My history class

[redcannon]

well, this whole thing in school just pisses the fuck out of me. every class i end up arguing with cappie *****es about it. they tell me communism could never work, just look at the USSR.

i tell them the USSR wasn't communist, they laugh at me and all join together in calling me a commie (which i am, but they mean it as a derrogotory term)

can i please get some salvation? someone please give me some points of argument about how the USSR was not at all even close to communism. particularly the Stalinist aspect of it.

[welshred]

I know exactly how you feel. I also explain to them that the USSR wasnt communist and get the reply "whatever". I would also be grateful for a few good points to tell them.

[Whitten]

Tell them they have no right to comment on issued which they have not the slightest clue about.

[redcannon]

they'll just point to their state-funded text books and say "look here, it was the communist party that ruled the USSR."

its a stupid argument on their part, but one guy actually told me they were clearly communist because they said that they were communist. that was also his argument on why china was communist.

i hate stupid teenage cappie fucks. hate them.

[welshred]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 07:54 pm

i hate stupid teenage cappie fucks. hate them.
Me too. They think they know every thing, when quite clearly the dont. When you prove them wrong they tell us to read the history books! Pff they need to read em themselves. Dick heads.

[luxemburg89]

i have fun doing this - staying quiet until they say something bigotted or i look for a flaw in an arguement then i attack them with insults and tell them capitalism is fucked. I use long words which confuses them - for all they know i could be making up the words.

[Janus]

There are plenty of critical threads about the USSR, all you have to do is search for them.

[Ander]

In my AP Euro history class we're also discussing "Stalin's Soviet Russia" and the Second World War. I just shut down the idiots with the argument that the Soviet Union was state capitalist, not communist. I even got one of them to agree with me.

The fact that power did not lie in the hands of the workers and instead was tightly held by a number of party beauracrats is hard evidence as to why the USSR was not communist nor socialist.

[Question everything]

I don't have history yet (and last time I did I wasn't a commie), my advice, just tell them to shut up, since when did they listen to reason?

BTW Jello, Nice DP

[Fawkes]

The fact that the USSR was neither stateless nor classless is a sufficient enough argument to prove that it was not communist. Socialist, on the other hand, is an entirely different argument.

[Ander]

The fact that the USSR was neither stateless nor classless is a sufficient enough argument to prove that it was not communist.

True. This is probably the most obvious argument ever. The only problem is that most ignorant people think communism is "when everybody is equal and gets paid the same." They simply haven't bothered to actually understand at least the basics of what they're saying which makes them look incredibly ignorant and stupid in front of people who do know.


Socialist, on the other hand, is an entirely different argument.

Not really...Some people like to debate this idea a lot but the fact that the old ruling elite was replaced by a new one (the Party) is evidence enough that the Soviet Union wasn't very socialist. Yes, the general living conditions improved and there were advancements in medicine, education, technology, etc. but the workers were not in control.


BTW Jello, Nice DP

Thanks :)

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 11:34 pm
The fact that power did not lie in the hands of the workers and instead was tightly held by a number of party beauracrats is hard evidence as to why the USSR was not communist nor socialist.
um how so? Agriculture was collectivized and factories were run by the Soviets and the workers' living standards were elevated to the highest point. The party was simply a tool of the working class to maintain power.

[Question everything]

Originally posted by LeftyHenry+March 09, 2007 12:51 am--> (LeftyHenry @ March 09, 2007 12:51 am)
[email protected] 08, 2007 11:34 pm
The fact that power did not lie in the hands of the workers and instead was tightly held by a number of party beauracrats is hard evidence as to why the USSR was not communist nor socialist.
um how so? Agriculture was collectivized and factories were run by the Soviets and the workers' living standards were elevated to the highest point. The party was simply a tool of the working class to maintain power. [/b]
When Lenin took over the party was 1/600, he had the belief that the party must rule on behalf of the people (most of Russia was illiterate, and a de-centralized gouvernment cannot survive under the threat of invasion.) but no matter how you justify it the party was at least some what elitist... of course that is the understand I got from a capitalist book, correct me if I am wrong.

[Aurora]

um how so? Agriculture was collectivized and factories were run by the Soviets and the workers' living standards were elevated to the highest point. The party was simply a tool of the working class to maintain power
Thats not even an attempt at marxism,the soviets were what the workers use to maintain the DoP and the party are the ones to guide them.
Btw the soviets were non existent ;)

And Jello dont use state-capitalist theory ist rubbish

[FOREVER LEFT]

Read and mention to your class George Orwell's book Homage to Catalonia.

