Islam and Islamophobia

[Vargha Poralli]

In the latest isuue of ISReview (http://www.isreview.org/issues/52/islamophobia.shtml) this article is written. It debunks many myths that capitalist western media is generating about Islam in general. Could capitalists mind to discuss about it ?

[RedStarOverChina]

What a bunch of fools. Why is it any of their business when an archaic superstition is being criticized?

I, for one, am a communist and an islamophobic, a Christianophobic, a "budda-phobic" and a confucian-phobic.

And I'm damn proud of it, too.

[RedStarOverChina]

One more thing.

I usually don't have a problem with Trots, but why do they love religion so much?

[Ihavenoidea]

Almost every artical written on islam in magazines or nowdays some books are directed twords "De mistifying islamic myths" on what goes on in their enviroment.

They say women abuse, terrorism, suicide bombing support, femmecide, honor killings and born-forced indoctrination are not a part of islam or any kind of islamic teachings.

Meanwhile statistics, recent in-context quotes from the koran and the WAY THEY ACT (because actions speak louder then bullshit) say something compleatly differant.

And I would rather hear their actions sing, rather then some repetitive artical that come sout every time a muslim does something wrong in the name of their god and their religion.


Islam is compleatly counter progressive. Seeing as they want governments to be ruled by god. They can say all they want on how it isnt true but looking at every singl eislamic state it is. Everyone has a compleatly fanatical leader, ruling with a koran in their hand.


Such a religious right shouldnt be honored or even respected.

I dont agree with any religion. But in recent years islam has been the ones slaughtering in the name of their religion. Every religion has done it, but right now they are doing it. And with the revolution approaching, they are the enemy, not any inactive godcrazy groups.


This artical mentions allt he things other religions have done wrong. Meanwhile every year more then 100 women are killed by their own family in order to "protect the families honor" .

Meanwhile thousands of people die in suicide bombing. Girls are killed while they are still in their mother's woumb according to superstition.

Meanwhile kids that are forceful against the religion are beaten and sometimes killed.

Articals against islamaphobia dont even bring up those things. And this one compleatly ignored it.

So do I respect Deepa Kumar or the islamic religion? Hell no. Is it good for communism? Hell no.


Look at the actions of islam rather then the world of a muslim. the actions AND STATISTICS speak for themselves.


-bella

[Vargha Poralli]

1) This is not a justification or defense of Islam. It is just a counter argument to some western Media claims about Muslims in General which I find vaguely similar to claims that are generated by Hindu Fundamentalists here.


Articals against islamaphobia dont even bring up those things. And this one compleatly ignored it.

It actually brings those things. Read it before denouncing it.


Girls are killed while they are still in their mother's woumb according to superstition.

That was happenning in India (not only among Muslims but also Hindus and Christinas) and China(because of one child policy) and Religion is not the cause of it. It is the socio-economic conditions that causes it.


Islam is compleatly counter progressive.

No one is denying that. It is as much as Christinanity or Hinduism. But that should not put "Communists" in league with right wing Hindus or Christians.Hate the sin not the Sinner.



the actions AND STATISTICS speak for themselves.

Fine come up with it . Provide a source.

[RedStarOverChina]

That was happenning in India (not only among Muslims but also Hindus and Christinas) and China(because of one child policy) and Religion is not the cause of it. It is the socio-economic conditions that causes it.
There is little doubt that people, espcially young people and women ARE being killed because of superstition. Death by economic conditions is one thing, and death by religious fervour is another---they should not be mixed together to confuse the audience.


All I'm saying is, even if we can't yet conquer the economic conditions, at least get rid of religion!

By the way, even though you say this is NOT a defense for Islam but that of Muslims, you seem all too willing to defend Islam the religion (How it's NOT the cause of the death of girls)


But that should not put "Communists" in league with right wing Hindus or Christians.

Well, to clear things up, I think they should all go fuck themselves.

