Log in

View Full Version : Coucil Communism and Bolshevism



vox
19th June 2002, 23:24
(I received this from a mailing list I'm on and thought some here might find it interesting.)

"Suppose the central leadership is able to distribute all of what
has been produced in a righteous way. Even then the fact
remains, that the producers don't have at their disposal the
machinery of production. This machinery is not theirs, it is one
used to dispose of them. The inevitable consequence is that
those groups that oppose the existent leadership will be
oppressed with force. The central economic power is in the
hands of those who, at the same time, exercise the political
power. Any opposition thinking in a different way about political
and economic problems will be oppressed with any possible
means. This means that instead of an association of free and
equal producers, as defined by Marx, there is a house of
correction as no one has seen before."

This quotation, freely translated from a seventy year old text,
explains that the relations of production as they were developed
in Russia after October 1917, have nothing to do with what Marx
and Engels understood as communism. At the time the
just-quoted pamphlet was published the terror of the thirties lay
ahead. It was only prophecy. There was not any political event
which had caused this criticism of Soviet society; this criticism
arose from an economic analysis. On this base the rising
Stalinism was understood as the political expression of an
economic system that belonged to a state capitalist exploitation,
and this counted not only for Stalinism.

The just-mentioned text was the work of a group whose authors
belonged to a current that arose in the years after the First World
War and won permanent meaning. This current was
characterized by a sharp criticism of social democracy as well as
Bolshevism. It was a current that carefully analyzed the daily
experiences of the working class, and so it came to new ideas
about the class struggle. The current saw social democracy and
Bolshevism as the "old labour movement" ; the contradiction of
this was "a new movement of the workers."

Among the earliest representatives of this current were German
and Dutch Marxists who had always stood on the left wing of
social democracy. In the course of their years long permanent
struggle against reformism they became more and more critical
of social democracy. The best known of this current were two
Dutchmen, Anton Pannekoek (1872-1960) and Herman Gorter
(1864-1927) and also two Germans, Karl Schroder (1884-1950)
and Otto Ruhle (1874-1943). Later the much younger Paul
Mattick (1904-1980) became one of its most important theorists.

Pannekoek's ideas drew attention shortly after the turn of the
century for some Marxist reflections on philosophy. From 1906
up to the outbreak of the First World War he worked in Germany.
First for a year as a teacher in the SPD party school then after he
was threatened with expulsion from Germany, he worked in
Bremen and wrote articles for different left papers. While in
Bremen Pannekoek witnessed a very important wildcat strike by
the dockers there. This experience influenced his ideas about
the class struggle, and his interpretation of Marxism as well. As
a consequence he rejected Bolshevik theories about
organization, strategy and policy at a very early date.

Otto Ruhle never identified himself with a current in the German
labour movement; however, he never neglected the general
interests of the working class. Like Pannekoek he rejected
Bolshevism in the 1920's and was one of the first to argue that
the proletarian revolution was something completely different
from a bourgeois revolution and as a consequence required
completely different forms of organization. For this reason he
rejected the fallacy that the proletarian revolution should be the
case of a party. "Revolution" he said "is not a party affair;
politically and economically it is the affair of the whole working
class."

These ideas, which would become far more detailed, were
characteristic of the current which became known as Council
Communism. Council Communism, from the beginning of the
twenties was based on the experiences of the Russian and
German Revolutions, and defended the councilists' democracy
and rejected the power of the party. It sought to distinguish itself
from Bolshevism and the Bolsheviks, and those who claimed
the name communist. Nevertheless at its origin it was very far
away from the opinions it later developed.

2

In the beginning Council Communism was hardly different from
Leninism. Ruhle however did not regard the parties of the Third
International as communist ones. A few years later the Council
Communists were to distinguish themselves much more clearly
from Bolshevism. The so-called October Revolution finished
Czarism and put an end to feudal relations and cleared the way
for capitalist ones.

The Council Communists went further. They pointed to the fact
that an economy such as the Russian one, based on wage
labour , that is to say an economy where the labour force is a
commodity, wants nothing more than the production of surplus
value and the exploitation of the workers; It doesn't matter
whether the surplus value goes to private capitalists or to the
state as the proprietor of the means of production. The Council
Communists remembered that Marx had taught that
nationalization of the means of production has nothing to do with
socialism. The Council Communists pointed to the fact that in
Russia, production obeyed the same laws that exist in classical
private capitalism. Exploitation can only come to an end - so said
Marx - when wage labour no longer exists. The Council
Communists explained, referring to Moscow, what communism
was not. The differences between Council Communism and
Bolshevism became clearer and more complete.



3

What has been said before should not be understood as
meaning that Council Communism is a special critique of
Stalinism. It is a critique of Bolshevism in general. Council
Communists don't see Stalinism as a sort of `counter-revolution'
that deprived October of its fruits. Rather they see Stalinism just
as a fruit of this revolution, one that opened the door for
capitalism in Russia. Stalin was the heir of Bolshevism and the
Bolshevik Revolution. The development of this theory went
slowly, just as the case was with social development. In their
course the Council Communists changed their opinion and their
own practice. Initially in Germany and Holland Council
Communist parties were founded. This contradicted the opinion
of some like Ruhle who, as stated previously, thought that
parties were not an affair of the working class. Ruhle however,
saw these organizations as parties "of a completely new
character - a party that wasn't a party anymore."

