Immortal technique

[Layne]

Are there any fans here of Immortal Technique?

[Boriznov]

I am for sure, i really like Revolutionary vol.2

Marxist hip-hop is somehow the best haha

[Pirate Utopian]

IT has been discussed so many times before.

IT is a good lyricist and all, but he is also a homophobe and a believer in alot of crazy conspiracy theories

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 02, 2007 04:21 pm
IT has been discussed so many times before.

IT is a good lyricist and all, but he is also a homophobe and a believer in alot of crazy conspiracy theories
Yep,.....use the search button ppl :mellow:

BTW: How is IT's music "Marxist?"

[Boriznov]

Originally posted by Tekun+March 03, 2007 12:23 am--> (Tekun @ March 03, 2007 12:23 am)
Big [email protected] 02, 2007 04:21 pm
IT has been discussed so many times before.

IT is a good lyricist and all, but he is also a homophobe and a believer in alot of crazy conspiracy theories
Yep,.....use the search button ppl :mellow:

BTW: How is IT's music "Marxist?" [/b]
Well doesn't he believe in Marxist ideologies ? If not, i'm wrong :)

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Wingsomega+March 03, 2007 01:19 am--> (Wingsomega @ March 03, 2007 01:19 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 12:23 am

Big [email protected] 02, 2007 04:21 pm
IT has been discussed so many times before.

IT is a good lyricist and all, but he is also a homophobe and a believer in alot of crazy conspiracy theories
Yep,.....use the search button ppl :mellow:

BTW: How is IT's music "Marxist?"
Well doesn't he believe in Marxist ideologies ? If not, i'm wrong :) [/b]
Not that I know of, on the contrary, he's said that he's no communist/anarchist
Therez a link to an interview of him in one of the old IT threads, in which he claims that he's not a communist

[Rage]

I like him. I know I am going to get a ton of shit for saying it, but I really do.

I do not think he is a homophobe or whatever people call him. It has been debated many times before. You should find the old thread if you are interested.

/,,/
Rock on!

[southernmissfan]

I have Revolutionary Vol.1 and 2. They're pretty good. By no means one of my favorite rappers, but he's pretty good.

[Fawkes]

Yeah, this has been discussed so many times. Anyway, he's pretty good though if you listen to him for to long it gets kind of boring because he never changes his tempo, flow, or beats from song to song. Also, in regards to Tekun, he has never claimed that he is a communist or anarchist, but he has, if I recall correctly, claimed to be a socialist.

[Red Menace]

how is he a homophobe? :huh:

[Rage]

Because he says says "If you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke" and because he says "faggot" in a song.

But he also says "I don't make story's to disrespect women, or to judge people about the life they livin"

Anybody know when his new CD "The middle passage" is coming out? It was supposed to come out like last fall, but I heard it might be as late as next year.

/,,/
Rock on!

[Fawkes]

I remember one thread where someone listed all the homophobic lyrics by IT but I can't seem to find it. A song that has some pretty sexist and homophobic lyrics in it is "Obnoxious" off of Revolutionary Vol. 2.

[Vanguard1917]

Immortal Technique is a bit of an idiot, no doubt about it. I know leftish hip hop fans get all excited when rappers mention 'the system' in their songs, but Immortal Technique is actually a very mediocre rapper, with very limited skills. He has a couple of good songs though, like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrBRJVGLRPo).

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 12:19 pm
Immortal Technique is a bit of an idiot, no doubt about it. I know leftish hip hop fans get all excited when rappers mention 'the system' in their songs, but Immortal Technique is actually a very mediocre rapper, with very limited skills. He has a couple of good songs though, like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrBRJVGLRPo).
I think he is a really good freestyle rapper, there is no doubt about that shit. If you ever get the privlege to hear him freestyle, its amazing how poetic he freestyles. But i&#39;m not a big fan of some of his lyrics because he just sounds ignorant and shit. I remember I saw him at a concert and he was walking through the crowd to go to his autograph booth and I guess no one saw him but me and my sister. Well we wanted pictures of course so my sister went over and ran to him and convinced him to take pics with us. Damn basterd was all huggin up on my sister.... <_<

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 05:06 pm
Yeah, this has been discussed so many times. Anyway, he&#39;s pretty good though if you listen to him for to long it gets kind of boring because he never changes his tempo, flow, or beats from song to song. Also, in regards to Tekun, he has never claimed that he is a communist or anarchist, but he has, if I recall correctly, claimed to be a socialist.
Any links?

IT&#39;s also been known for his arrogance at events or gatherings (e.g. last year&#39;s Hotel labor strike in LA)

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by Tekun+March 04, 2007 12:22 pm--> (Tekun @ March 04, 2007 12:22 pm)
[email protected] 03, 2007 05:06 pm
Yeah, this has been discussed so many times. Anyway, he&#39;s pretty good though if you listen to him for to long it gets kind of boring because he never changes his tempo, flow, or beats from song to song. Also, in regards to Tekun, he has never claimed that he is a communist or anarchist, but he has, if I recall correctly, claimed to be a socialist.
Any links?

IT&#39;s also been known for his arrogance at events or gatherings (e.g. last year&#39;s Hotel labor strike in LA) [/b]
What happened at the labor strike?

I like Immortal Technique most of the time but I don&#39;t like the songs where he uses sexist language. Referring to woman as *****es and gays as faggots is not what comrades should be doing. I have seen immortal technique call himself a communist in speeches on the internet. He has a song called "The Poverty of Philosophy" i think that is an ode to him being a communist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Vl0peys90

[404]

In my opinion, Immortal technique makes laughable the true intent by over structuring his word usage in configuration to his messages. Hence the need for big words to get your post across in this manner is merely asinine.

What point is he trying to prove, that he has an education? Well, I do not think it is concrete to the audience he is aiming to relate with, me being on of them. It is okay to be educated, it is okay to inform from an educated standpoint, however, it is worthless to over exemplify it on a studious level such as this. He really does not do this right due to his misuse of syntax by speculation alone.


This big words also effects the flow of his timing too.

[abrupt]

tech is an amazing rapper.

in some tracks he might be coming off as anti-gay, but its just words to use as an insult (because in hip hop and the new generation itself, the worst thing they can be called, according to unwritten rules is that). take note that he has never said "i hate faggots, i want to kill them all". that would make him homophobic, saying "if u can take a fuckin dick then u can take a joke" doesnt even imply homophobic, cuz he wasnt adressing it to anybody.

you have to remember tech wasnt always a revolutionary. before that he was thug type mofucka with disregard for rules, after that he began to see error in politics in USA/world which lead him to seeking truth and giving up his old life.

he has said some grimey shit, he has said some very real political shit, and he has dropped some shit that made u wanna tear up. as many people do he has many sides to him so he can almost at times come off condesending, but he writes tracks according to mood, so you will have a better look at him then if he writes continually the same tracks.

[Black Dagger]

It&#39;s amazing how much homophobia and sexism revolutionaries are willing to ignore as long as there&#39;s a good beat and flow to bop along to.

This shit is a joke, and every motherfucker who comes in here and plays down IT&#39;s homophobia and sexism, every single one of you is nothing but a fake.

If you really cared, if you really cared about fighting prejudice in all forms, homophobia, sexism, racism - whatever form; you&#39;d think a little more critically about Immortal Technique and his lyrics - it doesnt take an in-depth analysis, you just have to stop running from the facts and ditch this apologist shit, its&#39; hypocritical.

For supposed revolutionaries to talk up someone who alienates your comrades with thoughtless shit like, &#39;&#39;But half of y&#39;all are faggots tryin to pick up a tranny&#39; is absurd.

What a fucking revolutionary, and people who defend that shit are no better; you&#39;re not comrades of mine, fuck you&#33;


Lets go:


Originally posted by Layne+--> (Layne)Are there any fans here of Immortal Technique?[/b]

Fans of hip-hop, hell yes, fans of that prejudiced poser, hell no.


