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Spirit of Spartacus
3rd March 2007, 07:21
http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/03/top1.htm



US senators call for direct strike inside Pakistan: Pressure tactics may trigger Musharraf’s ouster: ambassador

By Anwar Iqbal

WASHINGTON, March 2: Members of the US Senate have urged the Bush administration to launch military strikes at alleged Al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, prompting the Pakistani envoy in Washington to warn that such an attitude could bring down the present set-up in Islamabad.

Senior Pentagon officials added fuel to the fire by claiming that their troops have already targeted Taliban and Al Qaeda sites inside Pakistan and that they have an agreement that allows them to do so.

Senator Carl Levin, Democratic chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the panel would press the Defence and State departments to consider taking military action against alleged Al Qaeda camps inside Pakistan if they learn that attacks inside Afghanistan have been planned at these sites.

"It's a critically important point, and I think we've got to insist, on this issue, that we be given a clear answer," Mr Levin said.

Lt-Gen Douglas Lute, chief operations officer for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, however, told the committee US soldiers could target terrorist sites inside Pakistan if there’s an imminent threat.

“We have all the authorities we need to pursue, either with (artillery) fire or on the ground, across the border,” he said.

“If just across the border, inside Pakistan, we have surveillance systems that detect a Taliban party setting up a rocket system which is obviously pointed west, into Afghanistan, we do not have to wait for the rockets to be fired. They have demonstrated hostile intent and we can engage them,” Lt-Gen Lute said.

Retired US Marine Gen. James Jones, former top Nato operational commander in Afghanistan, also told the panel that forces under the US command called Operation Enduring Freedom have a legal right to strike across the border.

"That mission, everybody agrees, could be done," he said.

Lt-Gen Lute, however, clarified that they would have to seek the Pakistan government's permission to go after a munitions factory further inside the Pakistani border.

Pakistan remained the target throughout the debate, with both Democrat and Republican senators claiming that the country is either unwilling or unable to prevent the Taliban and Al Qaeda insurgents from establishing camps inside the tribal zone.

Republican Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama said that if international laws allowed US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, the same laws could be applied to take actions against Al Qaeda and Taliban sanctuaries inside Pakistan.

Democratic Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana said that the Pakistani leaders “need to contemplate which is harder for them -- acting to do something about this, or us acting to do something about this."

Senior US defence officials present at the hearing did little to stop the tirade against Pakistan, a country the administration describes as a close ally in the war against terror.

Instead, they complained that the North Waziristan deal has led to an increase in cross-border attacks, and joined the lawmakers in urging Pakistan to do more to address the problem.

Under Secretary of Defence for Policy Eric Edelman said the agreement led to “an almost immediate and steady increase” in cross-border infiltration and attacks.

"We've expressed, over a period of time, directly to President Musharraf and to others our scepticism and reservations about the agreement,” he said.

Mr Edelman indicated that recent visits to Islamabad by Vice-President Dick Cheney and Defence Secretary Robert Gates were also aimed at persuading Pakistan to do more.

"There's no question that that sanctuary exists, and that it's a major asset for the Taliban,” said Lt-Gen Lute.

The only person who spoke for Pakistan was the committee's former chairman, now senior Republican Party member John Warner.

“I think under the leadership of Musharraf, they're doing the best they can, but the realities are there's fragility in the political system in Pakistan," he explained.

Senator Warner said the situation would be much worse for the United States and its allies if Islamists came to power in Pakistan.

In an interview to a Western news agency, Pakistan’s envoy in Washington, Mahmud Ali Durrani, also warned that such pressure tactics could destabilise Pakistan and may even bring down President Musharraf.

Asked if it might trigger President Musharraf's ouster, he replied: "I don't know. Possibly it could bring him down. It could destabilise the whole country. It could cause mega problems there. That is possible."

"What I'm worried about today more than anything else is this unhinging of the cooperative relationship... In this very critical field of (cooperation on) counter-terrorist operations, there seems to be a problem. We need to fix it," Ambassador Durrani told Reuters.

The hostility against Pakistan is so strong that even the capture of senior Taliban leader Mullah Obaidullah did not help reduce the criticism.

Some media outlets pointed out that Pakistan only captures a major terrorist leader when there’s pressure, which justifies Washington’s current policy of continuing its pressure on Islamabad.




More pressure tactics or a new threat?

