What does that have to do with proletarians and their 'relation' to robots? [/b]
That quote has nothing to do with proletarians.

My question still stands, how are working class people not the same as robots? Aren't they not both tools to be used by the rich?

[Ihavenoidea]

I was referring to the wroking class when I made that comment abour rape and rape symbolized to be used. ok?

Can I coauthor your sci-fi romace novels? ^-^

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one, I mean, i would love tot alk to you in private but I am afrain I could overreact because I am known for that lol. But I have my coffee right here so I am safe for now. And so are you. LOL Just kiddin.

But there is just too much room for this to become an argument because you post, I post is so 1d and pathetic, lets chat on msn or something! I just dont wanna let this turn into another "Nazi bf thread" lol. And I have a tendency to watch a thread like a hawk and not get any sleep at all! It is midnight here... But maybe you can give me your email via pm and we can chat sometime. ok?

In Solidarity,
Bella

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by colorlessman+March 10, 2007 08:02 am--> (colorlessman @ March 10, 2007 08:02 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:27 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:21 am

[email protected] 10, 2007 06:29 am
Don't act like 'dumb' robots are the same as working class people.
How are they not the say?


"The US military plans to have a fifth of its combat units fully automated by the year 2020. " Why?
Because the US military wants to be good at what it does, efficient slaughter of anyone who challenges the capitalists; including us.

What does that have to do with proletarians and their 'relation' to robots?
That quote has nothing to do with proletarians.

My question still stands, how are working class people not the same as robots? Aren't they not both tools to be used by the rich? [/b]
:huh: What the fuck is this? Robot Rights? Robots differ from working class people in a few key ways: One we fucking built them, two they are not self aware, three their entire purpose is to serve, they are not emotional creatures.

This entire thread is fucking ridiculous. No one is arguing that we should grant autonomy to toasters, why do we need to do so for robots?

[Vargha Poralli]

This entire thread is fucking ridiculous. No one is arguing that we should grant autonomy to toasters, why do we need to do so for robots?

Well said :lol: . This thread is nothing about Science or Technology. Chitchat is the right place for this thread.

[MrDoom]

Agreed. These guys know nothing of robotics or concept of design. Machines do not simply "gain emotions" out of nothing.

[Ihavenoidea]

@ MrDoom - I posed the question of robot rights in my last thread.

@G.ram - Toasters cant think and appearently neither can you if you cant figure out that this whole time I was proposing the theory of inlelligent robotics that could actually be made in the future.
Me and Doom were discussing that and you were acting as if it truley existed right now and that I thought it existed right now. LMAO

Wait.. have they developed those in India? LMAO

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 03:23 am
Toasters cant think and appearently neither can you if you cant figure out that this whole time I was proposing the theory of inlelligent robotics that could actually be made in the future.
Robots can't think either, fuckwit. They can give a very good impression of thinking but they are simply following, at the very core, an "if;then" type coding.
If: A human is talking about things they don't know about.
Then: Flame them until they learn or fuck off.

Hell, even an intelligent robot in the future will occupy the same moral space as a toaster, we built it, whatever "intelligence" it posses was made by us so we know its thinking patterns, oh and it has no emotional attachment to its own self preservation.

[Ihavenoidea]

Or how about:

Take your avatar and write before that - how about you? or: Read the whole goddamn thread and then (insert avatar saying here)


If one was to be able to mimic human thought, then one would have (even if not natural) synthetic emotion.

If something was programmed to know what was wrong apart from what was right and it did something wrong, its sytem would go haywire because it did something it wasnt supposed to do. Like a child. A child is taught to not touch something that is not his because he might break it, and he touches is and breaks it... The kid tries and hides the something to make sure no one finds out (because he knew he did something wrong) or he is very upset and scared because he knew he wasnt supposed to do that.

Robots could very well be able to mimic that system if the right person would be able to know enough and understand it enough. The person who creates this robot will have to have a knowledge of the human brain and a knowledge of science and robotics. Like a neurologist/computer braniac.

Eeeh.. maybe I should get a neurologist to study on your brain to see if there is anything wrong... Oh wait! I remember they did give you a CATscan of your skull.. They found nothing in there.... pwn3d.

Oh yea! And before I forget.. I need to outline my posts for stupid people. Just incase they shoot back at me and then they look really shit-like.

POINT OF MY POST (AND MY VIEW): Humans arnt that complex. We are animals that run off of instinct.. We maybe able to think deeper into a situation (how about you use that skill?), but we are very very primitive. Fight or Flight. BASIC thought. The fact that we only use 5% of our brain. That 5% isnt that much. The general construction of the human body is amazingly complex and longwinded, true. But we have already made a functioning body on a robot. That part is easy. We made the body, now install the general, summed up, mind. Because what I am proposing is a 5% mind in bulletpoint. Summed up and easy. Look at the general motivation, lifestyle and reaction to siuations of the normal, healthy human being (NOT you).. And you will find a pattern. That pattern is primitive and simple.

Now someone needs to get it in compu-format.