Originally posted by Wingsomega+--> (Wingsomega)Well doesn&#39;t he believe in Marxist ideologies ? If not, i&#39;m wrong[/b]

No, you are wrong:


Originally posted by Immortal Homophobe
Then there are the people who are wearing the Emperors clothes for him, talking as if Bush was some rock of Gibraltar. As if he had led us like Ulysses Grant thru a Civil War instead of running this country thru the mud. This man is a complete failure as a president and this has finally awoken some people to it. 9/11 was a cover up of mistakes, dark alliances and economic power moves. The campaign to remove the Taliban should have never been conducted after 9/11/2001, but rather in 1998 when they started ethnically cleansing their own people the Asiatic so called "Hazara." We have always put corporate profits before the living standard of people in American foreign policy and now that echoes in our own nation.. That is the very nature of Capitalism. But nothing in the form of corrputed Russian Communism offers a viable alternative, only an unmasked totalitarian rule without the details that we have and the choice between Pepsi and Coke. I’m not a Marxist, a Communist or an anarchist I am just a Peruvian/Black muthafucka from Harlem but I could see this truth if I were blind.

http://www.immortal-technique.com/home.html



Originally posted by Rage
I do not think he is a homophobe or whatever people call him.

How on earth can you deny this?

I know it feels stupid to say that you like a homophobe, but its very plain for EVERYONE else to see, the dude is homophobic, if he wasnt he wouldnt spout homophobic shit constantly. You can still like his music, but to deny he is homophobic would be a barefaced LIE.


Originally posted by Rage
Because he says says "If you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke" and because he says "faggot" in a song.

You make it sound like he only says &#39;faggot&#39; in one song :wacko:



Originally posted by Rage
But he also says "I don&#39;t make story&#39;s to disrespect women, or to judge people about the life they livin"

:lol:

The get-ITs prejudiced ass-out-of-jail free card, i was just WAITING for someone to mention this quote, or maybe that lil&#39; speech he made at a gig once about &#39;protecting&#39; women.

How can you justify clinging on to a single quote whilst ignoring an entire body of work that disrespects women? That CANNOT be ignored because of a single sentence.

Homophobia and sexism etc. are not just these little things that pop up in one or two songs, they&#39;re all throughout his music, it&#39;s not a coincidence, an &#39;isolated incidence&#39;, a mistake or misunderstanding - the guy has shit politics, all you have to is be weary of this, admit it - except all you and his fans do is make excuses for him, trying to explain that he &#39;doesnt really&#39; mean to be homophobic when calls people &#39;faggots&#39; or sexist when talks about women as *****es and slut sucking on his dick.


Originally posted by abrupt
in some tracks he might be coming off as anti-gay, but its just words to use as an insult (because in hip hop and the new generation itself, the worst thing they can be called, according to unwritten rules is that).

No, it&#39;s not &#39;just words&#39;, and if he plays into to macho-chauvinism and homophobia of hiphops mainstream than he&#39;s a moron, not a revolutionary, and a bigoted moron at that.

If a white rapper wrote a song with the lines, &#39;insinuate degenerate spics&#39; or &#39;So if I catch you bluffing, spics, you less than nothing&#39;

Its not anti-latino, it&#39;s &#39;just words&#39;? Fucking please :rolleyes:

This is not &#39;just words&#39;, its blatant homophobia and you&#39;re acting like it doesnt matter,



You get no props in hip-hop like feminine men


But half of y&#39;all are faggots tryin to pick up a tranny


So if I catch you bluffing, faggot, you less than nothing


And your crew is full of more faggots than Greek mythology


you coffee shop revolutionary son of a *****
but you know what the fuck I think is just pathetic and gay
when niggaz speculate what the fuck &#39;Pac would say



why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug
and don&#39;t be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote
cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke


cuz you got jealousy in ya voice like star scream
and that&#39;s the primary reason that I hate ya faggots


Immortal Technique: insinuate degenerate fags



Originally posted by abrupt
take note that he has never said "i hate faggots, i want to kill them all". that would make him homophobic, saying "if u can take a fuckin dick then u can take a joke" doesnt even imply homophobic, cuz he wasnt adressing it to anybody.

Using &#39;gay&#39; pejoratively (which IT does copiously) is explicitly homophobic, not to mention his consistent use of the term &#39;faggot&#39; (the homophobic equivalent of &#39;nigger&#39;) - a term which use is exclusively homophobic.

Its is ludicrousto argue that IT is not homophobic because he hasnt said, &#39;i hate gay people&#39; - as if making such a matter-of-fact admission is the only way to express this sort of prejudice. Again, for revolutionaries to be making excuses for this kind of prejudice is mind-boggling.

As for the &#39;can take a dick&#39; line, well, there you&#39;re just straight-up lying to protect your bigoted idol.

The full lines are as follows:


Immortal [email protected]

why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug
and don&#39;t be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote
cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke

You claim he is not addressing anybody when it is very obvious that he is (notice how he says &#39;you&#39;? &#39;You&#39; generally refers to another person). He&#39;s trash talking someone, he calls them a &#39;homo-thug&#39; (not homophobic in the slightest of course :rolleyes: ) and then tells em not to get pissed about what hes&#39; sayin&#39; to them because if they can &#39;take a fucking dick&#39; (i.e. they&#39;re &#39;homo-thugs&#39; = anal sex, get it?) they can &#39;take a joke&#39;, what clever wordplay.

Its a case of fucking crystal clear homophobia.


abrupt
you have to remember tech wasnt always a revolutionary. before that he was thug type mofucka with disregard for rules, after that he began to see error in politics in USA/world which lead him to seeking truth and giving up his old life.

Except that his prejudiced lyrics were written during his &#39;revolutionary&#39; period (i.e. now); so the now he knows better shit doesnt fly, he very clearly NEVER had a clue.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 09:10 am
in some tracks he might be coming off as anti-gay, but its just words to use as an insult (because in hip hop and the new generation itself, the worst thing they can be called, according to unwritten rules is that). take note that he has never said "i hate faggots, i want to kill them all". that would make him homophobic, saying "if u can take a fuckin dick then u can take a joke" doesnt even imply homophobic, cuz he wasnt adressing it to anybody.
You are fucking kidding right? So if I made a song that said "You are a nigger thug, and don&#39;t get mad because if you can eat a chitlen you can take a joke". That wouldn&#39;t be racist right? :unsure:
I mean no one said they hated black people.

You are fucking kidding yourself if you don&#39;t realize that is blatantly homophobic. It doesn&#39;t matter if he is talking about gay people or if he was just using it as a term to talk trash like "that&#39;s gay". It doesn&#39;t matter. Using the term at all furthers the sexist agenda.

[Sir_No_Sir]

I think saying gay in itself offends black_rose=P

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Tekun+March 04, 2007 03:22 pm--> (Tekun &#064; March 04, 2007 03:22 pm)
[email protected] 03, 2007 05:06 pm
Yeah, this has been discussed so many times. Anyway, he&#39;s pretty good though if you listen to him for to long it gets kind of boring because he never changes his tempo, flow, or beats from song to song. Also, in regards to Tekun, he has never claimed that he is a communist or anarchist, but he has, if I recall correctly, claimed to be a socialist.
Any links?

IT&#39;s also been known for his arrogance at events or gatherings (e.g. last year&#39;s Hotel labor strike in LA) [/b]
I&#39;ll try to find some, I&#39;ll edit this when I do.

Edit: On his Wikipedia article it says that he is a self-proclaimed "socialist guerrilla". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Tech...political_views (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Technique#Social_and_political_views)


Fans of hip-hop, hell yes, fans of that prejudiced poser, hell no.
I&#39;m a fan of Immortal Technique (granted, not a huge one), but I don&#39;t at all see him as being a revolutionary.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 09:17 pm
I think saying gay in itself offends black_rose=P
WTF, are you blind? It&#39;s not just "using the word gay"- it&#39;s using it as an INSULT- combined with the use of the word "faggot" which is HIGHLY offensive&#33;

[Red October]

I used to be really into IT, but his shit gets old after a while. some of his songs are really good, but i get tired of all the conspiracy theory stuff.