I wouldn’t be caught dead worshipping a 2000-year-old-carpenter-turned-cult-leader or a single-tusked elephant...Or a pedophiliac Arab merchant.

Happy?


Hate the sin not the Sinner.

Ops. Is that written somewhere cuz I might have broken a commandment or something.

If people decide to believe in an idiotic, primitive and frankly, inhumane superstition, then I have the right, nay, the responsibility to ridicule and criticize both them and their choice of superstition.


edit: Don't go berserk on me just because I miss a word or two. I'm foreign. (for 7 years)

[Ihavenoidea]

I have quoted sources before... This will be my 4th time on this forum quoting sources, but just for you, Ill include some extras.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/696408/posts

^ This site quotes almost every verse in the koran that is violent adn in context too.


http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/terrorist2.html

^this person uses a lot of theory but his/her facts are backed up with quotes from the hadith and koran


http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-wife-beating-koran-4-34.htm
^ 6 translations of the koran women-abuse paragraphs.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,344374,00.html

^ "In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles.... read on at the link.."



http://theproblemwithmostarabmuslims.blogs...ms-support.html

^ Goooood site, loaded with Stats.


http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Terrori...d_violence.html (http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Terrorism/islam_and_violence.html)

^another site quoting the koran glorifying violence with reward.


http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engasa330171999

^Amnesty against honor killings


http://youtube.com/watch?v=iWGA8i6scYY

^ VIDEO: "Only a rod will help!"


http://youtube.com/watch?v=fb6D9G4gpW8

^ VIDEO: Islam permits wife beating


http://youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM

^ VIDEO: A arab woman speaking out against islamic and arab wife beating: "The woman is compleatly isolated..."



http://youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0&mode=related&search=


^ VIDEO: ex muslim lady speaks out against islam.. the truth about islam



http://youtube.com/watch?v=8MsqKXXIvPs


^ VIDEO: This is Submission. A movie made by Theo Van Gogh. 'Submission' is quoting and commenting on verses in the Qur'an, namely, Sura 4:34 (allowing a husband to beat his wife) and Sura 24:30-31, demanding Muslim women to cover their bosom, and veil themselves, except to their relatives (including their uncles). This movie, however repulsive, shows how easily verses from Allah can and are being used by Muslim men every day to abuse their women...what an indictment against the Qur'an. Theo Van Gogh was killed for making this film and when it appears on YouTube it often gets taken down. In this video I read out some of the verses against women that feature in the film so that you can judge for yourself if it should be censored. I beleive this is only part one.. I think there is more out there... But t his is what I could find. It is 10 mins long.


http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Do...le_Pirate.Islam (http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_13_The_Pedophile_Pirate.Islam)

^ Muhammed was a pedophile.


http://www.christlive.com/printthread.php?t=82721

^another one on Muhammed and Aisha:

"...[T]he Prophet (Muhammed) said to her (Aisha), 'You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and someone said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done.'" (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 5:58:235) *excuses, excuses for getting turned on by a child*



I have so many more!!! Please PM me if you want some more.

AND BTW: I am against all religions. Period. But you asked so you shall receive.

[Zero]

It pains me when I'm on the same side as Neo-Cons...

Well, not quite the same side, but all the same; Islam is still a religion, they get no special treatment.

[Vargha Poralli]

All I'm saying is, even if we can't yet conquer the economic conditions, at least get rid of religion!


That is the problem with most Atheist IMO. We cannot get rid of religion without getting getting rid of the Material conditions that enables religion to gian power. Stalin did it but just replaced with cult of personality of Himself and Lenin, Same is the case with Mao. The same is the case in the State I lived in India because of self-respect movement. In 60's-80's pilgrimages to Holy sites were less frequent but from late 90's to date it has reached a phenomenal increase. e.g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirupati#Economy)

I myself was just like you once but discussion in (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=62031) this thread changed my outlook.


death by religious fervour is another---they should not be mixed together to confuse the audience.


Yes unprogressive elements should be opposed. But because some 19 young men's act should not be attributed to whole Muslim population.