Cheung Mo
3rd March 2007, 23:01
Wow. I'd love to see Musharraff get his ass kicked. As much as I deplore Washington's policies and American imperialism in general, a conflict against a right-wing dictator they can't keep in line would hold up resources that could otherwise continue stirring the reactionary pot in Venezuela.

Phalanx
4th March 2007, 03:28
I don't see how any reasonable person could support this. In all likelihood, working class people would be killed, Musharraff may get ousted, and another pro-US dictator would take over. Sounds like a great scenario.

Severian
4th March 2007, 04:53
Originally posted by Spirit of [email protected] 03, 2007 01:21 am
More pressure tactics or a new threat?
Maybe both. Did you see the reporting around Cheney's visit to Pakistan? The Times of India, for example, was reporting he was going to lay down the law to Musharraf. Apparently with some temporary success. (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/02/news/taliban.php)

Certainly Washington has reason to be unhappy with Musharraf from it's viewpoint - especially if reports like this (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IC01Df03.html) have any truth to them. (Personally, I'd guess that one is exagerrated at best.)

And Washington has struck directly at Taliban and al-Qaeda members in Pakistan before - even at their Pakistani supporters. For example, Neq Mohammad was killed by a Hellfire drone. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/militants/mohammed.html)

The Pakistani government's response to that one was to claim it had killed Neq Mohammed - even though the physical evidence clearly pointed to a U.S. weapon.

Washington was able to get the Pakistani regime to disavow its deal with Neq Mohammed, and probably hopes to get it to disavow its current deal or deals with Taliban.


“I think under the leadership of Musharraf, they're doing the best they can, but the realities are there's fragility in the political system in Pakistan," he explained.

Senator Warner said the situation would be much worse for the United States and its allies if Islamists came to power in Pakistan.

In an interview to a Western news agency, Pakistan’s envoy in Washington, Mahmud Ali Durrani, also warned that such pressure tactics could destabilise Pakistan and may even bring down President Musharraf.

Asked if it might trigger President Musharraf's ouster, he replied: "I don't know. Possibly it could bring him down. It could destabilise the whole country. It could cause mega problems there. That is possible."

I'd guess this possibility is overhyped - including by the Pakistani regime in self-defense. The ISI and military have their own reasons for backing the Taliban. And Islamists have rarely been able to take power anywhere.

C'mon, how popular are the Taliban in Pakistan really? Are they more popular with the general population - or with the ISI?

This poll (http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=833) suggests that support is declining.

In May 2005, a majority of Pakistanis (51%) expressed at least some confidence in bin Laden; that number has declined to 38% in the current survey.
....
About a third of Pakistanis (35%) say such extremists groups have the support of most or many of the people in that country.

This is a trend in a number of Muslim countries. Probably one major cause is that these groups have been carrying out more and more of their bombings within Muslim countries. In Pakistan, this includes sporadic Sunni vs Shi'a sectarian violence, plus the recent bombing of an India-Pakistan train (http://www.pakistantimes.net/2007/02/20/top1.htm), which mostly killed Pakistanis.

Ya gotta wonder how that last is going to affect the numbers in the next Pew poll.

And 71% of Pakistanis were very concerned or somewhat concerned about the rise of Islamic extremism aroudn the world. Lemme suggest that "Islamic extremists" or their sympathizers wouldn't give that response.

dso79
4th March 2007, 17:17
C'mon, how popular are the Taliban in Pakistan really? Are they more popular with the general population - or with the ISI?

This poll suggests that support is declining.

That poll says nothing about the Taliban. Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are two entirely different organizations. Al-Qaeda is an international organization with foreign leaders, that uses controversial tactics (terrorism, attacks on fellow Muslims), while the Taliban is an Afghani-Pakistani movement that only fights against foreign invaders and the Pakistani government. The fact that people are losing faith in al-Qaeda doesn’t necessarily mean they oppose the Taliban.


And 71% of Pakistanis were very concerned or somewhat concerned about the rise of Islamic extremism aroudn the world. Lemme suggest that "Islamic extremists" or their sympathizers wouldn't give that response.

But what is their definition of ‘Islamic extremism’? To us the Taliban seems pretty extreme, but the average Pakistani might not find them extreme at all. Like I said, that poll is about the global rise of groups like al-Qaeda and not about the rise of the Taliban in Pakistan.

It seems to me that the Islamists are still pretty influential and the alliance between Pakistan and the US is helping them gain even more ground. Whether they’ll be able to bring down Musharraf remains to be seen, though.