Four years later in 1924 Ruhle spoke a different language. "A
party with a revolutionary character in the proletarian meaning of
the word" he said "is an absurdity. Its revolutionary character can
only be in a bourgeois meaning and only when the question is
the changing of feudalism into capitalism." He was perfectly right
and for this reason the so-called absurdities disappeared from
the proletarian theatre within ten years. There was little exception
and soon after the Second World War the expression was no
longer used.

At the same time the Council Communists grew up. They had
learned that the Russian Revolution was nothing more than a
bourgeois revolution and that the Russian economy was nothing
more than state capitalism. They had a clearer understanding of
things which were ripe for new research. Other things not
analyzed before, stood now in a clearer light.

The most important analysis in this respect was completed by
Pannekoek in 1938. He published a pamphlet on Lenin's
philosophy and produced a more profound analysis of
Bolshevism. Pannekoek pointed to the fact that Lenin's Marxism
was nothing more than a legend and contradicted real Marxism.
At the same time he explained the cause: "In Russia," he said
"the struggle against Czarism resembled in many aspects the
struggle against feudalism in Europe long before. In Russia
church and religion supported the existing power. For that
reason a struggle against religion was a social necessity." For
this reason what Lenin regarded as historical materialism hardly
distinguished itself from the French bourgeois materialism of
the 18th century, a materialism that, in those times , was used
as a spiritual weapon against the church and religion. In the
same way, that is to say, pointing to the similarities of the social
relations in Russia before the revolution and those in the
pre-revolutionary France, the Council Communists pointed to the
fact that Lenin and the members of his party claimed the name
Jacobins for themselves. They meant that their party in the
Russian bourgeois revolution had the same function as the
French Jacobins.

That Bolshevism in March 1918, only five months after October
1917, robbed the Soviets from their already minimalized power
was - as the Council Communists said - a logical consequence
of the October Revolution. Soviets were not suitable with a
system that was the political superstructure of state capitalist
productive relations.

What the council Communist movement mean by communism
is a completely different thing from that system. The dictatorship
of a party doesn't fit with social relations based on the abolition
of wage-labour and the end of exploitation of the workers. A
society in which the producers are free and equal can't be
something different from the democracy of the producers.


Originally published in Red & Black Notes #8, Spring 1999

Valkyrie
19th June 2002, 23:57
Great post. Counsil Communism has many parallel thoughts to anarchism in recognizing the centralism is just a consolidated form of capitalism with tight strictures.

peaccenicked
20th June 2002, 05:34
Quote: from vox on 11:24 pm on June 19, 2002
(I received this from a mailing list I'm on and thought some here might find it interesting.)

"Suppose the central leadership is able to distribute all of what
has been produced in a righteous way. Even then the fact
remains, that the producers don't have at their disposal the
machinery of production.
Very dodgey thinking:'Centralisation means automatically alienation'. That is a profoundly undemocratic opinion. It is anti parliamentarian cretinism. The majority will always be represented through a centre. That is a political fact.
OK comrade enjoy your utopianism, but I really hope that stays a minority position.

vox
20th June 2002, 12:40
That's right, p, keep it up. You simply dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with your fascism, oops, I mean Leninism as "utopian." You're like the right-wingers in that regard, but that's not surprising--authoritarian types always do.

We've been through this before, and I still think you're not only silly and misguided but downright dangerous to the real Left. You're dismissed.

vox

Kez
20th June 2002, 12:49
what unity, u slag off leninism as fascism, vox fo guck ur self with your social democrat capitalist fuckers, YOU are the minority VOX, wake up you dozy ****.

You think you go a few blocks in new york you know anything about the socialist movement? and i suppose you count yourself as part of this movement, well my friend you are wrong, grow up for fucks sake, you cant slag off comrades then shout unity.

Rob
20th June 2002, 21:32
EVERYBODY STOP INSULTING EACH OTHER!!!!!!

That being said, I'd like to state my opinion on this issue. I believe both Council Communism and Leninism to be flawed. I believe that most Leninists are overly authoritarian, and that most Council Communists are too disorganized (forgive the generalizations). I believe in democracy that isn't necessarily totally centralized, but definitely more centralized than what is usually called Left/Council Communism.

vox
21st June 2002, 13:25
Kamo,

Fuck your "unity."

Clear enough?

vox

vox
21st June 2002, 13:30
Kamo,

One more thing:

Where's your unity with the Democratic Socialists? Or, as is so often the case with the dim, do you simply spit out "unity" whenever someone attacks your Stalinist principles?

vox

El Che
21st June 2002, 14:47
Now I got nothing against fights, I think they are quite natural and even healthy sometimes. But personaly the sort of personal abuse that your constantly using, Kamo, tends to through me off balance. You shouldnt talk to people like that and I dont think anyone here would let you talk like that and get away with it, just because your on the internet doesnt mean you should stop respecting people altogether. Say what you have to say and drop the "fuck you" "go fuck your self" etc. Its stupid, its unecessary its blatante lack of respect for others. Grow the fuck up.