[chitown_brotha]

FOR ALL YOU IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE SUPPORTERS FANS OR FOR WHOM THAT LIKE HIS MUSIC AND LIVE IN FLORIDA OR IN ORLANDO MAKE SURE YOU COME THRU......
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5138/l5801272e6d979fb1398605sd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Tekun]

Originally posted by chitown_brotha
FOR ALL YOU IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE SUPPORTERS FANS OR FOR WHOM THAT LIKE HIS MUSIC AND LIVE IN FLORIDA OR IN ORLANDO MAKE SURE YOU COME THRU......
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5138/l5801272e6d979fb1398605sd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
^WTF is up with that pose?
Looks like he just got a whiff of my dirty socks :lol:

[Sir_No_Sir]

Originally posted by Mujer Libre+March 05, 2007 09:33 pm--> (Mujer Libre @ March 05, 2007 09:33 pm)
[email protected] 05, 2007 09:17 pm
I think saying gay in itself offends black_rose=P
WTF, are you blind? It&#39;s not just "using the word gay"- it&#39;s using it as an INSULT- combined with the use of the word "faggot" which is HIGHLY offensive&#33; [/b]
You misunderstood me, I didnt say he was wrong. I don&#39;t like the language IT uses, but I dont think he tries to be homophobic-i think hes ingorant to it. Idk, im no expert.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Sir_No_Sir+March 06, 2007 02:12 pm--> (Sir_No_Sir @ March 06, 2007 02:12 pm)
Originally posted by Mujer [email protected] 05, 2007 09:33 pm

Sir_No_Sir[email protected] 05, 2007 09:17 pm
I think saying gay in itself offends black_rose=P
WTF, are you blind? It&#39;s not just "using the word gay"- it&#39;s using it as an INSULT- combined with the use of the word "faggot" which is HIGHLY offensive&#33;
You misunderstood me, I didnt say he was wrong. I don&#39;t like the language IT uses, but I dont think he tries to be homophobic-i think hes ingorant to it. Idk, im no expert. [/b]
Ok - perhaps thenn you could explain how these lines are NOT homophobic?



You get no props in hip-hop like feminine men


But half of y&#39;all are faggots tryin to pick up a tranny


So if I catch you bluffing, faggot, you less than nothing


And your crew is full of more faggots than Greek mythology


you coffee shop revolutionary son of a *****
but you know what the fuck I think is just pathetic and gay
when niggaz speculate what the fuck &#39;Pac would say



why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug
and don&#39;t be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote
cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke


cuz you got jealousy in ya voice like star scream
and that&#39;s the primary reason that I hate ya faggots


Immortal Technique: insinuate degenerate fags

It&#39;s not a question of &#39;trying&#39; to be homophobic, his lyrics ARE homophobic - how in the world can you not see that?&#33;&#33;

[SanPatricio&#39;sSoul]

Can someone please make an IT mini-section or at least a fucking sticky in this.

Anywho i don&#39;t think he&#39;s the best political rapper out there, he just has the "hardest" style of anybody who is doing the political thing. Honestly although I still do occasionally enjoy hearing just some "Fuck The World" style hip hop these days I just judge it on the basis of how intelligent the rapper is. Anywho I think IT just happens to be the best Secular leftist political rapper out there with a hardcore style.

I think half his fan base is just from the fact that he is almost original in his particular genre of music. The alternatives either have too much of an old school style for many of today&#39;s rap fan&#39;s taste, make half their songs about Islam/Hood Life, are of a different type of hip hop (more soul based, not so much the focus on hardcore i.e. Lupe Fiasco (My current favorite and a genious by the way), Talib Kweli, Mos Def), or are completely unknown. But I find it funny how both of Immortal Technique&#39;s proteges are much better rappers.

Akir&#39;s Legacy>>>>>>>>>>>Rev vol. 1, 2

[Sir_No_Sir]

Originally posted by black rose+March 06, 2007 05:42 am--> (black rose @ March 06, 2007 05:42 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 02:12 pm

Originally posted by Mujer [email protected] 05, 2007 09:33 pm

[email protected] 05, 2007 09:17 pm
I think saying gay in itself offends black_rose=P
WTF, are you blind? It&#39;s not just "using the word gay"- it&#39;s using it as an INSULT- combined with the use of the word "faggot" which is HIGHLY offensive&#33;
You misunderstood me, I didnt say he was wrong. I don&#39;t like the language IT uses, but I dont think he tries to be homophobic-i think hes ingorant to it. Idk, im no expert.
Ok - perhaps thenn you could explain how these lines are NOT homophobic?



You get no props in hip-hop like feminine men


But half of y&#39;all are faggots tryin to pick up a tranny


So if I catch you bluffing, faggot, you less than nothing


And your crew is full of more faggots than Greek mythology


you coffee shop revolutionary son of a *****
but you know what the fuck I think is just pathetic and gay
when niggaz speculate what the fuck &#39;Pac would say



why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug
and don&#39;t be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote
cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke


cuz you got jealousy in ya voice like star scream
and that&#39;s the primary reason that I hate ya faggots


Immortal Technique: insinuate degenerate fags

It&#39;s not a question of &#39;trying&#39; to be homophobic, his lyrics ARE homophobic - how in the world can you not see that?&#33;&#33; [/b]
He uses homophobic language. Its disgustng, and we&#39;ve established that. I just dont think he thinksmuch about it. It really is (unfortunately) a staple of popular rap..

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by sirnosir
He uses homophobic language. Its disgustng, and we&#39;ve established that. I just dont think he thinksmuch about it. It really is (unfortunately) a staple of popular rap..



So do you think he&#39;s homophobic or not? If not, how can you justify that given he writes and records homophobic songs?

Moreover, he just doesnt &#39;think much about it&#39; - yet somehow he&#39;s some kind of progressive... revolutionary? What kind of revolutionary (fuck that, liberal progressives even) regularly use words like &#39;faggot&#39; and thinks nothing of it?



And another thing, IT doesnt do &#39;popular rap&#39; - he doesnt have mainstream distro or radio play etc. etc. He&#39;s just another indy mc, &#39;underground&#39; and all that shit - who has a revolutionary image, and he&#39;s not stupid.

Listening to his lyrics he&#39;s obviously switched on enough to understand that a lot of fucked shit is going and has gone down in the past so i dont buy the he doesnt really know/understand what he says bs. At the end of the day he writes and records songs with extremely homophobic (and often sexist) lyrics with the full knowledge that what he writes and performs is extremely offensive to a lot of people; the thing is he knows all of this (people have raised it in interviews etc.) - he knows it all - but doesnt care.

Not caring about being homophobic does not make him any less homophobic; in fact, it probably makes things a whole lot worse&#33;

[Coggeh]

Moreover, he just doesnt &#39;think much about it&#39; - yet somehow he&#39;s some kind of progressive... revolutionary? What kind of revolutionary (fuck that, liberal progressives even) regularly use words like &#39;faggot&#39; and thinks nothing of it?

Well to be honest hes write Sir_no_Sir is right , i used use the term "gay" to describe something i didnt like without realiseing i was being homophobic . I don&#39;t anymore but I can see where Sir_no_Sir&#39;s point is coming from.

Although maybe hes gone a bit over the top in his lyrics , i think hes just criticising a straight person making him out to be a homosexual to insult him . I would not consider this guy to be all out racist against gays but their would be a sub concious disliking to them one that which he can&#39;t control and was put there by society itself

[Sanjee]

Immortal Technique, is a leftist and quite revolutionary too. He knows how to express his thoughts lyrically, but sometimes his flow is just &#39;wack&#39;. Though I try not to pay that much of attention to his flow, but to focus on his lyrics only (which are very good).

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by coggy+--> (coggy)Well to be honest hes write Sir_no_Sir is right , i used use the term "gay" to describe something i didnt like without realiseing i was being homophobic . I don&#39;t anymore but I can see where Sir_no_Sir&#39;s point is coming from.[/b]

Except that IT is not some naive highschool student, and we&#39;re not just talkin about using &#39;gay&#39; pejoratively, but much worse, &#39;faggot&#39; is a word which is explictly homophobic, there&#39;s no fuzzy area where some excuse about &#39;oh its just a bad habit i picked up at school&#39; etc will fly, it&#39;s commonly regarded and used to express homophobia.