Comrade_Scott
4th March 2007, 21:18
just when you think they cant get dumber and learn the lessons they do shit like this. Im no lover of gen. perez bu does washington realize that he is keeping the gunpowder away from the sparks? and if they do do internal strikes (clear and blatant ones) then the islamic leaders who want his head will be baying for blood with the population backing them!
Noone is that dumb i hope and for the sake of the pakistanis i hope washington backs off and gen perez stands down soon

Spirit of Spartacus
5th March 2007, 16:34
Cheung Mo


Wow. I'd love to see Musharraff get his ass kicked. As much as I deplore Washington's policies and American imperialism in general, a conflict against a right-wing dictator they can't keep in line would hold up resources that could otherwise continue stirring the reactionary pot in Venezuela.

Errr...I guess Tatanka Iyotank replied to your point adequately. ;)

The Americans, in the unlikely event that they DO attack Pakistan, aren't going to remove Musharraf and go away. They'd aim to install a more pliable general.

Spirit of Spartacus
5th March 2007, 19:21
Originally posted by Severian+March 04, 2007 04:53 am--> (Severian @ March 04, 2007 04:53 am)
Spirit of [email protected] 03, 2007 01:21 am
More pressure tactics or a new threat?
Maybe both. Did you see the reporting around Cheney's visit to Pakistan? The Times of India, for example, was reporting he was going to lay down the law to Musharraf. Apparently with some temporary success. (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/02/news/taliban.php)
[/b]

You're right. Cheney's surprise visit to Pakistan is commonly seen here as a means of further pressurizing Musharraf into cooperating even more than he already is. I myself agree with that general impression.



Certainly Washington has reason to be unhappy with Musharraf from it's viewpoint - especially if reports like this (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IC01Df03.html) have any truth to them. (Personally, I'd guess that one is exagerrated at best.)

Interesting link, that. My first reaction is...MEGA exaggeration. I mean, its true that the Pakistani government doesn't exactly like the pro-India Karzai regime in Kabul, but this link you posted...its too much.

It would have been true back in the early 90s, but now its quite impossible for the ISI to render any meaningful assistance to the Afghan Taliban without the US finding out.

Note that I said "Afghan Taliban". Because we have our own locally-bred Taliban in the border region with Afghanistan...BBC refers to them as "Pakistani Taliban"...I'm not too sure what their relationship is to the Pakistani government.



And Washington has struck directly at Taliban and al-Qaeda members in Pakistan before - even at their Pakistani supporters. For example, Neq Mohammad was killed by a Hellfire drone. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/militants/mohammed.html)

The Pakistani government's response to that one was to claim it had killed Neq Mohammed - even though the physical evidence clearly pointed to a U.S. weapon.

Washington was able to get the Pakistani regime to disavow its deal with Neq Mohammed, and probably hopes to get it to disavow its current deal or deals with Taliban.


Nice analysis. I agree.






“I think under the leadership of Musharraf, they're doing the best they can, but the realities are there's fragility in the political system in Pakistan," he explained.

Senator Warner said the situation would be much worse for the United States and its allies if Islamists came to power in Pakistan.

In an interview to a Western news agency, Pakistan’s envoy in Washington, Mahmud Ali Durrani, also warned that such pressure tactics could destabilise Pakistan and may even bring down President Musharraf.

Asked if it might trigger President Musharraf's ouster, he replied: "I don't know. Possibly it could bring him down. It could destabilise the whole country. It could cause mega problems there. That is possible."

I'd guess this possibility is overhyped - including by the Pakistani regime in self-defense. The ISI and military have their own reasons for backing the Taliban. And Islamists have rarely been able to take power anywhere.


That's correct too. In actual fact, there is very little likelihood of Islamists
ever taking over Pakistan. The most they could hope to do is to "take over" the North West Frontier Province (which borders Afghanistan). Pakistan, in general, is not like Afghanistan. This is a different society, a different culture.


C'mon, how popular are the Taliban in Pakistan really? Are they more popular with the general population - or with the ISI?

Well, the majority of Pakistan's "general population" lives in rural areas. What with the low literacy rate and the semi-feudal social structure there, most of the rural peasants would have little idea who the Taliban are or what they represent. One comrade who recently visited some backward rural areas reports that quite a few of them didn't even know they were in Pakistan. As in, they don't know what Pakistan is.

