Socialism

[Coggeh]

Looking back at history ,things like feudalism , Roman empire and other empires which would have seem never ending at the time . Instead of looking at this the bourgeois historical way it seems like an evil has been replaced with a lesser evil everytime. Roman Empire -Chirstianity . Feudalism-capitalism ....- Socialism? Is it not an just a matter of time . With the crisis of capitalism soon becoming more frequent growth-recession-growth-recession people will soon strive for a planned socialism economy ,or am i missing something ?

[rouchambeau]

Revolution isn't inevitable, but the conditions that make it possible are.

[BobKKKindle$]

No. One aspect of Capitalism of which Marx was not aware is Cultural Hegemony. The ruling class has control of the institutions and mechanisms that allow they to control the ideas that shape the consciousness and ideology of the proletariat. This means that, even given material conditions that could result in class conflict, the ruling class could turn the proletariat towards an ideology that ensures a system of private property and class division through asserting non-class antagonisms as the focus of ideology - the obvious antagonisms in this case being National and Racial, manifested as Fascism. This was seen in the Weimar Republic in Germany where, although a revolutionary party existed and class consciousness could have been developed, Nazism was able to triumph.

[RebelDog]

One aspect of Capitalism of which Marx was not aware is Cultural Hegemony.

Marx was fully aware of this in all hitherto political systems and the present capitalism.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas." Karl Marx in the German Ideology

[BobKKKindle$]

He was not aware of the extent to which Cultural Hegemony could impede the development of class consciousness. As identified by Althusser (leading to the development of Structural Marxism) economic determinism does not adequately deal with all aspects of a complex post-indsturial society. That is not to diminish marx's analysis, its just a point to keep in mind.

[Hit The North]

As identified by Althusser (leading to the development of Structural Marxism) economic determinism does not adequately deal with all aspects of a complex post-indsturial society.

Are you arguing that Marx's theory is economic determinism, Bob?

I agree with the Dissenter. There is clear evidence from Marx's political writings that he recognized the capacity for ideological and cultural leadership appertaining to social classes engaged in class struggle. But quite rightly, according to the principles of Historical Materialism, his notion of the ideological level is rooted in and bounded by the relations of production. Hence: "The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas." as mentioned by Dissenter.

[BobKKKindle$]

According to Marx, political and social characteristics of society are formed by the mode of production under which Society operates. That is economic determinism - as I understand it. Through an adaption of Hegel's conception of society, he believed that ideas (ideology) were formed by the material conditions which we live - even if our ideology plays a role in our decision to enact changes on the material world, ideology does not, as Hegel though, exist in a metaphyiscal sphere seperate from Human existence, but is a construct determined by our environment and it must always originate there. What I wanted to point out to the original poster is that a worker may assume multiple ideologies following a change an entry of Capitalism into a period of crisis - some of which may not result in a radical change in society because they do not recognize class as the most important social variable. The reason for the existence of different ideology is cultural hegemony and a conflict of ideas.

[RebelDog]

Again back to the quote from 'The German Ideology'

The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas

Marx and Engels wrote that because they fully understood how crucial ruling class hegenomy was for the bourgeoise and their position in society and the proletariat and theirs.


According to Marx, political and social characteristics of society are formed by the mode of production under which Society operates. That is economic determinism - as I understand it.

Historical materialism is not in itself deterministic. Its a guideline for studying what drives history.


Through an adaption of Hegel's conception of society, he believed that ideas (ideology) were formed by the material conditions which we live - even if our ideology plays a role in our decision to enact changes on the material world, ideology does not, as Hegel though, exist in a metaphyiscal sphere seperate from Human existence, but is a construct determined by our environment and it must always originate there. What I wanted to point out to the original poster is that a worker may assume multiple ideologies following a change an entry of Capitalism into a period of crisis - some of which may not result in a radical change in society because they do not recognize class as the most important social variable. The reason for the existence of different ideology is cultural hegemony and a conflict of ideas.

What you say doesn't contradict the marxist line except that Marx was again fully aware of how the ruling class hegenomy can become eroded and change due to crisis, etc.

If a worker has ideas which are formed through material conditions, as we both understand, then we must determine that the material conditions at the time of the capitalist crisis are not correct for that worker to think along class lines to the extent he becomes revolutionary.

Ruling class ideas rule through their economic rule. If their economic rule is threatened then their cultural hegenomy must also be being threatened. Marx when talking about the dictatorship of the proletariat also talked about how the proletariat shall assume cultural hegenomy. He knew cultural hegenomy to be of the utmost importance in the class war. Its a cornerstone of marxist theory and it is easily recognised as a real concept when we ask ourselves, why aren't the proletariat all revolutionary? Why do many hold ideas that help precipitate their position as the exploited, producing class? Ruling class cultural hegenomy goes along way to helping us understand why these things occur. I am relieved Marx and Engels understood it because I would not understand it today if they hadn't.