Kez
21st June 2002, 16:39
this isnt anybody, and i dont even give insults out to anyone, im giving it to some scumbag called Vox who as she has proved has told me to fuck my unity
*shrugs*
not as though he does ought to be united with
ah well

Social Democrat = capitalist in disguise
Capitalist = Target for bringing down

the reason i slagged Vox off is due to the fact that he constantly tries to smash leninism and so forth into a pulp and that my friend is not constructive.
Im not even a fuckin leninists for christs sake, i would consider myself a trotskyist (hence the reason y the YFRC was international based not just in the UK, where it would have been so much easier for me to organise).

My apologies for swearing so much, but that **** deserves it.

vox
21st June 2002, 20:35
"constantly tries to smash leninism and so forth into a pulp and that my friend is not constructive. "

On the contrary, exposing Leninism as the fascist ideology it truly is (in that is places the State, represented by the Party, above the working class) is very constructive and necessary for a healthy, vibrant Left.

As I recall, Kamo, your early posts on this board were all about how Stalin wasn't such a bad guy, really. You're wrong, plain and simple. The mass killings were part of the overall economic strategy. The famine was a result of Stalinist policies, policies which exploited the peasant just like the capitalist exploits the worker.

I understand that defenders of Lenin and his rightful heir, Stalin, are not interested in helping the working class but only in establishing themselves in the position the capitalists currently hold, and I'll continue to call them on it.

Leninist=authoritarian collectivist. Certainly, Leninism has nothing to do with Marx.

vox

Michael De Panama
22nd June 2002, 00:15
Kamo, you have a really bad problem with giving unsupported claims. Now, you say that Vox is a capitalist in disguise. I know that Vox DID say that Leninism is fascism in disguise, but at least he explained himself. You should do the same. How the hell is democratic centralism, a system that does not give equal power to the population, closer to the ideal classless society that defines communism? Exactly how revolutionary is it? How far away is it from the capitalist class system? Communism should not strive towards flipping the social ladder around, it should burn down the fucking ladder. Concentrating power into one party divides society, regardless of justifications, and would inevitably lead to the "Oppressed vs. Oppressor" scenerio that exists in capitalism, fascism, and every other class system, which would then inevitably lead to revolution.

A "Social Democrat" is not a "Democratic Socialist", by the way.

Kez
22nd June 2002, 13:19
??
prove myself?
i thought i did by showing how Vox wants to destroy the left by just applying his own little brand of "socialism"
I dont give a fuck how much u dont like a branch of socialism, but u dont go round slagging off leninism just because of a few people say something on a silly little forum.
Most proper leninists dont use forums as they have things to do, unlike urself who just doesnt stfu.

Im not even supporting leninism, just defending it against unwarranted insults from uneducated individuals who think by making more posts some1 is gonna give them a ticket to revolution and they can take it and it will all be over.
Wake up man

peaccenicked
23rd June 2002, 01:21
Vox your anti centralism not just utopian but plain idiocy
and you have no basis in traditional democratic thinking
beyond the bag of cherries called 'federalism' that anarchists resort to when pushed. The dictatorship of the party is not an ideal of Bolshevism, It is you insists to live the lie. Unity with idiots is has no use for the working class. The presentation of ideas involves leadership. Every honest worker you come accross will feel conned if this was called an anti-leadership practice.
I feel conned. Why are you trying to con me.
I guess it is unprincipled popularism.
''But before charging uncritically down the road of networking, let us step back a moment to reflect on the bases of this term and conception. In the U.S., the term "network" seems to have become popular on the left after the arrival of the term in the computer information industry.(13) In the early days, less so now, the populace was subject to a lot of capitalist rhetoric about how the computer would enable horizontality, new kinds of decision-making, etc., via "networks" of various sorts. On the capitalist side it did enable the elimination of some kinds of middle management, but of course it hardly produced horizontality in decision-making.

Still, the term resonated among a left weary of the old centralist dogmas and practices. The left also seemed in large part to accept the idea of computers as aiding horizontality and decentralized, shared decision making. It seemed compatible with consensus-oriented group processes. (Parenthetically, we are not persuaded that all centralized decision-making is always bad; we suspect that the Zapatista army has its centralized aspects -- but these are moments within an overall structure of a participatory democracy.)''
You are so scared of the word centralism, that if anybody uses it favourably becomes part of your
horizontal abuse policy. I know many con men like you.
I am not going to make reality appear nicer than it is.
[source of quote] http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3843/monty4.html


(Edited by peaccenicked at 1:23 am on June 23, 2002)

Kez
23rd June 2002, 12:30
*applauds to comrade peaccenciked*
even tho we have not always agreed peaccenicked, this is one thing we can both agree with me, although it is clear u know the subject in much more depth

respect
comrade kamo