Originally posted by coggy+--> (coggy)Although maybe hes gone a bit over the top in his lyrics[/b]

MAYBE? You say maybe as if there is any doubt? I think its pretty obvious that he&#39;s gone &#39;over the top&#39; in his lyrics, they&#39;re explicitly homophobic, that&#39;s plain to see.


Originally posted by coggy

I think hes just criticising a straight person making him out to be a homosexual to insult him

Well that is one thing that he does, yes, but that&#39;s a euphemistic way of saying IT is infact a homophobe, why wont you just admit it? I dont understand why you feel the need to play-down his prejudice.


[email protected]

I would not consider this guy to be all out racist against gays

Racist? I assume you mean homophobic, and again i ask, how on earth can he NOT be homophobic when spouts explicitly homophobic lyrics? You can throw out bs trying to explain it away, but i really dont think that its just an embarrassing coincidence that ITs lyrics would sound completely natural coming from the mouth of some gay-bashing skinhead.

This thread is a perfect illustration of not only how mainstream and acceptable homophobia is in society, but also in the so-called &#39;revolutionary&#39; left.

I really doubt so many people would be willing to deflect criticism from an apolitical white rapper who talked about &#39;degenerate spics&#39; and threw out lines slagging off Black people as &#39;niggers&#39; etc. now, what do you think?

But for some reason (i wonder what it is...) when its only homophobia it can be played down, or even overlooked, with crys of &#39;im sure he doesnt mean it&#33;&#39; give me a fucking break :rolleyes:


coggy

but their would be a sub concious disliking to them one that which he can&#39;t control and was put there by society itself

Another attempt to deflect criticism, &#39;he cant help being homophobic, its built into him by society&#33;&#39; Bollocks, homophobia may be endemic socially but its not automatic, and certainly not for supposed revolutionaries, or someone who is obviously politically conscious like IT. I mean, he can rap against racism but homophobia is something &#39;put there by society&#39; that he just cant help? Sounds like more apologist shit to me.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by sanjee+--> (sanjee)Immortal Technique, is a leftist and quite revolutionary too[/b]

Right, even though he rejects marxism, anarchism and communism.


Originally posted by [email protected]
He knows how to express his thoughts lyrically

Yeah, and they&#39;re pretty disturbing, in between homophobia and sexism there&#39;s that conspiracy nut bullshit, the guy has no clue whatsoever.


sanjee
Though I try not to pay that much of attention to his flow, but to focus on his lyrics only (which are very good).

Yeah his lyrics are pretty good, here&#39;s a quick sample:


You get no props in hip-hop like feminine men


But half of y&#39;all are faggots tryin to pick up a tranny


So if I catch you bluffing, faggot, you less than nothing


And your crew is full of more faggots than Greek mythology


you coffee shop revolutionary son of a *****
but you know what the fuck I think is just pathetic and gay
when niggaz speculate what the fuck &#39;Pac would say



why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug
and don&#39;t be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote
cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke


cuz you got jealousy in ya voice like star scream
and that&#39;s the primary reason that I hate ya faggots


Immortal Technique: insinuate degenerate fags

[Coggeh]

Dont bother me with your petty insults about being naive . If i&#39;m wrong about something ill admit to it , im open to correction on anything .So please don&#39;t insult me when im simply just trying to get my point across.


You don&#39;t realise that the term faggot is commonly used as slang do you ?
Often i&#39;ve heard it as an insult to people who are not gay and when i stop to ask them are they homophobic they say no , they have no problem with gays . But for some reason their confortable using the term to insult someone . Using the word faggot (in some cases) is not meant to be a slanderous assertion against gays it has become another word in a whole range of words for people to insult each other .


why wont you just admit it? I dont understand why you feel the need to play-down his prejudice.
This guy is a rap artist it is very common for terms like the above to be used in lyrics it has become the norm on the hiphop seen .


This thread is a perfect illustration of not only how mainstream and acceptable homophobia is in society, but also in the so-called &#39;revolutionary&#39; left.
I really doubt so many people would be willing to deflect criticism from an apolitical white rapper who talked about &#39;degenerate spics&#39; and threw out lines slagging off Black people as &#39;niggers&#39; etc. now, what do you think?

I don&#39;t accept it personnally but mainstream society also rejects any form of direct racism , stop trying to perfect the working class its a gradual change that will come about over time just like racism has been wiped out in mainstream society ,homophobia will soon follow. Don&#39;t discount people right away .

I find it so amusing how you of all people can attack the term "revolutionary left" you are talk about how power corrupts people and that the state is wrong yet you grasp the position of "mod" so you can have power over others who disagree with you.

[chitown_brotha]

immortal technique isen&#39;t a communist or marxist,he is an leftist,that makes social concious aswell as true hiphop.plus technique is an activist not just an mc,and i dont get it why yall make such a big deal that he uses words like faggot,gay,feminate men and such,its not like he aims that directly at the homosexuals..fuck outa here with this shit,thats just his way of gettin his point out,im sick of readin same ol about him doin that,i mean so what,....Enyway tech is a dope mc....

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by coggy+--> (coggy)Dont bother me with your petty insults about being naive . If i&#39;m wrong about something ill admit to it , im open to correction on anything .So please don&#39;t insult me when im simply just trying to get my point across.[/b]

I wasnt insulting you, i probably should have said &#39;ignorant&#39; not naive - if someone is young and does reactionary things unknowingly they are naive/ignorant - its a fact, not an insult.


Originally posted by coggy+--> (coggy)
You don&#39;t realise that the term faggot is commonly used as slang do you ? [/b]

&#39;Faggot&#39; is fairly common, but not as common as &#39;gay&#39; (in a pejorative sense).

That said, &#39;faggot&#39; is much more explicitly homophobic term - its got a longer and more painful history, &#39;that&#39;s gay&#39; is a very recent and less violent phenomenon by comparison.

&#39;Faggot&#39; is what someone says right before they boot you in the face; its the language of violent homophobes.


Originally posted by coggy
Often i&#39;ve heard it as an insult to people who are not gay and when i stop to ask them are they homophobic they say no , they have no problem with gays . But for some reason their confortable using the term to insult someone.

This is because they dont understand homophobia and the dynamics of social oppression, you cant separate homophobic language from homophobia - its not possible for a hetero person to on the one hand use explicitly homophobic terms in a derogatory fashion and then on the other claim not to be homophobic, or that they&#39;re not being or &#39;meant&#39; to be homophobic - it doesnt work like that.


Originally posted by coggy

Using the word faggot (in some cases) is not meant to be a slanderous assertion against gays it has become another word in a whole range of words for people to insult each other

This completely wrong.

Some people may use the term &#39;faggot&#39; in a context where the subject of the insult is obviously heterosexual, but that does not change make their statements any less homophobic, rather it is reinforcing homophobia itself; the idea that being being a &#39;faggot&#39; (i.e. LGBT) is something bad or personally offensive, the idea that its actually an insult to be associated with lesbians, gay men etc.

It is completely incorrect to argue that its possible for heteros to use homophobic language (such as &#39;faggot&#39;) as insult whilst not at the same time being homophobic.


Originally posted by coggy
This guy is a rap artist it is very common for terms like the above to be used in lyrics it has become the norm on the hiphop seen .


The &#39;norms&#39; of the hip-hop scene are irrelevant to whether or not IT and his lyrics are homophobic - he should be (and IS being) judged on his words - not on the words of others in the scene.

I find this excuse pretty funny considering that there is literally thousands of hiphop artists and groups (mainstream as well as indy) that NEVER use words like &#39;faggot&#39; in their lyrics, even a lot of the people who use &#39;gay&#39; pejoratively dont use &#39;faggot&#39; in their rapes. And in the alt hiphop scene, all the leftists etc. - IT&#39;s area - &#39;faggot&#39; is even more scarce.

But again you&#39;ve avoided the question.

Is IT a homophobe?


Originally posted by coggy
but mainstream society also rejects any form of direct racism

Since when? Racism is alive and kicking.


Originally posted by coggy

stop trying to perfect the working class

LOL

What fucking privilege you have&#33;

Yeah, shut the up queers, the working class will stop hating you eventually, just shut up until then :rolleyes:

How about, fuck off?

