Why does prostitution exist?

[Supermodel]

Is prostitution one of the "approved social functions" of a communist society?

How should prostitutes be paid under communism?

Should prostitution be a crime?
Should solicitation be a crime?
Or both or neither?

[marxistdisciple]

I'm not sure if it is "an approved social function." but it seems to me that prostitution couldnt actually exist under communism. I mean, if you didnt get piad for it it, it would just be "sex" I guess. I think most prostitutes probably do it for the money anyway, so having no currency would seemingly abolish prositution by the very nature of the society. However, maybe if we thought about some of the more "surreptitious" forms of prostitution, the same rules wouldn't apply. What I mean by that, is sleeping with someone/marrying someone for economic freedom. That isn't really prostitution semantically, but it seems to be just as morally ambiguous. Saying that, I'm no expert :)

[Nateddi]

Oppression causes prostitution. Women don't sell themselves just because its fun or because they want to make a few more bucks.

[marxistdisciple]

Ah, don't get me wrong....I didn't mean to say that prostitution is necessarily a choice. I think that under opression people are driven to make money in different ways, just to survive. As money is the only thing that helps you survive under capitalism, prostitution is a good way (business wise at least) to make enough money to live. I don't believe prostitutes do it out of choice at all, I can't see why anyone would personally...maybe some do, I don't know....but I cant understand that myself. In any case, there would be no need for prostitution under communism, because everyone would have the right to their food and shelter, regardless of their circumstances. It is the system that creates the problems, but that doesn't mean I am condoning the abundance of men going to prostitutes either.... (I am having trouble with this one, maybe I should be quiet :)

[honest intellectual]

In a utopian communist society, there would be no need for women (or men!) to become prostitutes. They would never be forced into it like they are under capitalism. But occasionaly, sopmeone may want to be a prostitute (very rarely, but it does happen). Prostitution should be legal so people can be do it if they want to, but under socialism they would never be obliged to

[Valkyrie]

One of the first things Castro did was clean up prostitution and casinos simultaneously. It's interesting to note that since the dollar has filtered back through Cuba, prostitution has come with it, and pretty wide spread in the tourist sections.

[peaccenicked]

Marx pointed out that the bourgeios monogamy was legalised prostitution.
Prostitution is degrading for both parties.
Marx who is influenced very much by romanticism and critiques of it, is really quite romantic before he became a philosopher, he wrote love poetry for his wife Jenny.
Communism which is about human dignity will abolish money and improve culture so much that prostitution will be seen as ancient misery.

[Maaja]

Prostitution can also be today's world's slave-trade. Young girls from e.g. ex Soviet countries go to Western countries, they think that they have got some work as waitresses or dancers. Sometimes even their boyfriends tell them to go because they are trading themselves. When they arrive then their passports are taken away, they have to serve every day 5-10 men and they have ni possibilities for escaping. Often pimps film their sexual acts and warn that they'll send tapes to their homes of girls want to ask help from their parents, that may work too. I know that in Estonia it's a serious problem, among Estonian and Russian girls. Every 500th girl from Estonia is suffering in those conditions.

[Natalenko]

I am quite familiar with this problem, being russian myself, but then greediness is human nature and if under communist society, prostitution is the only way to get extra money, then its the persons choice and should not be illegal by any means. All sex with consent of both sides should be legal. The money is like paying for the difference (sort of like a handicap) so that ugly men and women can have sex with pretty men and women.
Even though men paying other men for gay sex is more common that women paying for sex. So men are the main paying ones.

[oki]

prostitutes could work in brodels and have a union,just like any other occupation.
It's foolish to think you could get rid of it,they don't call it the oldes occupation in the world for nothing.so legalise,and share.

[Menshevik]

Prostitution is rampant in Cuba, Paris. Its more of a problem now than it ever was.

I do think prostitution should be abolished, in my eyes its no better than rape. All it does is promote the exploitation of women starting at as young an age as 11. No one really becomes a pros. voluntarily, its one of the many cancerous corruptions left over by capitalism.

[thebigcom]

Prostitution should not be illegal, there is no vitcim. we should legalize it then tax the shit out of it. prostitutes wouldnt be legal probably under a communists system

[Menshevik]

thebigcom, thats an entirely capi way of looking at it.

[oki]

no it's not I live in Holland and it's legalised here.all party's agree exept the christians..
if you legalize it you can control it tax it make the women's lives better,stop forced prostitution,and other criminal activitys surrounding it.believe it or not,but some women actually choose to do this job.have to say that they mostly do it for the money,though.

[Mazdak]

Yes but then whatabout widespread problems like aids that go hand in hand wiht prostitution?

[Menshevik]

oki, how is trying to make even more money off of prostitution, not capitalist?