What is love? Love is admiration or positive interest of someone else. That is why love can be directed at children, animals, a man if you are a man or a woman if you are a woman. Admiration, affection, and interest in another lifeforms charictaristics is a relitivly simple thing to understand. If we already have the internet, something that can distinguish between billions of things at one time and work quickly, it is possible that something could be intalled in the robot to DISTINGUISH (much like the internet) a cirtain human being from all the rest, perhaps their charictaristics or personallity, but the robot would be interested and admire this person for being unique. A broken down form of love.

What is sadness? Someone does something wrong, they feel sad and anxious because they know they shouldnt have done that... It has a sub emotion - Fear. You are fearful of what is going to happen now that you did that cirtain something. Break it down for robots into the robot was told not to do that and it did it... like I said, system is gonna go insane bcause it did that... Or perhaps one was sad because he or she lost something or someone.. again - fear of CHANGE, we are fearful by the fact that now that person is not going to be there to do something that they used to do for us... what is the most common thing said once a person died : "What am I gonna do?!?" We are indeed thinking of ourselves, because now that person isnt there and we will have to adjust to that fact. Robots can also notice a change in their enviroment and therefor have to adjuct and progress in order to become idle. A broken down form of sadness and fear.

ETC on all other emotions... They CAN be broken down into a simplistec format. A robot will have a broken down form of emotion, it will not be natural, but it will be insanely close to a humans natural emotion. Synthetic paridise, really.... Again, I am just theorising and guessing. But not closing all doors to the could-be future.

Dont be afraid to just talk and guess.. I am not saying it is written in stone. I am saying that if one scientist could find out the proper code.... One could add a mind to the body. And no doubt it would be interesting as hell... And I am just trying to discuss how that code might work, and what would hapen with the enviroment ripe of our newly built friends.

I am tired! (initializing feeling of needing to rest.... *** Please wait for instalation of actions attributed with this feeling.... Installing...)

*Yawns and streches*

Good night! .... Err...Morning..... (initializing actions attributed with leaving)

*Waves*

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 01:48 pm
Or how about:

Take your avatar and write before that - how about you? or: Read the whole goddamn thread and then (insert avatar saying here)
:huh: So write the phrase "how about you?" before the phrase "fuck your opinion"? That comes out with "How about you? Fuck your opinion." now call me a bit of a pedant if you want but that doesn't really make much sense. I have been reading this thread, tell me do you know much about anything? At all?


If one was to be able to mimic human thought, then one would have (even if not natural) synthetic emotion. No they wouldn't emotions are too random. They could display signs of the emotion, yes, but actually *feel* that emotion? You should put down the space opera Sci-Fi and read some hard stuff.


If something was programmed to know what was wrong apart from what was right and it did something wrong, its sytem would go haywire because it did something it wasnt supposed to do. Why give it the capability to do that wrong? If you could program a concept of "wrong" into it then you could easily make such an action impossible.
Like a child. A child is taught to not touch something that is not his because he might break it, and he touches is and breaks it... The kid tries and hides the something to make sure no one finds out (because he knew he did something wrong) or he is very upset and scared because he knew he wasnt supposed to do that. Right, a robot is told not to touch something. It doesn't because the people who programmed it weren't stupid enough to program disobedience into it, but lets assume it does accidentally break this object - either it will immediately give itself up or it will attempt to repair it or whatever - it will not feel 'sad' about it because it can't feel. It could behave 'sadly' about it but that's not the same thing.


Robots could very well be able to mimic that system if the right person would be able to know enough and understand it enough. The person who creates this robot will have to have a knowledge of the human brain and a knowledge of science and robotics. Like a neurologist/computer braniac. If you proposed this idea to them they'd laugh in your face. The main point is yes it could mimic an emotion - not feel it.

Eeeh.. maybe I should get a neurologist to study on your brain to see if there is anything wrong... Oh wait! I remember they did give you a CATscan of your skull.. They found nothing in there.... pwn3d.


Oh yea! And before I forget.. I need to outline my posts for stupid people. Just incase they shoot back at me and then they look really shit-like. You're already a simpleton, attempting to be condescending and sounding like a prat in the process will not help you.


POINT OF MY POST (AND MY VIEW): Humans arnt that complex. We are animals Great start, you've contradicted yourself already. "Humans aren't that complex. They are animals" - can you tell what is wrong with that statement? Biological critters are extremely complex - no machine comes close to the complexity of, say, a herring - what hope do they have of mimicing the complexities of a human or other primate.
that run off of instinct.. Robots are incapable of instinctual thinking, making them inferior already - by your own argument too.
We maybe able to think deeper into a situation (how about you use that skill?), but we are very very primitive. Fight or Flight. BASIC thought. The fact that we only use 5% of our brain. That 5% isnt that much. You know that we don't need to use more than 5% of the brain - also that 5% figure is reached by a weird definition of the word 'use' that doesn't include things like keeping our respiratory system operative (something I recommend you give up before you embarrass yourself further). Humans also have the advantage of improvisational thinking, we can immediately adapt to a new situation without any prior instruction - that's another advantage of instinct over rigid programming.
The general construction of the human body is amazingly complex and longwinded, true. But we have already made a functioning body on a robot. That part is easy. Yes but we haven't made anything superior to a human body in a robot, yes it functions but that is not the issue, the issue is how well[ it functions.
We made the body, now install the general, summed up, mind. Bing. Instant superiority? I think not.
Because what I am proposing is a 5% mind in bulletpoint. Summed up and easy. Look at the general motivation, lifestyle and reaction to siuations of the normal, healthy human being (NOT you).. And you will find a pattern. That pattern is primitive and simple. Again citing that 5% figure shows you know little of the brain as an organ, but I'll forgive you because I know they don't tell you that much at school, hopefully when you're a little older you'll look back on this and cringe. So you're suggesting a list of routines (lifestyle) and reactions? I think you rather miss the point of a lot of human thinking, you seem to assume it's mostly reactive, like a robot would be. It isn't. Also that you had to stipulate that it isn't me you are going to use as the model human being shows that we have a lot more breadth of thinking and diversity of reaction than is convenient to program into a robot - personality if you will, yet another thing that robots are incapable of.