And WTF does the working class have to do with whether or not IT is a homophobe?


Originally posted by coggy

its a gradual change that will come about over time

No, its a change that will occur because of militant struggle by working class queers, like all social change its driven by the oppressed, not some passive thing that just falls out of the sky after a &#39;long time&#39;.


Originally posted by coggy

just like racism has been wiped out in mainstream society

No it hasnt.


Originally posted by coggy
Don&#39;t discount people right away

Perhaps you could show where in my last post i &#39;discounted&#39; the &#39;people&#39;?


Originally posted by coggy
I find it so amusing how you of all people can attack the term "revolutionary left"

Right, its &#39;amusing&#39; that i critique the explicit and latent homophobia of revolutionaries because im a mod on an internet messageboard :rolleyes:

Get a grip.


[email protected]

you are talk about how power corrupts people and that the state is wrong yet you grasp the position of "mod"

:lol: Because state power and being a mod on an internet forum are pretty much the same thing huh? :wacko:

P.S. i didnt &#39;grasp the position of mod&#39;, i was elected by the CC three times to the position of mod, and im accountable for my actions in the members forum and CC, recallable etc.


coggy

so you can have power over others who disagree with you.

What power is this exactly? :unsure:

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by chitown brotha+--> (chitown brotha)he is an leftist,that makes social concious aswell as true hiphop [/b]

How can he be making &#39;social conscious&#39; hiphop when his music is sexist and homophobic? That is the opposite of socially conscious, socially prejudiced&#33;&#33;&#33;


Originally posted by CB+--> (CB)
i dont get it why yall make such a big deal that he uses words like faggot,gay,feminate men and such[/b]

Because its sexist and homophobic? Revolutionaries tend to make a &#39;big deal&#39; out of social prejudice.

Racism, sexism, homophobia - these are all things that divide exploited and oppressed peoples, by perpetuating these prejudices IT and others are perpetuating the division of the working class and working against social revolution.


Originally posted by CB

,its not like he aims that directly at the homosexuals

Calling another person a faggot is aimed directly at queer people (i.e. it is homophobic) regardless of whether the person the insult is aimed is hetero or not.

Again i pose this hypothetical.

Would you be so forgiving to a white rapper who wasnt political and rapped about &#39;degenerate spics&#39; or &#39;degenrate niggers&#39;? Replace &#39;spic&#39; or &#39;nigger&#39; with &#39;faggot&#39; and you&#39;ve got Immortal Technique on the mic.


[email protected]

thats just his way of gettin his point out

And thats that? People should just get over it and shut up?

Its NOt &#39;just&#39; some way of &#39;gettin his point out&#39;, its a fucking homophobic and sexist way of getting his point out, and as a revolutionary you should have no time for social prejudice; obviously homophobia is not really a &#39;big deal&#39; for you, as it is clearly not for IT.


CB
m sick of readin same ol about him doin that,i mean so wha

Well get used to it; as long as IT is spouting homophobic and sexist shit people are gonna call him on it, and as long as &#39;revolutionaries&#39; come on this forum defending his homophobic lyrics those &#39;revolutionaries&#39; are gonna get an earful, and rightfully fuckin so&#33;

Honestly, that we&#39;re even having a discussion about whether or not shit like,

&#39;why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug
and don&#39;t be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote
cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke&#39;

... is homophobic is a joke.

m sick of readin same ol about him doin that,i mean so what,....Enyway tech is a dope mc....

[Coggeh]

Like i said open to correction :lol:



No, its a change that will occur because of militant struggle by working class queers, like all social change its driven by the oppressed, not some passive thing that just falls out of the sky after a &#39;long time&#39;.

Grudually it will occur , but through a struggle and no not a militant one.


Also Racism very rare in soceity as a direct concept . Their is still prejustices in society about gays but most people are united in anti-rascism .


Yeah, shut the up queers, the working class will stop hating you eventually, just shut up until then
Here we go again with your usual slanderous arguements of taking what i say out of context .... you really have a talent for that don&#39;t you&#33;

I go join a workers movement to gain rights for minorities/workers just so i can tell them to shut up and wait for capitalism to get better ... ya thats it alrite . You hit the nail on the head their rosey boy.


But again you&#39;ve avoided the question.

Is IT a homophobe?

I&#39;ll answer it for the second time then.No he is not he uses terms that are the norm and so feels comfortable using them . This doesn&#39;t make him a homophobe.If you went up and asked him about lets say same sex marrige do you think he would oppose it ? most likely wouldnt oppose it .



How about once you try adapt urself to society and not expect them to change lickidy split .Their simply not all we can do is show them the path i.e socialism ... or in ur case anarchism its down to the workers to follow it .

[chitown_brotha]

Originally posted by black rose+March 06, 2007 05:07 pm--> (black rose &#064; March 06, 2007 05:07 pm)
chitown brotha
he is an leftist,that makes social concious aswell as true hiphop

How can he be making &#39;social conscious&#39; hiphop when his music is sexist and homophobic? That is the opposite of socially conscious, socially prejudiced&#33;&#33;&#33;

[/b]
How can he be not?i mean thats not socially prejudice,just couse he uses those words?fuck outa here with this..i mean just couse you are against his usage of homophobic slang then it doesn&#39;t mean that he isen&#39;t a political aswell as social conscious mc...like i said he isen&#39;t aiming at any homosexual person personally or specifically trying to get at the gay community or he aint trying to hurt homosexual men feelings.From what i know these words are common use in the hood,and tech is from harlem so thats normal that he uses it,even tho he an educated man he maight be smarter then that,and try to use it as less as possible.but if you familiar with him,then you know he be grimy with it.

[Fawkes]

You get no props in hip-hop like feminine men
That&#39;s not homophobic, that&#39;s generally the truth.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Coggy
Also Racism very rare in soceity as a direct concept . Their is still prejustices in society about gays but most people are united in anti-rascism .
Try being Black for a week, and then decide whether you can say that.

Society is still based on racist institutions, and most people are still racist, trust me.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 08:06 am
Dont bother me with your petty insults about being naive . If i&#39;m wrong about something ill admit to it , im open to correction on anything .So please don&#39;t insult me when im simply just trying to get my point across.


You don&#39;t realise that the term faggot is commonly used as slang do you ?
Often i&#39;ve heard it as an insult to people who are not gay and when i stop to ask them are they homophobic they say no , they have no problem with gays . But for some reason their confortable using the term to insult someone . Using the word faggot (in some cases) is not meant to be a slanderous assertion against gays it has become another word in a whole range of words for people to insult each other .


why wont you just admit it? I dont understand why you feel the need to play-down his prejudice.
This guy is a rap artist it is very common for terms like the above to be used in lyrics it has become the norm on the hiphop seen .


This thread is a perfect illustration of not only how mainstream and acceptable homophobia is in society, but also in the so-called &#39;revolutionary&#39; left.
I really doubt so many people would be willing to deflect criticism from an apolitical white rapper who talked about &#39;degenerate spics&#39; and threw out lines slagging off Black people as &#39;niggers&#39; etc. now, what do you think?

I don&#39;t accept it personnally but mainstream society also rejects any form of direct racism , stop trying to perfect the working class its a gradual change that will come about over time just like racism has been wiped out in mainstream society ,homophobia will soon follow. Don&#39;t discount people right away .

I find it so amusing how you of all people can attack the term "revolutionary left" you are talk about how power corrupts people and that the state is wrong yet you grasp the position of "mod" so you can have power over others who disagree with you.
Do you realize that in racist circles the term "nigger" is used as slang. It would be like saying "You are a dick" but instead of dick you would say nigger. Now since that is slang is it ok to use it as such? Fuck no. It really doesn&#39;t matter what they mean by using the term gay. Using it furthers the sexist agenda. If someone is battling for leftist ideas, manly equality, than being sexist or dividing people into groups of unequalness is directly contradictory to your stance as a "leftist".

It might be common to use that kind of sexist language in rap but IT is supposedly not just another rapper. He is supposedly a "left leaning guerrilla". In that respect you can&#39;t really justify him acting like mainstream rappers that talk about ice and rims.