If people decide to believe in an idiotic, primitive and frankly, inhumane superstition, then I have the right, nay, the responsibility to ridicule and criticize both them and their choice of superstition.

Which is not the Aim of Marxism or Communism IMO. Communism is not a doctrine it is a movement in which Atheism is just a small part. We must not let it to dominate our other priorities.


Don't go berserk on me just because I miss a word or two. I'm foreign.

Don't worry brother . I myself not a Native English speaker. I don't even live in a Englsih speaking country.


Islam is still a religion, they get no special treatment.

The trouble with ALL RELIGIONS is that they have outlived their material necessity. My point is not to give special treatment to a particular religion but not to abuse a particular religion because some people who follow that religion did something horrible.


I usually don't have a problem with Trots, but why do they love religion so much?

First of all not all Trots have my opinion. My opinion itself is a very recent phenomenon I myself was a religion hater for some time.

[LebaneseCommunistParty]

I was born and raised into a Muslim family although i am not a muslim anymore. But you know alot of the Western media exaggerates islam so much. The extremists are such a small minority it's not even funny. everyone is so moderate and Islam teaches alot of good values that would be useful in an anarchistic society. For you guys it may be OH FUCK RELIGION, and I was exactly the same, until i realized that the conditions i am living in do not allow that. if there would be any type of revolution here it owuld not happen with dissing religion. You may have the best society planned out, but one OH AND GOD DOESN'T EXIST, and all the people iwll go against you. I hope you guys can understand this point.

[Zero]

Yes, I understand that, the Middle East is far from a secular society, though I have no position to argue either way, as I've never lived there (or even been there!)

A little over 25% of Americans believe that Jesus will be coming back to lift them to heaven, and leave the rest of us to die. Without some sort of radical shift in religious rhetoric a Social Democracy is just about all we can hope for.

We're in the same boat man.

[RedStarOverChina]

I understand fully the difficulties comrades in the Middle East are faced with. But there is no easy way out...People from every community must fight against religion themselves, even though a victory for the left anywhere is a victory of the left everywhere.

As to the specific tactics against religion in the Middle East, I cannot claim to be more of an expert than you guys. But our most fundamental stand, which is Atheism cannot be compromised. I disagree with the notion that "atheism is only a small part of communism"...I think it is the basis of all legitimate revolutionary ideas, and without it, people in general, cannot be revolutionary.


and Islam teaches alot of good values that would be useful in an anarchistic society.

That I strongly disagree.

[Ihavenoidea]

^ Agreed with the first part and the second part. Good Job.

[Ihavenoidea]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 11:42 am


Yes unprogressive elements should be opposed. But because some 19 young men's act should not be attributed to whole Muslim population.

Hate to double posts, lovelies, but hun, there is a lot more then 19 young men doing horrifying things in the name of islam.

A huge wake up horn was when I saw that comic that the UK published... The one where it was trying to speak out against islam denying women rights. And then the muslims RIOTED.

RIOTED over a comic about women's rights. This pissed me off. People actually died in the riots, bombs were being set off, death threats thrown around....



They said it was because no one depicts mohammed (is that because he doesnt exist?).... But then again this was for the English public who actually found themselves in agreement with the comic. That Islam was blind to women's rights.


This is just one example. But so many more have done shit wrong. I encourage you to read about muslims in the news and then change your numbers.


I do not like Islam because: They dont keep their fucking religion to their fucking selves, they think everyone needs to pave the way for the muslims! Watch what you say around the muslims... they might get offended. be careful not to do anything "Blasphmous" around the muslims, their feelings hurt so easy.

All in all muslims want special treatment. And that just shows how they want everyone to be muslim or be dead. Muslims want people to be super sensitive about their religion. They want people to be educated about the good teachings of Islam.

Unfortunatly more and more people are finding out about the bad things... Unfortunatly for the muslims, their dreams of a throughout Islamic State will never exist. EVER.