Now someone needs to get it in compu-format.

What is love? Love is admiration or positive interest of someone else. That is why love can be directed at children, animals, a man if you are a man or a woman if you are a woman. Admiration, affection, and interest in another lifeforms charictaristics is a relitivly simple thing to understand. If we already have the internet, something that can distinguish between billions of things at one time and work quickly, it is possible that something could be intalled in the robot to DISTINGUISH (much like the internet) a cirtain human being from all the rest, perhaps their charictaristics or personallity, but the robot would be interested and admire this person for being unique. A broken down form of love. Problem one: you would need to describe "admiration" and "interest" as well, love is a much harder concept than those tow yes, but you still have to get "admiration and [positive] interest" in "compu-format before you could begine to contemplate making a "love" analogue. Problem two: The robot would simply be displaying the actions of someone in love, not actually feeling love. Finally you would have to define "personality" or even "charecteristics" as well. All this to add an extraneous emotion to a machine that doesn't need it? WHY?


What is sadness? Someone does something wrong, they feel sad and anxious because they know they shouldnt have done that... That *REALLY* isn't the definition or only cause of sadness, sadness is actually an incredibly difficult thing to explain to someone who has never felt it and even harder to synthesise as something that makes one person sad may not provoke the same reaction in others. Oh and you also don't recognise types and degrees of sadness, back to the drawing board for you on Sad, eh?
It has a sub emotion - Fear. You are fearful of what is going to happen now that you did that cirtain something. Not always, often fear is not the direct result of your own actions but of the actions and behaviours of others.
Break it down for robots into the robot was told not to do that and it did it... like I said, system is gonna go insane bcause it did that... Yes but that's not even similar to sadness - I don't start spazzing out when I hear a paticularly melancholy song or when I've done something incorrectly.
Or perhaps one was sad because he or she lost something or someone.. again - fear of CHANGE, we are fearful by the fact that now that person is not going to be there to do something that they used to do for us... what is the most common thing said once a person died : "What am I gonna do?!?" We are indeed thinking of ourselves, because now that person isnt there and we will have to adjust to that fact. Robots can also notice a change in their enviroment and therefor have to adjuct and progress in order to become idle. A broken down form of sadness and fear. Again, what is the point in introducing sadness to a robot, I can see its possible applitcation as a way of correcting error but as the robot doesn't actually feel sad it is pointless. As for fear it is one of the only emotions I see being useful to a robot as a way of preventing it from being destroyed.


ETC on all other emotions... They CAN be broken down into a simplistec format. A robot will have a broken down form of emotion, it will not be natural, but it will be insanely close to a humans natural emotion. Synthetic paridise, really.... Again, I am just theorising and guessing. But not closing all doors to the could-be future. What is the practical application of this, other than say as a form of company for aspergic or autistic people? The pseudofeelings appear to serve no purpose, especially in a robot which is essentially a tool - a way of eradicating work for humans.


Dont be afraid to just talk and guess.. I am not saying it is written in stone. I am saying that if one scientist could find out the proper code.... One could add a mind to the body. And no doubt it would be interesting as hell... And I am just trying to discuss how that code might work, and what would hapen with the enviroment ripe of our newly built friends. Oh it would defiantly be useful to have more advanced AI, simply so that we can use robots to do even more work - they would especially good in a technocracy, certainly if you gave them enough technical knowledge we could have them running the entire technical tier of government. I just don't see any reason to elevate them to the same level as humans and certianly no reason to give them any of our extraneous emotions, in a way that lack of the ability to have emotions is part of the charm of robots.


I am tired! (initializing feeling of needing to rest.... *** Please wait for instalation of actions attributed with this feeling.... Installing...)

*Yawns and streches*

Good night! .... Err...Morning..... (initializing actions attributed with leaving)

*Waves* :lol: Some how that reminds me of Kryten from Red Dwarf.

[Ihavenoidea]

Do you read nothing I say, Jazzy boy?

You just quote me and skim then find a snazy responce?


So write the phrase "how about you?" before the phrase "fuck your opinion"? That comes out with "How about you? Fuck your opinion." now call me a bit of a pedant if you want but that doesn't really make much sense. I have been reading this thread, tell me do you know much about anything? At all?

Pedant. Or maybe you just dont read your OWN posts.


if;then" type coding.
If: A human is talking about things they don't know about.
Then: Flame them until they learn or fuck off.