It&#39;s not about perfecting the working class. It is about leftist who are fake as shit. You can&#39;t be a leftist and racist or sexist. It doesn&#39;t work that way. It has nothing to do with the working class, it has to do with politics. I really don&#39;t understand why you people are defending his sexist language. The fact is that he uses the language. Whatever he means by using the language is irrelevant. He uses it..... often. Context makes no difference what so ever and I don&#39;t understand why you "radicals" support this. It is disgusting.

[Coggeh]

Try being Black for a week, and then decide whether you can say that.

Society is still based on racist institutions, and most people are still racist, trust me.

Those institutions are not racist their simply an act of the capitalist society . capitalism knows know colour but green. You can&#39;t blame the workers for racism (which seems a popular belief suddenly) its a product of capitalist mentality to blame ones misfortunes on immigrants or minorities.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by Mujer Libre+March 06, 2007 02:17 pm--> (Mujer Libre @ March 06, 2007 02:17 pm)
Coggy
Also Racism very rare in soceity as a direct concept . Their is still prejustices in society about gays but most people are united in anti-rascism .
Try being Black for a week, and then decide whether you can say that.

Society is still based on racist institutions, and most people are still racist, trust me. [/b]
Racism is gone now? Yipee... someone tell the Mexican immigrants that the minutemen have stopped persecuting them. Someone let kids in Compton know that they aren&#39;t going to be harassed by cops anymore. Racism has disappeared.......... :unsure:

[Coggeh]

Originally posted by Chicano [email protected] 06, 2007 10:29 pm
Do you realize that in racist circles the term "nigger" is used as slang. It would be like saying "You are a dick" but instead of dick you would say nigger. Now since that is slang is it ok to use it as such? Fuck no. It really doesn&#39;t matter what they mean by using the term gay. Using it furthers the sexist agenda. If someone is battling for leftist ideas, manly equality, than being sexist or dividing people into groups of unequalness is directly contradictory to your stance as a "leftist".

It might be common to use that kind of sexist language in rap but IT is supposedly not just another rapper. He is supposedly a "left leaning guerrilla". In that respect you can&#39;t really justify him acting like mainstream rappers that talk about ice and rims.

It&#39;s not about perfecting the working class. It is about leftist who are fake as shit. You can&#39;t be a leftist and racist or sexist. It doesn&#39;t work that way. It has nothing to do with the working class, it has to do with politics. I really don&#39;t understand why you people are defending his sexist language. The fact is that he uses the language. Whatever he means by using the language is irrelevant. He uses it..... often. Context makes no difference what so ever and I don&#39;t understand why you "radicals" support this. It is disgusting.
The term "nigger" is also used by alot of the black community as a simple jesture of brotherhood between two black people .

Personally i don&#39;t listen to IT not because i think he&#39;s bourgeois (as he probably may be) but i just don&#39;t like new rap musically wise.

Your blaming the wrong people for this once again , the term gay , faggot and nigger have all been desensitized by the capitalist society . IT is just another product of the mentality i spoke about (which is rare seeing as he&#39;s a minority)

"radical" ;) surly a leftist who "supports" this termonology would be considered not radical enough . I see these lyrics as hypocritical as you do and just as disgusting but one must for grasp the reason why he&#39;s saying these things to judge him in the first place .

[Coggeh]

Originally posted by Chicano Shamrock+March 06, 2007 10:38 pm--> (Chicano Shamrock @ March 06, 2007 10:38 pm)
Originally posted by Mujer [email protected] 06, 2007 02:17 pm

Coggy
Also Racism very rare in soceity as a direct concept . Their is still prejustices in society about gays but most people are united in anti-rascism .
Try being Black for a week, and then decide whether you can say that.

Society is still based on racist institutions, and most people are still racist, trust me.
Racism is gone now? Yipee... someone tell the Mexican immigrants that the minutemen have stopped persecuting them. Someone let kids in Compton know that they aren&#39;t going to be harassed by cops anymore. Racism has disappeared.......... :unsure: [/b]
here we go again BLAMING working class for the faults of a corrupt society. Cops/pigs/police whatever you want to call them are .. wait for it .... working class.Their abuse and racism is a product of capitalism .. is that such a hard think to grasp ?

[Mujer Libre]

It&#39;s not blaming the working class- it&#39;s trying to get people to change their attitudes. The working class isn&#39;t perfect, nor are they slavishly driven to think whatever the ruling class tells them (i.e. "you must be racist," "yes boss").

And no, racism, sexism and homophobia are not merely products of capitalism- they won&#39;t just disappear after the revolution. Face it, they&#39;re comfortable attitudes for people in socially dominant groups to have. We (I&#39;m talking the oppressed here- autonomous struggle) have to fight these atitudes whereve we find them, but particularly within our OWN movements, or else the "revolution" will just perpetuate these attitudes and replicate old hierarchies.

Racist institutions go far beyond capitalism, and existed before industrial capitalism. I&#39;m not saying that class struggle isn&#39;t important in fighting these forms of discrimination, just that it isn&#39;t the be all and end all in abolishing them. Rather, all these struggles have to be linked if we want to establish a really just society.

[Pirate Utopian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 09:19 pm
Immortal Technique is a bit of an idiot, no doubt about it. I know leftish hip hop fans get all excited when rappers mention &#39;the system&#39; in their songs, but Immortal Technique is actually a very mediocre rapper, with very limited skills. He has a couple of good songs though, like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrBRJVGLRPo).
meh, he isnt mediocore even a-political hiphoppers like him as an MC.
and he is defintly a skilled MC, only he is a homophobe and conspirator

[abrupt]

No, it&#39;s not &#39;just words&#39;, and if he plays into to macho-chauvinism and homophobia of hiphops mainstream than he&#39;s a moron, not a revolutionary, and a bigoted moron at that.

If a white rapper wrote a song with the lines, &#39;insinuate degenerate spics&#39; or &#39;So if I catch you bluffing, spics, you less than nothing&#39;

Its not anti-latino, it&#39;s &#39;just words&#39;? Fucking please

This is not &#39;just words&#39;, its blatant homophobia and you&#39;re acting like it doesnt matter,

you took that out of context. i said "those are just words he uses as a insult" it seems like u read "those are just words" and stopped reading and created your own version of what i wrote.

and that white rapper sayin spic is not the same thing, here we are talking about homophopes, not racisim, there is still a difference.

tech needs to change his words, but i dont think hes fully aware of the EFFECT (NOTICE I SAY EFFECT, NOT THAT HES NOT AWARE HES SAYIN IT)





QUOTE
"You get no props in hip-hop like feminine men"

thats not anit-gay. thats saying the truth, because they do not get much respect.


QUOTE
"But half of y&#39;all are faggots tryin to pick up a tranny"

that is a homophobic statement. ill give you that.


QUOTE
"So if I catch you bluffing, faggot, you less than nothing"

that was just directed as a insult, probly not even thinkin of it.


QUOTE
"And your crew is full of more faggots than Greek mythology"

pretty homophobic.


QUOTE
"you coffee shop revolutionary son of a *****
but you know what the fuck I think is just pathetic and gay
when niggaz speculate what the fuck &#39;Pac would say "

he probly just used "gay" to make if rhyme. wouldnt be to concerned


QUOTE

"why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug
and don&#39;t be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote
cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke"

hardcore "homo thugs" you got to admit you dont see much of.
so it is seen as a oxymoron.




QUOTE
"cuz you got jealousy in ya voice like star scream
and that&#39;s the primary reason that I hate ya faggots"

used as a insult, not callin out real gay people




QUOTE
"Immortal Technique: insinuate degenerate fags"

used as a insult, not callin out real gay people




conclusion: he is from harlem. he does say some homophobic lines (not many) but regardless he says it. but when he does he probly doesnt think of the effect. to him its said without thinkin like calling someone a bastard. i think since its very few lines he should just stop sayin it, i dont think hed say no. he might not even realize hes said it in his raps.

i think i can almost assume you dont know what harlems like. or what people like him have seen/been thru.



now we got out the bad things. lets goto the good, becuase i like talking about both sides of things, and i think its fair to do this now.


he has converted gansters into revolutionaries, he provides the basics and also in deph sometimes of the knowladge of corrruption in todays society. from war in guatemala, el salvador, nicaragua, cuba, iraq, afganistan, ect to political decisions, to touching base on revolutionary acts, ect

also some tracks exp: you never know. are just.. crazy, and if u felt nothing after that one you are pretty heartless.

do you like any of his songs? this is where you being honest can help.