[oki]

mazdak:use condoms!! ;)

menshevik:you're right that's very capitalistic.in a sosialist system this would stop,the prostitutes would make a normal kind of money.maybe after some time prostitution would disappear,cause no women want to do the job anymore.maybe not,my point is,that you should let this free.to outlaw it is no solution.me will still want to go to prostitutes,as things are now.so you'd get a black prostitution market,and that'd be kapitalistic for sure.allso,if men cant go anymore,they might just get all frustrated and start raping a lot.prostitution definetly has a function in sosiety,and so does porn.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 6:09 pm on June 6, 2002
I'm not sure if it is "an approved social function." but it seems to me that prostitution couldnt actually exist under communism. I mean, if you didnt get piad for it it, it would just be "sex" I guess. I think most prostitutes probably do it for the money anyway, so having no currency would seemingly abolish prositution by the very nature of the society. However, maybe if we thought about some of the more "surreptitious" forms of prostitution, the same rules wouldn't apply. What I mean by that, is sleeping with someone/marrying someone for economic freedom. That isn't really prostitution semantically, but it seems to be just as morally ambiguous. Saying that, I'm no expert :)
Since people in a communist society perform their jobs for the good of society, I suppose a commie whore would fuck people for free because she'd know that it would make her nation a better, happier place.

Lindsay

[Mazdak]

I know about condoms i am not stupid, but not everyone is going to use them and all Aids needs is one victim. And our beloved Church is opposed to condoms (and abortion)

[Rob]

I feel that prostitution should be legalized because if it were legal, the women forced into such a hideous job could organize and protect themselves from pimps' brutality.

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from Menshevik on 2:08 pm on June 16, 2002
oki, how is trying to make even more money off of prostitution, not capitalist?


You are mistaken comrade. Pimping is capitalist, whoreing isn't. a prostitute is making money from her own ...er... skills.

#1 reason to legalize prostitution is to regulate it.

[Menshevik]

RC, oki was talking about taxing prostitution, no one mentioned pimps. I said that prostitution is basically capitalistic (in response to thebigcom's, "tax the shit out of it" philosophy), she said, "no, it's not." Now aside from pimps and whores, by taxing prostitution, even though the state is collecting money, you take an entirely capitalistic approach to prostitution.

[oki]

mazdak,I don't think you're stupit.I made a joke ,sorry for that.aids is a huge problem.but prostitution is not causing it.sex is in general,and we cant do without that.so,in the end people must use condoms,have hospital checks when they want to do without in a relationship,and most important,finally medicin should be made availeble for ALL HUMANS,not just the ritch.
menshevic,you could turn that around.clients pay the gouv for prostitutions,the gouv pays the prostitute.then you'd have a commie approach.

[Menshevik]

Maybe oki; that's what they did in ancient Greece, all brothels were unionized and run by the state.

I still think that prostitution is seriously immoral and should be abolished on those grounds alone. There is no evidence that lack of prostitutes leads to sex crimes, in fact the opposite often occurs. Rape is not a crime based on lust, it's based on anger or frustration. Rapists don't rape women because they want sex, but because of some sub-concious hatred or anger they have for all women. Prostitution encourages the exploitation of women and it breeds unhealthy attitudes towards women in general. Too much sex (in society at least e.g. pornography, prostitution), is not good, and most men can develop a sick fascination with sexual domination particularly over women because of this social oversexing. The way men, especially, are encouraged to practice sexual looseness from a very young age leads to a new generation of rapists and domestic abusers. That's why prostitution is so very wrong.

[Menshevik]

BTW, has anyone here seen the documentary, American Pimp?

[Mazdak]

I know you didnt say that in a scolding manner, just wanted it known that all i meant was that not everyone uses protection. But it isnt exactly an institution worth having is it?

[oki]

you mean prostitution?well,I personally think that women are abused /abuse themself in prostitution,and I cant understand men that go to them,It's so cold and has nothing to do with intimicy or love,and can never be satisfieing.lots of prostitution has to do with drug addiction and that's even more sad.but my point stands,if you outlaw it it will go underground,and never ever disappear.
menshevik,I think you're right about rape.but why DO men go to prostitutes?to get stuff they cant get in their relation,or to get some because they are alone,or cant get laid,whatever,what would these people do if prostitutions werent there for them?allso here in holland,for example,disabled people have passes for (legal) prostitution.now there's a sosial function....

[Menshevik]

so basically you're saying, it's ok to take advantage of women as long as you can't get laid otherwise?

[oki]

no I'm saying that this is what happens and will still happen when you forbid it.how did forbidding prostitution ever stop it from beeing there?

[Mazdak]

I must agree with Menshevik here, except a brutal crackdown is more of what i had in mind.......

[oki]

should values be dictated or should people be able to create their own?I think that is the arguement here.I say:isf you dictate,you will need repression.if you let people individually decide values,you will have shit like prostitution.what is more important?freedom or humanity?

[Giovanni]

Well, the question can not be answered, because under communism the question would make no sense. Marxism itself, now, cant even predict what forms of social relations will take from exactly, only that it will be without oppression, exploitation or other coercive social and even material contraints. A free community of people. Will it be free love? Maybe. But, all the existing social relations we have today are strongly stamped with the inescablable brand of an opppressive, propery based society. This is as true for prostiution as it is for the institution of marriage, both of which will be done away with when the material conditions that keep it going are done away with. Not overnight, and not by passing some law, but as with the withering away of the State, and of classes, so to all concommitant social relations based on it. So, to explore for an answer to this requires some pretty futuristic and creative immaginations. Maybe there will be various modes of intimacy among humanity in such a world-society? Its known as the "love question" in Marxism. Interesting, t hough.