You wrote that, I continued it with my own version.

Someone might say:"Would you like some tea? OR HOW ABOUT some coffee?"

It is a way to make a distinguishment between to things, as a linking sort of question. I wrote:

How about:

Then gave options.. If you knew anything, it would have come out:

"Read the whole goddamn thread, and fuck your opinion"

OR

"How about you fuck your opinion?"

So you do indeed look like a fuckball.


No they wouldn't emotions are too random. They could display signs of the emotion, yes, but actually *feel* that emotion? You should put down the space opera Sci-Fi and read some hard stuff.

Wha? *puts down "Flight of the gental machines" * Its a wonderful book.. About this robot in 2099 and him and his human lover are trying to break free of the forces of their facist-robot-hating government.....

And that is what mimic means, love... To display.. And that is all I am saying is Mimic... If we were to maybe find a way to copy neurological activity then we would be able in the very very far off future *mumbles*....

*shouts suddenly* HAVE YOU NEVER SEEN BICENTENNIAL MAN?*mumbles again..*



Great start, you've contradicted yourself already. "Humans aren't that complex. They are animals" - can you tell what is wrong with that statement? Biological critters are extremely complex - no machine comes close to the complexity of, say, a herring - what hope do they have of mimicing the complexities of a human or other primate.


A primate like you? Complex and yet so easy to mimic. It was a contraction indeed! What hope dont they have? You should stay with the muslims or another society where evolving and advancments in technolagy are not allowed.. You are like a human-supiriorist... I am suprised you are not caging and genetically modifying animals to benifit human advancement. If the further of the human race above all is your goal, then you mind as well just support capitalism, because they do everything for select groups advancemtn, and hey! Youll get some money out of it, animal killer... Right? Mind as well skin those damn animals for a nice gucci coat, save some money by sending the skins to china to be fabricated and throw away the body which could have been used for food.... This is what you end up with:

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/images/animal_skinned.jpg

http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/skinned.jpg

Too disgusting to make images...

" The tragic flaw in the human species is its historical need to define itself not only radically different from all other species, but also as infinently greater and more advanced." - taken from impactpress.com

When the truth is, humans will be surpassed in intelligence and efficiancy one day and will become obsolete.... Unless you advocate for a state that is reminicant of the jurassic era, we need technolegy now. We have become mechanicly dependent. We are useless without planes, cars, the internet, machines to make everything for us, to automaticly vaccum our carpets and wash our dishes, for when we have a sore leg or back pains to massage us, to help us communicate. All these items need is a more advanced system and command process...

They can be programmed to mimic... Ultimatley machine is superior to man in all aspects. but a good example would be even your toaster is more advanced then YOU jazzrat.

I guess I just hate humans *shrugs*


And the techno revolution is comming because Arnold S. has a pollitical office. :)

And you are like a character from a corny old 40s movie called "ATTACK of the killer robots from Mars!"


Like I said, the robots have already surpassed human intelligence, they just dont know it and we are too ignorent to see it. Intelligence =

efficiancy + structure + abillity


All we need now is to wait for it *goes back to reading her robo-romace book*


And the rest of your post didnt even deserve an answer because it was so..... whats the word... well anyway, it was pure bullshit *that was it!* and the fact that you think I am writting this in stone (as flattering it is for you to devine me) is crazy :D I aint.. Like I said, it is a theory based on the constant advancement because of research on techno-bots. Not the truth.. Just a guess and joke an' all!

But I like talking about this... Anyone recommend a good robo movie? I am goin out to get some vids.... I will get I robot dispite my hate for Will Smith cuz of G.ram... Anymore? OH RIGHT! And the movie you star in, Jazz... Attack of the Killer robots.. It should be good according to screenshots.

http://www.monstrula.de/filme/robotmonster/still8.jpg

^YOU (what nice arms you have....)



-Bella



http://www.robot.hu/images/logo.jpg

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 05:38 pm
Blah, Blah, Blah, Misanthropy, Blah.
As fascinating as it would be to go through your post bit y bit I really can't be arsed, especially as I did so but my browser crashed just before I could send it - so here are the points in brief:

You know bugger all about language.
You know bugger all about robots.
You're slightly less intelligent than tramp smegma.
I am a human supremacist.
I don't mind skinning animals and I definitely want to cage and genetically engineer them for the good of humanity.
Far from the technophobic strawman you've been arguing against I'm actually a TRANSHUMANIST technophile.

Not much else really, just basically the same message - You're wrong and not only are you wrong you're a grotesque freak of nature. As you were kind enough to find a picture of me I would have found a picture of you but we aren't allowed to give links to machine porn (or indeed any other type) here :angry:

[Ihavenoidea]

You know bugger all about language.

Yeah I know lol. What can you expect from a non-native english speaker? I dunno, but lower your expectations and you will never be suprised... lol.... Like with you I had no expectations.. NONE. And I aint suprised... lol.


You know bugger all about robots.

You know bugger about toasters :D



You're slightly less intelligent than tramp smegma.

Lol and you are slightly less intelligent then my toaster from 1989. :)



I am a human supremacist.