To expect a backward rural population to sympathize with the Taliban in any meaningful way is ridiculous, something which the media fails to realize.

In urban areas, there are some "Taliban-sympathizers". Basically, they're people who are opposed to the stuff that America and its allies are doing. And they're told that the Taliban introduced (or tried to introduce) an Islamic system in Afghanistan...which is supposed to be a good thing. :rolleyes: And then the Taliban also fought and resisted the evil invaders from the West and all.
So if there is any basis for popular support for the Taliban here in Pakistan, that would be it.

Of course there are reactionary religious elements all over the country who would like to introduce a Taliban-style regime here, but can they take over? I'd be genuinely surprised. I live in an urban region anyway, and secular parties have always been influential in the cities. Yes, the reactionary elements can be a pain in the ass for progressive forces, but that's all they can ever hope to be, at least in the provinces of Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan. In the NWFP (North West Frontier Province), they're more influential, unfortunately. So there is quite a bit of real sympathy for the Taliban in the NWFP.



This poll (http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=833) suggests that support is declining.

In May 2005, a majority of Pakistanis (51%) expressed at least some confidence in bin Laden; that number has declined to 38% in the current survey.
....
About a third of Pakistanis (35%) say such extremists groups have the support of most or many of the people in that country.

This is a trend in a number of Muslim countries. Probably one major cause is that these groups have been carrying out more and more of their bombings within Muslim countries. In Pakistan, this includes sporadic Sunni vs Shi'a sectarian violence, plus the recent bombing of an India-Pakistan train (http://www.pakistantimes.net/2007/02/20/top1.htm), which mostly killed Pakistanis.

Ya gotta wonder how that last is going to affect the numbers in the next Pew poll.


I don't know how much credibility these polls have, or what statistical basis they use. Most likely, they'd focus on urban areas...huge cities like Karachi or Lahore. In the rural areas, where around 65-70 percent of our population lives, I doubt if the people would be all that aware of these issues.

In a way, its true that the recent spate of terrorist attacks in Pakistan could decrease support for the Islamists. I can't say for sure what impact the new violence will have, but I certainly hope it makes religious people drift away from supporting reactionary religious elements.

When the Islamic extremists do despicable stuff like this (http://wrathofhephaestus.wordpress.com/2007/02/21/the-ghastly-murder-of-zil-e-huma-highlights-the-struggle-of-pakistani-women-against-patriarchal-oppression/), it definitely does alienate politically-aware people.




And 71% of Pakistanis were very concerned or somewhat concerned about the rise of Islamic extremism aroudn the world. Lemme suggest that "Islamic extremists" or their sympathizers wouldn't give that response.


:huh:

Hmmm...that's an interesting bit of info. Frankly, I didn't know the condemnation for Islamic extremists around the world was so severe here in Pakistan.

But yes, it would be wrong to think that the majority of Pakistan's population are "Islamic extremists".

Religious, yes.
Socially conservative, quite a few.
Extremists, NO. They are not the majority.

Spirit of Spartacus
5th March 2007, 19:30
And 71% of Pakistanis were very concerned or somewhat concerned about the rise of Islamic extremism aroudn the world. Lemme suggest that "Islamic extremists" or their sympathizers wouldn't give that response.

But what is their definition of ‘Islamic extremism’?

I don't think your definition of Islamic extremism would be very far from that of a progressive Pakistani.


To us the Taliban seems pretty extreme, but the average Pakistani might not find them extreme at all. Like I said, that poll is about the global rise of groups like al-Qaeda and not about the rise of the Taliban in Pakistan.

First, if Pakistani people really understood what the Taliban represented, only the hardcore reactionary religious elements would ever uphold the Taliban.

Second, there is no "rise" of the Taliban in Pakistan. They've just risen in a lawless area on the border with Afghanistan, which is semi-autonomous, and where the government cannot exert its control.


It seems to me that the Islamists are still pretty influential and the alliance between Pakistan and the US is helping them gain even more ground. Whether they’ll be able to bring down Musharraf remains to be seen, though.

I'd be surprised if they could bring down Musharraf. VERY surprised.

Of course , in a hypothetical scenario, they could ride the wave of popular discontent if there were ever some sort of mass rebellion against Musharraf...which in itself seems highly unlikely at the moment.

