various sects of communism

[man in the red suit]

I just wanted to hear what You guys have to say about all of the 'fuck you, you fascist in disguise" shit that's been going around. I know there are many sects of socialism like Leninism, stalinism, Marxism, Maoism, utopian, independent, authoritarian, etc etc.... But what would you guys actually consider as socialism at all? which of these do you consider to be contrary to the beliefs of socialism? Why do you hate that particular kind of socialism? and why can't we all just get along?
There are a lot of National bolshevik haters as well as authoritarian stalinist haters. But why. What are the utmost specific reasons. I disagree with anarchy and anyone who thinks that zionism is fascism, but I am willing to listen to them and understand what they are trying to tell me. A lot of you guys just continuously attack each other. I know I have had my share of "you stupid fascist" attacks. But can't we just stop telling each other to fuck ourselves and what not? What is with the hate. Can we not all get along?

[Ymir]

Hey we are all individuals so when someone says "fuck you, stalinist fascist!" It is up to us to ask why they think that, not to return the agression. Not having blind rage comments would be nice, but knowing how to respond is just as good.

[man in the red suit]

hmm... I see. I agree with you.

[peaccenicked]

From A Prayer to My Daughter
By William B Yeats.

My mind, because the minds that I have loved,
The sort of beauty that I have approved,
Prosper but little, has dried up of late,
Yet knows that to be choked with hate
May well be of all evil chances chief.
If there's no hatred in a mind
Can never tear the linnet from the leaf.

An intellectual hatred is the worst,
So let her think opinions are accursed.
Have I not seen the loveliest woman born
Out of the mouth of Plenty's horn,
Because of her opinionated mind
Barter that horn and every good
By quiet natures understood
For an old bellows full of angry wind?''

[Rob]

The only "socialists" I'm not willing to compromise with are Stalinists and National Bolsheviks. Stalinists because Stalin was a mass murderer who didn't do much to help the cause of working-class self determination. National Bolsheviks because they're nazis.

[Mazdak]

I say the same as Man in red suit, why are we fighting each other? National Bolsheviks are obviously the enemy being extreme right wing. However comparing Stalin to Hitler is obsurd. Stalin wasnt a saint but he wasn't Satan's son either and alot of the stalinists arguments are because of how much everyone seems to hate stalin. He preserved the Soviet Union at a time when many others probably couldn't.

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Mazdak on 9:59 pm on June 23, 2002
I say the same as Man in red suit, why are we fighting each other? National Bolsheviks are obviously the enemy being extreme right wing. However comparing Stalin to Hitler is obsurd. Stalin wasnt a saint but he wasn't Satan's son either and alot of the stalinists arguments are because of how much everyone seems to hate stalin. He preserved the Soviet Union at a time when many others probably couldn't.

I agree compleatly

[peaccenicked]

Stalin was a counter-revolutionary. Fascism is counter-revolutionary violence against the working class.
Stalin was worse because he killed all of the Bolsheviks.
He did not preserve the Soviet Union but drove towards barbarism. Nationalist Bolshevism is a fascist ideology that seeks an alliance with brown shirt racists.
Have no illusions that these people are in anyway comrades of ours. Che would have despised them.

[Ymir]

Russians cried at Stalin's funeral. Yes stalin made people die by the millions but that was because everyone was in the freezing outdoors chopping wood and mining coal so that they would not be slaughtered by the nazis. Don't hate him for ordering people to their deaths but hate men like gorbechev for making all of their deaths in vain by instilling doubt and ending what so many had worked and died for.

[peaccenicked]

''Today all over independent Ukraine there are discoveries of mass murder graves in the suburbs of cities (such as Bykivna in Kiev), and near all the KGB (NKVD) secret police stations throughout Ukraine.''
Grugevsky.

[Edelweiss]

I agree that this recent leninism-council communism-anarchism debate, and especially how emotionally it was debated, was very needless. We really shoudn't concentrate so much on such theoretical differences within us socialists. But it's very important though that we keep out left-rigt hybrids like the national-bolsheviks.

[peaccenicked]

I apologize, I do not take to be called a fascist too kindly. I think it might be better to agree to disagree
and stay out of Vox's way. I just give as good as I get sometimes. It is better probably to cool it for some time.

[Mazdak]

Ha, good to see some support hear(gacky)

Ymir- excellent post