Capitalist ^-^


I don't mind skinning animals and I definitely want to cage and genetically engineer them for the good of humanity.

Of course... The good of your wardrobe ^-^ Enjoy the child-laboured, animal murder coat, mr. cappie.



Far from the technophobic strawman you've been arguing against I'm actually a TRANSHUMANIST technophile.

*at her robot friend* Bow to him, sweetie...

*Both bow* Now throw $2 in his hat....



not to sound cliche...Go and buy yourself a life with that money ^-^ Or maybe a
brick and stone you can make a church out of dedicated to flesh and bones. They worship beings at 10:00am on a Sunday and you pray to your own bodies. Then to make a face at earth and science, and too show them how powerful you all are you jump out a window in order to fly.

Alas... Rapid decreasing population in the transhumanists.

Love ya!

ROBOT *in mechanical voice*: Love... Ya....

-Bella and Raymond the Robot.



PS:


As you were kind enough to find a picture of me I would have found a picture of you but we aren't allowed to give links to machine porn (or indeed any other type) here

I would love some techno-porno and tea, thank you ^-^

It was just a guy dressed up as a robot or else you would have just proved me [everything u have been arguing against] right... Cuz he was on fia'!!..

*Raymond looks down and sobs*

Aww nah, Ray, I love you too!

RAY: *techno grin*

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 11:57 pm

You know bugger all about language.

Yeah I know lol. What can you expect from a non-native english speaker?
That they wouldn't immediately try to attack my use of english?


I dunno, but lower your expectations and you will never be suprised... lol.... Like with you I had no expectations.. NONE. And I aint suprised... lol. Are you on drugs? Why is it that your posts consistently lack any semblance of lucidity?



You know bugger all about robots.

You know bugger about toasters :D Not really, I won one and have repaired it several times. There isn't much to know. That you believe they have some secret intellect to them shows how little you know.




You're slightly less intelligent than tramp smegma.

Lol and you are slightly less intelligent then my toaster from 1989. :) According to you that makes me smarter. Unless of course there is actually a lot of untapped intellect in tramp smegma of which us "mere mortals" are not aware, with your fruit loop ideas this wouldn't surprise me.




I am a human supremacist.


Capitalist ^-^ No,no,no,no, NO. Very different things for a start capitalism is not in the interest of all of humanity and is therefore antithetical to human-supremacy.



I don't mind skinning animals and I definitely want to cage and genetically engineer them for the good of humanity.

Of course... The good of your wardrobe ^-^ Enjoy the child-laboured, animal murder coat, mr. cappie. I don't wear fur, I think it looks ridiculous on me, I do wear leather however. What I was reffering to with the animals genetically engineered thing was more like this. (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=60593&hl=transgenic)




Far from the technophobic strawman you've been arguing against I'm actually a TRANSHUMANIST technophile.

*at her robot friend* Bow to him, sweetie...

*Both bow* Now throw $2 in his hat.... Seriously, peyote may seem like fun and it is but don't post on revleft whilst taking it.


not to sound cliche...Go and buy yourself a life with that money ^-^ And how would you define a life, exactly? Should I just go to the next Storm Front Barbecue and spread my legs for the nearest bonehead?
Or maybe a
brick and stone you can make a church out of dedicated to flesh and bones. Why would I want to do that? Flesh and bone is weak it can so easily be augmented.
They worship beings at 10:00am on a Sunday and you pray to your own bodies. Then to make a face at earth and science, and too show them how powerful you all are you jump out a window in order to fly. Really strong stuff that peyote you're on, eh?


Alas... Rapid decreasing population in the transhumanists. YOu know what would benifit the world? A sharp decrease in the amount of it take up by you, you pathetic waste of carbon. You're clearly no comrade of anyone on this board and you're certianly not fit to declare yourself part of the same species. There are cultures growing in festering yoghurt pots that I would much rather declare kinship for than you, you miserable piece of filth.


Love ya!

ROBOT *in mechanical voice*: Love... Ya....

-Bella and Ramond the Robot. No one is impressed by your sign off. Yes I know you're called Bella, yes I know you're a ****. Now fuck off.

[Ihavenoidea]

That they wouldn't immediately try to attack my use of english?

Your use of english is operating on the "writing before I think" standards.




Not really, I won one and have repaired it several times. There isn't much to know. That you believe they have some secret intellect to them shows how little you know.

Which just goes to show your supiriority over machines, oh great one! Yo can fix your bread-cruster, you have defeated the most powerful of mechanics!

*Bows again*



According to you that makes me smarter. Unless of course there is actually a lot of untapped intellect in tramp smegma of which us "mere mortals" are not aware, with your fruit loop ideas this wouldn't surprise me.

I am not sure there.. *Starts tlaking to Jazzys toaster* It says you stuck screwdrivers in undisierable places..... Not very smart.. But I am sure this toaster is far more advanced then me, a lowly techno-communist... Please be merciful!




No,no,no,no, NO. Very different things for a start capitalism is not in the interest of all of humanity and is therefore antithetical to human-supremacy.

Lol, you like ya leatherz dunt ya?



And how would you define a life, exactly? Should I just go to the next Storm Front Barbecue and spread my legs for the nearest bonehead?

