Welfare

[RGacky3]

I was talking to Thine Stalin on the topic of welfare. He is against it becouse he says that the majority shoul'nt suffer becouse of one person, and that even the handicapt could find a place in society, and those who can't.......well, sucks for them. He says that an ant society is a perfect one, (TS please correct me if I said any thing wrong), Now I respect his views. However, I believe that handicapt people are part of society and that they should be given welfare, I think that every one should support every one else even if they are not a reasorce of society. I think that no welfare is unethical. What do you think,? I also want to know what the stalinists think about this subject?

(I'm talking about handicapt welfare, even though I am in support of just about all types of welfare)

[Ymir]

As a general rule, those that take from the whole and give nothing back are traitors. If someone is willing to share his own food and house with someone it should be allowed but I would not make it government policy. Ants are successful because they can operate as a single organism, which I am in favour of. Every citizen should get medical care, housing, and protection from the government, but only if they are productive members of society. otherwise there would be a deficet in production and others would have to pick up the slack of the few ones that could not carry their own. Government and society is for those who can benefit others through working with others.

[marxistdisciple]

It depends I think, I mean disabled people can still do jobs that don't require the use of certain parts of their body. If someone is born disabled, should they be left to die because they don't produce, or if they get run over by someone in a car and it isn't their fault? I think if it is people who choose not to work even when they can should get no assistance from the state, but I think people genuinely disadvantaged in ways that aren't their fault should be helped at least survive with basic needs.

[RGacky3]

My uncle who lives in Norway used to be a mechanic, he then got back problems and could no longer continue his job, the government payed him his old salery, and payed for training for him to learn a computer job, now he works with computers. Personally I see this as a great Idea, (Damn I love Norway). As for people who don't WANT to work, well no walefare for them. What about those who are parelized, or cripled, personally I think that those people would love to work if they could but they can't so they should get welfare. Ymir what do you think should happen with those that can't work? remember ants don't think or have feelings or any morals, or any real desire to live (apart form instint) humans do

[Ymir]

If someone is paralyzed below the neck they could still do computer work, studies have been conducted with monkies that effectively let them control a computer cursor with their brain, we just need to let people volunteer for human experimentation with this technology.

[RedSovietCCCP]

Fuck no, there should be no welfare. I used to work at a store and see these parasites with all there fucking kids, feeding off welfare. There should be little exception. THATS RIGHT YOU FUCKING LIBERALS I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Borincano]

With welfare, there should be stiff regulation that should be carried out efficiently.

Welfare can be a tool to control a population of people.

[Blane K]

the idea of welfare is a fucking joke. The only thing the goverment should provide for the unemployed is job placement. Everyone can work if your handicap and can not even work at a computer then go to your relatives and if u cant go to a relative than the goverment shall decide what to do no welfare for the lazy.

[RGacky3]

Quote: from RedSovietCCCP on 2:23 am on June 27, 2002
Fuck no, there should be no welfare. I used to work at a store and see these parasites with all there fucking kids, feeding off welfare. There should be little exception. THATS RIGHT YOU FUCKING LIBERALS I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YAY our comrade is back. First of all taking some one parelized from the neck down and telling him to find a job, even a computer job is horribally unreasonable. I agree some one who tokes up all day and expects welfare should eat shit and die. however I think that temporarily handycapt people should be payed for untill they heal, those perminantly handicapt in my opinion should be payed for training for a job that they could REASONABLY do, or just get payed for. I assure you most handicapt people would give anything to be able to work, they are not lazy. I don't think that the government should leave the burdon with the family, even though they would obviously take it, they who community though taxes should help these people. Any way Welcome back comrade Redsolvietcccp.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Blane K on 1:49 am on June 27, 2002
the idea of welfare is a fucking joke. The only thing the goverment should provide for the unemployed is job placement.There aren't always enough jobs to go around. There are a ton of welfare mothers who want to work but can't.