Spirit of Spartacus
5th March 2007, 19:34
Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 09:18 pm
just when you think they cant get dumber and learn the lessons they do shit like this. Im no lover of gen. perez bu does washington realize that he is keeping the gunpowder away from the sparks? and if they do do internal strikes (clear and blatant ones) then the islamic leaders who want his head will be baying for blood with the population backing them!
Noone is that dumb i hope and for the sake of the pakistanis i hope washington backs off and gen perez stands down soon
This is an illusion which the pro-imperialist media would really love to spread. I suggest you take it with a grain of salt, comrade.

The pro-imperialist media would like to justify Washington's relationship with Pervez Musharraf by depicting him as the only thing standing between a horde of Islamists and Pakistan's nukes.

Even if Musharraf were to be removed from power somehow, it is highly unlikely that the Islamists would seize power. Do they possess the necessary political structure and mass support to do that?

In some areas, perhaps they do. In around three-quarters of Pakistan, they simply don't stand a chance.

They'll just be a pain in the ass for progressive forces, like I said before. They're not going to take over no matter where Pervez Musharraf goes.

Spirit of Spartacus
7th March 2007, 17:25
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CAD...42DE4C38D66.htm (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CAD5431A-8120-4D22-8604-842DE4C38D66.htm)


Taliban chief criticizes Pakistan.

Looks like they're not too happy with Pakistan, eh? ;)

Severian
8th March 2007, 08:48
Originally posted by Spirit of [email protected] 05, 2007 01:21 pm

Certainly Washington has reason to be unhappy with Musharraf from it's viewpoint - especially if reports like this (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IC01Df03.html) have any truth to them. (Personally, I'd guess that one is exagerrated at best.)

Interesting link, that. My first reaction is...MEGA exaggeration. I mean, its true that the Pakistani government doesn't exactly like the pro-India Karzai regime in Kabul, but this link you posted...its too much.
OK...really, I only considered it at all 'cause the Asia Times is sometimes good.


Because we have our own locally-bred Taliban in the border region with Afghanistan...BBC refers to them as "Pakistani Taliban"...I'm not too sure what their relationship is to the Pakistani government.

One element, I've heard, is the traditional ISI support to "Islamic fundamentalist" Pakistani groups fighting in Kashmir. Which used to train in Afghanistan, and have ties to other "Islamic fundamentalist" groups. Do you have any comment on that?


That's correct too. In actual fact, there is very little likelihood of Islamists
ever taking over Pakistan. The most they could hope to do is to "take over" the North West Frontier Province (which borders Afghanistan). Pakistan, in general, is not like Afghanistan. This is a different society, a different culture.

That's an interesting comment. 'Cause in some ways it seems like they're weaker in many majority-Muslim countries than in Pakistan. Based on the Pew polls, for example.

I've wondered if this is partly related to Pakistan's self-definition having a religious element, coming out of partition. Of course Jinnah, when he proposed drawing borders across India based on religion, didn't want a theocratic state. But some bias in that direction seems inevitable, when you define a state using religion.


Well, the majority of Pakistan's "general population" lives in rural areas. What with the low literacy rate and the semi-feudal social structure there, most of the rural peasants would have little idea who the Taliban are or what they represent. One comrade who recently visited some backward rural areas reports that quite a few of them didn't even know they were in Pakistan. As in, they don't know what Pakistan is.

Damn. Don't they have radios?

Anyway, interesting point about the rural areas. Brings up a distinction I've seen about "Islamic fundamentalism" before - it's not traditionalism. It's a new and radical (radically reactionary) political movement.


I don't know how much credibility these polls have, or what statistical basis they use. Most likely, they'd focus on urban areas...huge cities like Karachi or Lahore.

You're right, in Pakistan anyway. Methodology (http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=835)
All surveys are based on national samples except in China, India, and Pakistan, where the sample was disproportionately or exclusively urban....
Pakistan* Sample design: Probability * Mode: Face-to-face adults 18 plus * Languages: Urdu * Fieldwork dates: April 7-28, 2006 * Sample size: 1277 * Margin of Error: 3% * Representative: Disproportionately urban

But since they do it every year with, as far as I can tell, similar methods, it's at least useful to tracking changes in that disproporationately urban, Urdu-speaking population. And heck, I'd rather have imperfect data than no data.

***

Maybe there's a broader issue than the reaction of Taliban sympathizers? That is, how much does U.S. intervention and bullying piss off people who are not necessarily pro-Islamist....and does their reaction have a progressive, anti-imperialist element to it, or is more anti-Indian or something? ("Why doesn't our old friend Uncle Sam support us unconditionally against India anymore?")