Lol, I am sure you will enjoy it! And if you are reffering to me, because pf all these claims that me and my boyfriend are sexually intimate, we might just have sex later tonight for the first time... Just to confirm everyone's constant accusations of me and him getting nasty. But I can introduce you to some of his friends whenever you are in town if you would wish, oh great Mortal Lord.




Why would I want to do that? Flesh and bone is weak it can so easily be augmented.

Just goes to show the weakness of humans. Life and strength is only skin deep... However Iron... Iron is hard and efficiant ^-^




You know what would benifit the world? A sharp decrease in the amount of it take up by you, you pathetic waste of carbon. You're clearly no comrade of anyone on this board and you're certianly not fit to declare yourself part of the same species. There are cultures growing in festering yoghurt pots that I would much rather declare kinship for than you, you miserable piece of filth.


Sure, Mortal Lord ^-^ I am friends with the comrades on this board who are not ignorent, and who are also unliked by many on here... And then the spambots because they are computers and I am the famous (YES THATS RIGHT I AM..) THE ROBOT WHISPERER!!!!




No one is impressed by your sign off. Yes I know you're called Bella, yes I know you're a ****. Now fuck off.

I reported this because of that word... lol, I was absolutly fine with everything else you said, in fact it was humorous! You took me way too seriously and people tell ME to lighten up!

Lol!

-BELLA AND RAYMOND THE ROBOT (HUGE LETTERS FOR DRAMATIC ENDING)

[MrDoom]

If the two of you don't mind, could we get, you know, slightly back-on topic? About the role of mechanization and its relation to organic meatbags?

Maybe? :huh:

[Ihavenoidea]

PLEASE!

But jazzy marched up in here with his transhumanist bullshit and expected me to get offended. I aint. I just wanna chat about my topic. Thats it. I mean Doom, you were pretty sustained and on topic at least...


-Bella And Raymond

[MrDoom]

But jazzy marched up in here with his transhumanist bullshit and expected me to get offended.
I am a transhumanist. Should I be offended? :(

[Ihavenoidea]

No cuz you arent an asshole.

Not too say Jazzyboi is... But he is just.... really overractive and mean :(

[Comrade J]

That they wouldn't immediately try to attack my use of english?

Your use of english is operating on the "writing before I think" standards.

This bizarre and untrue criticism implies you actually think before you write, which is even more worrying... you actually meant to write half this shit? :unsure:




Why would I want to do that? Flesh and bone is weak it can so easily be augmented.

Just goes to show the weakness of humans. Life and strength is only skin deep... However Iron... Iron is hard and efficiant ^-^

Yeah, and when was the last time you saw a man rusting?

[Ihavenoidea]

Right now! *oils Raymond*

Perhaps stainless steel or that new rust-be-gone iron stuff.

I have lots of that ^-^

but leave it to you to come in and start the broken topic again, I just wanted to start the convo again with people who actually gave a shit about it....

But then again, life is too short. *another flaw of humans*

So anyhoo, anyone wanna start us back up?

MrDoom?


PS: It means he writes before he thinks, silly. Obvious mistakes that peopple dont understand... People scare me.... :(

[MrDoom]

What discussion is there to continue? Your thesis was flawed and you show a meatbag tendency to think of robots as another "life form" with inherent emotions.

[Ihavenoidea]

No I dont..

I am mearly propsing that perhaps one day we can give them synthetic emotion as ones I stated inb a previous post.

And I am entertaining the theory that neurological stimuli could be created.....


You guys really dont like to think outside yourselves or entertain theories and guesses, do you? You like to lock yourselve sup and say "NOPE! This is my feelings about a cirtain subject or topic and it will never change! YOU CANT MAKE ME!!!"

Ignorence...... I dont even CARE if it is possible I like to have fun and think about things.... And just entertain ideas... And ask myself questions.. Like if one was to syntheticly disigne a neurological system, how would that be possible or work?

You guys give up to easilly..... And then get nasty when people dont gratify your stone thoughts... <_<

[MrDoom]

If it were possible to give our livestock sapient thought, would we?

No, nor would we give thought to machines intended for drudgerous tasks, for the same reason.

Hopefully one day there will be no distinction between a man and an electronic device and we&#39;ll have manufactured transhumans marching out of the factories by the millions, electronic minds settling into waiting amorphic mechanized bodies and computer-simulated realities. Hence, the issue of "robot rights" would be null.

[Ihavenoidea]

I see a world where humans see themselves as no greater then a blade of grass...

Humans must be crushed down to nothing too see themselves as nothing, perhaps then they will think.