[Pirate Utopian]

Big L was from Harlem, he didnt say faggot in every song

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 07, 2007 07:49 pm
Big L was from Harlem, he didnt say faggot in every song
True, though he did say some other shit that is downright disgusting
The point that Black Rose is trying to make is that this so-called "revolutionary" is more homophobic than you&#39;re average MC
He raps about representing minorities, but his music attacks those who are not hetero
If he were this socially conscious MC he&#39;d avoid all language that attacked a certain sector of society
But he doesn&#39;t, this lil "socialist guerilla" image is just a front to distinguish himself
I don&#39;t listen to tha guy...used to but its shameful for him to call himself a "socialist guerilla" without defending all oppressed people, or even engaging in real guerilla warfare :lol:

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by Coggy+March 06, 2007 02:47 pm--> (Coggy @ March 06, 2007 02:47 pm)
Originally posted by Chicano Shamrock+March 06, 2007 10:38 pm--> (Chicano Shamrock &#064; March 06, 2007 10:38 pm)
Mujer [email protected] 06, 2007 02:17 pm

Coggy
Also Racism very rare in soceity as a direct concept . Their is still prejustices in society about gays but most people are united in anti-rascism .
Try being Black for a week, and then decide whether you can say that.

Society is still based on racist institutions, and most people are still racist, trust me.
Racism is gone now? Yipee... someone tell the Mexican immigrants that the minutemen have stopped persecuting them. Someone let kids in Compton know that they aren&#39;t going to be harassed by cops anymore. Racism has disappeared.......... :unsure: [/b]
here we go again BLAMING working class for the faults of a corrupt society. Cops/pigs/police whatever you want to call them are .. wait for it .... working class.Their abuse and racism is a product of capitalism .. is that such a hard think to grasp ? [/b]
Are you that fucking close minded? You can&#39;t protect racist basterds just because they are part of a working class. So are a majority of fucking Ku Klux Klan whites, but since they are the working class we are suddenly suppose to say its not their faults? Suddenly its ok to be a racist working classman because I live in a capitalist society? Whether or not its the choice of the worker to live in capitalism, it does not excuse them from being an ignorant, disrespecting, racist fucking pig&#33;&#33; Cuba is somewhat communistic, and yet they had camps dedicated to hold gays and HIV infected people. Discrimination is not a product of Capitalism. I live in a capitalist society. I&#39;m part of the working class and guess what, i&#39;m not racist&#33;


Also Racism very rare in soceity as a direct concept . Their is still prejustices in society about gays but most people are united in anti-rascism

I can&#39;t wait till some Anti- whateveryouare sticks a nightstick up your ass. Then I hope you realize what you are saying. You sound like some rich 13 year old kid in the suburbs.

[Coggeh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 05:17 am
Are you that fucking close minded? You can&#39;t protect racist basterds just because they are part of a working class. So are a majority of fucking Ku Klux Klan whites, but since they are the working class we are suddenly suppose to say its not their faults? Suddenly its ok to be a racist working classman because I live in a capitalist society? Whether or not its the choice of the worker to live in capitalism, it does not excuse them from being an ignorant, disrespecting, racist fucking pig&#33;&#33; Cuba is somewhat communistic, and yet they had camps dedicated to hold gays and HIV infected people. Discrimination is not a product of Capitalism. I live in a capitalist society. I&#39;m part of the working class and guess what, i&#39;m not racist&#33;


Also Racism very rare in soceity as a direct concept . Their is still prejustices in society about gays but most people are united in anti-rascism

I can&#39;t wait till some Anti- whateveryouare sticks a nightstick up your ass. Then I hope you realize what you are saying. You sound like some rich 13 year old kid in the suburbs.
How am I the close minded one here ? I&#39;m not talking about the KKK or those Stormfront pussies, just look at Fox the most right wing national newstation in America, this show has even crititsised the police for brutality against black people in recent months. Thats what im talking about when i go on about how mainstream racism is slowly withering away , although the gay rights is still an issue aswell as the use of langueage descriminating against gays.Descrimination is a product of capitalism&#33; is produces inequality and therfore alot of people see imigrants as a threat t their job when they come into the country . In socialism that wouldn&#39;t be an issue. In terms of Cuba , I personnally have harsh crititsisms of their system and the fact that they do that is another way of disputing the fact that Cuba is a proper Socialist State .


And you sound like a bloody liberal , who also has to read Das kapital and the manifesto to get what im talking about , if you have read it you will see what im talking about .

[Pirate Utopian]

Originally posted by Tekun+March 08, 2007 04:22 am--> (Tekun @ March 08, 2007 04:22 am)
Big [email protected] 07, 2007 07:49 pm
Big L was from Harlem, he didnt say faggot in every song
True, though he did say some other shit that is downright disgusting [/b]
Dangerzone :ph34r:

[abrupt]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 07, 2007 07:49 pm
Big L was from Harlem, he didnt say faggot in every song
i gaurentee in one of his tracks, he had somthing that could be interpreted as homophobic.

and tech doesnt have it in all his raps.

[Pirate Utopian]

almsot all of his raps atleast, big l didnt use a detailed descripition of these "faggots" like immortal technique lines like about picking up trannies and greek mythology make it clear he isnt just using it as a curseword he is refering to actual homosexuals

[abrupt]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 08, 2007 05:06 pm
almsot all of his raps atleast, big l didnt use a detailed descripition of these "faggots" like immortal technique lines like about picking up trannies and greek mythology make it clear he isnt just using it as a curseword he is refering to actual homosexuals
and if u goto the first post of this page i acknowladge those lines as being homophobic.

i agree he needs to change his lines, but he still is a good artist, you have to see where hes from and his background to understand why he says it.

[Political_Chucky]

How am I the close minded one here ? I&#39;m not talking about the KKK or those Stormfront pussies, just look at Fox the most right wing national newstation in America, this show has even crititsised the police for brutality against black people in recent months. Thats what im talking about when i go on about how mainstream racism is slowly withering away , although the gay rights is still an issue aswell as the use of langueage descriminating against gays.

Ok for one, you are talking about the same Right-wing media that basically advocates the building of the wall between Mexico and the U.S. Anyways, the Media criticizes the police brutality because there is no way around. Recently, there have been more and more cases on T.V. involving video tape, so there really is no way to argue against Blacks or Mexicans or whatever it is. But you must also realize that the media is also just one part of it. The media is what puts the blanket over our heads and tells us everything is alright, so go to sleep. That is what it is there for. It may seem as if things are going our way, but with a country pretty much full of minorities(Which really makes us the majority) no one wants to hear about another Mexican kid shot dead because he was Mexican. What the media is doing is trying to show you that everything is “getting better.” Watching CNN or Fox or whatever bullshit station you watch doesn&#39;t instantly make you some kind of discrimination expert and in no way am I saying I am. But I encounter racial discrimination almost on a monthly basis from cops thinking I was some kind of dealer or "Cholo" because I use to have my head shaved. And if you really want to see police brutality, you should come down to Riverside, Ca (Which really is not even the worst part to encounter it in so-cal, there are far more worse places). And also, what exactly is "mainstream racism?

And besides, this beyond the point because you are arguing that capitalism is making officers cause this brutality. Did Capitalism make the officer put the badge on? Did Capitalism tell the officer to beat the Mexican with his nightstick? Most cops become cops to do exactly what they are doing. Whether that is to actually uphold the law(which is bullshit any ways) or to abuse his powers. Becoming a cop doesn&#39;t change your values.


And you sound like a bloody liberal , who also has to read Das kapital and the manifesto to get what im talking about , if you have read it you will see what im talking about .

I know exactly what you are talking about and it in no way explains that the media is what tells us whether or not "discrimination is a product of capitalism," the same Capitalist society that has its "discrimination whithering away..." which makes no sense. I am all for the downfall of Capitalism, but facts are facts. I suggest you wander into the Discrimination forum and look for yourself.