Guerrilla22
8th March 2007, 13:03
At one time the ISI viewed the taliban as a valuable resource, no doubt, they did, after all prop up the Taliban in late 90's. Then 9/11 happened and Musharef was told by the US that his government was going to adopt an anti-extremist stance, and support the overthrow of the taliban and the destruction of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Now the ISI most likely views the taliban as a pain in the ass, since their government's policy reveresed 180 degrees.

Vargha Poralli
8th March 2007, 13:20
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 06:33 pm
At one time the ISI viewed the taliban as a valuable resource, no doubt, they did, after all prop up the Taliban in late 90's. Then 9/11 happened and Musharef was told by the US that his government was going to adopt an anti-extremist stance, and support the overthrow of the taliban and the destruction of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Now the ISI most likely views the taliban as a pain in the ass, since their government's policy reveresed 180 degrees.

But ISI is more or less like a state within state. No one in Pakistan(politicians) can do anything about it. It clearly had a hand in organising the Kargil Infiltration and helped Musharaff to overthrow Nawaz Sharif(who in turned tried to demote Musharaff following tactical and diplomatic debacle in the Kargil issue).So it is Musharaff who is suffering the pain as he can do nothing against the ISI.

Another trouble with ISI is that it provides the Indian ruling class(Congress and BJP) an excellent scapegoat. Anything that gives to trouble in Indians they will blame it on ISI not focusing on the core conditions of the problem.

Guerrilla22
8th March 2007, 13:30
Originally posted by g.ram+March 08, 2007 01:20 pm--> (g.ram @ March 08, 2007 01:20 pm)
[email protected] 08, 2007 06:33 pm
At one time the ISI viewed the taliban as a valuable resource, no doubt, they did, after all prop up the Taliban in late 90's. Then 9/11 happened and Musharef was told by the US that his government was going to adopt an anti-extremist stance, and support the overthrow of the taliban and the destruction of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Now the ISI most likely views the taliban as a pain in the ass, since their government's policy reveresed 180 degrees.

But ISI is more or less like a state within state. No one in Pakistan(politicians) can do anything about it. It clearly had a hand in organising the Kargil Infiltration and helped Musharaff to overthrow Nawaz Sharif(who in turned tried to demote Musharaff following tactical and diplomatic debacle in the Kargil issue).So it is Musharaff who is suffering the pain as he can do nothing against the ISI.

Another trouble with ISI is that it provides the Indian ruling class(Congress and BJP) an excellent scapegoat. Anything that gives to trouble in Indians they will blame it on ISI not focusing on the core conditions of the problem. [/b]
Actually Musharef has reeled them in so to speak, since 9/11. From the FAS website:

Pakistan's military leader, General Pervez Musharraf, has attempted to rein in the ISI. Since September 11th, Islamic fundamentalists have been purged from leadership positions. This includes then-ISI head Lieutenant General Mahmood Ahmed, who was replaced in October 2001 by Lieutenant General Ehsanul Haq.

Additional reforms of the ISI have been made. Most notable was the decision to disband the Kashmir and Afghanistan units. Both these groups have promoted Islamic fundamentalist militancy throughout South Asia. Some officials have been forced to retire and others have been transferred back to the military. Intelligence experts have estimated that these moves would slash the size of the ISI by close to 40%.

Spirit of Spartacus
18th March 2007, 10:34
Maybe there's a broader issue than the reaction of Taliban sympathizers? That is, how much does U.S. intervention and bullying piss off people who are not necessarily pro-Islamist....and does their reaction have a progressive, anti-imperialist element to it, or is more anti-Indian or something? ("Why doesn't our old friend Uncle Sam support us unconditionally against India anymore?")


US imperialism doesn't just piss the Islamists.

Secular people, who are not necessarily pro-Islamist, also denounce US imperialism in the strongest of terms...only thing is, they don't use that Muslim-vs-Infidel rhetoric of the Islamists. :P

The reaction of those secular people does have a progressive, anti-imperialist element to it, and a lot of my friends are like that.
Gives you hope in a country where the Left has been hounded from the beginning.

The "anti-Indian" sentiment is still there, although its starting to decrease somewhat among the educated people. There is a peace-effort going on between Pakistan and India, after all.