Point out that AmeriKKKa and other nations invaded the Soviet Union during the early days of the revolution. Mention this quote:

The boys of Capital, they also chortle in their martinis about the death of socialism. The word has been banned from polite conversation. And they hope that no one will notice that every socialist experiment of any significance in the twentieth century -- without exception -- has either been crushed, overthrown, or invaded, or corrupted, perverted, subverted, or destabilized, or otherwise had life made impossible for it, by the United States. Not one socialist government or movement -- from the Russian Revolution to the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, from Communist China to the FMLN in Salvador -- not one was permitted to rise or fall solely on its own merits; not one was left secure enough to drop its guard against the all-powerful enemy abroad and freely and fully relax control at home.
It's as if the Wright brothers' first experiments with flying machines all failed because the automobile interests sabotaged each test flight. And then the good and god-fearing folk of the world looked upon this, took notice of the consequences, nodded their collective heads wisely, and intoned solemnly: Man shall never fly.

http://www.killinghope.org/

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by FOREVER [email protected] 08, 2007 05:16 pm
Read and mention to your class George Orwell's book Homage to Catalonia.

Point out that AmeriKKKa and other nations invaded the Soviet Union during the early days of the revolution. Mention this quote:

The boys of Capital, they also chortle in their martinis about the death of socialism. The word has been banned from polite conversation. And they hope that no one will notice that every socialist experiment of any significance in the twentieth century -- without exception -- has either been crushed, overthrown, or invaded, or corrupted, perverted, subverted, or destabilized, or otherwise had life made impossible for it, by the United States. Not one socialist government or movement -- from the Russian Revolution to the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, from Communist China to the FMLN in Salvador -- not one was permitted to rise or fall solely on its own merits; not one was left secure enough to drop its guard against the all-powerful enemy abroad and freely and fully relax control at home.
It's as if the Wright brothers' first experiments with flying machines all failed because the automobile interests sabotaged each test flight. And then the good and god-fearing folk of the world looked upon this, took notice of the consequences, nodded their collective heads wisely, and intoned solemnly: Man shall never fly.

http://www.killinghope.org/
Is that from Orwell's book? Sounds like a good read, imma pick it up.

Redcannon, I think everyone here has basically gave you some good points to research and refute for your arguement. I would just suggest especially pointing out that True Communism has never really been attempted.

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by Political_Chucky+March 09, 2007 06:59 am--> (Political_Chucky @ March 09, 2007 06:59 am)
FOREVER [email protected] 08, 2007 05:16 pm

Read and mention to your class George Orwell's book Homage to Catalonia.

Point out that AmeriKKKa and other nations invaded the Soviet Union during the early days of the revolution. Mention this quote:

The boys of Capital, they also chortle in their martinis about the death of socialism. The word has been banned from polite conversation. And they hope that no one will notice that every socialist experiment of any significance in the twentieth century -- without exception -- has either been crushed, overthrown, or invaded, or corrupted, perverted, subverted, or destabilized, or otherwise had life made impossible for it, by the United States. Not one socialist government or movement -- from the Russian Revolution to the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, from Communist China to the FMLN in Salvador -- not one was permitted to rise or fall solely on its own merits; not one was left secure enough to drop its guard against the all-powerful enemy abroad and freely and fully relax control at home.
It's as if the Wright brothers' first experiments with flying machines all failed because the automobile interests sabotaged each test flight. And then the good and god-fearing folk of the world looked upon this, took notice of the consequences, nodded their collective heads wisely, and intoned solemnly: Man shall never fly.

http://www.killinghope.org/
Is that from Orwell's book? Sounds like a good read, imma pick it up.[/b]
No that's from William Blum's book Killing Hope which i am in the middle of reading.

[norwegian commie]

I would reply that the only ones that called sovjet communist was USA because of their lack of ideologic understanding.

Sovjetunion was aware of itselvf not being communist. That is why they called themselves the union of socialist sovjet republics.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by norwegian [email protected] 10, 2007 12:53 pm
Sovjetunion was aware of itselvf not being communist. That is why they called themselves the union of socialist sovjet republics.
No, Socialist and Communist are both terms that are not only interchangeable in Marx's writings, but also has and have been used interchangeably by Marxists, and the Soviet Communists, hence why they would call the USSR, the USSR, and I don't see how trying to make a semantic argument, is proving they didn't call themselves Communist, and or were not Communist.