If one was to define if a robot would get rights.. One would have to define what a human is and why we should get rights... And what an animal is and why they should get rights. I have seen animals do amazing things, build entire communities, woo each other, set bounderies, communicate with humans, even kill themselves when their population became so great that the young ones will die from lack of food to animal ratio.... Should they be concidered humans because they do such things? Humans claim to be able to build great things... So can The Octopus and the birds and the beavers and the spiders and so many animals that love a nice dwelling/sleeping place. Humans say "Well we can think rationally&#33;" What is rational thinking? Is it being able to dicide an answer/responce according to a situation? If so, many many animals can do this. Humans can write music... some Birds sing special songs for the ones they love when they are trying to get a partner.... Humans can use their abillities efficiantly and according to whatever they need to do... Some female spiders can shoot perfume out of their ass and attract men... Many 4-legged clan dog-like animals leave behind the weak or wounded, or the weak or wounded even choose to stay behind because of the travel.... Penguin Females choose a mate they need and if he isnt good enough, she devorces him and finds another man, sometimes the male even helps.... Humans dont like being opressed or hurt.. Dogs cry when they are in a cage for too long... Animals at the zoo dont like their cages at all because they can sence something is WRONG.

I can go on and on comparing similarities from animals to humans. But it would take for ever.

HYPOTETICALLY: If a robot was developed that could think and feel... Like in the movies... Would it be a human? Humans define themselves by their ability to think and feel emoitons/stimuli...

If there was a mechanical man who could do this aswell, the word human would have to be redifined and would become obsolete. Human power would now be obdolete because they are no longer "humans" they are part of a super-union between robots-that-can-feel and themselves.. I can imagine how terribly confusing it would be for the new flesh-clan. But they would have to officially say:

"You are equal to me"

I love it....

This hasnt happened.. Maybe it will never happen.... But I love to talk about it.


I am so interesting in odd things, I am odd... Raymond is rusted.. But odd... That robot in my profile pic is very odd.. and sad... :(

[MrDoom]

I see a world where humans see themselves as no greater then a blade of grass...

You sound almost like a primitivist. Human meatbags are able to actively change their environment. Plants sit and photosynthesize, and not much else.


If one was to define if a robot would get rights.. One would have to define what a human is and why we should get rights... And what an animal is and why they should get rights. I have seen animals do amazing things, build entire communities, woo each other, set bounderies, communicate with humans, even kill themselves when their population became so great that the young ones will die from lack of food to animal ratio.... Should they be concidered humans because they do such things?
Those things are basic functions of life. Living things grow, develop, and reqroduce; alongside having basic mechanisms in place to protect those initiatives.


Humans claim to be able to build great things... So can The Octopus and the birds and the beavers and the spiders and so many animals that love a nice dwelling/sleeping place.
And yet human meatbag constructs are of such a magnitude above the constructs of spiders and this octopus you mention that it is of a radically differing nature. A large enough quantitative change can cause a qualitative change.


Humans say "Well we can think rationally&#33;" What is rational thinking? Is it being able to dicide an answer/responce according to a situation?
Human thought is separated from all other animal intelligence in that a human shows signs of being self-aware, having a certain sense feedback that allows one to notice that they are sensing in the first place.


If so, many many animals can do this. Humans can write music... some Birds sing special songs for the ones they love when they are trying to get a partner.... Humans can use their abillities efficiantly and according to whatever they need to do... Some female spiders can shoot perfume out of their ass and attract men... Many 4-legged clan dog-like animals leave behind the weak or wounded, or the weak or wounded even choose to stay behind because of the travel.... Penguin Females choose a mate they need and if he isnt good enough, she devorces him and finds another man, sometimes the male even helps.... Humans dont like being opressed or hurt.. Dogs cry when they are in a cage for too long... Animals at the zoo dont like their cages at all because they can sence something is WRONG.
All of those meatbag traits you describe are self-initiated and self-aware. Animals do these things out of instinct.


HYPOTETICALLY: If a robot was developed that could think and feel... Like in the movies... Would it be a human? Humans define themselves by their ability to think and feel emoitons/stimuli...
A human meatbag is an instantiation of an advanced race of primates who are carbon-based and have 21 chromosomes as its internal data. Ferrous constructs no matter their complexity of data processing and feedback, are not humans.


If there was a mechanical man who could do this aswell, the word human would have to be redifined and would become obsolete. Human power would now be obdolete because they are no longer "humans" they are part of a super-union between robots-that-can-feel and themselves..
This makes no sense. What would make humans "obsolete"? The definition of obsolecence is &#39;out of date as to be no longer useful&#39;.


I am so interesting in odd things, I am odd... Raymond is rusted.. But odd... That robot in my profile pic is very odd.. and sad... :(
:huh:

[Ihavenoidea]

LOL TO YOUR WHOLE POST...

Not even gonna tackle some of the things because it is 2 compleatly opposite sides tackling each other with an iron will.

But either way we are animals that run off of instinct. The fact that humans are grandiosed so much is nothing but a weak attempt to assure our status in the world as dominant... And that can be broken down into we want one sex to be dominant, and one race to be dominant, and one charictaristic to be dominant, and one fucking human to be dominant. Everyone is fighting for this position. We trample each other and kill each other to help assure our status in society. The ways we kill then or plan to get dominance is very complex in thought, yea. But still, the idea is primitive and rediculous.

With animals it is about instict as much is it is about who is best in a human society. Applicants to who are best must have:

An income over a billion dollars

Must be white or have a lot of access to oil

Male

And must support the conservative agenda.

We are so ...... BLEH when we break our society down.

Just a case of dog eat dog. Rat race to see who can get the most of everything. Some humans have benifitted the world immencly, but they didnt think about their superiority above all and everything else. Like Marx and Engels, for example.