[Coggeh]

Not a hope , thats black rose territory :lol:

The point I was making is that if you&#39;d have read them books Marx&#39;s terminology makes some people thing even he was a racist Im just saying that even the most knowlegable of philosophers had usedterms which would have made him racist by todays standards . We have cme a long way since then (taking into account it was over a 100 years ago but whatever) <_<

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 08:24 pm
Not a hope , thats black rose territory :lol:

The point I was making is that if you&#39;d have read them books Marx&#39;s terminology makes some people thing even he was a racist Im just saying that even the most knowlegable of philosophers had usedterms which would have made him racist by todays standards . We have cme a long way since then (taking into account it was over a 100 years ago but whatever) <_<
That arguments holds some water for Marx, but for IT? You&#39;ve got be kidding. IT lives in 2007, decades after the rise of the new left, the gay liberation movement and the general rise in consciousness in the left (and society generally) around homophohia.

[Pirate Utopian]

Originally posted by abrupt+March 08, 2007 07:09 pm--> (abrupt @ March 08, 2007 07:09 pm)
Big [email protected] 08, 2007 05:06 pm
almsot all of his raps atleast, big l didnt use a detailed descripition of these "faggots" like immortal technique lines like about picking up trannies and greek mythology make it clear he isnt just using it as a curseword he is refering to actual homosexuals
and if u goto the first post of this page i acknowladge those lines as being homophobic.

i agree he needs to change his lines, but he still is a good artist, you have to see where hes from and his background to understand why he says it. [/b]
i never said he wasnt a good artist, but im saying that Big L was from the same neighborhood didnt mention "faggots" in each of his songs and Big L wasnt even a political MC.

Immortal Technique is and uses it on the regular, you&#39;d think someone with a big intrest in politics would refrain from sush words before a-political rappers do.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Big Manifesto+March 09, 2007 12:08 pm--> (Big Manifesto @ March 09, 2007 12:08 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 07:09 pm

Big [email protected] 08, 2007 05:06 pm
almsot all of his raps atleast, big l didnt use a detailed descripition of these "faggots" like immortal technique lines like about picking up trannies and greek mythology make it clear he isnt just using it as a curseword he is refering to actual homosexuals
and if u goto the first post of this page i acknowladge those lines as being homophobic.

i agree he needs to change his lines, but he still is a good artist, you have to see where hes from and his background to understand why he says it.
i never said he wasnt a good artist, but im saying that Big L was from the same neighborhood didnt mention "faggots" in each of his songs and Big L wasnt even a political MC.

Immortal Technique is and uses it on the regular, you&#39;d think someone with a big intrest in politics would refrain from sush words before a-political rappers do. [/b]
True, true.....


And like someone mentioned earlier, he&#39;s not a real great MC
He&#39;s average to above average
His delivery is weak, and he molds his vocab to fit this personna he&#39;s created, its not as if he&#39;s just spitting, he&#39;s picks and chooses the words rather than straight flowing

[Justin_G]

Originally posted by Chicano Shamrock+March 05, 2007 07:56 am--> (Chicano Shamrock &#064; March 05, 2007 07:56 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 12:22 pm

[email protected] 03, 2007 05:06 pm
Yeah, this has been discussed so many times. Anyway, he&#39;s pretty good though if you listen to him for to long it gets kind of boring because he never changes his tempo, flow, or beats from song to song. Also, in regards to Tekun, he has never claimed that he is a communist or anarchist, but he has, if I recall correctly, claimed to be a socialist.
Any links?

IT&#39;s also been known for his arrogance at events or gatherings (e.g. last year&#39;s Hotel labor strike in LA)
What happened at the labor strike?

I like Immortal Technique most of the time but I don&#39;t like the songs where he uses sexist language. Referring to woman as *****es and gays as faggots is not what comrades should be doing. I have seen immortal technique call himself a communist in speeches on the internet. He has a song called "The Poverty of Philosophy" i think that is an ode to him being a communist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Vl0peys90 [/b]
True true, the song itself describes his political views. Why make a song about communist ideals and not believe it himself? Seems idiotic.


And and here is that interview you guys where looking for : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgmrZJhoBA...related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgmrZJhoBA&mode=related&search=)

[Pirate Utopian]

he doesnt say he is a communist on that song, he doesnt even use any words that even refer to communism&#33;

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Justin_G
Why make a song about communist ideals and not believe it himself? Seems idiotic.

Because he is a hypocrite, that should be abundantly clear from listening to his songs.

[Inti]

Well I really like Immortal Technique and his music, but I would really also like to know if you all that are hacking and slashing on him can come up with other groups that have good lyrics and arent homophobic. Also I think that this picking on his lyrics are kind of ridiculous, but thats just my 5 cents.

[Pirate Utopian]

non homophobic MC&#39;s?
Talib Kweli, 2 Black 2 Strong and Ohmega Watts just to name some

but your right we shouldnt rip on lyrics if their only full of homophobia, and you know what, what makes Prussian Blue and Skrewdriver so bad we shouldnt rip on their lyrics.

those are my cents

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 11:11 am
Well I really like Immortal Technique and his music, but I would really also like to know if you all that are hacking and slashing on him can come up with other groups that have good lyrics and arent homophobic. Also I think that this picking on his lyrics are kind of ridiculous, but thats just my 5 cents.
Are you joking? Picking on his homophobic lyrics is ridiculous? How old are you?

Check out some Saul Williams, Talib Kweli, KRS ONE and others.

[Inti]

Originally posted by Chicano Shamrock+March 23, 2007 04:26 am--> (Chicano Shamrock @ March 23, 2007 04:26 am)
[email protected] 22, 2007 11:11 am
Well I really like Immortal Technique and his music, but I would really also like to know if you all that are hacking and slashing on him can come up with other groups that have good lyrics and arent homophobic. Also I think that this picking on his lyrics are kind of ridiculous, but thats just my 5 cents.
Are you joking? Picking on his homophobic lyrics is ridiculous? How old are you?

Check out some Saul Williams, Talib Kweli, KRS ONE and others. [/b]
Im probably quite a bit older than you, and I do have better things to do than going through the roof for some words in some lyrics when there are more important things to get fired up on. I havent listened to Saul Williams yet, but I have listened to Talib Kweli, some good there, Krs One, so so.... Can you come up with some other names please? Btw are you saying that there are never a bad word coming up in any of Talib Kwelis or KRS Ones lyrics? That would be a first.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Inti+--> (Inti)Im probably quite a bit older than you, and I do have better things to do than going through the roof for some words in some lyrics when there are more important things to get fired up on.[/b]

Why is your age a factor in whether or not you care about casualised homophobia? What are these &#39;important&#39; things that make caring about certain social prejudices of only peripheral interest?


Inti
Can you come up with some other names please

The Herd
The Coup
Mos Def (as well as Blackstar with Kweli)
Mr. Lif
Dead Prez
Aesop Rock
Sun Rise Above
The Roots
Black Thought
Busdriver
Deltron
Handsome Boy Modeling School
Hasan Salaam
K-Salaam
M.I.A.
Outkast
Roots Manuva
Che Fu
The Perceptionists
Urthboy
Tumi & the volume

etc.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 22, 2007 07:32 pm
non homophobic MC&#39;s?
Talib Kweli, 2 Black 2 Strong and Ohmega Watts just to name some

but your right we shouldnt rip on lyrics if their only full of homophobia, and you know what, what makes Prussian Blue and Skrewdriver so bad we shouldnt rip on their lyrics.

those are my cents
You are very cents-ible. :mellow:

Also, apparently age, or &#39;maturity&#39;, has something to do with being able to let go of your principles, copping out and ignoring discrmination. That&#39;s what I&#39;ve learned in this past week.

[EwokUtopia]

Some of his songs piss me off. You can pretty well divide his songs into the political ones which are good, and the egotistical masturbatory songs which are crap.

Fourth Branch remains one of my favourite Hip Hop songs though.

He does overuse "nigga" way too much. This is a problem of a lot of hip hop though.

[Pirate Utopian]

his political songs are mostly paranoid 9/11-conspiracy bullshit