If a person takes from society but gives nothing back not because this person is lazy but because this person is disabled to the point where they can't contribute, they should be taken care of. Does a person deserve to starve because of a major disability?

Lindsay

[RedSovietCCCP]

Thank you comrade rgacky!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ymir]

This whole topic is circumstancial. In the anarchistic capitalist society of today, people may not be able to find jobs but in a controlled economy they would immedietly be provided training for job placement after a break period for the injured.

[MJM]

In a socialist/communist society unemployment would be a thing of the past. Unemployment is a way to dictate the value of our labour in favour of the capitalist. We wouldn't need to work extra time to create surplus value for the capis. So we could work say, 30 hours a week instead of 50-60. If we worked for 30 hours that means there will be room for the unemployed to move in to fill the extra time need to provide products for society. We may even only have to work 20 hours to share the work load equally.

As far as providing for the sick and disabled, of course we should. We're lucky to be healthy so it's the least we can do.

In todays society welfare is paid for by the workers as we pay most of the tax, so we're essentially subsidising the capis to keep our wages low.

[ILoveShrub]

I beleive that those who could work and choose to not don't deserve welfare. I also do not believe in charity.As I see it charity grew during the industrial revolution when the tycoons decided to better their image by giving to the poor. This is were I beleive welfare stemmed from. I think that if the business owners would have paid their workers sufficient wages these people would not have grown attached to hand outs.And the work ethic would have survived.

[marxistdisciple]

I don't believe in giving welfare to people like my lazy pot head mates who choose not to work....I think they should get off their backsides and learn something about the world. But then, I do support giving some kind of support to people that can't get a job for a reason such as a disability, or nothing been available that they have the skills to do.

Of course in a future ideal society, people could be quickly retrained, and would want to work, because they could easily get the skills they needed to do the job they wanted. People would be more motivated, as they would feel they had a greater impact on their life.

Aldous Huxley predicted that as the ecomomy became more cutthroat, and the population increased, mental illness would increase, as people found it harder to deal with the world they lived in. they say 1 in 5 Americans are effected by depression at some point in their lives now. I believe we should be able to work efficiently, without overworking employees, or working hours which are unreasonable. After all, increases in technology have already removed a lot of the needs for labour.

We will also be able to remove some of the service industries, such as Accounting, Stock Broking, Gambling, Loan companies, Insolvency services, etc. etc. as none of these things will need to exist anymore. In fact, as people will never have to worry about choosing a job that pays well enough to live off (because they all will) people will choose the jobs they enjoy most, or have most skills at. This will increase the productivity of the community. People will of course sometimes have to do jobs they don't like while they gain experience, train etc. but the difference will mean that people will all have the means to make what they want of their life, even if they aren't in the right situation to start with.
The community will not be wasteful, as people will produce and take what they need.

[RGacky3]

Do all of you agree with free healthcare, and education?

I do

[Borincano]

RGacky3,

I do as well. Though, it has to be applied intelligently. Also, it has to go with the culture of the region, it's ethics and mentalities towards those two.

A poor country, such as Cuba, has done great things with it. Canada and Great Britain have not.

[maxfish17]

Borincano - The canadian systems of health care and education are fine. The problem is that the provinces don't want to fund these public systems because they'd rather cut taxes and then blame the federal government for not giving them enough money.

About Welfare - In this capitalist world, some are born with lots of money from inheritance and some are born with nothing. Welfare for the poor is no worse than making money from inheritance and greed. It helps level out the classes, making it a bit more equal.

However, if someone has the ability and the opportunity to work, they should get a job.

- Max

[Borincano]

maxfish17,

I agree with you on Welfare, but that the Canadian Health Care system is "just fine," I have to disagree. It might of been a few years ago, but many hospitals have been closed, there are less doctors than they used to be, and many have to go to the Vet or the USA to get serious operations or risk waiting up to 2 years. The situation with the provinces is the main cause, of course.