These transhumanists comming out are just as dangerous as resource-depleating capitalists. They dont care. I actually spoke to this rightwinger who sounds terribly like you, love... Actually... really really close, I will think about what set that thought off all of a sudden.. It was something.. A perticular something.... Anyhoo...

We have a machine to do everything nowadays, even help us walk. For medicine, for information, for transporation, to build cars automaticlly do things at a cirtain time or in a cirtain way.

I heard that Tims wants to make"Automatic registers" that are like express check outs and the customer just presses the options for the order and pays via credit card, quick, easy no humans. automatic registers = less staff is needed to work the shifts.

The people have to make the order, but they will prolly find a machine to start constructing sandwhiches and soup and coffee really soon.

It is true that they need humans to oporate them, but it seriously makes many people obsolete because robots dont need pay or breaks. It is only a matter of time before we just consume, and robots make the products to be consumed. Another way of assuring money and success to one person. This is a bit farfetched but some humans will still be needed, like doctors, nurses, people to moniter to machines, lawyers, judges, cirtain industry workers, real estate agesnts (unless that goes &#39;E&#39; too...), so on and so on... Just a theory and a hypothetical example. I am just making the point that robots are indeed more efficiant and useful then humans.

Watch "The Monkey People" and replace the monkies with robots and you will get what I am saying compleatly.

-Bella

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 12:42 am

Not really, I won one and have repaired it several times. There isn&#39;t much to know. That you believe they have some secret intellect to them shows how little you know.

Which just goes to show your supiriority over machines, oh great one&#33; Yo can fix your bread-cruster, you have defeated the most powerful of mechanics&#33;

*Bows again*
You&#39;re the one who posited the toaster as an intelligent, capable being - not me.




According to you that makes me smarter. Unless of course there is actually a lot of untapped intellect in tramp smegma of which us "mere mortals" are not aware, with your fruit loop ideas this wouldn&#39;t surprise me.

I am not sure there.. *Starts tlaking to Jazzys toaster* It says you stuck screwdrivers in undisierable places..... Not very smart.. But I am sure this toaster is far more advanced then me, a lowly techno-communist... Please be merciful&#33; I regret to inform you, on behalf of the leftist movemen (or the parts of it capable of rational thought) that you are not a communist and most likely have never been one. What you are talking of is some idiotic pipedream world where the tools have been developed to be greater than the user - a rather preposterous idea and one I can safely ignore on the grounds that it is insane.





No,no,no,no, NO. Very different things for a start capitalism is not in the interest of all of humanity and is therefore antithetical to human-supremacy.

Lol, you like ya leatherz dunt ya? Mmm. Especially my nice leather gimp suit :ph34r:




And how would you define a life, exactly? Should I just go to the next Storm Front Barbecue and spread my legs for the nearest bonehead?

Lol, I am sure you will enjoy it&#33; And if you are reffering to me, because pf all these claims that me and my boyfriend are sexually intimate, we might just have sex later tonight for the first time... Just to confirm everyone&#39;s constant accusations of me and him getting nasty. But I can introduce you to some of his friends whenever you are in town if you would wish, oh great Mortal Lord. Oh brilliant, I&#39;ve taken the piss out of you for your idiot boyfriend and now I get oblique threats that his gang of neo-fascist chums are going to beat me up. Why don&#39;t you amble over to Storm Front where your Aryan Robot theory will be lent all the credence that it isn&#39;t here.





Why would I want to do that? Flesh and bone is weak it can so easily be augmented.

Just goes to show the weakness of humans. Life and strength is only skin deep... However Iron... Iron is hard and efficiant ^-^ Ah, finally a point worth debating. Firstly: Iron is useful in some areas, but certainly not in others for a start anything that would make it oxidise - as J pointed out. Also if you&#39;re suggesting that robots are better than people because they are harder then you are sadly mistaken - when was the last time a human was utterly buggered by passing through an EM field? Also could you explain to me how Iron can be efficient by nature - it is after all simply inert without human help. I think that flesh could easily be more efficient at sustaining a lifeforms especially if engineered to photosynthesise (if that is at all possible, science wizards?).



Sure, Mortal Lord ^-^ I am friends with the comrades on this board who are not ignorent, and who are also unliked by many on here... And then the spambots because they are computers and I am the famous (YES THATS RIGHT I AM..) THE ROBOT WHISPERER&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; And this is why it is useless debating with you, you&#39;re clearly a few cards short of a deck. Fuck that, you&#39;re a deck of cards short of a deck. If we were to continue using the deck of cards analogy for your sanity you would be about half a joker and the bridge rules summary.



I reported this because of that word... lol, Did you really? I&#39;m still waiting for the moderator action.
I was absolutly fine with everything else you said, in fact it was humorous&#33; You took me way too seriously and people tell ME to lighten up&#33; I&#39;m afraid these "people" (if they are indeed such and not, as I suspect, constructs of your mind brought on by your almost permanent hallucinogenic trip) were wrong, if you got any more light you would float in helium.


Lol&#33;

-BELLA AND RAYMOND THE ROBOT (HUGE LETTERS FOR DRAMATIC ENDING) How droll <_<